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Champions Trophy - England and Wales 2013

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Post by GSC Wed 19 Jun 2013, 1:36 pm

First topic message reminder :

Jimmy ends up with 2 wickets for his troubles and Broad leads England with 3.

Its a funny game.
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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 Thu 20 Jun 2013, 1:01 pm

Its rare moment watching dhoni bowling.
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Post by Mike Selig Thu 20 Jun 2013, 1:06 pm

I quite like this about Dhoni... willing to try something a bit different. A couple of overs probably enough. I guess he's reticent to use his spinners because it's wet, but Jadeja could be dangerous getting it to skid on a bit.

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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 Thu 20 Jun 2013, 1:12 pm

Ya Mike that's true. I hope so but SL batsmen are also good player of spin. One better thing is Indian fielders have supported the bowlers more than any thing else.
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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 Thu 20 Jun 2013, 1:22 pm

Finger goes up...That is the change Jadeja can bring.....but but but....Its high man...Decision dropped.
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Post by KP_fan Thu 20 Jun 2013, 1:25 pm

what looked plumb and hiiting 3/4th way up the middle stump......turned out to be 3 or 4 ball length above the bails when DRS extrapolated.


this is where DRS in ball tracking is not reliable......if not calibrated properly for the specific pitch conditions......it can produce too much or too little bounce or too much or too little movement off the pitch.
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Post by Mike Selig Thu 20 Jun 2013, 1:29 pm

Thought it was too high - side-on view showed it was going more or less straight up, rather than tennis ball bounce.

The ball tracking does take into account the bounce of the wicket.

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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 Thu 20 Jun 2013, 1:32 pm

Next 50 comes in half the rate of that of the first. 100 up for SL.
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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 Thu 20 Jun 2013, 1:43 pm

The batting power play is on. This might be crucial for both the teams. SL would like to accelerate and at the same time India Would looking for the risks taken by the SL batsmen.
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Post by trebellbobaggins Thu 20 Jun 2013, 1:44 pm

India look a class apart.  Can't see Eng getting close to them if they play like this.

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Post by Fists of Fury Thu 20 Jun 2013, 1:44 pm

England whopped India 3-0 last time we had an ODI series here...keep the faith.

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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 Thu 20 Jun 2013, 1:54 pm

This team is not the same FoF. This team looks more spirited. Indian Batting, Bowling, and Fielding have improved and is the best in this tournament so far. Though English Bowling is better but we are ahead in two departments if compared this time. I hope a competitive final If Weather  
doesn't disrupt, and most important if India get past SL today. Smile
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Post by Fists of Fury Thu 20 Jun 2013, 2:10 pm

India do look very strong. I'll be hoping for some swing and some seam, similar to yesterday and today. I think the English top order is probably more suited to such conditions. Flat pitch and India win comfortably.

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Post by NickisBHAFC Thu 20 Jun 2013, 2:13 pm

SL are going to need a big end to there innings, or its going to look like an easy target and victory for India. 

India once again look class, just can't see how we will beat them if we play them in the final on Sunday.

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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 Thu 20 Jun 2013, 2:22 pm

The only sphere where England can trouble India is their bowling. Anderson and Finn are really going well. So Indian top order have to be more careful. So Fist are you going to watch the final?
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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 Thu 20 Jun 2013, 2:25 pm

The plan better executed. Three man on the leg side and a short ball to a left hander. "Caught in the cage" Parera gone. 6 down for SL.
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Post by trebellbobaggins Thu 20 Jun 2013, 2:28 pm

India fielding is brilliant now.  They turned it around quickly.

They also no longer have weak bowling.

Since the test series wins from Eng they are a different side all round.

Like said above, eng can't trouble them.  They might as well just hand the champions elect the trophy.  how do you beat a team you can't bowl out, who bowl you out and who field perfectly?


Last edited by trebellbobaggins on Thu 20 Jun 2013, 2:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 Thu 20 Jun 2013, 2:30 pm

Interesting going on here. Third umpire called for being bowled!!!!!laughing
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Post by trebellbobaggins Thu 20 Jun 2013, 2:31 pm

what is the current forecast for sunday, lots of rain around at the mo, is it due to head off?

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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 Thu 20 Jun 2013, 2:42 pm

trebellbobaggins wrote:India fielding is brilliant now.  They turned it around quickly.

They also no longer have weak bowling.

Since the test series wins from Eng they are a different side all round.

Like said above, eng can't trouble them.  They might as well just hand the champions elect the trophy.  how do you beat a team you can't bowl out, who bowl you out and who field perfectly?


