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The Ashes, Second Test Lord's

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The Ashes, Second Test Lord's - Page 3 Empty Ashes T2: Lords, Starc and Cowans dropped

Post by KP_fan Thu 18 Jul 2013, 9:28 am

First topic message reminder :

Harris and Khwaja in.
Aus's bowling depth is so good that they can drop who was rated to be their top fast bowler without blinking an eyelid.
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 18 Jul 2013, 11:56 am

Drywolfe- in these situations go with younger better eyes!

It was an impossible call- Batter should allways get the benefit of doubt!

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Post by trebellbobaggins Thu 18 Jul 2013, 11:57 am

KP_fan wrote:Harris and Khwaja in.
Aus's bowling depth is so good that they can drop who was rated to be their top fast bowler without blinking an eyelid.

They certainly have a good crop of young bowlers right now.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 18 Jul 2013, 11:57 am

Poor from England first up. Still, we've got 2 grinders at the crease, which is just what we need. Dig in England!

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Post by Biltong Thu 18 Jul 2013, 11:57 am

dyrewolfe wrote:Can England's South African contingent get them out of trouble? We can only hope...

They aren't South African mate, they are English.
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Post by dyrewolfe Thu 18 Jul 2013, 11:58 am

trebellbobaggins wrote:Stil, no reason to give up hope yet,

Early days.  They are probably just a bit overwhelmed being watched by her Maj.

These two could settle into a big partnership here.


Okay, who are you and what have you done with the real trebell? He's NEVER this optimistic! Laugh 

In fairness we are in serious trouble, with only Trott and Bell left capable of making really big scores...and Bell had to save our skins last time around. Not really fair to expect him to do it again so soon.
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 18 Jul 2013, 11:59 am

He thinks he has been banned from being grumpy!

Its not the same- Blame Bilts!

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Post by alfie Thu 18 Jul 2013, 11:59 am

No real argument over the Root decision , surely ? Yes on first viewing - from the leg side - I thought he was safe , but the close front on suggested pad first and the view from the off , hot spots and all confirmed it ...I don't think you could argue with that at all.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:00 pm

mystiroakey wrote:He thinks he has been banned from being grumpy!

Its not the same- Blame Bilts!

It's why we're struggling!

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Post by Biltong Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:01 pm

Duty281 wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:He thinks he has been banned from being grumpy!

Its not the same- Blame Bilts!

It's why we're struggling!

Huh, who, what?
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:01 pm

alfie wrote:No real argument over the Root decision , surely ? Yes on first viewing - from the leg side - I thought he was safe , but the close front on suggested pad first and the view from the off , hot spots and all confirmed it ...I don't think you could argue with that at all.

 100% impossible to call.

Who in there right mind could even trust a front on !!! the knick is on the side of the bat:roll: Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

seriously. Off to the golf to cool down. Be back when we are 100 odd up!

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Post by Duty281 Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:01 pm

Scrumpy wrote:Well done Capt Cook, field 1st ffs!

What a joke!

Ah, the first knee-jerker. Didn't take long.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:02 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
trebellbobaggins wrote:Stil, no reason to give up hope yet,

Early days.  They are probably just a bit overwhelmed being watched by her Maj.

These two could settle into a big partnership here.


Okay, who are you and what have you done with the real trebell? He's NEVER this optimistic! Laugh 

In fairness we are in serious trouble, with only Trott and Bell left capable of making really big scores...and Bell had to save our skins last time around. Not really fair to expect him to do it again so soon.
It's not ideal and it heavily favours Aussie but ain't over until the big momma sings and all that.

Get these two in, get the lacquer off the ball. Let the bowlers start to feel that heat and then see if you can accumulate.

It's just all be. Bit too frenetic and that suits any bowling team, let alone one bowling like this.

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Post by Gerry SA Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:03 pm

Biltong wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:Can England's South African contingent get them out of trouble? We can only hope...

They aren't South African mate, they are English.
British Biltong....British

Natal and Cape Town natives aren't English

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Post by dyrewolfe Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:04 pm

Biltong wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:Can England's South African contingent get them out of trouble? We can only hope...

