Tri-Nation Tournament West Indies

First topic message reminder :

Before the dust ssettles on the Champion's trophy, we have yet another Tri Nations tournament involving India. West Indies hosts the tournament with Sri Lanka being the 3rd side involved.
For West Indies, this is an opportunity to jell well under the leadership of new skipper Dwayne Bravo. Ramnaresh Sarwan is dropped due to poor form, and there is no place for young seamer Jason Holder either. West Indies have retained the rest of the squad that played the CT.
As for Sri Lanka, this tournament gives further opportunities to the likes of Dinesh Chandimal, Lahiru Thirimanne and skipper Angelo Mathews to make the step up that reduce the side's real dependence on senior players like Kumar Sangakkara and Mahela Jayawardene. Although both were in fime form during the CT, the younger players have to make the qualitative step sooner rather than later, as Kumar and Mahela won't be around for ever. Opener and senior player Tillakaratne Dilshan is out with an injury, otherwise Lanka have also retained the rest of their CT squad.
As for India this is an opportunity to consolidate the gains from the CT. The young squad should benefit from more game time with each other. The likes of Rohit Sharma and Dinesh Karthik have the opportunity to firm up their place in the side. The slowish and lowish nature of the tracks in the West Indies should suit Ravichandran Ashwin and Ravindra Jadeja, and it presents a challenge to the quick bowlers to adapt quickly from the more friendly conditions in England, though there was no serious swing available in most of the games there. All-rounder Irfan Pathan is out with an injury, but the rest of the winning squad that played in the CT are there for this tournament.
Like most of the Tri-Nations tournament, this one is also a money spinner mostly due to India's presence, and it has come at the cost of a 2 test series between West Indies and Sri Lanka. There is no larger context to this tournament as such, but all the 3 teams have something to add to, consolidate, and improve up on.

Interesting finish here!!!

West Indies one hit away from a win. They need 6 runs of 4 overs. Roach looking comfortable enough there, and unlike some of the others, he's batting with some sense.

4 runs, 1 wicket! Great finish.

So West Indies do it at the end. They almost messed it up, but Roach showed lot of sense, and in the company of the last man Best, he finished the chase off.
It was a fine effort from Johnson Charles. Charles is a limited batsman in many ways, but he has started producing the goods more consistently of late, and whatever be his method, it seems to be working for him as of now. Good contribution from Darren Bravo as well. The Indian bowlers made a fight out of this total, either side of that partnership between Charles and Bravo, they stuck to their task well.
India certainly missed Dhoni's leadership, and his wicketkeeping as well.

Having watched the dying stages yesterday, I'm going to bang on about one particular point: Ishant Sharma's fielding is simply disgraceful for an international cricketer.

While India have traditionally carried a few passengers in the field, it's been one of the noticeable and very positive changes that Fletcher has brought since the older players (whose let's say work ethic in the field may not have been in keeping with the modern game): they're now a very good fielding outfit. Ashwin (who used to be rubbish) has turned himself into a good slip fielder, and the departures of Sehwad, Tendulkar, Laxman, etc. has them looking much much sharper in the field in general (Jadeja, Kohli are both superb fielders in particular).

However, there remains one exception, and that is Ishant Sharma. Now I'm sorry, but the guy is what? 25? There's just no excuse for it at all. Why am I talking about this in relation to yesterday's finish? I think it was with 4 runs needed that Roach pushed the ball to Sharma at mid-off. This was a backfoot defensive shot to a man meant to be inside the circle saving the single. Instead, Sharma was on his heels, day-dreaming, barely attacked the ball, and then fumbled it anyway. What should have been a risky run turned into a stroll through. You could feel the frustration seething off Kohli at that point (of course, Sharma shouldn't really have been at mid-off you could argue, though it's becoming increasingly difficult to hide anyone in the field nowadays).

People may think I'm being harsh, but Sharma is just consistently awful in the field. More importantly, he appears to be making no effort to improve (at least none that is visible), unlike Ashwin (who used to be nearly as bad). I hope Fletcher has a serious word with Ishant, because one bad bit of fielding can really deflate a team (and to be honest I thought it happened yesterday to an extent), just as one good bit can lift them (ask Mike, he'll tell you all about that time when after an ordinary start in the field, their keeper took a stunning one-handed catch in front of second slip, and they promptly bowled the other side out in about 20 overs or so).