Your words seems interesting, but I was just saying about competitive cricket if India make into the finals. And also looking at the current performance India has done good and so as England. Indian batting looks better than that of England now and so as the fielding. English bowling is bit better here in this series than India but bit only. And no one will hand over the trophy It will be won by the better side that day. India can bowl out England also like they did to Pakistan and WI.
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Post by cherriesfna Thu 20 Jun 2013, 2:43 pm

has dilshan retired or something or has he gernerally faced 21 balls Laugh

surely he couldnt have opened in confused Headscratch
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Post by cherriesfna Thu 20 Jun 2013, 2:47 pm

btw my confusion stmes from the fact that he is listed as the No2 batsman on BBC and Sky sports
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Post by Mike Selig Thu 20 Jun 2013, 2:47 pm

Don't think India are that far ahead. England's bowling probably just has the edge (Sharma could still be a weak link, and you can get after Ashwin), and their fielding is as good. India have the superior batting undoubtedly, but if it swings and Anderson is his usual self England have a good shot.

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Post by GSC Thu 20 Jun 2013, 2:48 pm

He retired hurt Cherries
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Post by Mike Selig Thu 20 Jun 2013, 2:48 pm

Dilshan retired hurt clearly in some pain early on, and came back out only at the end.

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Post by GSC Thu 20 Jun 2013, 2:50 pm

India would be a very tough matchup for England, but I'd still fancy us in seaming conditions. If we turn up at Edgbaston and its sunny and flat, then India would be heavy favorites
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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 Thu 20 Jun 2013, 3:15 pm

182 is not a big score but not too easy to get on this wicket. India have to be careful for the first 10 overs. Malinga and Kulasekhra would be crucial at the start. Dilshan will not gonna bowl today.
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Post by Mike Selig Thu 20 Jun 2013, 4:48 pm

Just as one-sided as yesterday, possibly more so.

Hopefully the final will be a closer affair, else the tournament will feel like it ended on a bit of a damp squib.

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Post by GSC Thu 20 Jun 2013, 4:51 pm

Yep. Really depends on conditions as to who wins sunday.
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Post by teassoc Thu 20 Jun 2013, 5:51 pm

May also depend heavily on who wins the toss which is pure luck of course.
GSC wrote:Yep. Really depends on conditions as to who wins sunday.

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Post by GSC Thu 20 Jun 2013, 5:56 pm

True enough. If conditions are like the morning of yesterdays game, or the NZ game, India may struggle. If its flat and sunny we'll struggle.
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Post by Duty281 Thu 20 Jun 2013, 6:16 pm

Pleased to see England have got the Indians in the final. England have got the clear edge if the conditions are anything like yesterday.

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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 Thu 20 Jun 2013, 7:21 pm

We are happy here to be in the finals of this tournament after 11 years. Now the final is in Birmingham on Sunday. Ya as above said it will totally depend on the condition and toss. Though both the team has won each of their league matches here. Being a home side England will have an edge over India but present performance of Indian team seems India will not give up easily or may force England to give up. The spin duo of Jadeja and Ashwin will surely create problems for the English batsmen during middle overs. Indian pacers are also performing well.
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Post by msp83 Thu 20 Jun 2013, 7:53 pm

Watched the game today, but was away from my PC the entire day today, so couldn't participate in the discussions here.
It was a clinical performance from the Indians, with ball, bat and in the field. Bhuvneshwar Kumar, as usual was his usual self, giving not much away, and an early wicket as well. Umesh Yadav too enjoyed the conditions and bowled well, and Ishant Sharma got wickets. Ravichandran Ashwin and Ravindra Jadeja bowled really well in not so helpful conditions, against players who are used to spin bowling.
Kohli failed to judg a skier, but Raina was electric with a few catches, and the ground fielding too was pretty good.
Shikhar Dhawan and Virat Kohli scored 50s, a fine run of consistency from Dhawan so far in the tournament, and good to see Kohli finding a substantial innings under his belt before the final. Rohit Sharma too got another start, and more importantly, provided the team with yet another good start in the company of Dhawan. Rohit should convert these starts into bigger efforts, but at least he has earned his chances for the next tournament on the basis of actual performance rather than potential.
Really enjoyed seeing MS bowl, he can bowl at a decent clip for a wicketkeeper, over 120, and he did maintain a decent line and length and got a couple to move as well. Smart thinking on his part, the Lankans would never have seen that coming!.