They aren't South African mate, they are English.

Trott and KP were both born in SA - that makes them Saffers IMO. Wink They just happen to qualify to play for England.
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Post by Biltong Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:07 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
Biltong wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:Can England's South African contingent get them out of trouble? We can only hope...

They aren't South African mate, they are English.

Trott and KP were both born in SA - that makes them Saffers IMO. ;)They just happen to qualify to play for England.

Nope, they left, they committed high treason to the Protea code, their blood has turned, they are now of another kind, not the South African kind. Whistle 
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Post by dyrewolfe Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:07 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Drywolfe- in these situations go with younger better eyes!

It was an impossible call- Batter should allways get the benefit of doubt!

It clearly wasn't an impossible call for the umpires and pundits. You seem to be in a minority on this. Wink

As I said before, if it really was that close then he can't feel too hard done by. Should have dealt with the ball better to remove doubt from the umpire's mind...or at least make the TV replays clearer.

I think you have to accept you're not always going to get spot-on decisions. At least it wasn't a stinker.
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Post by Fists of Fury Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:08 pm

It does not matter what piece of land you are born on, that is a cretinous outlook.

KP has an English parent, therefore he is every bit as English as he is South African. It is not weighted more in favour of one than the other.

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Post by Biltong Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:09 pm

Gerry SA wrote:
Biltong wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:Can England's South African contingent get them out of trouble? We can only hope...

They aren't South African mate, they are English.
British Biltong....British

Natal and Cape Town natives aren't English

British, english, they aren't South Africans anymore. angel 
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Post by alfie Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:10 pm

Nothing wrong with the choice to bat first. Just haven't taken advantage of it.

Root failure is a worry. The move to opening just hasn't worked - yet - and with the batting struggling a bit England might be wondering if they'd have been better off waiting ...too late now !

Don't expect them to be dumping Root just yet , but if he continues to fail in his new spot and ends up losing his place it will be a pity. To say nothing of perhaps creating a problem at number six which had apparently been fixed...

Getting ahead of myself...hopefully Root will settle into his new role. And hopefully Bairstow will get a score later on. After this start they will need it !

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Post by Duty281 Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:10 pm

Good lord, I've been told off before for having arguments about what makes you British! Whistle 

Now, flat deck, sunny day, the ball losing the 'new' factor = runs aplenty for these two.

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Post by Gerry SA Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:10 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:It does not matter what piece of land you are born on, that is a cretinous outlook.

KP has an English parent, therefore he is every bit as English as he is South African. It is not weighted more in favour of one than the other.
What tosh

Brought up in Natal. Speaks like a South African. Plays like a South African

Plays for England as its easier to get into their national side.

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Post by Biltong Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:10 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:It does not matter what piece of land you are born on, that is a cretinous outlook.

KP has an English parent, therefore he is every bit as English as he is South African. It is not weighted more in favour of one than the other.
To me that is all semantics. He represents England, therefor he is an England cricketer.
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Post by dyrewolfe Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:11 pm

Biltong wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
Biltong wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:Can England's South African contingent get them out of trouble? We can only hope...

They aren't South African mate, they are English.

Trott and KP were both born in SA - that makes them Saffers IMO. ;)They just happen to qualify to play for England.

Nope, they left, they committed high treason to the Protea code, their blood has turned, they are now of another kind, not the South African kind. Whistle 

Lol! Oooookaaaayyyy.

Y'know if Cook decided to move to South Africa and ended up qualifying for the Proteas, we'd still think of him as English...well, I'm sure some of us would. Wink
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Post by Biltong Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:13 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
Biltong wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
Biltong wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:Can England's South African contingent get them out of trouble? We can only hope...

They aren't South African mate, they are English.

Trott and KP were both born in SA - that makes them Saffers IMO. ;)They just happen to qualify to play for England.

Nope, they left, they committed high treason to the Protea code, their blood has turned, they are now of another kind, not the South African kind. Whistle 

Lol! Oooookaaaayyyy.

