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India in Zimbabwe and India A in South Africa 2013

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Post by msp83 Fri 05 Jul 2013, 7:04 pm

First topic message reminder :

There is yet some time for this series to take off, but just starting a thread well in advance. This certainly is not the most anticipated series this summer, neither is it a high profile series for that matter.
Yet there are a couple of things that make it an interesting one. Zimbabwe made a successful return to fullfledged return to international cricket in 2011, and have showed some good signes since, although the output hasn't been consistent. Unfortunately, this series does not include any test matches. But there are 5 ODIs, and the young Zimbabwe outfit would benefit from as much international exposure as possible. The other important thing is that it is India who are touring, meaning that Zc would get some much needed additional revenue.
The other thing is the Indian team itself. They have rested some senior players including skipper Mahendra Singh Dhoni and offspinner Ravichandran Ashwin. Seamers Umesh Yadav, Bhuvneshwar Kumar and Ishant Sharma are also rested. exciting youngster, J&K's offspinning all-rounder Parwez Rasool is given an opportunity. Haryana seamer Mohit Sharma has also found a place in the side. Cheteshwar Pujara is back in the ODI mix, and this time he should make his debut in all likelihood. Ajinkya Rahane is also back. Virat Kohli will be leading the side.
India squad: Virat Kohli (capt.), Shikhar Dhawan, Rohit Sharma, Dinesh Karthik, Cheteshwar Pujara, Suresh Raina, Ambati Rayudu, Ajinkya Rahane, Ravindra
Jadeja, Amit Mishra, Parvez Rasool, Shami Ahmed, R Vinay Kumar, Jaydev Unadkat, Mohit Sharma.


Last edited by msp83 on Fri 05 Jul 2013, 10:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by KP_fan Tue 13 Aug 2013, 7:54 am

there are 7 ODIs preceding the tests....we hope to get green seaming pitches atleast for the ODIs
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Post by msp83 Tue 13 Aug 2013, 11:12 am

So there could be a point to the 7 match ODI series after all!.
Not sure winter can make a pitch as flat and atrocious as this one is. Why don't they play somewhere where there are grounds of international quality? Do South Africa play international cricket on this road?

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Post by KP_fan Tue 13 Aug 2013, 11:16 am

msp83 wrote:So there could be a point to the 7 match ODI series after all!.
Not sure winter can make a pitch as flat and atrocious as this one is. Why don't they play somewhere where there are grounds of international quality? Do South Africa play international cricket on this road?

I also had the same question....but for now take my SA-specialist friends on face value.
The two 4 day tests are in Prettoria...the same venue where this triangular is being placed and Rustenberg.........never heard.....
neitehr is an international venue. Wonder why regular test match venues were not agreed by BCCI


yes the ODI series is invaluable these days as real competitive practise for test matches...with guarnateed batting and bowling chance...unlike the 2 day 15 a side charade practise games against SA invitation-XIs that are scheduled. where ou may or may not get to bowl or bat adequately...an the intensity of the games at best friendly

I juts hope we get good ptiches for the ODIs helping seamers
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Post by KP_fan Wed 14 Aug 2013, 12:20 pm

India tinker too much with the batting and played Saha as a specialist batsman today........and crashed to what is by the standard of the tournament a lowish total of 243.

Binny and Rahane were missed.

the lower middle order just fell apart...else even inspite of a bright start 270 was for the taking.

Rasool hasn't delivered much with the bat or the ball......but to be fair conditions have been apallling for bowlers...and hasn't had much opportunity to get set in these innings as a batsmen...althouhg he could've delivred a bit more today
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Post by KP_fan Wed 14 Aug 2013, 1:27 pm

Aus-A are 50-3 and Maxwell is gone after a brief flutter.

this is turning out to be a more "normal" game now.

Ind surprised Aus by opening with Raina and that was very effective
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Post by KP_fan Wed 14 Aug 2013, 3:50 pm

India win defending successfully and comprehensively their total by a margin of 50 odd runs.

a great season Indian cricket 2013....they need to cap to off with a solid show in SA in test matches......
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Post by msp83 Wed 14 Aug 2013, 7:45 pm

At last, we are freed from the garbage games and had a proper game of cricket, and glad to see India A emerging at the right end. The spinners doing the job for Pujara's side, Nadeem picking up 3 wickets, all the 3 spinners, Rasool, Nadeem and Raina who bowled their 10 overs, went at only close to 3. Would take such a game any day over the absolute garbages that characterized the earlier games. The only real novelty in the other games was that knock from Shikhar, even on such ridiculous tracks, scoring almost 250 in an ODI innings takes some doing. Hoping for some better pitches for the first class games.