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Post by msp83 Thu 20 Jun 2013, 8:08 pm

India's bowling isn't the best in the tournament, but they have been the best batting side, and even the best fielding unit in this tournament. England's bowling is certainly a better one, and they have a decent top order, that could be a bit rigid at times, but almost always provide them with a platform.
While England's bowling unit could ask more questions to the Indian batting unit than any other bowling unit managed so far, interestingly, I think the same holds for the English batsmen as well. England never faced Pakistani bowling unit in the tournament, and SA without Steyn and Morkel and the backup of Kallis is seriously lacking in class.
Bhuvneshwar Kumar is a solid opening bowler for India, and even in the subcontinent, he has been able to provide early wickets for the team in his short career so far. Umesh Yadav has pace, Ishant Sharma is a decent 3rd seamer. More importantly, England will have to deal with an examination by spin in the middle overs. They couldn't get Daniel Vettori away, and Even the likes of Nathan McCullum managed to keep a lid on their batting more than ones in this summer. Jadeja and Ashwin are better than any other spinners that England faced in this summer.
As for India, James Anderson could present the greatest threat. Steven Finn has done well against them even in the flat tracks of the subcontinent, Stuart Broad could produce an unplayable spell from nowhere on a good day. James Tredwell is a handy replacement for Graeme Swann. Unlike India, England's 5th bowler could be a weakling, Joe Root's spin is unlikely to trouble the Indians a lot, Ravi Bopara would need real favorable conditions to make an impact on them as well. If the conditions do not offer much for them, the 5th bowler could go for plenty against this batting lineup. Would England consider playing Tim Bresnan as the 5th bowler ahead of Bopara? Not really likely, particulary considering Bopara has done a decent job with the bat so far in the tournament, and Eoin Morgan and Jos Buttler are yet to make any decent contribution in the tournament.
Both sides have their strengths. I feel if India are chasing, they have a greater chance. Likewise if England are bowling first, their chances could also be better.
Hopes the game goes through without weather trouble.

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Post by KP_fan Thu 20 Jun 2013, 8:39 pm

India crushed Lanka as comprehensively as Eng crushed SA...and aptly the two strongest sides in the final.

India has looked stronger both with the bat and ball........because India has 5 specialits bowlers.....and their 5th bowler Jadeja has been their biggest striker so far....
and also because England wasn't playing their best bowling until they brought Finn in last game.
Tredwell might be exposed in the final.

Batting wise India has more fire power on paper......but Dhawan might have law of averages catching up...and all that it takes is a one sub-optimal day for India to crash
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Post by msp83 Thu 20 Jun 2013, 9:28 pm

Virat Kohli scored yet another 50+ score against Sri Lanka. He has 5 hundreds and 8 50s against them so far.
Another interesting aspect of his innings was the way he paced it. He was 18 of 40, and ended up not out 58 of 64.

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Post by msp83 Thu 20 Jun 2013, 9:33 pm

KP_fan wrote:India crushed Lanka as comprehensively as Eng crushed SA...and aptly the two strongest sides in the final.

India has looked stronger both with the bat and ball........because India has 5 specialits bowlers.....and their 5th bowler Jadeja has been their biggest striker so far....
and also because England wasn't playing their best bowling until they brought Finn in last game.
Tredwell might be exposed in the final.

Batting wise India has more fire power on paper......but Dhawan might have law of averages catching up...and all that it takes is a one sub-optimal day for India to crash
KPF, Kulasekara was causing some serious problems for the 2 Indian openers. Rohit played him mostly with the edge of his bat, and Dhawan offered a couple of chances that weren't taken. Anderson's swing could create some problems for India's so far successful opening partnership. As a comprehensive bowling unit, Jadeja's presence gives India the edge, but Anderson's class, Finn's talent and Broad's experience make England the superior seam bowling unit. If the Indian top order manages to survive Anderson, India would be in a position to utilize the weaker 5th bowler of England to their advantage.

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Post by msp83 Thu 20 Jun 2013, 9:37 pm

Alastair Cook loves batting and batting against the Indian bowlers, Trott won't get out for anything less than 37!. The Indians would be very relieved that KP won't be there to further add to the problems for them. Without him, Joe Root is the one player whom the Indian spinners have to really watch out for in the middle overs.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 20 Jun 2013, 10:54 pm

You think if England are gonna win, Buttler/Morgan have to come to the party and do their job for once.

