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The Ashes: 1st Test, Trent Bridge - Final Day & Post Match Discussions

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Post by Pal Joey 14.07.13 13:04

First topic message reminder :

England:
Alastair Cook*, Joe Root, Jonathan Trott, Kevin Pietersen, Ian Bell, Jonny Bairstow,
Matt Prior†, Stuart Broad, Graeme Swann, Steven Finn, James Anderson

Australia:
Shane Watson, Chris Rogers, Ed Cowan, Michael Clarke*, Steve Smith, Phil Hughes,
Brad Haddin†, Peter Siddle, Mitchell Starc, James Pattinson, Ashton Agar


Last edited by Linebreaker on 14.07.13 13:26; edited 1 time in total
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Post by mystiroakey 14.07.13 17:28

A new trebello!!!!

Interesting times..

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Post by ChequeredJersey 14.07.13 17:33

Whose our third Saffa player?
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Post by trebellbobaggins 14.07.13 17:33

ok, here we go.

How do I see this series?

Finely balanced.  A very young and promising young Australia have come here quite unfancied but proven they have a lot to be confident about and huge promise for the future.  Some very promising young seamers, a young spinner who looks a genuine all-rounder and some good batting from 1-11.

An England team with more experience but also experimenting with youth was perhaps a little over-rated due to their Indian exploits but with a world class main seamer and spinner and some decent back-ups and some decent though not entirely convincing batting options down the order.

England have sneaked this but I think this will be a tightly contested series.  we are bound to get at least one draw through rain, so 2-2 could be a very real possibility as I think the strengths and weaknesses of both means we won't see any 5 days draws.

whoever wins it, it will have been close.

oh but Ian Botham needs to show more respect for Aussie and I hope and think he will now.  These boys are no mugs.

And Dayle Steyn is the best seamer in the world but Anderson is a fine bowlers himself.


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Post by Hoggy_Bear 14.07.13 17:33

ChequeredJersey wrote:Whose our third Saffa player?

Presume he means Prior

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Post by GloriousEmpire 14.07.13 17:33

I'm just mourning the game of gentlemen. If only some of the players showed the spirit of my previous posting colleague

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Post by mystiroakey 14.07.13 17:34

GloriousEmpire wrote:I'm just mourning the game of gentlemen. If only some of the players showed the spirit of my previous posting colleague

 who you talking about?

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Post by kingraf 14.07.13 17:35

alfie wrote:I presume Border means he thinks Anderson is capable of producing an even better quality performance than Steyn at this time...but as you point out Steyn isn't in the middle of a Test series at the moment so how could you tell ?
Look it comes down to an opinion ...but the key point is that their respective records over many years are not the issue here , as Border is talking about the present day. And as I keep saying , I don't quite agree with him...

Just that the comparison is not as absurd as many South African fans seem to think. Which is all I am really saying...

I think that what really annoys me... For some reason, Steyn's (and to a degree Philander) just don't seem to get their just.

Like you said, there is a possibility what AB meant is that he thinks that Anderson is capable of putting together a better quality performance than Steyn... That's conveniently forgetting that Dale took 6/8 vs Pakistan, or that fiver vs England... Its the same with the South African attack as a whole... In a 14 month period, we bowled three teams out for sub-50. And yet there were pundits suggesting that could be down to favourable conditions and under-par batsmen, as if any other country is doing that...

But like Mystir said, the Ashes is on right now, we can discuss this at length next year... Since we can only discuss the Ashes during the Ashes, and it will be on until January, at which point its SAvAus, which will go on until March, so Jimmy vs Dale discussions will be on hold until April 2014.
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Post by Duty281 14.07.13 17:35

GloriousEmpire wrote:I'm just mourning the game of gentlemen. If only some of the players showed the spirit of my previous posting colleague

I know. Disgraceful that Clarke and Haddin didn't walk after clearly edging the ball.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear 14.07.13 17:35

GloriousEmpire wrote:I'm just mourning the game of gentlemen.

Bit late.
The 'game of gentlemen', if it ever really existed, died decades ago.

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Post by GSC 14.07.13 17:35

Fantastic test.

Felt as though Australia out played England, but England just had too much quality in the end.

Not a vintage England performance by any means. Too many batsmen got starts and failed to capitalise. Anderson was excellent, Swann and Broad good, Finn poor. A few posters gloating and poking fun at those who felt he lacked control after his opening burst on day 1. Might survive through to his home test, but another poor performance there will see him under immense pressure.

For Australia, they showed plenty of grit and determination. Never really allowed England to get a firm grip on the game. But in the end they just left themselves too much to do. Relying on the last wicket to put on a big partnership won't win many tests.

