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The Ashes, Second Test Lord's

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The Ashes, Second Test Lord's - Page 4 Empty Ashes T2: Lords, Starc and Cowans dropped

Post by KP_fan Thu 18 Jul 2013, 9:28 am

First topic message reminder :

Harris and Khwaja in.
Aus's bowling depth is so good that they can drop who was rated to be their top fast bowler without blinking an eyelid.
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Post by Duty281 Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:28 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
Gerry SA wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:The problem is that it is only ever directed at england. England allways get the flack in regards to cricket and rugby. However we never even pick football players that arnt born or bread here- and Wales Scotland, NI and Ireland end up playing half english in there footy teams!!

Wales have loads of foreign rugby players. aus have foreign criceters,rugby players and footballers.. NZ the same!!

SA have a forign spinner.

Come on everyone does it. Stop using it as a dig against the English(Yes I am talking at you Gerry!!)- That is the clear problem!
Robin Peterson Port Elizabeth born and raised...

But whatever rocks your boat fella

 just drop it- Its so boring

The ignore button is a wonderful thing mysti. thumbsup 

And if you're ever in need of a laugh, you can unblock Gerry.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:29 pm

Scrumpy wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:Well done Capt Cook, field 1st ffs!

What a joke!

Ah, the first knee-jerker. Didn't take long.

Not a knee jerk, its a fact that our top order batsman struggle to set a decent 1st innings score these days.

Why on earth would you want England to field first on such a good pitch? That would be idiocy.

Because we have better bowlers than Aus and I'm sure we could heap the preassure on them by bowling them out for under 200.

Putting Root in at 2 is gifting Aus a early wicket everytime.

You're not going to be bowling Bangladesh out for under 200 on this pitch, lad, let alone Australia.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:30 pm

Gerry is ok Dutys- no dramas, But recently he has been banging the english saffa tune alot thats all!

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Post by msp83 Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:32 pm

James Pattinson continues to struggle with his control here. Where is Australia's Tim Bresnan?

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Post by Gerry SA Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:33 pm

As good a bowler James Pattinson is, he goes for far too many boundaries.

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Post by msp83 Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:34 pm

Peter Siddle on for the first time in this innings.

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Post by Gerry SA Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:34 pm

msp83 wrote:James Pattinson continues to struggle with his control here. Where is Australia's Tim Bresnan?
Ryan Harris can't bowl all day mate

They'll be carting him to the physio's table otherwise

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Post by alfie Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:35 pm

Obviously very early in the game. But a huge advantage to Australia in grabbing three top order scalps so quickly.

Nice bounce and carry (ironic that two went lbw !) so it isn't bad to bowl on at all...often is life before lunch here , though it usually flattens out later. So a big task for England to rebuild from here , while batting conditions should be fine even late in the match for the team batting second.

Guess this match will be a good test of what really are the comparative strengths of the two teams : if England can recover from this start and end up on top they will pretty well prove their superiority. But that is something that will play out over a few days..

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Post by Gerry SA Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:37 pm

Siddle more threatening in 6 balls than Pattinson has been all morning

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Post by Duty281 Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:38 pm

Streaky edge takes England past 50. Good rebuild here from England thus far.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:39 pm

Trott bell, prior, broad, bairstow, swann. still looking at 750 Cool

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Post by Duty281 Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:40 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Trott bell, prior, broad, bairstow, swann. still looking at 750 Cool

I'd take 350 right now!

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:40 pm

Bell might get a whole month of from me if he keeps this up!!

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:41 pm

Duty I wouldnt take 350 at lords. I would take 450 considering the situation. But i still hope for more

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Post by trebellbobaggins Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:41 pm

ah where's that belief we've come to know and love young Duty?

I reckon we just need to have faith.

They wanted to make sure HM saw some exciting stuff and the crowd got excited before settling in for the day after she left.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:42 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Duty I wouldnt take 350 at lords. I would take 450 considering the situation. But i still hope for more

although there can be some pretty short innings at Lords every now and then.

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Post by Mike Selig Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:42 pm

Australia giving a large percentage of runs in boundaries again.

Nice cover drive from Bell, but you wonder what people would have said had he nicked that...

Australia would love one of these two out before lunch. England will be desperate to avoid just that.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:43 pm

its a draw pitch. you bat out and you hope to get 20 wickets..

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:43 pm

Mike i think thats probally alot to do with the weather

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Post by Duty281 Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:45 pm

trebellbobaggins wrote:ah where's that belief we've come to know and love young Duty?