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Post by KP_fan Thu 15 Aug 2013, 12:35 pm

Gambhir joins Essex....when Indian stars are out of the international side....Counties are the best rehabilitation option for them.

We are delighted with the signing of Gautam Gambhir who is a player with pedigree, which has been showcased on the biggest stages in cricket," Paul Grayson, the Essex head coach, said. "He will no doubt bring his experience to the squad during an important stage of the season for us in the LV County Championship and Yorkshire Bank 40 competition."
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Post by msp83 Thu 15 Aug 2013, 8:10 pm

Very good news re Gambhir. And Somerset are very close to a deal with Piyush Chawla as well.

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Post by ShankyCricket Fri 16 Aug 2013, 4:32 am

msp83 wrote:Very good news re Gambhir. And Somerset are very close to a deal with Piyush Chawla as well.
Very good news regarding Gambhir indeed! Not sure Chawla is particularly relevant. He's a fair way off the Indian team and rightly so.

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Post by ShankyCricket Sat 17 Aug 2013, 9:39 am

Raina playing ahead of Rayudu today in a first class match picard picard picard picard picard picard picard picard 

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Post by KP_fan Sat 17 Aug 2013, 9:51 am

as i was afraid...they dropped Rasool from the 11 in T1 today.
he could have been the first spinner in place of
Nadeem

OR

Rasool could have been playing as the 5th bowler / bowling allrounder in place of Raina.
It's hard to leavenr longer versio the proven misfit fo Raina out...orders fro his inclusions in the 11 come from the very top
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Post by KP_fan Sat 17 Aug 2013, 9:54 am

Dhawan and vijay are crawling at 1RPO after 13 overs
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Post by KP_fan Sat 17 Aug 2013, 3:46 pm

and Pujara takes to longer format of games like duck to water.

I have a suspicion that on the back of his ODI shows and now a good inning in A game...Rohit might usurp a middle order berth ahead of Rahame
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Post by msp83 Sat 17 Aug 2013, 5:32 pm

India A ending the day in control, 281-3. Captain Cheteshwar Pujara leading from the front with a fine hundred, and Rohit Sharma is batting on 70. Even the openers, Murali Vijay and Shikhar Dhawan spend some time at the wicket though Dhawan didn't make much and Vijay failed to kick on beyond 44. Ajinkya Rahane is not out on 11 and like Sharma, he has a chance to score big and put forward his claim for a middle order spot.
Hope Rasool gets an opportunity in the next game, so does Rayudu. If they both get an opportunity in the next game ahead of Raina and Nadeem, think that is fair enough as they all are the outlying fringe players and equal opportunities across the 2 games has to be fair.

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Post by ShankyCricket Sat 17 Aug 2013, 7:30 pm

KP_fan wrote:and Pujara takes to longer format of games like duck to water.

I have a suspicion that on the back of his ODI shows and now a good inning in A game...Rohit might usurp a middle order berth ahead of Rahame
He should. I rate him very highly in the longer format.

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Post by ShankyCricket Sat 17 Aug 2013, 7:34 pm

Can't really outrage much over Nadeem's selection over Rasool. Yes, Rasool does offer something with the bat and I'd have probably gone with him but Nadeem was far and away the best spinner in Ranji last season, so its hard to really argue against him.

Raina getting picked ahead of Rayudu, on the other hand, is a disgrace. Raina is a proven failure in Tests and he didn't even score runs on flat pitches in Ranji last season. Averaged 32. Rayudu averaged 60 last year, despite playing a lot of his matches at Moti Bagh, which assists seamers.

Anyway, Pujara reliable as ever and absolutely chuffed to see Rohit doing well.