India fight but WI scrap throuhg putting 10 runs for the last wicket,

Missing Dhoni on the field as a captain......probably cost us....there was just that 10% extra smart, on the feet, clever thinking missing...althouhg Kohli did a good job.

Karthik did his statutory one miss behind the stumps......and reconfirmed why he wasn't able to establish himself in the Indian team.....he misses one rotuine chance every ODI and probably 2 per test match inning.

You cannot work with a WK like that.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Having watched the dying stages yesterday, I'm going to bang on about one particular point: Ishant Sharma's fielding is simply disgraceful for an international cricketer.

.

sometime back with all the oldies in the team.......Ishant looked like the average standard.
No he looks highly below average......Ashwin is just as bad......but not quite as brainless,nonchalant and "unembarrased" about his limitations as Ishant.

The positive spin.....it's a marked improvement in India team where from being one of the crowd......now Ishant stands apart

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Having watched the dying stages yesterday, I'm going to bang on about one particular point: Ishant Sharma's fielding is simply disgraceful for an international cricketer.

While India have traditionally carried a few passengers in the field, it's been one of the noticeable and very positive changes that Fletcher has brought since the older players (whose let's say work ethic in the field may not have been in keeping with the modern game): they're now a very good fielding outfit. Ashwin (who used to be rubbish) has turned himself into a good slip fielder, and the departures of Sehwad, Tendulkar, Laxman, etc. has them looking much much sharper in the field in general (Jadeja, Kohli are both superb fielders in particular).

However, there remains one exception, and that is Ishant Sharma. Now I'm sorry, but the guy is what? 25? There's just no excuse for it at all. Why am I talking about this in relation to yesterday's finish? I think it was with 4 runs needed that Roach pushed the ball to Sharma at mid-off. This was a backfoot defensive shot to a man meant to be inside the circle saving the single. Instead, Sharma was on his heels, day-dreaming, barely attacked the ball, and then fumbled it anyway. What should have been a risky run turned into a stroll through. You could feel the frustration seething off Kohli at that point (of course, Sharma shouldn't really have been at mid-off you could argue, though it's becoming increasingly difficult to hide anyone in the field nowadays).

People may think I'm being harsh, but Sharma is just consistently awful in the field. More importantly, he appears to be making no effort to improve (at least none that is visible), unlike Ashwin (who used to be nearly as bad). I hope Fletcher has a serious word with Ishant, because one bad bit of fielding can really deflate a team (and to be honest I thought it happened yesterday to an extent), just as one good bit can lift them (ask Mike, he'll tell you all about that time when after an ordinary start in the field, their keeper took a stunning one-handed catch in front of second slip, and they promptly bowled the other side out in about 20 overs or so).

Agree with pretty much everything there MFC.
Skipper MS Dhoni has been very happy in recent times about the teams improved fielding. Dhoni has always placed high value on good fielding, and in his new assertive version, he has let his players know how badly he takes it when people make mistakes in the field, and more often than not, these remonstrations have found Ishant Sharma as the target.
Ishant has started delivering some performances of late, nowhere near the hype that was associated with him though, nevertheless there is an improvement, and hopefully that will start reflecting in his fielding as well.

KP_fan wrote:India fight but WI scrap throuhg putting 10 runs for the last wicket,

Missing Dhoni on the field as a captain......probably cost us....there was just that 10% extra smart, on the feet, clever thinking missing...althouhg Kohli did a good job.

Karthik did his statutory one miss behind the stumps......and reconfirmed why he wasn't able to establish himself in the Indian team.....he misses one rotuine chance every ODI and probably 2 per test match inning.

You cannot work with a WK like that.

Karthik took a good catch yesterday and some people got excited, and there were comments on cricinfo suggesting India weren't missing MS behind the stumps all that much. But Dhoni is the best when it comes to stumpings in particular, and at a crucial point in the game Karthik made a big mistake and reconfirmed the value of MS the wicketkeeper as well.
Karthik in fact had a pretty poor match overall. It was his innings that resulted in India losing the momentum with the bat, and he let the West Indies 5th bowler get away so easily, and after spending so much time at the wicket, he got out as well.

there are only 2 problems with Karthik:

1)he is slow brained
2) and lacks big match / international level temperament.....

even in the final of CT...he played an ugly hoik acrosss the line to Tredwell.
he is a clear example...talent ain't everything....
Talent+ temperment+brains are all required for success at international level.
His Chennai-mate Badrinath also falls in the same category...