I reckon we just need to have faith.

They wanted to make sure HM saw some exciting stuff and the crowd got excited before settling in for the day after she left.

350 would be enough here to beat Australia. Obviously it's a 450 pitch, but England have made a poor start so perhaps we need to downsize a bit? Having said that Bell and Trott both look in touch.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:46 pm

yep, too early to say.  a few early wickets can dictate the flow of a match but not always.

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Post by dyrewolfe Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:47 pm

Duty281 wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:Just to change the subject, does anyone think we should persevere with Root as an opener, given he seemed to perform much better lower down the order?

He's had 3 innings! Give him a chance.


But is an Ashes series really the right place for him to get experience as an opener...and can England afford to keep losing him early?

All I'm saying is he looked a lot more composed batting 5 or 6 against New Zealand (I think). Subjecting him to the pressure of opening against Australia could be too much, too soon.
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Post by Duty281 Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:50 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:Just to change the subject, does anyone think we should persevere with Root as an opener, given he seemed to perform much better lower down the order?

He's had 3 innings! Give him a chance.


But is an Ashes series really the right place for him to get experience as an opener...and can England afford to keep losing him early?

All I'm saying is he looked a lot more composed batting 5 or 6 against New Zealand (I think). Subjecting him to the pressure of opening against Australia could be too much, too soon.

No offence to New Zealand, but I'm sure anyone would be a lot more composed, no matter where they bat, in a low-key Test series against New Zealand than in the Ashes.

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Post by msp83 Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:54 pm

England 58-3. Trott and Bell rebuilding for England, good batting conditions, but there is just a little bit of life in this track for the bowler as of now.. And the slope can always keep the bowler in the game.

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Post by Diggers Thu 18 Jul 2013, 12:56 pm

People expect way too much from Root. Lets face it he had a very hot start to the summer, probably the biggest purple patch of his career. It would be crazy to think that would last, for anyone let alone a young guy like him, and now he is in a bit of a drought.
We don't really know how good he is yet but the expectation is like we have a nailed on ATG on our hands.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:01 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:Just to change the subject, does anyone think we should persevere with Root as an opener, given he seemed to perform much better lower down the order?

He's had 3 innings! Give him a chance.


But is an Ashes series really the right place for him to get experience as an opener...and can England afford to keep losing him early?

All I'm saying is he looked a lot more composed batting 5 or 6 against New Zealand (I think). Subjecting him to the pressure of opening against Australia could be too much, too soon.

yes

yes(but they wont)

he is ready

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Post by hodge Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:02 pm

Compton Whistle 

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Post by Diggers Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:03 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:Just to change the subject, does anyone think we should persevere with Root as an opener, given he seemed to perform much better lower down the order?

He's had 3 innings! Give him a chance.


But is an Ashes series really the right place for him to get experience as an opener...and can England afford to keep losing him early?

All I'm saying is he looked a lot more composed batting 5 or 6 against New Zealand (I think). Subjecting him to the pressure of opening against Australia could be too much, too soon.

yes

yes(but they wont)

he is ready

Yes he was the right choice

No probably not

Being ready doesn't mean you are in form

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:05 pm

he is being blooded in. we have the quality around to allow us to go with him rather than waste time on an older limited but probally better short term option in compton

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Post by trebellbobaggins Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:07 pm

mystiroakey wrote:he is being blooded in. we have the quality around to allow us to go with him rather than waste time on an older limited but probally better short term option in compton

 it could be argued that Cooks form is more of a worry.  Capt C is class but having a fairly poor patch at the mo.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:09 pm

cook is captain first - batter second- as all caps are. he has dipped I agree , but you dont drop winning captains

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:11 pm

Oh dear- The game was delayed because the queen was late. Rolling Eyes

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Post by dyrewolfe Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:12 pm

We're doomed! Agar coming on for a twirl! Wink

Lunch. Good recovery by Trott & Bell. Just need to keep it going - ideally for the rest of the day. Try and get England to around 200 - 250.


Last edited by dyrewolfe on Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:18 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:15 pm

Well if he gets a wicket you have got to play a shocking shot- I think he got one crazy bouncing ball last test- but this pitch hasnt got enough demons yet. He was just bowling beacuse it was last over before break and batters wont take risks at that point

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Post by Mike Selig Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:18 pm

Good recovery from England after that amazing first half hour. Trott and Bell both looking solid despite the odd hairy moment.