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Post by ShankyCricket Sat 17 Aug 2013, 7:38 pm

msp83 wrote:India A ending the day in control, 281-3. Captain Cheteshwar Pujara leading from the front with a fine hundred, and Rohit Sharma is batting on 70. Even the openers, Murali Vijay and Shikhar Dhawan spend some time at the wicket though Dhawan didn't make much and Vijay failed to kick on beyond 44. Ajinkya Rahane is not out on 11 and like Sharma, he has a chance to score big and put forward his claim for a middle order spot.
Hope Rasool gets an opportunity in the next game, so does Rayudu. If they both get an opportunity in the next game ahead of Raina and Nadeem, think that is fair enough as they all are the outlying fringe players and equal opportunities across the 2 games has to be fair.
What do you think about Rohit now, msp? Ideally, he should play ahead of SRT but if he doesn't retire, then I'd bring him in at 6 with MSD at 7. 5 bowlers worked wonders at home but I'm not sure we need both Jadeja and Ashwin on SA pitches and an extra specialist batsman would be desirable against Steyn, Morkel and Philander on what could potentially be green top wickets. For the sole spinner, I'd go with Jadeja ahead of Ashwin, I think.

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Post by KP_fan Sat 17 Aug 2013, 8:42 pm

ShankyCricket wrote:Can't really outrage much over Nadeem's selection over Rasool. Yes, Rasool does offer something with the bat and I'd have probably gone with him but Nadeem was far and away the best spinner in Ranji last season, so its hard to really argue against him.

Raina getting picked ahead of Rayudu, on the other hand, is a disgrace. Raina is a proven failure in Tests and he didn't even score runs on flat pitches in Ranji last season. Averaged 32. Rayudu averaged 60 last year, despite playing a lot of his matches at Moti Bagh, which assists seamers.

Anyway, Pujara reliable as ever and absolutely chuffed to see Rohit doing well.
It seems to me that to the management and selectors Raina appears like one who can almost bowl as well as Rasool and a far better batting option.


when I see a 60+ average in FC  I do believe Rohit has the potential to play tests......he came darn close twice to make hsi debut
He's gotta grab his chances with both hands.......and make every inning count.
He is competing with Rahane for a middle order berth.
and to his advantage he gets ODIs to impress and has captain's backing
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Post by KP_fan Sun 18 Aug 2013, 9:36 am

msp83 wrote:India A ending the day in control, 281-3. Captain Cheteshwar Pujara leading from the front with a fine hundred, and Rohit Sharma is batting on 70. Even the openers, Murali Vijay and Shikhar Dhawan spend some time at the wicket though Dhawan didn't make much and Vijay failed to kick on beyond 44. Ajinkya Rahane is not out on 11 and like Sharma, he has a chance to score big and put forward his claim for a middle order spot.
Hope Rasool gets an opportunity in the next game, so does Rayudu. If they both get an opportunity in the next game ahead of Raina and Nadeem, think that is fair enough as they all are the outlying fringe players and equal opportunities across the 2 games has to be fair.
ha ha ...last night's rahane not-out has turned into Raina this morning.

scorers can't get it right between a RHB and a LHB
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Post by KP_fan Sun 18 Aug 2013, 9:56 am

ind and pak-u23 sides are locked in a tight finish.
indian seamers sandeep-s sharma and warrier retricted Psk.
chand anchored the chase.
last 10 odd overs ind is falling apart a bit.
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Post by KP_fan Sun 18 Aug 2013, 10:07 am

ashok Menaria batting at No. 8 smashes 19 runs in an over to release the presure and hopefully India will be throuhg
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Post by Gerry SA Sun 18 Aug 2013, 10:49 am

Gotta a quick question to MSP or KP Fan

Whilst it's still 4 months until the first Test in Durban, India's batting has two places up for grabs.

Dhawan Pujara Tendulkar Kohli and Dhoni must be a lock in.

So the second opener and where Jadeja plays at 7 as the all rounder.

Who's in pole position to open Rohit or Vijay?

I like Jadeja gives India more options.

Who will be the back up batsmen? Sehwag? Gambhir? Vijay/Rohit?

