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Rumour of Shut down

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Post by asdral225 Mon 09 May 2011, 6:41 pm

This item is from the Footballguys site which is the our view bit

Mike Florio. ProFootballTalk
ProFootballTalk.com is reporting they are "hearing initial rumblings pointing to the possibility that a loss by the league at the appellate level will prompt the owners to completely shut down all business operations until the players agree to a new labor deal."



[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ OUR VIEW ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ]

Make sure to see that this is clearly rumor at this point. It's right there in the headline. But it doesn't seem that far fetched if the 8th court does lift the lockout. Stay tuned.

This is the full report but saying that there's not much here
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/
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Post by Derbyblue Mon 09 May 2011, 6:45 pm

Great news...

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Post by GB1919 Mon 09 May 2011, 10:33 pm

Also being reported on NFL.com and portrayed as the best chance of having football in September. The whole situation is almost getting too confusing for me now but if that's the case then I'm all for it. I don't care who wins (or thinks they've won) I just want this sorted (also let's be honest only the owners can really win).

*I've been looking for the article on their website and it seems to have been taken down, all very odd*

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Post by Grizzly Tue 10 May 2011, 8:49 am

Well working on a timeline, there's been no FA, Draft has come and gone and all rookies would normally now be at rookie camp, even if this was resolved today the teams/players everyone is so far behind for the 2011 season.
I struggled with the decision to go ahead with the Draft, all these college guys shaking hands with the commish and wearing their cap/scarf etc, they're not even allowed anywhere near their place of work and could be months away from earning a cent.
You have to assume that players have been professional enough to keep themselves conditioned, but we should also remember that not every player has a $10m a year contract, some of the fringe players would be on a contract that pays little more than you and me, that guy may have been forced to get a security guard job something that puts him weeks behind required fitness levels.
I want football more than anyone come September but the implications of the lockout run deep and there will be some big losers in all of this...

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Post by Pr4wn Tue 10 May 2011, 9:13 am

Gotta agree with you there Grizz. Of course, some teams will be affected far more than others. Young teams like the Bucs and teams with new QBs like the Panthers, Vikings and Titans will all struggle if a new CBA is agreed and we have football next season.

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Post by skins4ever Tue 10 May 2011, 10:20 am

Grizz:
"some of the fringe players would be on a contract that pays little more than you and me, that guy may have been forced to get a security guard job something that puts him weeks behind required fitness levels"

Michael Oher - Mall cop 2! Smile

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Post by Derbyblue Tue 10 May 2011, 10:34 am

If shutting down really is the quickest way to get it all sorted then maybe it's a good thing, but really it should never have gotten this way both sides are being too greedy and if the owners have the costs they say they do then just show them and you get your $2billion, or at least most of it as you have to be able to fit every players wages into the 60% of the left over money.

The only people losing here are the fans and those players who aren't getting paid much (I guess this is practice squad memebers, and those who are back-ups.) I'm fairly sure though the NFLPA has something in place where it offers players $60,000 to help keep their finances ok while the lock outs in place, I'm sure this is true because I read something about DeMarcus Ware rejecting the offer because he said others need it a lot more than him.

Would it be possible for them to delay the start of the season allowing for the rookie camps etc. to take place?

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Post by skins4ever Tue 10 May 2011, 10:47 am

TV schedules are planned far in advance and stadia availability would also factor in, so I'd say delaying the season is a no-no.

However, with the owners wanting to shorten pre-season and increase the number of games, they may get half their wish - scrapping 2 weeks of pre-season and going with 16 games this year would allow moving camp back 2 weeks etc.

If this is real news, I'd expect the deal to be signed by month end. That still leaves enough time to catch up, especially as many players have been organising their own equivalents to the OTA's.

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Post by Grizzly Tue 10 May 2011, 10:50 am

'Would it be possible for them to delay the start of the season allowing for the rookie camps etc. to take place?.'

Fraid not Derby, the only contingency they have is the pro-bowl weekend between Champs and Superbowl

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Post by Grizzly Tue 10 May 2011, 10:53 am

skins - what you say is correct but it creates a heap of problems for sponsors, hospitality, catering service etc, as well as ticket issues in that season ticket include pre-season games, so franchises would be forced to refund 1/9 or 1/10 of season ticket value to fans dependent on how many game they don't play....

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Post by Derbyblue Tue 10 May 2011, 10:58 am

That's a shame, better hope then that all the Rookies get in touch with their new team mates to join in their workouts, I know Colt McCoy has already spoken to the offensive rookies about a little training camp they intend to have around about end of may early june time.

