2013 Autumn Internationals

Just to get away from all of the Lions discussion for a while,thought I'd go for a different topic.

What teams would you like your respective countries put out in the AI's this year, Northern or Southern Hemisphere.

I'll start with Ireland.

1. Healy
2. Cronin
3. Bent
4. Henderson
5. O'Connell (c)
6. SOB
7. Henry
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Madigan
11. Zebo
12. Olding
13. BOD
14. Gilroy
15. Kearney

16. Strauss
17. Hagan
18. McAlister
19. Tuohy
20. POM
21. P Marshall
22. Jackson
23. Trimble

Leaving out Sexton as he will be in France.

Picking BOD because I'm certain Schmidt will pick him and would be good for the experience around a lot of young lads.

Leaving out Ferris as he will be In Japan but have heard rumours of a 6 month contract with Ulster apparently?

Henderson and Olding are two young players who have great first provincial seasons and I feel we need to give them the oppurtunity to step up to international level sooner rather than later!

This topic's like a breath of fresh air!

For England I really hope for a start that we can get the Autumn games without too many injuries. The lead up to the world cup starts here and I think we need to be getting our strongest team out there as much as possible. Here's what I'd go with:

1. Corbisiero
2. Youngs
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Parling (Potentially Attwood)
6. Wood
7. Robshaw
8. Morgan
9. Youngs
10. Farrell
11. Yarde
12. Twelvetrees
13. Tuilagi
14. Wade
15. Foden

16. Vunipola
17. Webber
18. Wilson
19. Attwood
20. Croft
21. Care
22. Burns
23. Brown/May/Eastmond can't really decide

Really like what I've seen of Eastmond and Tomkins and would love to find a home for them somewhere but struggling to do so. Also hope Ashton gets back to form as think he still has a lot to offer.

Looking forward to the games, NZ don't usually need motivation to smash us but they sure have it now!

1. Grant
2. Macarthur
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Swinson
6. Brown
7. Barclay / Rennie
8. Beattie
9. Laidlaw
10. Heathcote
11. Lamont
12. Scott
13. Dunbar
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

16. Ford
17. Welsh
18. Cross
19. Hamilton
20. Denton
21. Cusiter (if he doesn't fancy retiring to becoming a BBC pundit)
22. Horne
23. Visser

Something like that anyway. A lot of guys stood up in the quadrangular tournament Swinson being one of them.

Although for Australia if we have Rennie and Barclay fit I wouldn't mind seeing them team up again to make a mess of the Ozzie breakdown and deny them quick ball.

Ferris will not be in Japan, confirmed staying with Ulster to complete his rehab, but the same press release also confirmed he's missing the first four months of the season- this latest ankle injury will have had him out for over a year.

Michael Bent- seriously?

Grant
MacArthur
Murray
Gray
Swinson
Brown
Barclay/Rennie
Beattie
Laidlaw
Heathcote
Visser
Scott
Dunbar
Maitland
Hogg

Subs - Welsh, Ford, Low, Hamilton, Wilson, Jackson, Bennett

That's our strongest run-on XV at the moment. Shame for Horne that he'll be out for 9 months, and I'm not sure when Weir will be back either. Wilson covers the backrow better than Denton, and I think it's time we brought Bennett into the squad. Tough for S Lamont and Seymour, but hey ho.

Thought Denton looked hungry and dangerous against Italy though, he has a chance to set his stall out at Edinburgh this year.

Toadfish that is a dangerous looking England team, lots of pace and strike runners. Will be interesting to see whether Lancaster will go with out and out attackers like Yarde Wade Foden and 36 or will he stay true to Goode, Brown and Barritt. Lots of strength in depth anyway.

Also whether Robshaw will keep the captaincy or will he keep it with Tom Wood?

A lot of hope for the Scots this year, watched them in the Quad series and their attack was so much better than the 6N. Swinson,Scott,Dunbar, Strokosch and Seymour I thought played really well.

