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The Ashes: 1st Test, Trent Bridge

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Post by Pal Joey Fri 12 Jul 2013, 1:02 pm

First topic message reminder :

England:
Alastair Cook*, Joe Root, Jonathan Trott, Kevin Pietersen, Ian Bell, Jonny Bairstow,
Matt Prior†, Stuart Broad, Graeme Swann, Steven Finn, James Anderson

Australia:
Shane Watson, Chris Rogers, Ed Cowan, Michael Clarke*, Steve Smith, Phil Hughes,
Brad Haddin†, Peter Siddle, Mitchell Starc, James Pattinson, Ashton Agar
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Post by Carrotdude Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:22 pm

It's hard to be too annoyed at Matt Prior but I wish he hadn't done that Sad

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:22 pm

Broad started of similar to agar for my money(not quite as good)- but he does have skillz..

a 50 partnership will be nice

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Post by kingraf Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:22 pm

Super Siddle!!
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Post by Duty281 Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:24 pm

Bairstow was out at absolutely the right time. Prior was then allowed to cash in for a while with the new ball.

Now, Bell needs to weigh anchor (thank the Lord for DRS), and let Broad and Swann cause carnage at the other end. When the latter two are inevitably out after a short, sharp innings, Bell can comfortably bat with the tail.

Lead up to 154 now, 65 more to reach the 220 mark - surely too much for Australia on a crumbling pitch, with Jimmy reversing it, and Swann turning it square?

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Post by trebellbobaggins Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:28 pm

Azzy Mahmood wrote:Trebs your logic astounds me. Australia struggled to 117-9 and you think a target that's currently 153-6 is 'game over'? Madness.
Christ yes. they will be Wee weeing themselves at this tiny chase and all the time in the world.

they have every right for the old smug aussie to come back though, one young kid has changed their fortunes.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:28 pm

Duty281 wrote:Bairstow was out at absolutely the right time. Prior was then allowed to cash in for a while with the new ball.

Now, Bell needs to weigh anchor (thank the Lord for DRS), and let Broad and Swann cause carnage at the other end. When the latter two are inevitably out after a short, sharp innings, Bell can comfortably bat with the tail.

Lead up to 154 now, 65 more to reach the 220 mark - surely too much for Australia on a crumbling pitch, with Jimmy reversing it, and Swann turning it square?

needed to be 320 at least.

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Post by kingraf Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:29 pm

Surely

Laugh

You might be right, mind...
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Post by hodge Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:29 pm

Bloody hell its negative on here! Everyone seems to forget if Agar had gotten out early the Aussies would have been all out for around 120 and currently the lead is 155. If we can get it past 200 and close to 250 then its very much game on for me, Aus had as long as they wanted to bat in the first innings and were for 9 quickly.

Swann will have a big say on the 2nd innings and this game is far from over.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:30 pm

Broad is going to raise agar .

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Post by Hibbz Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:30 pm

Despite what we've been told and led to believe will happen has anyone actually seen any evidence that the picture is crumbling and will be turning square for Swann?

Even if England bat for another 30 overs and make another hundred odd will the pitch change that much in that length of time?

I'm not doubting England's ability to bowl the Aussies out cheaply but I've seen no evidence that the pitch is going to be the huge help we're hoping for.


Last edited by Hibbz on Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by alfie Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:30 pm

Hmm. I would take a 220 lead Duty...not sure they can get there though.
The surface does seem to be getting harder to bat on , judging by the struggle of everyone bar Prior and KP to hit it off the square today...so maybe there is hope yet...

Hope Broad is up for bowling a proper spell ...he should suit this pitch.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:31 pm

I try not to think about it, but if the 3rd umpire gave Agar out for the stumping, the lead would be past 300 now and England would be cruising to a 1 nil lead. Sad

50 for Bell. clap

6,000 Test Runs as well. clap 

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Post by Scrumpy Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:33 pm

Ding dong
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Post by Hibbz Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:33 pm

Well played Mr Winklechops. ha ha nice one swear filter, that's a great nickname for Bell.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:34 pm

Hibbz wrote:Despite what we've been told and led to believe will happen has anyone actually seen any evidence that the picture is crumbling will be turning square for Swann?

Even if England bat for another 30 overs and make another hundred odd will the pitch change that much in that length of time?

I'm not doubting England's ability to bowl the Aussies out cheaply but I've seen no evidence that the pitch is going to be the huge help we're hoping for.

 I think the point's are 1) hardly any runs have been made anyway and only a 1000/1 shot got Oz to 280 in the first place.2)  England have the more expereinced and better* bowlers, 3) the pitch may not completely deteriorate but it surely will get worse even if only marginally.

