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My greatest Ashes XI

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Post by Hoggy_Bear Thu 04 Jul 2013, 12:04 pm

Inspired by Mike Selvey's article in the Guardian yesterday; http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2013/jul/03/england-greatest-ashes-xi give your greatest Ashes XI from players you've seen, based on their performance in that contest.
Selvey goes for:

Edrich
Cook
Vaughan(c)
Pietersen
Gower
Botham
Flintoff
Knott(wk)
Snow
Underwood
Willis

A very good side. But who else should be considered?
Chris Broad perhaps, who scored 3 centuries in the series in 1986/7?
Maybe Tony Greig, who had a good all-round record and is famous for signalling his own boundaries to the fury of Lillee and Thomsom in '74?
Graham Thorpe, perhaps, who averaged over 45 against the Aussies despite playing throughout his career against the Warne/McGrath axis?
How about the likes of Swann or Anderson. Are their records against the Aussies good enough to get them into this team?

Anyway, what would your teams be, and why would you pick the players you have.

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Post by Stella Thu 04 Jul 2013, 12:22 pm

M Taylor - thanks to 1989.
Hayden - 5 tons and at a rate.
Gower - 1985 saw Gower at his regal best.
Border - A lone ranger in 1985. Scored a few on other tours as well.
Pietersen - The 158 and two doubles.
S Waugh - Never forget his ton at Sydney, as well as loads of runs in England.
Botham - 1981.
Gilchrist - A brilliant double in 2001, and that ton at the WACA.
Warne - Constant tormentor.
Alderman - 1981 and 1989
McGrath - As above.

Difficult to leave out Punter, but wanted to even the team up a little.


Last edited by Stella on Thu 04 Jul 2013, 12:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Stella Thu 04 Jul 2013, 12:28 pm

Just thought. I done a combined one.....................doh!
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Post by Stella Thu 04 Jul 2013, 12:44 pm

England

Cook
Broad
Gower
Pietersen
Vaughan
Stewart
Botham
Flintoff
Gough
Swann
Hoggard
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Post by Stella Thu 04 Jul 2013, 12:57 pm

Australia

Taylor
Hayden
Ponting
Clarke
Border
S Waugh
Gilchrist
Warne
McGrath
McDermott
Alderman
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Post by Hoggy_Bear Thu 04 Jul 2013, 1:17 pm

Hoggard's a decent shout. Despite my name, I hadn't actually thought of him Doh 
How about Lillee, stella. If you saw Alderman did you not see Lillee? Or are you talking about the '89 vintage Alderman?

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Post by Stella Thu 04 Jul 2013, 1:32 pm

Never saw Lillee, live.

I was thinking the alderman of 1989, but had to mention 1981.

tbh, Botham only just gets in as I never saw the 1981 series. He played well enough in 1985 and 86/87 to get through.

Robin Smith was superb in 1989 also.
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Post by msp83 Thu 04 Jul 2013, 5:07 pm

Andrew Strauss
Alastair Cook
Michael Vaughan
Kevin Pietersen
Graeme Thorpe
Andrew Flintoff
Alec Stuart
Graeme Swann
Darren Gough
James Anderson
Matthew Hoggard

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Post by Guest Thu 04 Jul 2013, 5:15 pm


Mark Taylor
Don Bradman
Michael Vaughan
Kevin Piertesen
David Gower (c)
Ian Botham
Adam Gilchrist (wk)
Graeme Swann
Shane Warne
James Anderson
Glenn McGrath


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Post by msp83 Thu 04 Jul 2013, 5:28 pm

By the time I started following the game at large, the likes of Botham and Gower were done. After that, England had a rather difficult time of it for some time. But over the last edecade or so they've come a long way from that. Strauss has to be in there, considering he scored 2 important tons in the series of the century, then he was the batsman of the series in 2009, and made decent contributions up the top in 2011 where he led England to their first away Ashes win in 25 years. I think even if we go back to the 80s, Strauss should fit in above the likes of Chris Broad when we consider his overall record against Australia.
Among the other England openers I've seen, Marcus Trescothick and Michael Atherton were class acts, but Atherton had his well documented problems against McGrath and his more monumental battles came against the likes of Donald and South Africa, and as for Tresco, he had a pretty average series in 2002-3. I think Alastair Cook's efforts in 2011 has to see him through over and above them. Michael Vaughan batted like a dream in 02-3, and led England in the historic series in 05. Kevin Pietersen has a fine record against the Australians both home and away. Graeme Thorpe maintained a healthy average against a quality Australian bowling unit. Flintoff has certainly been an Ashes legend with bat and ball. Stuart has been part of many battles for England in different roles, with and without gloves, opening the innings or down the order. Phil Tufnell had his moments against Australia, Ashley Gyles, as usual was a fighter, and Monty Panaser made an immediate mark against them, but I would eventually go for Graeme Swann for his overall class and couple of very decent series performances. During England's troubled days, Darren Gough took the fight to the Australians. Matthew Hoggard played his part in 2005, and he was England's best bowler in the humiliation of 2006-7. James Anderson had a fine series last time round though his overall record against Australia isn't as good as it should be. But I don't think Angus Fraser, Andy Caddick, Steve Harmison, any of them have the record to challenge Jimmy. Simon Jones could have been a possibility but he didn't play much beyond that 2005 series, having got himself injured in 2002-3 as well.