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Post by GB1919 Tue 10 May 2011, 11:14 am

The issue with the rookies joining in the training camps is that they aren't covered by any medical insurance should they get injured there. I remember Rich Eisen talking about it on Total Access sometime last week when Tyron Smith joined up with the current Cowboys players. It could certainly put a few players off taking the risk.

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Post by skins4ever Tue 10 May 2011, 11:20 am

Grizz - To an extent true, but I doubt it will be proportional to regular season games, more like a 20th, as pre-season attendance and revenue don't compare to regular season by a big margin.

But what ever happens, unless a new CB is signed this week, and even then it may be too late, there will be a cost (in time at least), that the owners will have to bear. Unlike players, they have salaried employees (coaches, trainers, admin, stadium maintenance etc.) that will have to be plaid, season or not.

I suspect the owners want a CBA in place ASAP probably more than the players do, but they are thinking about the next 5-10 years of revenue, not just this years, hence they have the better hand to play. A lockout hurts both sides, but it hurts the players more in the short term, and that will force them to negotiate. They may even end up with less than they would have had 2 months ago.

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Post by Grizzly Tue 10 May 2011, 11:28 am

Skins - the owners have in the past stated that any home game, reg season or pre-season holds the same value, this is why they've always included pre-season games in the season ticket package or they know no-one will show up, they can't go back on previous stances even if it suits their pocket !

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Post by skins4ever Tue 10 May 2011, 1:02 pm

I was thinking in terms of refunds, not face value. In the end I guess, how much they would repay would be determined by the ticket T's&C's not the gate taken for the game. I just can't see them ever making as much out of a pre-season game as a regular season game, possibly excepting the HOF game and overseas exhibitions.

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Post by Leedscowboys Tue 10 May 2011, 8:19 pm

I tweeted Jason LaCanfora yestrday



LEEDSCOWBOY
@JasonLaCanfora what truth in NFL Owners shutting down league altogether http://tinyurl.com/3z7apj8 if lockout lifted on appeal


JasonLaCanfora Jason La Canfora @
@LEEDSCOWBOY I don't see that remotely realistic scenario
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Post by Derbyblue Tue 10 May 2011, 8:44 pm

That sounds like good news Leedscowboys lets just hope they can get it sorted quickly now.

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Post by The Mangler US_UK Wed 11 May 2011, 7:00 pm

Collin Cowherd made an interesting point on the radio today in response to people giving Reggie Bush a hard time about tweeting he was enjoying the extra time off. As CC pointed out, these players wouldn't be getting paid now anyway for off-season work, they only get game checks, so there isn't any extra pressure on them right now to give into to owner demands. He points out there won't be any financial pressure until the season actually starts and they start missing game checks, so he thinks it is conceivable that there might not be any movement until the owners have leverage and player resolve begins to breakdown as they begin take the monetary hit. So there is a chance we might miss games (and I hope to God this isn't the case).

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Post by skins4ever Thu 12 May 2011, 1:01 pm

Mangler's right. A number of players have off season/out of football work to fall back on to earn a wage. Many have their own businesses. What will make a difference to rookies and FA's is the lack of up front signing bonus', but that's money they aren't guaranteed, so less of a factor.

This process won't damage the NFL considerably, but if it drags on it will hurt. If the UFL gets a chance to take advantage and gain a foothold in the fans conciousness, then the NFL (and probably the players) might just come to regret allowing this to drag on too long.

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Post by Derbyblue Thu 12 May 2011, 2:14 pm

Skins4ever - I agree, I would say that it is currently not damaging the NFL too much, however if the season is missed then I would say it starts to damage the NFL much more, the UFL could then attempt to sign up more of the NFL talent who are free agents and looking for their next payday. This would help develop the quality of the UFL and if they were to add more expansion franchises then the UFL increases its fan base and could maybe attempt to get television deals outside of the US. Depending on how long this drags on, especially if the owners decide to choose the option of shutting down then I believe the UFL has the potential to provide competition to the NFL, and make those associated with the NFL regret their decision.

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Post by Pr4wn Thu 12 May 2011, 3:05 pm

If we end up missing a season because players and fat cats were too greedy to agree a deal, then I'll wash my hands of the NFL.

I'm not paying them any more money if they don't treat my support with respect.

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Post by skins4ever Thu 12 May 2011, 3:08 pm

I don't think the UFL will be able to take on the NFL head to head. Those that tried have failed (USFL, XFL). The NFL like the premier league has a national monopoly.

What is more likely is the UFL gets more market share allowing them to continue, and the NFL sees a small drop in revenue accordingly. Where it probably bites more is that it would proabbly impact on their expansion plans.

