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Can Australia turn this around?

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Can Australia turn this around? - Page 2 Empty Can Australia turn this around?

Post by Biltong Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:06 pm

First topic message reminder :

Like the title says, can Australia fight back?

So far in the series.

Siddle first test 8/135
Siddle second test 3/141

Starc first test 5/135
Second test dropped

Pattinson first test 5/170
Pattinson second test 2/137

Agar first test 2/106
Agar second test 0/142.

Watson first test 0/18
Watson second test 1/70

Harris second test 7/105

Batting top 6.
Watson 109 runs, average 27.25
Rogers 89 runs, average 22.25, 1 fifty.
Khawaja 68 runs, average 34, 1 fifty
Hughes 83 runs, average 27.66, 1 fifty
Clarke 102 runs, average 25.50, 1 fifty
Smith 73 runs, average 18.25, 1 fifty
Haddin 86 runs, average 21.50, 1 fifty

It seems nobody is in form, Clarke who was on fire not so long ago and who has carried the Australian batting dinglehandedly against SA is nowhere near his best, Watson still doesn't seem to me at least to be able to consistently perform in the test arena, and the batting in general still seems very vulnerable.

You surely can't blame it on foreign conditions, Anderson with 13 wickets for 238 runs, Swann with 13 wickets for 288 runs, with some contributions from the rest of their bowlers seem to have Australia's number.

I am just wondering how much Lehman can really change in such a short preparation time before the Ashes, and would it not have been more prudent to retain Mickey Arthur until at least the end of the Ashes series in England with Lehman being there in the background to assess matters from a team relation and individual mindset before taking over.

Cricket players don't all of a sudden get into bad form all at the sme time. In my view it seems there are underlying problems and I don't think you need to look further than the mood in th camp or the mental state these players are in.

What do you guys think?
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Post by msp83 Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:43 pm

Lyon for Agar, Warner for Hughes, Bird/Starc/Faulkner for Pattinson?

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Post by GSC Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:44 pm

As I said, why not play 2 spinners if Ahmed arrives. OT is a spin pitch atm, England won't have seen much of him and what have Aus got to lose really.
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Post by Hoggy_Bear Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:46 pm

GSC wrote:As I said, why not play 2 spinners if Ahmed arrives. OT is a spin pitch atm, England won't have seen much of him and what have Aus got to lose really.

Ahmed's been named in the Australia 'A' squad hasn't he?
Doubt they'd do that if they were bringing him over for the OT test.

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Post by GSC Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:48 pm

Ah, fair enough. Guess it will be 1 spinner then.

Kinda hoped Aus would take that gamble.
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Post by msp83 Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:01 pm

Ahmed may be a special talent but I don't like all the hype around him. Another leggy, debuting in his 30s, had an absolute nightmare against Ashwell Prince and co a couple of years ago. Anyways, he's not yet part of the Ashes squad, and is set to play against the South Africa A side. So it doesn't look likely he would be making his test debut in the 3rd test.

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Post by alfie Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:38 pm

Agar and Lyon both playing against Sussex. Be interesting to see how they bowl together.

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Post by msp83 Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:56 pm

alfie wrote:Agar and Lyon both playing against Sussex. Be interesting to see how they bowl together.
So when's Agar going to South Africa? And is David Warner playing the tour game against Sussex?

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Post by alfie Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:04 pm

Is Agar going to SA ? Warner is still there I understand ...in fact only Hughes Cowan Khawaja and Smith of the batsmen are playing against Sussex , along with Wade , the two spinners , three pace men who didn't play the Test match and a ring in from the Under 19 team !

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Post by kingraf Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:32 pm

David Warner who wasn't listed in the A team, just scored a ton vs SAA. Currently tea. He is on 113*. CSA might have put together a lazy press-release re: the Australian squad as Agar isn't here either. Regardless, Warner is in the runs
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Post by guildfordbat Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:33 pm

Going to be very difficult for Australia. Heard a cracking comment yesterday which made me smile and has more than a ring of truth - Australia bat all the way down but not necessarily all the way up.

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Post by Guest Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:22 pm

Lyon should be in the side

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Post by guildfordbat Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:30 pm

CF wrote:Lyon should be in the side
I'm pretty sure he will be for Old Trafford.

You been away, CF? Never the same without you. Very Happy 

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Post by Guest Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:01 pm

na aint been away just not as active as i used to be

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Post by msp83 Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:06 pm

kingraf wrote:David Warner who wasn't listed in the A team, just scored a ton vs SAA. Currently tea. He is on 113*. CSA might have put together a lazy press-release re: the Australian squad as Agar isn't here either. Regardless, Warner is in the runs
With that ton, Warner has made a strong case to be picked for the 3rd test.