Did Peter Horne get a bad injury though?

Similar to Toadfish...

1. Corbisiero
2. Webber
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Attwood
6. Wood
7. Kvesic
8. Morgan
9. Youngs
10. Flood
11. Yarde
12. Twelvetrees
13. Tuilagi
14. Wade
15. Foden

16. Vunipola/Marler
17. Youngs
18. Wilson
19. Parling
20. Croft
21. Dickson
22. Burns
23. Brown

The big variable for me is what happens with Farrell. If he gets gametime at 10 for Sarries and continues to try and play flatter and more expansively (and does this well) I'd probably switch him for Flood but keep Burns on the bench. If we don't see more of that from him I'd go with the above.

Ulster12 wrote:Toadfish that is a dangerous looking England team, lots of pace and strike runners. Will be interesting to see whether Lancaster will go with out and out attackers like Yarde Wade Foden and 36 or will he stay true to Goode, Brown and Barritt. Lots of strength in depth anyway.

Also whether Robshaw will keep the captaincy or will he keep it with Tom Wood?

A lot of hope for the Scots this year, watched them in the Quad series and their attack was so much better than the 6N. Swinson,Scott,Dunbar, Strokosch and Seymour I thought played really well.

Did Peter Horne get a bad injury though?

Yeah, nasty ACL tear for Horne. Out for quite a while, hope he manages to come back soon though, he's been superb recently.

1 Healy
2 Best (Sherry)
3 probably still Ross
4 Henderson
5 Paulie
6 SOB
7 TOD/Henry
8 Heaslip/POM
9 Murray
10 Sexton/Madigan/Jackson
11 Zebo
12 Marshall
13 BOD
14 Bowe
15 Kearney

Main problems remain the same. No real replacement for Ross and BOD. Would like to see Olding at 13 for ulster in place of cave or even at 12 with Marshall at 13.

Plenty of depth in the backrow but it would be great to see a return of Ferris but I just can't see it.

Well stocked on wings with gilroy, Earls, Trimble, Fitzy and the younger lads behind Tommy and Zebo.

Toadfish wrote:This topic's like a breath of fresh air!

For England I really hope for a start that we can get the Autumn games without too many injuries.  The lead up to the world cup starts here and I think we need to be getting our strongest team out there as much as possible.  Here's what I'd go with:

1. Corbisiero
2. Youngs
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Parling (Potentially Attwood)
6. Wood
7. Robshaw
8. Morgan
9. Youngs
10. Farrell
11. Yarde
12. Twelvetrees
13. Tuilagi
14. Wade
15. Foden

16. Vunipola
17. Webber
18. Wilson
19. Attwood
20. Croft
21. Care
22. Burns
23. Brown/May/Eastmond can't really decide

Really like what I've seen of Eastmond and Tomkins and would love to find a home for them somewhere but struggling to do so.  Also hope Ashton gets back to form as think he still has a lot to offer.  

Looking forward to the games, NZ don't usually need motivation to smash us but they sure have it now!

Looks great. A 36 - Tuilagi axis could be devastating. Like to see Burns come off the bench for a decent amount of game time. Boy did we miss Morgan too!

I know Bent is seen as a bit of a joke Notch but what other tight heads do we have? I'd love to put McAllister in there but he missed all last season and will have to see how his form is after major surgery. Bent has scrummaged and carried well off the bench for Leinster and he's a lot younger than Mike Ross who we can't keep relying on for too much longer.

Need to get the young guys coming through.

Has Hagan not being the sub tight head for Leinster?

Holy SH1T I forgot about Bowe!!! Sorry lads,I'll replace Gilroy with him on the OP,eejit!!

For the future would like to see Bowe given some game time at 13,as I see him moving inside as he gets older using his footballing skills and good defence to replace BOD. Just like Umaga moved in from the wing to be an outstanding 13.

I'm all over this post. Breathe the pure air!

Conrad Smith will be taking a sabbatical. We have depth issues at centre, hooker, LH prop, lock and blindside flank.