KP_fan wrote:there are only 2 problems with Karthik:

1)he is slow brained
2) and lacks big match / international level temperament.....

even in the final of CT...he played an ugly hoik acrosss the line to Tredwell.
he is a clear example...talent ain't everything....
Talent+ temperment+brains are all required for success at international level.
His Chennai-mate Badrinath also falls in the same category...

Agree with you KPF. No doubt he is talented but he need to use his brain. Regarding fielding Ishant is a total crap. In the final of CT ball just passed below him and he gave his fake dive. Here also he was doing the same. I am not a big fan of his bowling also. Instead of putting in line of stumps he keeps on bowling here and there. Though we have CT 2013 because of his 2 wickets, but still I believe it was not his talent, it was the bad shot they played and gifted their wicket. Regarding Dhoni, he will surely be missed but giving Rayadu a chance is a good move and I hope he will get a game ahead of Vijay.

Rayadu is being brouhgt in as a WK batsman.
I would play Rayadu ahead of Karthik as a WK

KP_fan wrote:Rayadu is being brouhgt in as a WK batsman.
I would play Rayadu ahead  of Karthik as a WK

In that case Vijay will get a game, but I think DK is well ahead of Vijay, though Rayadu can take up the gloves.

Don't think Rayudu will be taking the gloves ahead of Karthik. With Rohit Sharma forming a successful opening partnership, they may not break it up to accommodate Vijay. Rayudu being a solid middle order batasman in domestic cricket, I feel he would come in for the skipper, but only as batsman. Think Rayudu should bat 4 ahead of Karthik and Raina move down to 6.
MS is one of the best ever ODI batsman and he'll be missed as batsman, captain, and wicketkeeper. Injuries are never timely, but this one has come at a particularly bad time, just when Dhoni was able to mold together a young outfit on his own terms, setting about a process of change, not just the new players, but a new approach to fielding, a new kind of balance for the side with 5 bowlers and so on. But this also presents an opportunity to Virat Kohli. Kohli is the most experienced among the younger lot in Indian cricket, and plays all formats besides being tipped to take over ones MS gets done with the captaincy. With the West Indies and Sri Lanka nearly on full strength, India would have nothing easy for them, and without their best batsman, statesman and leader, it will be interesting to see how they adapt.

cricinfo has a tendency to report the news only on the Big Three of India, England and Australia, and ignore the "smaller" Test-playing nations, which is why a lot of Windies fans call them "misinfo". This is a case in point...both Dhoni and Rampaul are ruled out of the rest of the series, but cricinfo only reports on one of them. Fortunately, very few WI fans rely on cricinfo for their cricket news, and most WI fans rely on other sources....

http://www.espncricinfo.com/tri-nation-west-indies-2013/content/story/646695.html

"MS Dhoni has been ruled out of the West Indies tri-series after he injured his right hamstring during India's one-wicket loss against West Indies on Sunday. Dhoni received treatment on the field during his innings of 27 and did not take the field in the second innings. He may also be unavailable for the five-match ODI series against Zimbabwe which begins on July 24 in Harare."

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/sports/SABINA-THRILLER-213782891.html

"Bravo and Rampaul had scans on Saturday evening which revealed the full extent of their injuries. Bravo has a slight groin strain, but he is expected to be fit for the second leg of the series, in T&T. Rampaul suffered a sprained left ankle while bowling and is expected to be out of action for three weeks. He will return to T&T to continue his rehabilitation. In Bravo’s absence, Pollard led West Indies for the first time in an international match, while Smith and Best replaced the injured pair."

Ambati Rayudu, although named as Dhoni's replacement, is unlikely to be available for today's match against Sri Lanka. That should give Murali Vijay an opportunity. However, it will be interesting to see how the Indians would rearrange their batting order. Vijay is not the kind of player who can straight away come in the middle order for the injured skipper. He's been an opener by trade both at the domestic and international levels, and he has to bat in the top order if he's playing. But India are putting together a successful opening combination in Rohit Sharma and Shikhar, and Rohit has been mostly Nohit in the middle order. So Vijay might have to bat down the order in all likelihood. Virat Kohli has been very successful in that number 3 position. But with MS injured, perhaps he should move one position down to shore up the middle order with Vijay coming in at 3.