Australia will take heart that they showed this series won't be a walkover, England that they managed to win while not at their best. Set up nicely.
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Post by mystiroakey 14.07.13 17:36

trebello not bad i suppose..Very Happy

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Post by GSC 14.07.13 17:36

If conditions favour him, Anderson is the best bowler in the world for me, and hes pretty good without conditions too.

But Steyns the better all round bowler for me.
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Post by Duty281 14.07.13 17:38

kingraf wrote:
alfie wrote:I presume Border means he thinks Anderson is capable of producing an even better quality performance than Steyn at this time...but as you point out Steyn isn't in the middle of a Test series at the moment so how could you tell ?
Look it comes down to an opinion ...but the key point is that their respective records over many years are not the issue here , as Border is talking about the present day.  And as I keep saying , I don't quite agree with him...

Just that the comparison is not as absurd as many South African fans seem to think.  Which is all I am really saying...

I think that what really annoys me... For some reason, Steyn's (and to a degree Philander) just don't seem to get their just.

Like you said, there is a possibility what AB meant is that he thinks that Anderson is capable of putting together a better quality performance than Steyn... That's conveniently forgetting that Dale took 6/8 vs Pakistan, or that fiver vs England... Its the same with the South African attack as a whole... In a 14 month period, we bowled three teams out for sub-50. And yet there were pundits suggesting that could be down to favourable conditions and under-par batsmen, as if any other country is doing that...

But like Mystir said, the Ashes is on right now, we can discuss this at length next year... Since we can only discuss the Ashes during the Ashes, and it will be on until January, at which point its SAvAus, which will go on until March, so Jimmy vs Dale discussions will be on hold until April 2014.

Can't wait for South Africa v Pakistan in the UAE in October. Anderson bowled very well in the UAE last time round, Steyn didn't. #interesting

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Post by Duty281 14.07.13 17:39

trebellbobaggins wrote:ok, here we go.

How do I see this series?

Finely balanced.  A very young and promising young Australia have come here quite unfancied but proven they have a lot to be confident about and huge promise for the future.  Some very promising young seamers, a young spinner who looks a genuine all-rounder and some good batting from 1-11.

An England team with more experience but also experimenting with youth was perhaps a little over-rated due to their Indian exploits but with a world class main seamer and spinner and some decent back-ups and some decent though not entirely convincing batting options down the order.

England have sneaked this but I think this will be a tightly contested series.  we are bound to get at least one draw through rain, so 2-2 could be a very real possibility as I think the strengths and weaknesses of both means we won't see any 5 days draws.

whoever wins it, it will have been close.

oh but Ian Botham needs to show more respect for Aussie and I hope and think he will now.  These boys are no mugs.

And Dayle Steyn is the best seamer in the world but Anderson is a fine bowlers himself.

Shocked Shocked 

Sorry Trebbs, that is a valiant effort, but I don't think I'll ever get used to it!

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Post by kingraf 14.07.13 17:40

Steyn averages 21 in the sub-continent, that series was an anomaly...

Id be happy with a draw in UAE... How many tests has Pakistan lost there?
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Post by trebellbobaggins 14.07.13 17:42

Get used to it Duty.

 Such a short turn around to the next game.

I'd almost imagine England would rather bat first (conditions allowing) to give the bowlers more time after today's valiant efforts.  That was exhausting for Jimmy.


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Post by mystiroakey 14.07.13 17:42

pakistan can be just unplayable somedays..

I think you will win though. Just to much in the locker

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Post by Guest 14.07.13 17:44

So I guess 311 was enough then, eh Trebs? The Ashes: 1st Test, Trent Bridge - Final Day & Post Match Discussions - Page 7 3559488474

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Post by trebellbobaggins 14.07.13 17:45

Pakistan have exceptional bowlers but they seem to get let down by their batting quite often.

I think SA have the edge in the batting alongside their bowling.  If the likes of Amla get going then I'd expect them to make big strides even down there.

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Post by trebellbobaggins 14.07.13 17:46

Azzy Mahmood wrote:So I guess 311 was enough then, eh Trebs? The Ashes: 1st Test, Trent Bridge - Final Day & Post Match Discussions - Page 7 3559488474

 Only just.  I think Strauss had good reason think 350 was a nice total to make it "safe".

Aussie went best the record total to win in the  fourth here.  That effort deserves great credit.

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Post by ChequeredJersey 14.07.13 17:49

If you take a composite team from this England team and the one who won in 2005 I reckon it's a fairly even split something like:

Cook
Trescothick
Trott/Vaughn (hard call)
KP (now)
Bell (now)
Flintoff
Prior
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Jones


But the Aussies, as it stands would be mostly 2005 vintage:

Langer
Hayden
Ponting
Clarke (now)
Martyn
Gilchrist
Katich
Warne
Pattinson
Lee
McGrath

That this Aussie team pushed England so hard either speaks volumes for their character and the younger players like Smith and Agar or that England bottled it a bit
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Post by kingraf 14.07.13 17:49

Re: the match. I think Australia were a better team over five days, but they lost it over a spread of sixty balls... The 5/8 period in their first innings, the 3/5 period day four, and the 3/12 period today.