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Post by Derbyblue Thu 12 May 2011, 3:19 pm

I don't imagine it will ever get to a point where the UFL becomes market leader (unless something drastically bad happens to the NFL), in terms of either revenue or brand recognition, but I believe that they have the ability to capitalise upon the current issues in the NFL. This has already been demonstrated by them moving their draft forward so they could have contact with undrafted free agents to see if they would be willing to play in the UFL. If the lockout is kept in place, or removed and the owners decide to shut down then I expect the UFL to act quickly and effectively, this in my view will see more expansion franchises being added, the NFL's free agents being signed up and tv and advertising deals being boosted. I admit there may not be too many free agents currently willing to join the UFL but if it gets announced that there won't be a season where are they meant to go? Not all of them are clever with their finances, or have their own businesses.

Also am I right in thinking none of the rookies will have yet signed contracts with their respective teams does this mean they would be able to play in other leagues?

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Post by Grizzly Thu 12 May 2011, 3:26 pm

Derby/Skins - I don't agree, I think any controversy that surrounds a sport damages it as a product.
Financially the sport runs the risk of decreased fanbase, reduced TV revenue and smaller advertising deals if it can't sort out the differences, if these differences continue into the season then some of these issues could be irrepairable.
Take baseball - the prime slot they'd want is Sunday afternoon/evening, prime TV slots, at the moment these are monopolised by NFL but if there's no football why wouldn't they look to maximise their audience ?
The sport is a far bigger animal these days that it was during the last lockout, more of a global product, and of course there was no satellite TV around then so sports fans just went without NFL/dilluted NFL, these days the audiences around the world have a million options of live sport on Sundays and any loss of football could be lost fans forever.
The league cannot afford to run this risk....


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Post by Derbyblue Thu 12 May 2011, 3:46 pm

Grizzly - I understand your point that it could damage the sport as a whole. In terms of television deals, whilst I'm unaware of how they are structured I would assume they guarantee the times in which the NFL will be shown on the networks, and so I would guess that yes another sport could look to take their slots but I would also guess that if the NFL were to return either part way through the season or next year then the NFL would be returned to its usual slots and the replacement is moved back to its usual spot. I also would say that the NFL is such a well known brand that it would probably survive missing a season, however I don't feel they should take the risk as some fans will leave and not return, as Pr4wn has already said he wil do.

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Post by skins4ever Thu 12 May 2011, 3:53 pm

I think the NFL is already suffering some damage, if only in the goodwill stakes so far. But much longer and it will hit home. They keep going on about selling the game abroad, but if the season is endangered, that risks the Wembley game and if that doesn't happen that's a lot of international goodwill lost.

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Post by Grizzly Thu 12 May 2011, 4:14 pm

I don't think the NFL needs an international game or indeed an international fanbase to survive, but it does need it to grow/develop and the absence of any football could impact this and set the sport back years.
Why wouldn't baseball (in the absence of NFL) sign a TV deal showing prime time games on Sunday and when NFL does finally get a deal done allow NFL and baseball to compete for the same market ?
I appreciate the TV companies haven nothing to gain here...

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Post by Leedscowboys Thu 12 May 2011, 4:28 pm

UFL is not big enough to take on the NFL not enough teams, they would need around 12-14 teams, however the NFL true rival and they get a lot more fans is College Football
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Post by Derbyblue Thu 12 May 2011, 4:29 pm

The international game/fanbase isn't necessary for the NFL to survive, but it does help make the league stronger and should make them in control more money.

I would assume because the MLB and NFL already have their TV deals in place, which probably puts some obstacles in the way of simply moving times so that it can be shown during the prime time.

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Post by Derbyblue Thu 12 May 2011, 4:31 pm

Leedscowboys wrote:UFL is not big enough to take on the NFL not enough teams, they would need around 12-14 teams, however the NFL true rival and they get a lot more fans is College Football
I'm not saying they can currently compete but I'm saying if situations favourable to the UFL occur I feel they can capitalise on them, and I said they should do this by creating more teams.

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Post by The Mangler US_UK Fri 13 May 2011, 1:12 am

The USFL actually made a good run at it and was pretty successful --- till Donald Trump pushed to move their schedule from the Spring to the Fall to compete head to head with the NFL.

ESPN had an excellent 30 for 30 episode on it: Small Potatoes: Who Killed the USFL?

See if you can find it somewhere -- it's a good watch.

http://30for30.espn.com/film/small-potatoes-who-killed-the-usfl.html


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Post by skins4ever Fri 13 May 2011, 10:21 am

To be honest, it could be argued the World League wasn't a failure. Had they expanded that and included more home grown talent, they wouldn't;t have been so reliant on no name FA's and NFL team allocations (again many no names) to sustain it.

Of course, had it still been in existence, it too would have been shut down this year due to the same CBA issues! Whistle

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