msp83 wrote:Ambati Rayudu, although named as Dhoni's replacement, is unlikely to be available for today's match against Sri Lanka. That should give Murali Vijay an opportunity. However, it will be interesting to see how the Indians would rearrange their batting order. Vijay is not the kind of player who can straight away come in the middle order for the injured skipper. He's been an opener by trade both at the domestic and international levels, and he has to bat in the top order if he's playing. But India are putting together a successful opening combination in Rohit Sharma and Shikhar, and Rohit has been mostly Nohit in the middle order. So Vijay might have to bat down the order in all likelihood. Virat Kohli has been very successful in that number 3 position. But with MS injured, perhaps he should move one position down to shore up the middle order with Vijay coming in at 3.

yes that makes sense to bring Vijay at 3 aand move the rest of the order down

India won the toss and are bowling. Murali Vijay comes in for injured skipper Mahendra Singh Dhoni. Surprisingly, they have brought in Shami Ahmed in place of Bhuvneshwar Kumar. I am happy to young Shami getting a game, but I don't really understand why Bhuvneshwar is dropped for him. Bhuvi has been consistently providing early wickets for the team, and even in pitches that don't swing a lot, his accuracy is an asset.
Kusal Perera and Sachitra Senanayake come in for Sri Lanka, replacing Ajantha Mendis and Jeevan Mendis.

Perera is a fantastic young talent...and Seananyake generally out bowled Narine in the KKR side in the ipl.

Sri Lanka are running away with it at the moment. No Bhuvneshwar means no early wickets, and in fact no wickets at all so far. Sri Lanka 153 without loss after 31. Mahela Jayawardene on 80, and Upul Tharanga on 67. Lanka should be disappointed if they don't make 300+ after this start.

The 2 Sri Lankan openers are giving nothing away as of now. Batting powerplay just a couple of balls away. They both are in the 80s. And at the end of 35, they are 179 without loss. A score of 320 is within Sri Lanka's reach here.
The Indians did have a couple of chances in the first hour. In the 2nd over Rohit Sharma missed a run out chance against Tharanga, and then Murali Vijay put down Mahela of Jadeja when he was on 25. Since then, nothing.

Sri Lankans are taking out the revenge that they developed during these two years. And I suppose its going very difficult for the Indians in the Absence of Dhoni. Virat though trying to copy the acts of Dhoni but till now failed. Bhuvi for my shock was dropped ahead of Ishant Sharma(a useless fellow). Apart from all these Jayawardhene looks firm and so as tharanga. 300+ is a confirm score from here.

That is another hundred from Mahela. I had spent my childhood days watching Rahul Dravid batting with strong stance and a firm hold on the ground and bat. Here the same I am thinking while watching Mahela's batting. Though he doesn't freed his arms but you can see each of the shots that are there in the books and that too all round the corner. A brilliant 100   

Jayawardene goes at last. Caught at third-man attempting a reverse sweep of Ashwin. He goes for 107. He was dropped earlier of Jadeja playing the same shot at the same position. Captain Mathews promoting himself ahead of Sangakkara.

Well a good move to accelerate the innings.

I don't think Kohli is using Jadeja as smartly as Dhoni used to do. Dhoni really got some terrific fields for Jadeja, and he used to be the skipper's preferred option during the batting powerplay. But here he hasn't bowled a single over during the powerplay, he had got one to turn really sharply in his last over that he bowled before the batting powerplay.

And Upul Tharanga also reaches his hundred.

msp83 wrote:I don't think Kohli is using Jadeja as smartly as Dhoni used to do. Dhoni really got some terrific fields for Jadeja, and he used to be the skipper's preferred option during the batting powerplay. But here he hasn't bowled a single over during the powerplay, he had got one to turn really sharply in his last over that he bowled before the batting powerplay.

Yup agree here. Kohli though trying his best but not as fruitful as dhoni was.

250 up for SL with more 8 to go. 320 looks comfortable from here.

Last 5 overs has brought 57 runs.

Sri Lanka 291-1 after 46. If they manage 12 an over from here on, they can get to almost 340.

All kinds of trouble for captain Virat. He just missed an opportunity to run Tharanga out but he couldn't effect the direct hit that was needed, the Lankans are flying away, and the overrate is also been poor.

Lanka 300-1 after 47. How many more?

Sri Lanka 339-1, 3 balls remaining to reach the 350 mark.

Seems the Indian quicks are practicing how to bowl full tosses!. Atrocious bowling to help some very good batting.

348-1. This is the final score. Last 10 overs added 124 runs and last 15 overs added 169 runs.

