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1st IT20 - England vs New Zealand - The Oval

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:08 pm

First topic message reminder :

1st T20 game of the two match series.

Teams are as follows;

ENG: Hales, Lumb, Wright, Morgan, Bopara, Buttler, Stokes, Woakes, Tredwell, Dernbach (god help us), Rankin

NZ: Rutherford, Franklin, McCullum, Taylor, Latham, Munro, N McCullum, and some others I can't remember atm

England have won the toss and will field first. Eoin Morgan captains.
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Post by JDizzle Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:44 pm

What a shot from Buttler. Very Happy

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Post by trebellbobaggins Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:45 pm

was weird but worked.

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Post by Duty281 Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:46 pm

Buttler misses the scoop completely there and gets run out. Kinda sums it up for him. 18 from 8.

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Post by JDizzle Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:46 pm

There is absolutely no way the keeper was aiming at the non striker's end stumps.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:46 pm

and out  kiws have been thebetter fielding side by far.

game well over. well played kiwis. 

in the end eng did ok in the chase.  the failure was several terrible bowlers.

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Post by JDizzle Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:47 pm

I'm still backing that he's lobbing it to the bowler who's just stacked it!

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Post by Duty281 Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:49 pm

16 from the last over. 15 for a super over.

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Post by Duty281 Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:50 pm

6 from Stokes first ball!

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Post by trebellbobaggins Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:51 pm

yeah no chance.

at least they got close after the bowlers got knocked all over the park.

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Post by Duty281 Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:52 pm

9 from 3 - down to you Ravi!

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Post by ChequeredJersey Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:53 pm

Redemption for Ravi?
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Post by trebellbobaggins Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:53 pm

so much time wasting between every ball now.  get on with it for god sake.

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Post by ChequeredJersey Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:54 pm

no
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Post by JDizzle Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:54 pm

6 for a super over! Come on Super Rav!

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Post by Duty281 Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:54 pm

7 from 1 now. 6 needed from Ravi for a super over.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:54 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:Redemption for Ravi?

nope. but he played well.

the bowling, especially Woakes, lost this today.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:55 pm

well played nz.  just too good today,

and Giles.. select proper bowlers or forget it.


getting a bit fed up seeing nz consistently outclass England when we don't pick a team and then lose when we do.  Has Giles not learned to respect them yet?


Last edited by trebellbobaggins on Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Duty281 Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:56 pm

Booo. England lose again.

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Post by ChequeredJersey Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:56 pm

Too little too late
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Post by NickisBHAFC Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:57 pm

Fantastic game of cricket, it has to be said.

But for what England could of done differently, simple get better bowlers into the team.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:00 pm

NickisBHAFC wrote:Fantastic game of cricket, it has to be said.

But for what England could of done differently, simple get better bowlers into the team.

I'm pretty sure the likes of Broad, Bresnan and Finn are being rested.
Swann is injured (or is recuperating from injury)

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Post by trebellbobaggins Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:01 pm

NickisBHAFC wrote:Fantastic game of cricket, it has to be said.

But for what England could of done differently, simple get better bowlers into the team.

That is all really.  it was a good chase, it just had to chase a score allowed by silly bowling.


this series looks another whitewash though with this attack.  These selections are ruining engs rankings all over the place.


On a positive at least eng don't rely on the same big hitters in every format like nz, so except in bowling maybe it's good for the depth. NZ are learning very little here.

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Post by JDizzle Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:05 pm

Decent batting effort from England. No-one went on and got the big 70 or 80 which probably would have won us the game. A mixture of poor bowling, good deck and a short boundary cost us in the first innings. To be fair, 180+ was about par, so bar a disastrous over from Woakes and Tredwell/Bops going for a few we were right in the mix with an essentially second string bowling line up.

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Post by Gregers Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:09 pm

Great game, Wright proving his class in t20

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:10 pm

Ah a good game of cricket, nearly got there in the end, would probably say the fielding was the difference, NZ were different gravy in the field

Good to see some of the young lads get a go. Stokes I still think will be a very handy player once he develops a bit more.