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Post by KP_fan Sun 18 Aug 2013, 11:30 am

here is the starting 11 as it will be

1) Dhawan
2) Vijay.....
3) Pujara
4) Tendulkar *
5) Kohli
6) Dhoni
7) Jadeja..
8) Ashwin.
9) B Kumar
10) Ishant*
11) Yadav

the ones with asterix * are the ones whre i would like to see
Tendulkar Replaced by Rahane or Rohit
and ishant replaced by Shami ahmed

India is certian to play jadeja as second spinner cum No. 7 batsman.
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Post by msp83 Sun 18 Aug 2013, 12:24 pm

Think in all likelihood, unless Sachin Tendulkar retires or injuries strike, the 11 put up by KPF is the one that would start the first test.
To Shanky,
I it wll take a great deal more for Rohit Sharma to convince me that his temperamental issues are behind him. Ability wasn't so much the question with Rohit, it was his temperament. By getting quite a few starts as ODI opener, he made a good beginning to recovery, but by failing to convert any of those into a substantial effort, the questionmarks over the temperament aspect remains.
I think I would go with both Ashwin and Jadeja for that first test and se on from there. Picking seam bowlers just for the sake of picking them won't work.
KPF and Shanky, what do you think of Zaheer's chances? If he's fit, I would take him over Ishant. Zaheer, Yadav and Bhuvneshwar, could be a very rounded attack. Bhuvi can swing the new ball, Zaheer is a master with the old ball besides being a terror for Graeme Smith at the top, and Yadav's pace can present a wickettaking option throughout. If Jadeja and Ashwin can keep things in control, the 5th bowler would mean the demands on Zaheer's aging body might just be manageable?

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Post by msp83 Sun 18 Aug 2013, 12:27 pm

As for the backup batsmen, Rohit, Rahane and one more opener might make the cut. Don't expect a 3rd spinner besides Ashwin and Jadeja. Ishant, Yadav and Kumar will make it, the rest of the seamers are all in with a chance to make the cut. Unadkat and Shami have a bit of a head start as of now.

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Post by KP_fan Sun 18 Aug 2013, 12:50 pm

Re: Zaheer...I already wrote somewhere on this thread...that we should take him and if fit for even one test and bolwing at full potential and rythm he is a potential match winner.
he is worth taking even for one test..and obviously he replaces Ishant.

and the FC season starts in late Sep with challenger.......if Zaheer's match fitness is proven, he is worth the try even for one test.

Re. Gambhir...if he finds form for Esesx and continues with his form at the start of FC season.....he might also be on tour of SA as the reserve opener

PS* rahane blows up an opportunity today while Rohit encashes his...
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Post by msp83 Sun 18 Aug 2013, 2:24 pm

And Raina too scores a ton.

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Post by LondonTiger Sun 18 Aug 2013, 3:22 pm

So if this top 6 is the second string, who would be India's first choice batting?

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Post by msp83 Sun 18 Aug 2013, 6:30 pm

LondonTiger wrote:So if this top 6 is the second string, who would be India's first choice batting?
In this lineup, Pujara has established himself in the test lineup, and Vijay and Dhawan have earned a few good opportunities through their performances. Rahane, Rohit and Raina are the 2nd string members who are pushing for a first choice opportunity.
Dhoni obviously and Kohli are the other in the first choice lineup besides Tendulkar who's career is getting ever so close to its end. Ravindra Jadeja has emerged as the all-rounder , 2nd spinner and 7th batsman in the side, but it remains to be seen whether they'll stick with that formulation in away conditions or go for an additional batsman.
Thus with Tendulkar nearing retirement and the flexibility of the number 7 position, there are a couple of middle order positions for which the likes of Rahane, Rohit, Raina and Rayudu are in contention

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Post by msp83 Sun 18 Aug 2013, 6:31 pm

Pujara, Dhawan and Vijay are send to South Africa with a view to give them some idea about conditions ahead of the year end tour.

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Post by ShankyCricket Sun 18 Aug 2013, 8:47 pm