Y'know if Cook decided to move to South Africa and ended up qualifying for the Proteas, we'd still think of him as English...well, I'm sure some of us would. Wink
Think about the player, do you think KP sees himself as South African when he plays against us?
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Post by alfie Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:13 pm

Oh good grief we are surely not having this boring and pointless chat about South African born players - again ?

Come on people we are better than that...

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Post by dyrewolfe Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:14 pm

By the way I'd just like to point out I hadn't intended to re-ignite the nationalities argument.

I just refer to KP and Trott as our South African contingent as a personal thing. Its not intended as a slur, criticism or anything like that.
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:16 pm

nothing wrong with calling them saffas as they are SAFFAS. Point is they play for england because they qualify!

I hate these arguments. Drives me mad..

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Post by dyrewolfe Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:17 pm

Biltong wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
Biltong wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
Biltong wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:Can England's South African contingent get them out of trouble? We can only hope...

They aren't South African mate, they are English.

Trott and KP were both born in SA - that makes them Saffers IMO. ;)They just happen to qualify to play for England.

Nope, they left, they committed high treason to the Protea code, their blood has turned, they are now of another kind, not the South African kind. Whistle 

Lol! Oooookaaaayyyy.

Y'know if Cook decided to move to South Africa and ended up qualifying for the Proteas, we'd still think of him as English...well, I'm sure some of us would. Wink
Think about the player, do you think KP sees himself as South African when he plays against us?

I've no idea...I'd have to ask him.

I'm sure he's proud of his SA roots. I expect when he plays against you, he just thinks he has more of a point to prove because he was never selected for the Proteas. His attitude is probably more like that of the rebellious kid who left home to prove his parents wrong.
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Post by Gerry SA Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:18 pm

mystiroakey wrote:nothing wrong with calling them saffas as they are SAFFAS. Point is they play for england because they qualify!

I hate these arguments. Drives me mad..
Only reason they play for England is because the lacked the heart to play for the Proteas.


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Post by Fists of Fury Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:20 pm

Oh what a moronic outlook. Give it a rest.

This is a cricket thread, can we all go back to discussing that.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:21 pm

The problem is that it is only ever directed at england. England allways get the flack in regards to cricket and rugby. However we never even pick football players that arnt born or bread here- and Wales Scotland, NI and Ireland end up playing half english in there footy teams!!

Wales have loads of foreign rugby players. aus have foreign criceters,rugby players and footballers.. NZ the same!!

SA have a forign spinner.

Come on everyone does it. Stop using it as a dig against the English(Yes I am talking at you Gerry!!)- That is the clear problem!

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Post by guildfordbat Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:21 pm

One hour in and excellent umpiring so far by all three officials.

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Post by Scrumpy Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:21 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:Well done Capt Cook, field 1st ffs!

What a joke!

Ah, the first knee-jerker. Didn't take long.

Not a knee jerk, its a fact that our top order batsman struggle to set a decent 1st innings score these days.
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Post by Duty281 Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:22 pm

Back to the cricket today, England 42/3.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:22 pm

Gerry SA wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:nothing wrong with calling them saffas as they are SAFFAS. Point is they play for england because they qualify!

I hate these arguments. Drives me mad..
Only reason they play for England is because the lacked the heart to play for the Proteas.


 I had no idea SA had a different Cardio Physiology.

This needs to be investigated , could be giving them an unfair advantage.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:23 pm

My 750 Dec is still on.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:23 pm

Duty281 wrote:Back to the cricket today, England 42/3.

 see, early days but mustn't panic at all.

HM has gone now, they can relax and get on with a hard days work.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:23 pm

Scrumpy wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:Well done Capt Cook, field 1st ffs!

What a joke!

Ah, the first knee-jerker. Didn't take long.

Not a knee jerk, its a fact that our top order batsman struggle to set a decent 1st innings score these days.

Why on earth would you want England to field first on such a good pitch? That would be idiocy.

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Post by LivinginItaly Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:24 pm

First hour clearly belongs to australia. However, I think (or hope) that these two can put on a sizeable partnership and bring us back to a level of parity. Need to be looking at a score of about 300 for our first innings to at least keep us in the game.

