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Ashes second test, Lords, continued.

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Post by Biltong Sat 20 Jul 2013, 2:27 pm

First topic message reminder :

Please continue here guys.


Last edited by Biltong on Sat 20 Jul 2013, 2:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by alfie Wed 24 Jul 2013, 1:21 pm

I certainly wouldn't begrudge Taylor another chance...but I personally hope KP is OK - winning is fine but watching that man bat when he is on song is another level of enjoyment !

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Post by hodge Wed 24 Jul 2013, 2:14 pm

Definitely shows Compton was never really in the selectors plan for the ashes Root could easily have moved to the middle order and bring Compton back or even just put Compton in the middle order as thats where he batted for Somerset before getting his call up.

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Post by NickisBHAFC Wed 24 Jul 2013, 5:01 pm

Taylor is better than Compton and Compton has responded to being dropped very badly.

Taylor has been included in the Sussex game against Australia (may have to go down on Friday btw) 

I for one am delighted Taylor has been given another chance, when he bursted onto the scene at Leicestershire i knew he would be a future England player, he can go onto be a star, he looks settled at a big county cricket club in Nottinghamshire, has a bright future ahead of him.

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Post by hodge Wed 24 Jul 2013, 5:06 pm

NickisBHAFC wrote:Taylor is better than Compton and Compton has responded to being dropped very badly.

Taylor has been included in the Sussex game against Australia (may have to go down on Friday btw) 

I for one am delighted Taylor has been given another chance, when he bursted onto the scene at Leicestershire i knew he would be a future England player, he can go onto be a star, he looks settled at a big county cricket club in Nottinghamshire, has a bright future ahead of him.

To be fair, he was told by selectors to go and score runs, which he did while Root struggled in the game Vs Essex.

I have nothing against Taylor being given a chance for England again, but think Compton has been lead along up to this point then discarded.

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Post by GSC Wed 24 Jul 2013, 5:09 pm

Root was never moving back after his 100. Compton isn't playing middle order
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Post by NickisBHAFC Wed 24 Jul 2013, 5:22 pm

I do want Compton to hit form again and im sure he will, but i just can't see him being included in any of the ashes squads this summer.

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Post by mystiroakey Wed 24 Jul 2013, 5:36 pm

compo should only get in as a replacement to root cook or trott(if any got injured)

taylor has to come in for KP

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Post by hodge Wed 24 Jul 2013, 5:41 pm

mystiroakey wrote:compo should only get in as a replacement to root cook or trott(if any got injured)

taylor has to come in for KP

Thing is I don't think he would come in, I think the selectors would go for someone like Alex Hales instead of Compton.

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Post by GSC Wed 24 Jul 2013, 5:43 pm

Compton is the replacement opener.

That's his role, so if the #4 gets injured, logically he isn't the first candidate
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Post by JDizzle Wed 24 Jul 2013, 10:54 pm

No way Hales comes in if an opener goes down. He's been in dire form in the long stuff this summer. Selectors might even go for someone like Chopra if Cook or Root, God forbid, get injured.

As for Taylor potentially getting a chance, about time! In the nicest possible way, please miss the game KP! Come on Jimmy!

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Post by hodge Wed 24 Jul 2013, 11:22 pm

JDizzle wrote:No way Hales comes in if an opener goes down. He's been in dire form in the long stuff this summer. Selectors might even go for someone like Chopra if Cook or Root, God forbid, get injured.

As for Taylor potentially getting a chance, about time! In the nicest possible way, please miss the game KP! Come on Jimmy!

I dunno, England like to pick players who have already played in other formats of the game. Compton was rare in regard of coming straight into the test side.

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Post by NickisBHAFC Wed 24 Jul 2013, 11:41 pm

Hales isn't at test standard, so we will remove his name. 

Carberry i would rather see than Compton personally.

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Post by GSC Wed 24 Jul 2013, 11:44 pm

Hales has been poo in the CC.

Carberry was never good enough.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 24 Jul 2013, 11:57 pm

Anyone else think that young lad Kerrigan at Lancs will Tour this winter?

To be honest it'd be more beneficial if he went, got some experience, rather than Monty, who is the past
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Post by Mike Selig Thu 25 Jul 2013, 12:13 pm

Taylor will come in should KP be injured I would have thought, because he is still next in line in front of I guess Bopara.