msp83 wrote:Think in all likelihood, unless Sachin Tendulkar retires or injuries strike, the 11 put up by KPF is the one that would start the first test.
To Shanky,
I it wll take a great deal more for Rohit Sharma to convince me that his temperamental issues are behind him. Ability wasn't so much the question with Rohit, it was his temperament. By getting quite a few starts as ODI opener, he made a good beginning to recovery, but by failing to convert any of those into a substantial effort, the questionmarks over the temperament aspect remains.
I think I would go with both Ashwin and Jadeja for that first test and se on from there. Picking seam bowlers just for the sake of picking them won't work.
KPF and Shanky, what do you think of Zaheer's chances? If he's fit, I would take him over Ishant. Zaheer, Yadav and Bhuvneshwar, could be a very rounded attack. Bhuvi can swing the new ball, Zaheer is a master with the old ball besides being a terror for Graeme Smith at the top, and Yadav's pace can present a wickettaking option throughout. If Jadeja and Ashwin can keep things in control, the 5th bowler would mean the demands on Zaheer's aging body might just be manageable?
From what I've heard, Zaheer is all set to tour SA. I won't play both Jadeja and Ashwin though. I think it weakens our batting a bit too much to have MSD batting at 6 in SA conditions (I'm not criticising him, I think his record is perfectly fine as a wicketkeeper batsman but No.6 is the position of a specialist bat and I'm not sure he's good enough to play in the position of a specialist batsman in SA conditions. Especially when one of our top 5 is a guaranteed walking wicket (Tendulkar), going in with only 5 specialist batsmen is fraught with danger.

I'd go with

Vijay
Dhawan
Pujara
Tendulkar (because he won't be dropped)
Kohli
Rohit
Dhoni
Jadeja
Bhuvi
Zaheer
Umesh

Or

Vijay
Dhawan
Pujara
Kohli
Rohit
Dhoni
Jadeja
Ashwin
Bhuvi
Zak
Umesh


We can't play 5 bowlers if Sachin is one of the batsmen, no way.

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Post by KP_fan Sun 18 Aug 2013, 10:00 pm

We can't play 5 bowlers if Sachin is one of the batsmen, no way.
Shanky......your argument makes a LOT of sense  thumbsup

it's a catch 22 for India whichever way you look at it.
also given Zaheer's fitness and age....if he breaks down in the midst of first test as one of 3 seamers we are doomed.

It would make life easier for all if Tendulkar developed an "injury of convenience" during that series.

There may be a case of throwing Pathan in the mix as a 4 seamer who can bat if Zaheer is being played
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Post by ShankyCricket Sun 18 Aug 2013, 10:50 pm

Pathan would a bits and pieces selection, something which I am not really a fan of, even in the shorter formats, let alone Tests. He barely played Ranji last season. Missed most of the season due to injury, played the IPL and got injured again whilst warming the benches in the CT. Tumbleweed 

A big NO from me.

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Post by KP_fan Sun 18 Aug 2013, 11:04 pm

ShankyCricket wrote:Pathan would a bits and pieces selection, something which I am not really a fan of, even in the shorter formats, let alone Tests. He barely played Ranji last season. Missed most of the season due to injury, played the IPL and got injured again whilst warming the benches in the CT. Tumbleweed 

A big NO from me.
Pathan if fully fit is a left handed version of B. Kumar......bowls in the 130-135kph...swings it..l.and is good ld a place as a 3rd seamer alone.
PLUS is a useful batsman who can average 30sih with the bat.
India used him effectively as an allrounder to win in Perth in 2007-08 tour.
the indian domestic season starts in Sep and he will have a good 2 months to build his fitness and form.
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Post by ShankyCricket Sun 18 Aug 2013, 11:27 pm

Can't see Irfan being effective first change tbh, esp with the Kookaburra ball. We must pick our best new ball bowlers. Bhuvi is not in the side because he can bat but because he's our best new ball bowler. Irfan clearly isn't. So just because they both bat a bit and bowl at a similar pace doesn't mean they are similar. Bhuvi is a far better bowler than Pathan and definitely walks into the side purely as a bowler even if he couldn't bat. Not sure you can say that about Irfan. His (Irfan's) batting has declined too. I'd go with Zak, Bhuvi and Umesh as first choice with Ishant probably in reserve to play only if the pitch really suits him. The other seam bowling reserve should obviously come from this A squad - otherwise it makes it a bit pointless to pick them for the A tour. Unadkat probably has a head start given his impressive show in the ODIs in Zim and cos he has toured SA before (even if his debut was rather forgettable) but that could change if Pandey, Shami or Kaul (if he gets a chance in the second match) outbowl him. I'd have liked to see them consider Praveen Kumar too but that ain't happening sadly.