I havent checked the current odds but i would suggest that it is evens for both at the moment

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Post by Guest Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:34 pm

I think England could declare now and still win the game, that's how confident I am with our bowling against their batting.

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Post by alfie Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:35 pm

I don't think the pitch is a spitting cobra , Hibbz . But it is clear that stroke making is far from easy on it , and getting harder.

So even a modest target might take a fair while to get , which gives pressure time to build...

The odd ball does do a fair bit for the spinner ...Haddin , Cook , both surprised by spin/bounce. Only the odd ball though , it is true.

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Post by hodge Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:36 pm

Hibbz wrote:Despite what we've been told and led to believe will happen has anyone actually seen any evidence that the picture is crumbling and will be turning square for Swann?

Even if England bat for another 30 overs and make another hundred odd will the pitch change that much in that length of time?

I'm not doubting England's ability to bowl the Aussies out cheaply but I've seen no evidence that the pitch is going to be the huge help we're hoping for.

Agar is getting it to do enough out of the rough and Swann is a better bowler, considering the amount of left handers Aus have as well I expect Swann will have a big part to play.

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Post by dummy_half Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:38 pm

From where we are at the moment, with only one specialist batsmen and the bowlers I'd quite happily take a lead of 220. WHille it wouldn't put the Aussies out of the game, it would present a challenge. Means we need at least 60 more from now.

It seems to be a funny wicket, a bit like one of the ones we played NZ on - difficult to get started and difficult to play with much fluency, but one where not many of the batsmen are being got out by devilishly good bowling, more by making mistakes (Cook an exception - good ball and excellent catch)

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Post by Carrotdude Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:40 pm

Record chase here is 284 is it not? First target is 200 which gives us a bit of a chance, after that  every run is a bonus in my book and if we could manage 250 I'd make us favourites. Need Broad to knuckle down and play sensibly but try and score when possible. Swann too.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:42 pm

i think 230 would put us on a knife edge. under OZ, over Eng

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:43 pm

Watsons figures!!!!!

Oh my days.. outstanding control

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Post by Duty281 Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:43 pm

Lead of 165 at tea, 6 down. Credit to Ian Bell, who has really dug in here for what could be a crucial half-century.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:46 pm

Good play from england in fairness. I think they have done pretty well under the spot light. Aus have also handled this adequately.. Cant split the teams yet

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Post by Hibbz Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:48 pm

I agree with everyone saying that the pitch is tough to score on and that Swann will be a big threat but is there any evidence so far of the uneven bounce and unplayable spin associated with fifth day pitches of the past?

England have every chance of bowling Australia out cheaply but I think it will be more down to their skill and the batsmen's deficiencies than a crumbling pitch and I'm just hoping we're not pinning our hopes on it occurring between now and when Australia bat.

Another split session. What odds the tie?

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:49 pm

well this wont go to the 5th day. Thats the problem.

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Post by seanmichaels Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:51 pm

Hibbz wrote:I agree with everyone saying that the pitch is tough to score on and that Swann will be a big threat but is there any evidence so far of the uneven bounce and unplayable spin associated with fifth day pitches of the past?

England have every chance of bowling Australia out cheaply but I think it will be more down to their skill and the batsmen's deficiencies than a crumbling pitch and I'm just hoping we're not pinning our hopes on it occurring between now and when Australia bat.

Another split session. What odds the tie?

Not so much uneven More 2 paced which is why they're finding it difficult to score quickly, which in turn creates pressure and then wickets

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Post by Pal Joey Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:51 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Watsons figures!!!!!

Oh my days.. outstanding control

I'm sure Clarke would like to bowl him more... tie down the scoring and force an error but he's also got to weigh up the possibility of another calf strain or some part of his Adonis physique malfunctioning. You can imagine how frustrating it is for us.

As a league coach said about a big NRL player (T-Rex, Tony Williams) who was under-performing. "I'd take him to a mirror and tell him to have a good, long hard look at himself and ask him what is your #@%! problem?"

That mightn't work with Watto though. He's so bloody vain... Wink
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Post by kingraf Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:56 pm

Good looking bloke though....
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Post by Hibbz Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:56 pm

seanmichaels wrote:
Hibbz wrote:I agree with everyone saying that the pitch is tough to score on and that Swann will be a big threat but is there any evidence so far of the uneven bounce and unplayable spin associated with fifth day pitches of the past?

England have every chance of bowling Australia out cheaply but I think it will be more down to their skill and the batsmen's deficiencies than a crumbling pitch and I'm just hoping we're not pinning our hopes on it occurring between now and when Australia bat.

Another split session. What odds the tie?

Not so much uneven More 2 paced which is why they're finding it difficult to score quickly, which in turn creates pressure and then wickets

For sure but the point I'm trying to make is that England aren't going to have the large advantage because Australia are going to be batting last that people were taking for granted (some still are) earlier in the match.