Compton is probably still the replacement opener, because both Root and Cook are young, so any replacement is going to be short term (for injury) at the moment.

I like Hales, but he isn't there yet. Carberry is just average.

Monty is still youngish, and with Swann's injury concerns England would be foolish to give the 2nd spinner's slot to a youngster for the sake of it. I still reckon England are better off picking Tredwell if Swann is unavailable - Monty is a complement for Swann rather than a replacement. Kerrigan will probably get an A tour or whatever I would imagine - better experience than carrying drinks for the first team.

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Post by NickisBHAFC Thu 25 Jul 2013, 1:16 pm

Yeah crazy dropping Monty as number 2 spinner, complete nonsense.

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Post by Mat Thu 25 Jul 2013, 4:21 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Olly wrote:BBC Sport ‏@BBCSport
Confirmed: Notts batsman James Taylor to play for Sussex against Australia - clear indication he's in line for a Test call-up #bbccricket
An even clearer indication of the shameful downgrading of county cricket.

Glad I'm not the only one who isn't a big fan of this whole "guesting" malarky. I know it's supposed to be for the greater good and all that, but surely there is a young Sussex batsman who would benefit from the opportunity to face the Aussies?

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Post by GSC Thu 25 Jul 2013, 4:26 pm

Test cricket is the pinnacle. If an England batsmen can get some practice in playing in a meaningless match for another county, I don't see the issue.

The only team that would actually lose out is Notts, and I'd rather Taylor play against Aus tbqh.
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Post by bradman99.94 Thu 25 Jul 2013, 4:34 pm

Really don’t see the problem.  County cricket is important but not as much as Test cricket. One (but certainly not the only one) of its functions is to provide England with high quality players; a function it has been admirable at recently. Circumstances appear to have come together where a likely Test replacement, who might be required to replace an injured team member, wouldn’t have the opportunity to play first class cricket between now and the next Test and a sensible arrangement has been put in place allowing him to turn out in the Aussies tour game.

I would have preferred an England Lions game against them rather than the county’s even though that may cause some disturbance to the county fixtures

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 25 Jul 2013, 5:49 pm

This whole guesting thing shows how different cricket and football are in this country. Cricket is all about the country, football all about the club!

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Post by Mat Thu 25 Jul 2013, 6:20 pm

Obviously just me then. At least Taylor has a chance of playing I guess, having Compton playing for Worcs instead of one of our youngsters was a shame as it now seems clear he was never under any sort of consideration for Ashes selection.

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Post by GSC Thu 25 Jul 2013, 6:25 pm

Luke Wright isn't playing anyway.

Would've been a nice experience to play Aus but its hardly going to cripple any development. Making a big deal out of nothing really.
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 25 Jul 2013, 6:38 pm

Mat wrote:Obviously just me then. At least Taylor has a chance of playing I guess, having Compton playing for Worcs instead of one of our youngsters was a shame as it now seems clear he was never under any sort of consideration for Ashes selection.

nope it does seem very unfair...

I can see pluses and minuses. very much on the fence tbh!!

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 25 Jul 2013, 6:38 pm

you cant play wright and smith at the same time. (they are one and the same!!)

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Post by Mike Selig Thu 25 Jul 2013, 8:08 pm

Mat wrote:Obviously just me then.

Not really, however the counties haven't helped themselves, by most of the time picking virtual 2nd XIs to play the touring sides, and taking it as an opportunity to rest their main players. If Root is taking up the place of a young batsman who is keen to prove himself to force his way into the first team then that is a shame. If (as I suspect more likely) he is taking up the place of the 10th (ish) best batsman who is only likely to play first team cricket if there is a massive injury list, at least for the time being, then the harm is obviously much less.

As to mysti's comparison with football... money is obviously the big difference. The England team (via the Sky contract) essentially fund the county game in cricket...

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Post by Mat Thu 25 Jul 2013, 8:37 pm

Like I said, no problem with the selection of Taylor for Sussex as he actually has a chance of playing. But there doesn't seem like there was any chance of Compton getting a call up and having already had one game against the Aussies, I didn't really see the point in him playing for Worcs for a game that was clearly going to make no difference to his chances, particularly as our whole team is pretty much younger players so it's not the, admittedly, normal scenario you talked about Mike. One of our younger players getting a game may have been of actual benefit to us!