Essentially the Aussie bowlers match well vs the English batsmen, but while the Aussie batting line-up goes deep, it simply can't match up with the English bowlers. Even then they got within twenty runs, so if Australia can bat themselves into better positions, it will be interesting.
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Post by ChequeredJersey 14.07.13 17:51

South Africa are the best team in the world but comparisons to England between the team and players are best made when the teams next play each other.
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Post by kingraf 14.07.13 17:52

mystiroakey wrote:pakistan can be just unplayable somedays..

I think you will win though. Just to much in the locker

True, would also be nice to see Steyn complete the set... A fifer in each country in the sub-continent.
Bangladesh
Sri Lanka
India
Pakistan
UAE.

Not sure how often thats been done.
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Post by ChequeredJersey 14.07.13 17:53

The English batsmen can bat much better than they have done and predominantly got out rather than were gotten out, which they will hopefully avoid in the next tests. The bowling attack was missing one of its key options for the whole first innings
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Post by Duty281 14.07.13 17:56

A lot will depend on how Australia react, and they only have a short time to recover from this test.

Will they be despondent, down in the dumps, and mortally wounded over coming so near and yet so far? Will they think that was their best chance in the series gone? Will they just roll over at Lords?

Or will they take great heart and courage from the fact that they pushed England oh so close? That the gap between the teams maybe isn't that wide. That maybe they do have the tools to win a test or two in England.

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Post by trebellbobaggins 14.07.13 17:57

England have a strange habit of batting poorly in their first innings of a series in recent times.  It's something can and generally do turn around by the time they've settled in the series.

I'm still not convinced on Root opening as he adds a lot down the order. 

Two changes come to mind for me:

Root down, and Bairstow out for Compton but Compton hasn't really been that good since India.
Finn to either be played at the right times or swapped for a more economical option.

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Post by mystiroakey 14.07.13 18:08

Root to open. if there is a track to have a good shot at getting your first big opening score its lords..

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Post by Duty281 14.07.13 18:09

KP_fan wrote:--In the end the better team won....not by as much margin as their strength on paper would have suggested....and it became so close that it came down to frentic, freakish luck moments to decide the contest.

--Aus's late resurgence came after they lost the 8th wicket and decided to start attacking...whihc is what I suggested they should have done since long back.

even this morning they were too cautious......4th inning chases do require postive agression whihc came a bit too late...and hence Aus were left with just a little too much.

--going forward Aus take more positives....and if they bat more positively...and win a few tosses they will win some games.


--England is the one with problems...escaped from jail for now......Root is stuck like a frog in snake's throat...can't swalow him, can't spit it out...they have to waste him as an opener for atleast one more test as an opener to "justify their mistake"

--and Finn should not play...inspite of being the best fast bowler in Eng...because it was evident that the captain doesn't trust him inspite of his rocking spell in first inning with the new ball.

that's OK..bring back the trundler.

PS* the " umpiring mistakes" have been replaced by " DRS inconsistencies" to put it mildly.....for you never know what DRS may or may not show...and you never know how the 3rd umpire might choose to use that evidence ?
DRS adds to the glorious uncertianities of the game...and I am so glad we have kept it out

Why is man with a similar bowling average to Zaheer Khan a trundler?

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Post by trebellbobaggins 14.07.13 18:11

mystiroakey wrote:Root to open. if there is a track to have a good shot at getting your first big opening score its lords..

 fair point. They won't give up on him this soon.  Bairstow is the worry as he does seem to be struggling.  Thing is I think he has the ability, maybe trusting him and giving him time will allow him to have that one innings that really settles him.

what about Finn?   he got a bit battered here but bowled well at other times.

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Post by GSC 14.07.13 18:11

If Cook didn't trust Finn, it was because he consistently allowed the Australian batsmen to release pressure.
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Post by GSC 14.07.13 18:12

I mean he comes on with the Aussies needing 50 runs with 1 wicket left and bowls 2 overs for 24 runs. Cook has no option but to take him off.
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Post by VTR 14.07.13 18:15

Finn has got to go. He nearly cost us the match today with both ball and in the field. His confidence looks shot I'm afraid.

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Post by trebellbobaggins 14.07.13 18:16

well this game kept the fine tradition of gripping Ashes contests alive didn't it.

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Post by ChequeredJersey 14.07.13 18:16

Not sure dropping him will improve his confidence if that is the issue...
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Post by Hoggy_Bear 14.07.13 19:54

ChequeredJersey wrote:Not sure dropping him will improve his confidence if that is the issue...