I think it's time to blood TJ Perenara instead of Weepu, try Ben Smith at OC and give a chance to somebody other than Nonu at ic.

Luata needs a go at 6 and quite possibly McCaw. Vito Messam and Cane are a step down. Thrush is a big step down in the locks and Cole needs more time.

A mixture of youth and experience much like the past 2 domestic seasons needs to go on this tour. England should see our best possible team. Don't get their confidence up any more when they have a RWC at home the following year.

15 Kearney
14 Bowe
13 O'Driscoll
12 Marshall
11 Zebo
10 Sexton
9 Murray
8 Heaslip
7 O'Brien
6 Henderson
5 Ryan
4 O'Connell
3 Hagan
2 Best
1 Healy

Bench: Kilcoyne, Cronin, Ross, Touhy, O'Mahoney, Marshall, Madigan, Gilroy

...and that was only because Gatland was too conserv....................................

Oh sorry. Carry on

The Welsh are going to play Ireland's games for them this Autumn ...so curtains for the All Blacks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Would like to see Schmidt mix up the team slightly in the first two games culminating in our best team for NZ.

Henderson
Luke Marshall
Olding
Sherry
Hagan
Madigan/Jackson

To all get a start in one of the games. A decision might have to be made between Marshall and Olding mind you. Wouldn't mind seeing Zebo get a start at XV in a game too.

If I were picking a team I would like to see start against NZ and thus (by my logic) be our strongest team I would say

Healy, Best, Ross, Hendo, POC, OBrien, O'Donnell, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, Trimble/Gilroy/Earls, Olding, BOD, Bowe, Zebo

Toadfish wrote:This topic's like a breath of fresh air!

For England I really hope for a start that we can get the Autumn games without too many injuries.  The lead up to the world cup starts here and I think we need to be getting our strongest team out there as much as possible.  Here's what I'd go with:

1. Corbisiero
2. Youngs
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Parling (Potentially Attwood)
6. Wood
7. Robshaw
8. Morgan
9. Youngs
10. Farrell
11. Yarde
12. Twelvetrees
13. Tuilagi
14. Wade
15. Foden

16. Vunipola
17. Webber
18. Wilson
19. Attwood
20. Croft
21. Care
22. Burns
23. Brown/May/Eastmond can't really decide

Really like what I've seen of Eastmond and Tomkins and would love to find a home for them somewhere but struggling to do so.  Also hope Ashton gets back to form as think he still has a lot to offer.  

Looking forward to the games, NZ don't usually need motivation to smash us but they sure have it now!

Superb selection!

The only player missing form here who I think will be back in the England fold is Matthew Tait. I admit I'm really biased - I really rate Tait and always have, but I think he is the ideal bench option for England, able to cover 11, 13, 14, 15. He is/was on fire for Leicester and I think he is a genuinely class player who is getting better and better now injuries are hopefully a thing of the past (especially with Murphy around to coach!).

I was impressed with Webber and Morgan in Argentina too, though obviously the argies were not the best side that series...

A bench with Croft, Burns and Tait would be game changing in my view. You could easily chase a game if necessary, but they are all still solid defensively.

1 Crockett(25)
2 Coles (27)
3 O Franks (26)
4 S Whitelock (25)
5 Romano (27)
6 Luatua (22)
7 McCaw (32) (the best still)
8 Read (28)
9 A Smith (25)
10 Cruden (24)
11 Savea (23)
12 Nonu (31) (no choice)
13 B Smith (27)
14 Jane (30) (the best still)
15 Dagg (25)

16 Woodcock (36) (no choice)
17 Hore (35) (no choice)
18 Afeaki (25) (real potential)
19 Retalick (22)
20 Vito (26) (covering all 3 back roles)
21 Perenara (21)
22 Barrett (22)
23 Francis Saili (22)