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Post by KP_fan Mon 19 Aug 2013, 10:34 am

Dumminy said yesterday that there is something in the pitch for the seamers...and Indian seamers are chipping away....wicket a piece.

it's s shame that CI lists them as Medium pacers when Pandey and Ahmed are clearly in the 135-140+ range and Undakat in the 130-135kph range
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Post by KP_fan Mon 19 Aug 2013, 10:51 am

Nadeem is taking a lot of stick....going at 5.5 RPO at this point after his 9 overs...but in comes Raina and gets a wicket.

So Jit's looking adeja and raina will be India's 2 spinners in tests overseas Smile
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Post by KP_fan Mon 19 Aug 2013, 11:04 am

Nadeem strikes and SA are now on the mat 115-5.....long way to avoid a follow-on..and given that it's a 4day game...India should enforce should they get a chance to
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Post by msp83 Mon 19 Aug 2013, 11:54 am

Good bowling from the India A unit so far. Unadkat has enhanced his stature in the course of this tour, and a good start to the domestic season might just be the extra push to a test recall.

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Post by msp83 Mon 19 Aug 2013, 11:58 am

As for Pathan, the lack of accuracy makes him a different proposition from Bhuvneshwar Kumar who has emerged as a quality new ball bowler. Irfan's pace has dropped and doesn't have the Praveen/Bhuvi like consistency with line or length. Unless he has a super start to the domestic season, it is very difficult for him to get back into the test frame.
If Zaheer is playing, then I think both Jadeja and Ashwin should be in. Ideally, a seam bowling all-rounder could have come in for him, but I don't think Pathan is not quite there at the moment, and I don't think Stuart Binny is quite test class. HP's Rishi Dhawan is the only other option who can be considered for that position but even his game needs further development. Perhaps they should have given him an opportunity at least with the side playing the New Zealand games?

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Post by ShankyCricket Mon 19 Aug 2013, 12:21 pm

Even if Rishi Dhawan has a stormer of a start to the season, can't see him being considered for this tour. Needs one more season IMO but a prospect for sure.

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Post by ShankyCricket Mon 19 Aug 2013, 12:28 pm

msp83 wrote:As for Pathan, the lack of accuracy makes him a different proposition from Bhuvneshwar Kumar who has emerged as a quality new ball bowler. Irfan's pace has dropped and doesn't have the Praveen/Bhuvi like consistency with line or length. Unless he has a super start to the domestic season, it is very difficult for him to get back into the test frame.
If Zaheer is playing, then I think both Jadeja and Ashwin should be in. Ideally, a seam bowling all-rounder could have come in for him, but I don't think Pathan is not quite there at the moment, and I don't think Stuart Binny is quite test class. HP's Rishi Dhawan is the only other option who can be considered for that position but even his game needs further development. Perhaps they should have given him an opportunity at least with the side playing the New Zealand games?
Maybe but we can't pick Sachin as one of the only 5 batsmen.

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Post by msp83 Mon 19 Aug 2013, 1:24 pm

Duminy and Ontong putting up a fight for SA A.

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Post by msp83 Mon 19 Aug 2013, 1:32 pm

Ishwar Pandey gets Ontong as he was building a solid partnership with JP Duminy. SA A are 196-6 at the moment.

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Post by KP_fan Mon 19 Aug 2013, 4:01 pm

SA are 8 down and Pandey has 4 of those wickets.....on a pitch where India piled up 600ish.

This will defnitely get him noticed.
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Post by KP_fan Mon 19 Aug 2013, 4:17 pm

and they lose Duminy in the last over.....follow.on staring them in the face....I suspect India might bat 40 to 50 odd overs
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Post by msp83 Mon 19 Aug 2013, 8:42 pm

Good performance from Ishwar Pandey, good build up after a good last domestic season. Raina outbowling Nadeem it has to be said as well.
For South Africa, the good sign is from JP Duminy. Not only has he batted well, but also bowled 18 overs and was pretty successful with the ball as well. South Africa might be looking to him to take more of a batting all-rounder role and more performances on these lines should see him getting back that number 7 position in the South African lineup.

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Post by KP_fan Tue 20 Aug 2013, 8:10 am

Rahul and Chand again get runs and suraj yadav plays a blinder for Ind-u23 to get 268...whihc I still think is not big enouhg considering that opponent is Nepal u23

Menaria who won us the last game when it got tight......is batting too low
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Post by ShankyCricket Tue 20 Aug 2013, 10:27 am

Its Suryakumat Yadav, KPF. The future does look very bright.

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