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Post by msp83 Thu 04 Jul 2013, 5:35 pm

As for Australia,
Matthew Hayden
Justin Langer
Ricky Ponting
Michael Clarke
Steve Waugh
Mike Hussey
Adam Gilchrist
Shane Warne
Brett Lee
Stuart Clarke
Glenn McGrath

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Post by VTR Thu 04 Jul 2013, 6:05 pm

Started watching in 93, so my England side would be (and heavily biased towards recent success):

Vaughan (c) - for his performance in 2002/3 and captaincy in 2005
Cook - for his performance in 2010/11
Trott - ditto the above plus debut century in 2009
Pietersen - consistent performer, sometimes excellent since 2005
Thorpe - debut century in 93, nothing else stands out from memory but one of my favourite ever players!
Stewart (wk) - always seemed to do pretty well in a losing cause
Flintoff - 2005, enough said
Swann - no competition for this slot
Simon Jones - such a shame we never saw him again after 2005
Anderson - excellent in 2009 and 2010/11 proving the doubters wrong in the latter case
Tremlett - devastating in 2010/11

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Post by VTR Thu 04 Jul 2013, 6:10 pm

Aussies a bit more difficult because I used to go and do other things whilst they pummeled us in the 90's as watching it made me both sad and angry:

Slater
Hayden
Ponting
Mark Waugh
Mark Taylor
Steve Waugh
Gilchrist
Warne
Gillespie
Merv Hughes
McGrath

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Post by Nakatomi Plaza Thu 04 Jul 2013, 6:22 pm

First series I watched was 89 in England.

England

Strauss
Cook
Vaughan
Pietersen
Smith
Stewart
Flintoff
Swann
Gough
Jones
Anderson

Australia

Taylor
Hayden
Boon
Ponting
Steve Waugh
Mike Hussey
Gilchrist
Warne
Hughes
Alderman
McGrath

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Post by Corporalhumblebucket Thu 04 Jul 2013, 10:10 pm

Pleased to mention of Thorpe.  A fine player who really modified his playing style to suit England's needs when they were up against it, as they usually were!  Many of his half centuries were very valuable, on difficult pitches and/or against top class bowling.

Don't often see Edrich listed in a greatest ever Ashes team.  But he personified English gusty spirit.

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Post by sirfredperry Fri 05 Jul 2013, 11:08 am

From those I've seen:

ENGLAND

Boycott
Gooch
Dexter
May
Pietersen
Botham
Knott
Snow
Trueman
Underwood
Willis

Could easily do two or three teams from the ones I saw. Names, for England, that stand out include Graveney, Cowdrey, John Edrich, Flintoff, Gower, Thorpe, Strauss.

Most of my Australian team are latter-day players. Don't really see how anyone can leave Warne or McGrath out of ANY Aussie side

AUSTRALIA

Hayden
Taylor
Neil Harvey
Ponting
Mark Waugh
Steve Waugh
Gilchrist
Warne
Lee
McKenzie
McGrath

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Post by Fists of Fury Fri 05 Jul 2013, 11:14 am

Michael Clarke? Really? Has he ever done all that much in the Ashes that makes him a real standout?

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Post by Stella Fri 05 Jul 2013, 11:19 am

Fists of Fury wrote:Michael Clarke? Really? Has he ever done all that much in the Ashes that makes him a real standout?

At me?

He played well in 2005 and 2009
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Post by sirfredperry Fri 05 Jul 2013, 11:26 am

Worst England and Australian XIs might be fun, too. Reckon most of the poorest-performing Aussies would come from the most-recent period.

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Post by Stella Fri 05 Jul 2013, 11:34 am

The Aussie team of 1985, bar Border and McDermott might be a good place to start Very Happy 
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Post by Fists of Fury Fri 05 Jul 2013, 11:35 am

Stella wrote:
Fists of Fury wrote:Michael Clarke? Really? Has he ever done all that much in the Ashes that makes him a real standout?

At me?

He played well in 2005 and 2009

Well, but not enough to force himself in to this kind of side, surely?

Was at those that had mentioned him in general, not you alone.

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Post by Stella Fri 05 Jul 2013, 11:43 am

Fists of Fury wrote:
Stella wrote:
Fists of Fury wrote:Michael Clarke? Really? Has he ever done all that much in the Ashes that makes him a real standout?

At me?

He played well in 2005 and 2009

Well, but not enough to force himself in to this kind of side, surely?

Was at those that had mentioned him in general, not you alone.

Hussey would be the only player who could replace him, imo. Remember, it's from what you have seen.
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Post by Fists of Fury Fri 05 Jul 2013, 11:47 am

Yeah I'd probably go with Hussey. Bloody annoyance he was!

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Post by Stella Fri 05 Jul 2013, 11:51 am

He was. Maybe Boon. Scored plenty in 1993.

Think Clarke may get in your team after this summer Smile 
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Post by alfie Fri 05 Jul 2013, 1:04 pm

I am still thinking...it is a hard task to select just eleven...

Rather like Sir Fred's teams , though I would like to find a way to include Vaughan and Barrington in the England lineup, and could not agree to McKenzie (fine bowler though he was) or Lee in the Australian attack ahead of the great DK Lillee !

Bit surprised Selvey rates Edrich ahead of Boycott ...

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