Other players in the squad would be
B Franks, Motu Ma'atu, Dominic Bird, Luke Braid, Sam Cane, Piri Weepu, Ryan Crotty (getting desperate here), Charles Piutau,

Nice mix of age and youth in a squad of 31
Giving Carter and Conrad Smith a rest.
Wouldn't mind have more choice at hooker, loosehead, 2nd five and centre

I'm going to be brutal here okay. Just off the cuff stuff about niggles I'm having. Might change tomorrow but today this is how I see it:

Kearney. Big doubt about him at this stage. Always seems to be under the level needed at International (proving it again with the Lions) He'll need to really bed down into a more consistent performer at International level or we should be looking to replace. Let's see what Schmidt brings to him and the role.

Sexton. Back to Kearney or someone else. Should we try the experiment of not always thinking the fly-half has to kick for goal? Have another specialist (like Halfpenny) doing the kicks? Sexton is good but it's the part of his game that still tenses him (you can see it) He still has to think about it hard to get it all right and he seemed more free to just work on game management without the kicking duty for the Lions....when the Lions played a running game that is!!! (not either of the tests)

Just two things I've been thinking about.

screamingaddabs wrote:

Toadfish wrote:This topic's like a breath of fresh air!

For England I really hope for a start that we can get the Autumn games without too many injuries.  The lead up to the world cup starts here and I think we need to be getting our strongest team out there as much as possible.  Here's what I'd go with:

1. Corbisiero
2. Youngs
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Parling (Potentially Attwood)
6. Wood
7. Robshaw
8. Morgan
9. Youngs
10. Farrell
11. Yarde
12. Twelvetrees
13. Tuilagi
14. Wade
15. Foden

16. Vunipola
17. Webber
18. Wilson
19. Attwood
20. Croft
21. Care
22. Burns
23. Brown/May/Eastmond can't really decide

Really like what I've seen of Eastmond and Tomkins and would love to find a home for them somewhere but struggling to do so.  Also hope Ashton gets back to form as think he still has a lot to offer.  

Looking forward to the games, NZ don't usually need motivation to smash us but they sure have it now!

Superb selection!

The only player missing form here who I think will be back in the England fold is Matthew Tait.  I admit I'm really biased - I really rate Tait and always have, but I think he is the ideal bench option for England, able to cover 11, 13, 14, 15.  He is/was on fire for Leicester and I think he is a genuinely class player who is getting better and better now injuries are hopefully a thing of the past (especially with Murphy around to coach!).

I was impressed with Webber and Morgan in Argentina too, though obviously the argies were not the best side that series...

A bench with Croft, Burns and Tait would be game changing in my view.  You could easily chase a game if necessary, but they are all still solid defensively.

Tait for the bench is a great shout, was struggling for someone who's versatile but he'd be perfect if he keeps up his form from the end of last season.

Ulster12 wrote:Toadfish that is a dangerous looking England team, lots of pace and strike runners. Will be interesting to see whether Lancaster will go with out and out attackers like Yarde Wade Foden and 36 or will he stay true to Goode, Brown and Barritt. Lots of strength in depth anyway.

Also whether Robshaw will keep the captaincy or will he keep it with Tom Wood?

A lot of hope for the Scots this year, watched them in the Quad series and their attack was so much better than the 6N. Swinson,Scott,Dunbar, Strokosch and Seymour I thought played really well.

Did Peter Horne get a bad injury though?

I definitely see Wood as the captain long term but at the moment think it would be a bit harsh to take it off Robshaw who's given everything. Hopefully there will be a good opportunity to transition to him at some point a bit like Dallaglio to Johnson. Hopefully it won't involve the promise of being able to deliver illicit drugs and an undercover reporter though...

Looking at the backline again I'm wondering where the defensive captain is going to come from. Anyone know if Twelvetrees does this for Gloucester? Could Farrell do it from fly half?

Kia who are the options at 12 in NZ without Nonu?

Are the likes of Crotty,Willison or Tom Taylor ready to make the step up?