Can't keep him in the team just 'cause dropping him might knock his confidence.

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Post by Duty281 14.07.13 19:58

A bit of mental arithmetic tells me that the first Ashes test has racked up 2,352 posts (and counting) on this forum. Start as we mean to go on!

Corking weather forecast for the second Test as well.

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Post by trebellbobaggins 14.07.13 20:02

seems that we are going to be blessed with a fine summer for most of these tests Duty.

Fantastic.

Now both teams have blown away the cobwebs this should be a belter.  Looking for then to take this all the way to a final session showdown on day 5.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly 14.07.13 20:55

I don't think the team should change at Lords, but Finn needs a very good game.

Bar the two wickets in two balls, he bowled fairly abysmally all test. I mean went at nearly 5.5 an over 1st innings, not good enough
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Post by gboycottnut 14.07.13 21:25

Olly wrote:I don't think the team should change at Lords, but Finn needs a very good game.

Bar the two wickets in two balls, he bowled fairly abysmally all test. I mean went at nearly 5.5 an over 1st innings, not good enough

And he made 0 in the first innings and didn't score that many runs either in the second innings. Also he just doesn't look that threatening a bowler. England need someone with raw pace who can really scare the the Aussie batsmen, and for this I would like someone like Stuart Meaker or even the young Essex left-arm fast bowler Tymal Mills being given a chance to play in an ashes test.

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Post by msp83 14.07.13 22:51

An excellent test match. Glad to see England go 1-0 up. Australia putting up a good fight made the experience of the game all the more better. Shame I had to miss some significant parts of the drama.
Besides some quality performances from James Anderson, Ian Bell and Ashton Agar and a few good hands from Kevin Pietersen, Graeme Swann, Alastair Cook, Brad Haddin, Phillip Hughes and Steven Smith, the match has alwo thrown up some major concerns with the DRS structure as well that needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.
A terrific test match for sure.

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Post by NickisBHAFC 14.07.13 23:13

I was out all day so missed the game and my phone ran out of battery Doh 

All i can say is YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!

Yahoo Yahoo Yahoo Yahoo Yahoo Yahoo Yahoo Yahoo Yahoo

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Post by meden_820 14.07.13 23:41

Phenomenal test match, best Ashes Test since 05. Fantastic batting from Bell and Agar, skillful bowling (as usual) from Jimmy, a bit of controversy thrown in, great heart shown by the Aussies with their backs against the wall, and drama from first ball to last.

Love all forms of the game, but 5 days like this proves that for excitement and drama, Test Cricket is the ultimate.


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Post by Guest 15.07.13 10:16

Hoggy_Bear wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:Not sure dropping him will improve his confidence if that is the issue...

Can't keep him in the team just 'cause dropping him might knock his confidence.
Indeed, Finn is only ever good in fits and starts, I'd rather someone consistent like Bresnan or Onions was a fixture in the side. I'd rather have 2 wickets per innings from them than 0 wickets for 3 innings, then a 5-for. Finn is probably the most infuriating England player behind Ravi Bopara imo.

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Post by GSC 15.07.13 12:23

The New Delhi Chapter of the Steven Finn fan club is surprisingly vocal
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Post by KP_fan 15.07.13 12:55

GSC wrote:The New Delhi Chapter of the Steven Finn fan club is surprisingly vocal

surprisingly is the odd word out there
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Post by Hibbz 15.07.13 17:19

Something I noticed whilst watching some highlights again today was that the two balls prior to the final wicket were both brilliantly stopped in the covers. Bairstow prevented a single off the penultimate ball with a good stop and Bell with an even better stop the ball before that.

Build up of pressure might be what caused Haddin's "fatal" lapse in concentration.

Mike Selig would definitely have been pleased to see it.

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Post by DouglasJardinesbox 15.07.13 20:13

Azzy Mahmood wrote:
Hoggy_Bear wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:Not sure dropping him will improve his confidence if that is the issue...

Can't keep him in the team just 'cause dropping him might knock his confidence.
Indeed, Finn is only ever good in fits and starts, I'd rather someone consistent like Bresnan or Onions was a fixture in the side. I'd rather have 2 wickets per innings from them than 0 wickets for 3 innings, then a 5-for. Finn is probably the most infuriating England player behind Ravi Bopara imo.

I agree. Bresnan is consistently crap.....

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Post by Steffan 15.07.13 22:02

Lets hope the Aussies can sort it out and win the second test. They neede to bat much better next time and hopefully will get a bit more luck

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Post by kingraf 15.07.13 22:18

Steffan, I didnt know you are a cricket fan... Must be happy for the England (& Wales) cricket team, yes?
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