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 25 Jul 2013, 9:38 pm

Yes I suppose compos call up was a bit of a kick in the teeth!

but then why not play your reserve opener just in case!


I think we can all agree that is what he is there for. Just a sub . Maybe we expected root to get punched again!!



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Post by JDizzle Thu 25 Jul 2013, 9:48 pm

Looks like our discussion did Joe Leach the world of good Mat! 80 not out and a maiden century in the same game! Great knock!

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Post by Mat Thu 25 Jul 2013, 9:53 pm

JDizzle wrote:Looks like our discussion did Joe Leach the world of good Mat! 80 not out and a maiden century in the same game! Great knock!

Yeah, after I said he'd struggled for runs this season as well! Got a massive ton for the seconds in the game before, then took it into the 1st team. Just a shame none of Worcs other batsman could do the same really.

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Post by JDizzle Thu 25 Jul 2013, 9:54 pm

Been smashing around Birmingham Prem attacks for a few weeks as well before that. In superb form. Don't suspect we'll be seeing much of him for club and (minor) county now. Shame!

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Post by Mat Thu 25 Jul 2013, 9:58 pm

He's been given a few chances in the T20's, unfortunately his bowling has gone for a few in that format. But his recent run of form in FC Cricket is very promising, good all round option.

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Post by JDizzle Thu 25 Jul 2013, 10:01 pm

Haven't seen much of his bowling on TV, always seemed to miss him. What sort of speeds is he hitting? His brother was released last week as well which is a shame, always thought he was the better player!

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Post by guildfordbat Thu 25 Jul 2013, 10:26 pm

Mike Selig wrote:
Mat wrote:Obviously just me then.

Not really, however the counties haven't helped themselves, by most of the time picking virtual 2nd XIs to play the touring sides, and taking it as an opportunity to rest their main players. If Root is taking up the place of a young batsman who is keen to prove himself to force his way into the first team then that is a shame. If (as I suspect more likely) he is taking up the place of the 10th (ish) best batsman who is only likely to play first team cricket if there is a massive injury list, at least for the time being, then the harm is obviously much less.

As to mysti's comparison with football... money is obviously the big difference. The England team (via the Sky contract) essentially fund the county game in cricket...
Mike - I appreciate your point about counties not having helped themselves in their selections but would flag that has been the case to my knowledge for at least forty years. A counter point perhaps is that this is meant to be a practice match for the touring side and not any England player hoping for a Test call up.

A big issue I have (and, for once, Surrey's management have the same concern) is how dreadfully uneven is the scheduling of County Championship games throughout the domestic season. Of Surrey's 16 CC matches this year, 11 have been squeezed into two periods of just over a month each at the start and end  of the season ; 5 between mid April and mid May with 6 between late August and late September. That has left a mere 5 CC matches spread very thinly across more than three months when the season (weather wise at least) should be at its best.

The above cannot be right and needs changing. If England want to see how Taylor (think you referred to him as Root by mistake- don't worry now, it'll get worse as you get older! Wink ) is getting on in the 4 day game, they should regularly be able to see him in one for his own county without having to parachute him in somewhere else. England and Sky have a wider obligation to the game than the current England team.

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Post by Mike Selig Thu 25 Jul 2013, 11:51 pm

Hard to disagree too much with that guildford.

Certainly I don't want to see ringers parachuted in as often as they are being at the moment (all starting with the "get Strauss into some form" experiment with Somerset IIRC).

You are correct in that England and Sky have a wider obligation, but unfortunately in my experience organisations rarely see their wider obligations. The ICC is not a good role model in this regard...

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Post by Mat Fri 26 Jul 2013, 11:11 am

JDizzle wrote:Haven't seen much of his bowling on TV, always seemed to miss him. What sort of speeds is he hitting? His brother was released last week as well which is a shame, always thought he was the better player!

Haven't seen him bowl on TV so don't know exactly, but our keeper doesn't stand up the stumps to him, I'd guess around 80-84mph.

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