Morgan is really struggling at the minute with the bat.
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Post by JDizzle Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:12 pm

It doesn't really prove Wright's class in T20s. He bowled well and batted well tonight, but he needs to do it a bit more consistently to prove his class for me.

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Post by Marcus Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:31 pm

The batsmen did well tonight. Unfortunately they were let down by a bowling attack which was, quite frankly, an embarrassment.

Time for the Woakes experiment to end. He is woefully out of his depth at international level. I would consider him to be a poor man's Ronnie Irani, which is just about the biggest insult an international cricketer can get.

Dernbach wasn't the most expensive for once, which is shocking in itself, however I think England should look elsewhere so he can concentrate on getting 100% tattoo coverage.

I think Morgan needs to go back to county cricket and rediscover the art of batting. He has been beyond poor this summer.

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Post by Shelsey93 Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:58 pm

Nothing to be overly concerned about tonight.

Woakes, as we have known for a while, is not an effective white ball bowler. I wouldn't have picked him and I'm not sure he'll play for England for some time now. But Dernbach (pitch suited him) and Rankin both did well. Spinners get him from time to time in T20 and it was Tredwell's turn today.

With the bat it was a good effort. Morgan is still some distance from his best but he's not in totally horrific form - hopefully he can find some runs during what should now be an unusually long period with Middlesex. Great to see the crowd chanting Ravi Bopara's name - a year or so back everybody seemed to hate him. He's a confidence player and I now wouldn't be surprised to see him make a Test comeback if Bairstow doesn't get it right.

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Post by DP Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:04 pm

I was going to pick up on Ravi. You can see the confidence is back and the crowd backing him will be a lift, massively deserved too after the Champions Trophy.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:17 pm

Marcus wrote:The batsmen did well tonight. Unfortunately they were let down by a bowling attack which was, quite frankly, an embarrassment.

Time for the Woakes experiment to end. He is woefully out of his depth at international level. I would consider him to be a poor man's Ronnie Irani, which is just about the biggest insult an international cricketer can get.

Dernbach wasn't the most expensive for once, which is shocking in itself, however I think England should look elsewhere so he can concentrate on getting 100% tattoo coverage.

I think Morgan needs to go back to county cricket and rediscover the art of batting. He has been beyond poor this summer.

You seem to have a serious downer on Woakes and Giles.
Why is that?

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Post by Marcus Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:40 pm

Hoggy_Bear wrote:
Marcus wrote:The batsmen did well tonight. Unfortunately they were let down by a bowling attack which was, quite frankly, an embarrassment.

Time for the Woakes experiment to end. He is woefully out of his depth at international level. I would consider him to be a poor man's Ronnie Irani, which is just about the biggest insult an international cricketer can get.

Dernbach wasn't the most expensive for once, which is shocking in itself, however I think England should look elsewhere so he can concentrate on getting 100% tattoo coverage.

I think Morgan needs to go back to county cricket and rediscover the art of batting. He has been beyond poor this summer.

You seem to have a serious downer on Woakes and Giles.
Why is that?


Woakes is out of his depth, adding nothing to the team either with the bat or the ball. I'm sure he performs fine in county cricket, but this is a big step up, and at the moment the step is too big for him. He hasn't got the pace or movement to trouble international batsmen, and hasn't got the control to restrict them. As for his batting, I can't remember him batting well on any occasion other than on his debut a few years ago when he clubbed a few sixes in to cow corner. He's obviously got a bit of talent, but he needs to improve every area of his game if he wants to be a regular international.

Giles' tactics are stuck in the mid 90's. His tactics are totally inflexible, giving me the impression that he can't/doesn't want to think on his feet. He might have gotten away with it in county cricket, but in international cricket he is up against far superior tactical minds. His teams never set out to dominate an opponent with the bat, seemingly preferring to try and win the match by the skin of their teeth. The only times England have won comfortably with him in charge have been when the bowlers have blown away the opposition top order. Up until wheelie bin took charge the England ODI/2020 team looked to be on an upward trajectory... since then we have taken several steps backwards. What happened to fearless cricket?