Or at least I've seen no evidence so far.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 12 Jul 2013, 3:58 pm

well we could get lucky Hibbz- it could be overcast on day 4- which could make it very hard for aus(but benefiting Jimmy over swann)

I honestly think this pitch would be very hard to bat on day 5, but as it wont last that long we wont know.

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Post by kingraf Fri 12 Jul 2013, 4:00 pm

Watson giving me an idea of how massive Kallis is in our greater plans. Essentially twelve players in the line-up, a lightened load for the strike bowlers, runs in the bank.
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Post by Duty281 Fri 12 Jul 2013, 4:01 pm

So, final session of day 3. 34 overs left in the day. Good chance that England will be bowling at some stage tonight.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 12 Jul 2013, 4:01 pm

Watson with those figures but bolwing light reminds me so much of flinty..

proper all rounder clearly.

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Post by Pal Joey Fri 12 Jul 2013, 4:01 pm

Just saw the weather forecast for tomorrow. They are saying 26°C, 20% chance of rain so that should help our batting. Less reverse swing for Jimmy?... but more drying out and breaking up of the pitch for Swanny.
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Post by Hibbz Fri 12 Jul 2013, 4:03 pm

kingraf wrote:Watson giving me an idea of how massive Kallis is in our greater plans. Essentially twelve players in the line-up, a lightened load for the strike bowlers, runs in the bank.  

Definitely be a decent race to the buffet table. Gatting would still be there first mind you.

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Post by Hibbz Fri 12 Jul 2013, 4:06 pm

Woohoo that one kept low. Lump on England. Four for Broadus as well. Looking better by the ball.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 12 Jul 2013, 4:06 pm

Couple of balls staying low; there's a bit of misbehaviour in this pitch.

4 more to Broad, lead rolls past 170.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 12 Jul 2013, 4:07 pm

run 4!

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Post by dummy_half Fri 12 Jul 2013, 4:08 pm

LB

In England the ball tends to reverse swing more on hotter drier days because the ball surface gets scuffed up more - conventional swing usually needs a bit of cloud cover (although still tends to be better on slightly warmer days).

Actually, Trent Bridge is a bit of an odd ground, as sometimes you get a bit of new ball conventional swing even without cloud cover - the presence of a fairly big river immediately next to the ground means there tends to be a bit of humidity.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Fri 12 Jul 2013, 4:25 pm

just saw this on 606.
"For all those Pommie optimists, thinking 220 will do it...have you already forgotten about a certain tailender in the Aussie team?"

doesn't take long for the old Aussie swagger to return does it.

but he's right, they have it.

at least eng have done something. one young man was the difference. imagine the lead now without young Swaggers.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 12 Jul 2013, 4:26 pm

Broad needs to relax or get of strike. good little partnership but he is getting away with a lot

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Post by trebellbobaggins Fri 12 Jul 2013, 4:27 pm

average 4th here is 149.

crazy. so take that and double it to account for Swaggers and maybe 280 is what you need.

is that the ground breaking up combined with the swinging conditions?

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Post by Duty281 Fri 12 Jul 2013, 4:28 pm

Agar can't do it twice in a row. England won't underestimate this time round, thinking 'we can put our feet up in a minute'. Agar won't make more than 20 in the second innings.

As for England currently, lead up to 195. Broad looking comfortable against the spinner without DRS.

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Post by kingraf Fri 12 Jul 2013, 4:29 pm

Trebell - mate Im beginning to think maybe the Ashes isnt good for your health
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Post by trebellbobaggins Fri 12 Jul 2013, 4:30 pm

oh it really isn't Kingr.

I've had the day off and i'm playing a pc truck simulator to try to ease my nerves.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 12 Jul 2013, 4:41 pm

The thing in englands favour is time is irrelevant.

SW's maidens would normally hurt alot more if time was an issue.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Fri 12 Jul 2013, 4:41 pm

True roakey, you don't need to feel bogged down as it's utterly unimportant.

is it really due to be cloudy there tomorrow? it is scorching down here again.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 12 Jul 2013, 4:43 pm

Broad and Bell are batting. Actually, properly batting. Doing in in style and relative comfort as well, despite a couple of edges. This is a far cry from the ODI-style we went with in the first innings.

Lead up to 200. clap 

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Post by KP_fan Fri 12 Jul 2013, 4:44 pm

the pitch is easy...cloud cover ain't there....ealry start of serie snerves have eased.
Aus got to 280 INSPITE of the failutre of the top order.......and that they will püretty much because a few of the 11 batters will score.
so Eng need to cross 300 to feel they have a grip on game
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