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Post by KP_fan Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:24 pm

Eng made a bad move to move Root to top
and they they compunded their problems by trying to justify their mistakes in T2

let's see if they get away with their 2nd howler of a selection the mightiest trundler of all times Yahoo 
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Post by dyrewolfe Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:24 pm

Just to change the subject, does anyone think we should persevere with Root as an opener, given he seemed to perform much better lower down the order?
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Post by Gerry SA Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:24 pm

mystiroakey wrote:The problem is that it is only ever directed at england. England allways get the flack in regards to cricket and rugby. However we never even pick football players that arnt born or bread here- and Wales Scotland, NI and Ireland end up playing half english in there footy teams!!

Wales have loads of foreign rugby players. aus have foreign criceters,rugby players and footballers.. NZ the same!!

SA have a forign spinner.

Come on everyone does it. Stop using it as a dig against the English(Yes I am talking at you Gerry!!)- That is the clear problem!
Robin Peterson Port Elizabeth born and raised...

But whatever rocks your boat fella

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Post by guildfordbat Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:25 pm

Scrumpy wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:Well done Capt Cook, field 1st ffs!

What a joke!

Ah, the first knee-jerker. Didn't take long.

Not a knee jerk, its a fact that our top order batsman struggle to set a decent 1st innings score these days.
The point in your second post is totally different to that in the first.

Batting first was clearly the right decision upon winning the toss. Making a horlicks of the batting is another matter entirely.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:25 pm

"does anyone think we should persevere with Root as an opener,"

 3 innings is knee jerk. a 30 and two 50/50 outs- many players get the luck the other way round and go on to score 50's etc,,

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Post by trebellbobaggins Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:26 pm

KP_fan wrote:Eng made a bad move to move Root to top
and they they compunded their problems by trying to justify their mistakes in T2

let's see if they get away with their 2nd howler of a selection the mightiest trundler of all times Yahoo 



possibly. or they won't knee jerk and will give him a little more time.  He has the talent but inexperience is hurting him.

personally I wish he had stayed at 6 but now they've moved him I am not sure they will rush to move him back.

Compton could come back in but I wonder if they'll be a tad bloody minded after his complaints?

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Post by Gerry SA Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:26 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:Just to change the subject, does anyone think we should persevere with Root as an opener, given he seemed to perform much better lower down the order?
Compton should never have been dropped IMO

What did Bairstow do to get into the side?

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Post by Duty281 Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:26 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:Just to change the subject, does anyone think we should persevere with Root as an opener, given he seemed to perform much better lower down the order?

He's had 3 innings! Give him a chance.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:26 pm

Gerry SA wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:The problem is that it is only ever directed at england. England allways get the flack in regards to cricket and rugby. However we never even pick football players that arnt born or bread here- and Wales Scotland, NI and Ireland end up playing half english in there footy teams!!

Wales have loads of foreign rugby players. aus have foreign criceters,rugby players and footballers.. NZ the same!!

SA have a forign spinner.

Come on everyone does it. Stop using it as a dig against the English(Yes I am talking at you Gerry!!)- That is the clear problem!
Robin Peterson Port Elizabeth born and raised...

But whatever rocks your boat fella

 just drop it- Its so boring

mystiroakey

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Post by Scrumpy Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:27 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:Well done Capt Cook, field 1st ffs!

What a joke!

Ah, the first knee-jerker. Didn't take long.

Not a knee jerk, its a fact that our top order batsman struggle to set a decent 1st innings score these days.

Why on earth would you want England to field first on such a good pitch? That would be idiocy.

Because we have better bowlers than Aus and I'm sure we could heap the preassure on them by bowling them out for under 200.

Putting Root in at 2 is gifting Aus a early wicket everytime.
Scrumpy
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Post by Mike Selig Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:27 pm

There are runs in this pitch, but enough pace to ensure edges will mostly carry which keeps the bowlers interested and the batsmen honest.

Trott looks in very good touch (as he did at TB - he more than anyone will be disappointed by his first innings dismissal). Of course as I type this he gets a leading edge which is very nearly terminal.

This talk of South Africans is rather wearisome - they are playing for England and that's all that matters.

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