I'll answer that for you Ulster. These boys are not close really. That's why we've been desperate enough to talk about Carter at 12. Gee we miss SBW and Kahui. Francis Saili might make it but its a bit of a hit and hope right now.

We might be starting to see the effects of the huge numbers of players going off shore

I always thought crotty would make it after the JRWC at ravenhill. Freuan was the star of the tournament but I genuinely thought crotty showed so much potential in that tournament before he broke his leg.

The 12 for this years batch Michael Collins was pretty impressive.

Crotty's good alright and people have talked a little about him being an AB but no-ones signing petitions.

I know ngan. I haven't seen a massive amount of super rugby this year but I have always kept an eye on reports/stats for crotty. He seems to be firmly established at the Saders now at least doesn't he?

Doesn't seem to be the creative force I saw back in the youth teams. Dagg is the main one to come through from that year thought Poki, Afeaki and the aforementioned centres have done well

Just checked. Sam white lock and Sean maitland in there too

I still think Robshaw was the best flanker in the 6N. I went on a bit about Kelly Brown's tackling and turnovers and the same for Wood.

Robshaw though (even in that massacre in Cardiff) still was playing fantasticly. He tidies up so much bad ball, hits the rucks with intensity and also seems like a nice guy. However beneath that I think lies a player of deep intensity and IMO is one of the best England backrowers since Hill, Back and Dayglow.

I watch a lot of SR and I must admit I've always been very pressed with Crotty. He's not the most subtle in the world but he breaks a lot of tackles and has a good step.

Carter and Taylor seem to have reversed roles from last year haven't they?i remember Taylor at 10 with Carter at 10 coming back from injury at 12.

What about Colin Slade,is he playing well?

For me a lot depends on the form of Farrell and Ashton. If ashton is in form I thing with strike runners all through the team he could be just as dangerous as he was in 2011. I really want Wade to play though and both are right wingers.

Corbs
Webber
Cole
Attwood (if on form, if not Launchbury)
Parling
Croft
Robshaw
Morgan
Youngs
Farrell
Wade
36
Manu
Ashton
Foden

with a second XV of:

Marler
Youngs
Wilson
Launchbury
Lawes
Wood
Kvesic
Vunipola
Care
Burns
Yarde
Barritt
Eastmond
May
Brown

SecretFly wrote:I'm going to be brutal here okay.  Just off the cuff stuff about niggles I'm having.  Might change tomorrow but today this is how I see it:

Kearney.  Big doubt about him at this stage.  Always seems to be under the level needed at International (proving it again with the Lions)  He'll need to really bed down into a more consistent performer at International level or we should be looking to replace.  Let's see what Schmidt brings to him and the role.

Sexton.  Back to Kearney or someone else.  Should we try the experiment of not always thinking the fly-half has to kick for goal?  Have another specialist (like Halfpenny) doing the kicks?  Sexton is good but it's the part of his game that still tenses him (you can see it)  He still has to think about it hard to get it all right and he seemed more free to just work on game management without the kicking duty for the Lions....when the Lions played a running game that is!!! (not either of the tests)

Just two things I've been thinking about.

Kearney is international standard for me but he does have his dips in form and injury problems. I think the back 3 of Zebo, Gilroy and Bowe could give us an extra dimension in attack.

I also wouldn't mind seeing Sexton at 12 outside Madigan...don't see it happening though....

Rumours floating around SBW is signing another year with the Roosters. God I hope not as Carter does the damage at 10 not 12 just like Nonu can play 13 and wing but is less Of a defensive liability at 12 and is most potent in attack at 12. Crotty sounds like potty in comparison.

rodders wrote:15 Kearney
14 Bowe
13 O'Driscoll
12 Marshall
11 Zebo
10 Sexton
9 Murray
8 Heaslip
7 O'Brien
6 Henderson
5 Ryan
4 O'Connell
3 Hagan
2 Best
1 Healy

Bench: Kilcoyne, Cronin, Ross, Touhy, O'Mahoney, Marshall, Madigan, Gilroy  

This is pretty much the exact team I would like to see too.