Then you have his team selections. If it is an international match you should try to put out your strongest side. The bowling line up today was 3rd rate, and the batting lineup throughout the champions trophy was very negative and over reliant on unproven/out of form middle order players. If Bopara hadn't shocked us all by playing out of his skin we wouldn't have got through the group stages.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:51 pm

Woakes is not a good one-day bowler even at county level. To write him off as a player based on some less than steller performances in formats which don't suit him is a little unfair IMO.
As for Giles' tactics, they worked well enough to get us to the final of the Champion's Trophy and, even when the final was reduced to 20 overs a side, we should have won if Morgan, Bopara and Buttler hadn't all gotten out in quick succession. Not much a coach can do about that.
And do you really think that Giles decided to leave out all the players who might play in the Ashes off his own bat? Really?

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Post by KP_fan Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:47 am

some of these guys in the T20 side of England should get a look in in the ODIs.
 
NZ continue to beat Eng when it matters less......
 
Eng  lose again by their favourite margin of 5 runs Cool
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Post by Fists of Fury Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:50 am

Marcus, stop talking utter crap, please.

Until you've watched Woakes regularly with a red ball in his hand you are not at all in a place to comment.

As Shelsey and Hoggy say, it is England's worst kept secret that Woakes is a far different proposition with a red ball than a white one. His domestic List A stats are not great, whereas his first class stats stand up to absolutely anybody's. 

As for criticising his batting...are you for real? He's had cameos and nothing else for England with the bat, why don't you come down to Edgbaston and watch him bat in the Championship? Averaging 45+ for 2-3 seasons is no mean feat, particularly when he is often asked to accelerate the scoring. He is not too far off the likes of Bairstow with a bat in his hand.

You sound to me like one of those toffy home county cretins that is simply averse to anyone or anything north of Essex. Next time, please wait until you have seen the players you're criticising properly before spouting such bile.

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Post by liverbnz Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:01 am

Fists, what are you judging Bairstow of here? Bairstow has played 9 less FC games yet has 4 more centuries and 16 more 50s with a superior average.

Is Woakes really going to be good enough to bat top 6 for England? When I have seen him (which is rare I admit) I just don't see it, although I'm sure you are better placed than I to make that judgement. For me, Bairstow justifies his place in the top 6 although England need to handle him a whole lot better than they have been.

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Post by Stella Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:09 am

I would wage a bet that Woakes has a few NO's to obtain that average. Looks decent with the bat, but that's it.
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Post by Fists of Fury Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:32 am

You speak as those that know very little of the man. He is an excellent batsman, and the fact that he bats at 7 or 8 for Warks, who have a loooong batting lineup when everyone is fit, is part of the reason why his century/50 count is considerably less.

He has improved markedly with the bat in the last two years and, if he sustains his current rate of improvement, could well be suited to batting top 6 for England. He's certainly a better player of pace than Bairstow, but I agree that JB deserves his go given his performance against SA and a couple of decent knocks against NZ.

This is by no means a call for Woakes to bat 6 for England, or even for him to be in the side, but more of a defence of the player who is a fantastic cricketer and all-rounder that has been at the forefront of county cricket for a couple of years now.

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Post by Stella Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:42 am

Not good enough to bat at six, but not a good enough bowler to warrant a place in a three seam attack. His test future looks stuffed, unless they go with five bowlers, which include four seamers.

England's loss is The Bears gain, hey fists.
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Post by Fists of Fury Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:47 am

Absolutely.

Yeah I think he's perfect for the number 7 spot in Tests IF England go down that route at all (which they won't).

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Post by Stella Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:08 am

A new coach may prefer five, especially if we are still looking for a middle order player?
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