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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 Fri 21 Jun 2013, 5:11 am

I do agree with MSP and KPF. England has an edge over Indians. Everything will depend on the performance of Sunday. Both the teams have played a really interesting tournament, and I suppose the best two of the top eight are in the final. This tournament really looked like a competitive tournament with lots of interesting matches, right from the start. In the first match India batted beautifully and the chase was also the same until SA collapsed mid way. Then came two low scoring but most interesting matches. SL vs NZ was really a heart taking match. Then one high score from England successfully chased by SL. One thing unfortunate that both the semifinals were one sided. But at last the best two are in finals and I suppose we are going to get one of the best final ever seen. The tackling of Indian top order to the deadly pace attack of Jimmy, Finn and Then how Cook and company handle the Indian pace attack that devastated them early this year in the Sub-continent. Then the middle overs would be crucial. But till now Indian spin attack has created problems for all the teams so far. But here they have not faced Cook, Bell and Trott, who are considered to be the best English men against spin. One thing England is lacking is the fire work of Morgan and butler lower down the order. But still I am unfortunate not to be there at Birmingham but will enjoy that on TV.
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Post by msp83 Fri 21 Jun 2013, 8:53 am

subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:I do agree with MSP and KPF. England has an edge over Indians. Everything will depend on the performance of Sunday. Both the teams have played a really interesting tournament, and I suppose the best two of the top eight are in the final. This tournament really looked like a competitive tournament with lots of interesting matches, right from the start. In the first match India batted beautifully and the chase was also the same until SA collapsed mid way. Then came two low scoring but most interesting matches. SL vs NZ was really a heart taking match. Then one high score from England successfully chased by SL. One thing unfortunate that both the semifinals were one sided. But at last the best two are in finals and I suppose we are going to get one of the best final ever seen. The tackling of Indian top order to the deadly pace attack of Jimmy, Finn and Then how Cook and company handle the Indian pace attack that devastated them early this year in the Sub-continent. Then the middle overs would be crucial. But till now Indian spin attack has created problems for all the teams so far. But here they have not faced Cook, Bell and Trott, who are considered to be the best English men against spin. One thing England is lacking is the fire work of Morgan and butler lower down the order. But still I am unfortunate not to be there at Birmingham but will enjoy that on TV.  
Kumar, I think Bell and Trott won't be able to take the attack to the Indian spinners all that much. They can score runs, but I don't see them hitting Jadeja or Ashwin out of the attack. But Cook if he gets settled, can adapt his game and even bring the Indian spinners under serious pressure. Eoin Morgan is another player, ones set, can take on the spinners. It won't be able to charge the Indian spinners all that easily, so England have to be positive from the start, no pinch hitting or recklessness, Cook on form usually gets going in the early overs itself, but against Sri Lanka his timing was all over the place and he struggled to get going. Jonathan Trott has improved his early over game, for the last few games, he has looked busy from the word go. He is not the type of player who can score a 30 ball 50 or a 70 ball 100, but he has started batting more positively from the start, and very importantly, he has managed to stay on beyond the 35 over mark against SL, and finished off the chase against SA.

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Post by GSC Fri 21 Jun 2013, 10:20 am



Swanny Laugh
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Post by trebellbobaggins Fri 21 Jun 2013, 1:31 pm

Yeah I seriously do see India as huge favourites.  Better fielding and batting unit and probably equal bowling in this form. Eng couldn't touch them last time they played and it's hard to see what they can do now really.

They'll give it a bash no doubt.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 22 Jun 2013, 1:25 pm

Weather's awful for tomorrow - shared trophy the most likely possibility.

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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 Sat 22 Jun 2013, 1:52 pm

Duty281 wrote:Weather's awful for tomorrow - shared trophy the most likely possibility.


That would be the most Frustrating...But still I have my finger crossed. Hope a full match tomorrow.Fingers Crossed
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Post by NickisBHAFC Sat 22 Jun 2013, 2:11 pm

Couldn't they just move the match to Monday, if there is no play what so ever tomorrow?

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sat 22 Jun 2013, 2:19 pm

20 over bishy boshy would be perfect for India coming off the IPL.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 22 Jun 2013, 4:00 pm

No reserve days unfortunately Nick
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Post by Duty281 Sat 22 Jun 2013, 4:50 pm

http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc-champions-trophy-2013/content/story/644313.html

This may not be the last Champions Trophy - the ICC are considering their options.

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Post by GSC Sat 22 Jun 2013, 5:29 pm

It does make a few good points, not least about Britains multi ethic communities providing a much better support with sensible pricing to boot (see WI WC).

The lack of minnows like Ireland etc has boosted this tournament, there hasn't really been any throwaway games
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