Well there you go Rory, this is clearly the best team then!

I'm not totally convinced of Henderson at 6 (haven't seen that much of him in truth and O'Mahony is underrated by some without him, O'Donnell doesn't have half as good a season) and Hagan (that's more of a case of we have no feicing props but anyway). Be alright with the rest of it though.

Ireland don't rely on a classic 7 so we can get by.

Are you sure about BOD at centre Rory and rodders? Have you been watching the Lions?  

Why is there no support for Keith Earls on here? What has he ever done wrong?

He's been positionally faffed around like Fitzgerald and nobody can now quite remember what his best position really is.

Thomond wrote:Why is there no support for Keith Earls on here? What has he ever done wrong?

Thomond - If Earls can work on his awareness skills, I would love to see him at 13 after BOD. He is such a dangerous player but he needs to be more aware of his options outside him.

Thomond wrote:Why is there no support for Keith Earls on here? What has he ever done wrong?

How long have we got?

In all seriousness thou Earls needs to find a position. If Van Der Heever signs it looks like it is 13 but then he has to oust Laulala

BOD will be 13 (in the big games anyway) as we will most likely be bedding in a 12, be it Marshall, Olding or Madigan etc
Bowe will be on one wing and most likely Zebo the other unless Kearney is ousted. Gilroy and Trimble I would imagine are currently ahead of earls in the wing stakes. McFadden in the mix too

Was it not clear I was taking the mick? People are getting a bit serious with all this Lions lark. The Earls debate has been beaten to death and then buried, everyone has said the same thing about him 5 times over.

Emoticons Thomond. I never used to like them but if you want absolute certainty about the tone of your posts you can't go wrong.  

OK, most of the time.  

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:He's been positionally faffed around like Fitzgerald and nobody can now quite remember what his best position really is.

I do.. it's waterboy....

http://www.ticketmaster.ie/Ireland-tickets/artist/1056338

Plenty of good seats available for them. There is a triple ticket here for 140 inc charges.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Are you sure about BOD at centre Rory and rodders? Have you been watching the Lions?  

If only Jon O'Davies had an Irish granny....

It's hard to take most people from Ireland, not to mention Cork, serious tensions are high on the boards, so I suppose I should have made it clearer then!

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:http://www.ticketmaster.ie/Ireland-tickets/artist/1056338

Plenty of good seats available for them. There is a triple ticket here for 140 inc charges.

Good man Jen, hey do you know if you can bring a newborn in there or do they need their own seat....

Harsh... but fair, rodders.

Any chance of BOD making it to 2014 in an Irish jersey? Or 2015 RWC? With his sabbatical this week, it may give his aching bones some much needed rest.  

Toadfish wrote:This topic's like a breath of fresh air!

For England I really hope for a start that we can get the Autumn games without too many injuries.  The lead up to the world cup starts here and I think we need to be getting our strongest team out there as much as possible.  Here's what I'd go with:

1. Corbisiero
2. Youngs
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Parling (Potentially Attwood)
6. Wood
7. Robshaw
8. Morgan
9. Youngs
10. Farrell
11. Yarde
12. Twelvetrees
13. Tuilagi
14. Wade
15. Foden

16. Vunipola
17. Webber
18. Wilson
19. Attwood
20. Croft
21. Care
22. Burns
23. Brown/May/Eastmond can't really decide

Really like what I've seen of Eastmond and Tomkins and would love to find a home for them somewhere but struggling to do so.  Also hope Ashton gets back to form as think he still has a lot to offer.  

Looking forward to the games, NZ don't usually need motivation to smash us but they sure have it now!

Cracking looking side, and pretty much what I'd go for too.

My only possible change might be Kvesic in at 7, or on the bench to cover 6,7, and 8. I think the lad's got loads of potential, and is a real workhorse. 23 tackles in his debut is pretty ridiculous.