Australia will want more from Pattinson. The rest of the attack has bowled very well.

England will be looking to these two to bat through this PM as well. Australia would like (at least) a couple of wickets.

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Post by dyrewolfe Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:20 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Well if he gets a wicket you have got to play a shocking shot- I think he got one crazy bouncing ball last test- but this pitch hasnt got enough demons yet. He was just bowling beacuse it was last over before break and batters wont take risks at that point

Yeah - I was just trying to make sure we got to lunch without losing a daft wicket.
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:20 pm

It really is great to see (TOUCHING A LOT OF WOOD) Bell in this test form.

When he is like this and trott off course- its as if we have a second opening partnership on the go

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Post by msp83 Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:20 pm

So England end the session at 80-3. That's a lot better than 28-3, but Australia will take this. Its a good pitch to bat on, and taking out 3 early wickets does make it Australia's session. But England have the platform to make the next session their's, provided Trott and Bell bat with the same level of application.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:20 pm

Another competitive ashes classic.

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Post by hodge Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:21 pm

mystiroakey wrote:he is being blooded in. we have the quality around to allow us to go with him rather than waste time on an older limited but probally better short term option in compton

Point being though how many chances was Compton given before being given the boot? 2/3 poor tests was it?

An Ashes series shouldn't be where someone is blooded at the top of the order. The likes of West Indies, Bangladesh even New Zealand earlier in the year should have been but not an Ashes series.

England fans will not be happy if that area could be one that sees us lose the Ashes.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:26 pm

compo is 30 years old mate. he has a limited shot selection, he was in as ashort term option from the start

root was stuck in in the middle just to put him in the side although he has allways been tagged as the next opener. That fact he did everything asked and more he was elevated to the top of the order a bit quicker thats all. He should be given at least 6 tests minimum in the opening spot imo.

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Post by Fists of Fury Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:41 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Oh dear- The game was delayed because the queen was late. Rolling Eyes

It wasn't. 11.15 was always the scheduled start time once it was known she was visiting.

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Post by alfie Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:42 pm

Trott and Bell have done well to get through to lunch at 80/3 ...kept the scoreboard ticking over so the runs are about right for a morning session at Lord's...though one or two too many wickets have gone down!
Need to bat through the next session too if they want to get back to parity after that start.
At least we know the pitch has a bit more bounce than Trent Bridge , so the pace bowlers are unlikely to be neutered as quickly as they were there. Too late for Finn I'm afraid.

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Post by bradman99.94 Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:45 pm

Not sure I’m a fan of Root opening. I always liked the look of Compton opening and Root coming in at 6; very solid look to the line-up. But I’m an admirer of Root and have no doubt he’ll succeed wherever he’s put; he’s just such a talent I wouldn’t want him to get all screwed up by not succeeding as an opener and then can’t perform if put back to the middle order

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Post by alfie Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:47 pm

Root will stay as opener for a few innings yet. Perhaps the whole series ; unless Australia win the next two Tests , which might spark some panic.
I do have concerns about him : just hasn't looked comfortable at all yet , while he always seemed very much at home at five/six. To be honest I would not have made the switch , but once made I think it should be given a decent chance to make it work.
Nobody said opening in a Test Match was easy.

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Post by Scrumpy Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:49 pm

We need to get to the Root of the problem!!! Whistle 


But it was a knee-jerk reaction to get rid of Compton before this series, he was treated really badly and his form and confidence has been shattered.
I can't help but think if he played for one of the big boys he would have been given another chance.
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Post by Fists of Fury Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:49 pm

I wanted Compton to remain as opener, like many others. Root looked comfortable in that middle order and it just seemed right.

However, I'd say that those slating England for dropping Compton so soon after some good performances shouldn't now be calling for Root to get the chop. Compton being dropped was very harsh, but the same would now apply to Root.

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Post by Scrumpy Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:52 pm

Root needs to drop down the order and not be dropped
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Post by hodge Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:54 pm

Would moving Root back to 6 count as dropping him? I just didn't feel it was right that Root was moved up to the top for an Ashes series. Should have kept Compton for this Ashes and the winter Ashes and then looked about changing if they really wanted to.

And the comment on Compton's age, how many of the other England players are over 30, age has nothing to do with it, all that matters is if you're the best man for the job.

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Post by Fists of Fury Thu 18 Jul 2013, 1:56 pm

I think moving him back to six constitutes a drop, yes. It effectively says "we got it wrong, you're not our man yet".

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