Sri Lanka finish with 348-1. An utterly dominant batting performance from them. The Indians didn't bowl well, but credit to the Lankan batsmen, after they settled in, they just didn't give the bowlers a chance. The Indian fielding has also seen bad old habits creeping back. Without Dhoni, I don't think India have enough fire power or the confidence to chase this down.

Indians are bored participating in anotehr meaningless-masala tournament

India 25-1 after 7. Sri Lanka firmly in control. Vijay and Dhawan will have to produce something sensational here.

Don't think Vijay has correctly read the Sri Lankan score. He seems to think India are chasing 148 and not 348. A couple of boundaries from Dhawan had got India going a bit, but soon after, Vijay has just played out a maiden from Angelo Mathews.

India 28-1 after 10. Really going nowhere. Looks like the makings of a huge defeat here.

Dhawan gone now, caught in the deep of Herath. India 52-2 in the 15th.

imagine the state of meltdown these boards would be in if Bell and Trott had batted like Dhawan and Vijay did here

Mad for Chelsea wrote:imagine the state of meltdown these boards would be in if Bell and Trott had batted like Dhawan and Vijay did here

MFC, if Vijay has got away with it, or for that matter Karthik as well across the 2 games, I think it has a lot to do with the low number of posters closely following Indian cricket here. And the slow batting didn't take Vijay, Karthik or India anywhere did it?

A massive 161 run defeat for India in the end. Ravindra Jadeja who top scored for them with an unbeaten 49, and Suresh Raina with a run-a-ball 33 where the only batsmen who showed any intent. The huge win rectifies Sri Lanka's net run rate, and also gives them a bonus point as well.

meaningless masala series.
india should have sent their A side here

Its only meaningless when you lose.

jimbohammers wrote:Its only meaningless when you lose.

yes that's "the evidence"

msp83 wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:imagine the state of meltdown these boards would be in if Bell and Trott had batted like Dhawan and Vijay did here

MFC, if Vijay has got away with it, or for that matter Karthik as well across the 2 games, I think it has a lot to do with the low number of posters closely following Indian cricket here. And the slow batting didn't take Vijay, Karthik or India anywhere did it?

it also has to do with the fact that even posters who don't necessarily follow Indian cricket per se, but would normally tune in to pretty much any (international) match, haven't bothered with this. Of course, that's because coming right off the back of the CT it ranks among the very most meaningless series of all time. I confess I only tuned in because I had nothing else to do. Anyway, forgive me my little joke re Trott and Bell, just thought it was mildly amusing to watch two Indians (of the country who gave us Azhar, Tendulkar, Laxman, Sehwag et al.) plodding along with no real idea of what they were doing.

PS: yes I know they gave us Gavaskar (he of the "bat 60 overs for 36 runs" as well...)

Anyway, today's rant. The other day if you remember I had a go at Ishant's fielding (couldn't help noticing that when they showed "highlights" of India's fielding lapses yesterday Ishant did figure with a rather dodgy effort to stop the ball at fine-leg )

Today I shall attack something that sits increasingly poorly with me: the tendency of sides batting first to get someone to substitute for one of their batsmen who made a big score. Yesterday we saw Jeethan Mendis (good fielder) on for Tharanga (not a great fielder (except at short-leg where he's pretty sharp) and had scored a big hundred). I'm going to admit: I hate this. I'm pretty sure players are only meant to be off the field if something's wrong with them? In any case, I would never give up my chance to be out in the field with my teammats just because I'd done my bit with the bat. It's also unfair as the team chasing can obviously not employ the same tactics.

I believe the practise started with the great Gloucestershire limited overs sides of the late 90s. They would fairly regularly, when defending a total, get someone to substitute for the rather old Kim Barnett. I'm sure they're many examples, but two spring to my mind, both fairly recent.

1) SA vs England 2012. Amla had smacked 150 or so, came out to field, badly misjudged one at third-man which span past him, and I seem to remember he fumbled at least one other. Promptly went off with a "bad back" not to be seen again in the game.

2) Sehwag after smashing that 200+ (can't remember who it was against). Didn't come out at all. Made doubly worse as he was captain that day. Does leading your country mean so little to him? Very disappointing.

As I said other examples probably exist, but to me it's something I'm not a fan of, at all, as it seems to give the side batting first an advantage. Notice that it's never someone who can bowl, or a very good fielder, who comes off. Should they think about changing things so that time off the field carries through to the following batting innings in any case? Any thoughts on this?