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Post by msp83 Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:13 pm

David Warner ended up scoring 193 of 226 balls. Glenn Maxwell also scoring a ton of his own. In all, the A side finding things a lot better than the seniors. The big hundred should bring Warner firmly back into the frame, and it is interesting to note that his innings came at 4 rather than at the top of the order.
Warner for Hughes, and Clarke to bat 5 may be the way to go.

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Post by kingraf Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:15 pm

Warner out for 193 (226), Glenn Maxwell also scored a ton. he is not out overnight. Must be said that this isn't exactly SAA, but its still a reasonable attack Warner just tore to pieces. Kyle Abbot, of eight-wicket haul on debut fame was slaughtered by Warner. As was the highly rated Merchant de Lange.
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Post by msp83 Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:21 pm

On a side note, only Warner averages above 40 in FC cricket in that Australia A top 7 of Finch, Shaun Marsh, Doolan, Warner, Henriques, Maxwell and Paine. Tells you a lot about the lack of batting quality in Australia at the moment.

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Post by kingraf Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:33 pm

Warner actually has a FC average over 50 in Shield cricket...
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Post by msp83 Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:37 pm

An overall FC average of 43 and a test average of 39 is something that Australia would take gladly.

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Post by VTR Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:54 pm

msp83 wrote:An overall FC average of 43 and a test average of 39 is something that Australia would take gladly.

Of course. If he didn't go round punching people in the face...

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Post by Mike Selig Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:56 pm

Think Australia now have to pick Warner, probably at 4 (I personally would pick him as an opener - even though these runs came at 4 he was in pretty early - and drop Watson down to 4).

Maxwell with an excellent unbeaten hundred as well; he's been dismissed by some as just a slogger on here, but I reckon he's got some special talent. Obviously nowhere near test class at the moment, but in a few years should be challenging Smith for the no 6 slot.

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Post by kingraf Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:09 pm

In my defense, I've never dismissed him as a slogger, just a village cricketer!
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Post by kingraf Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:45 am

Maxwell ends unbeaten on 155. Very good performance from the villager
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Post by mystiroakey Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:43 pm

What would you class yourself graf?

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Post by kingraf Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:16 pm

just above village cricket, Id say Mystiroakey Very Happy
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Post by kingraf Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:29 pm

SAA 250/4, Dean Elgar, fighting to remain relevant, one would think, is not out on 100... Giving the selectors something to think about for the #7 spit. JP is still the front runner, I think, but Dean did his case no harm today, played particularly well vs the mythical Ahmed.
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Post by kingraf Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:35 pm

Nothing in Ahmed's performance today showed any justification for the love-in which currently holds true for him
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Post by bradman99.94 Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:39 pm

Ahmed's gone for very nearly 5 an over of 18 overs with two wickets. I don't see that as threatening

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Post by Duty281 Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:38 pm

Australia are desperate, almost as desperate as England were 2 decades ago.

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Post by kingraf Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:07 am

Dean Elgar and Tsolekile pimp slapping Ahmed at the moment, he might not be the holy grail to rescue the Aussies
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Post by sirfredperry Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:46 pm

Sure Australia can turn this round. Those with long memories will recall how they won the third Test in the 1978-79 series after losing the first two. (OK, they lost heavily after that)
  More recently, they were walloped in Adelaide but came back to win in Perth. England, however well they are doing, nearly always have a Test defeat in them during a series.
  As I write Cowan and Hughes are going well against Sussex. Cowan should never have been dropped for Lord's. He will play at Manchester and I would move Watson down the order and bring in Warner.
  The worry for Australia is that I  can't see them winning more than one Test in this series and even winning two will not be enought to take the Ashes.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:52 pm

theoritically can and realistically can are very different things!


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Post by kingraf Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:51 pm

Well, realistically, Ahmed has been Spanked down in Pretoria. Hopefully Warner can stay away from alcohol central (Hatfield, which is a few kilometres away from the ground) and come back for T3...
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Post by msp83 Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:35 pm

Monty Panesar picked up 3 wickets. Will he come into the frame for the 3rd test? They say it has been turning consistently at OT this year, will England go the 2 spinner way?
Also why is Luke Wright not playing for his county here?

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Post by GSC Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:52 pm

Would have to be Panesar for Bresnan, leaving England with just 2 seamers.

Wrights injured
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Post by trebellbobaggins Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:00 am

Aussie seem to do well in these practice games and it must help heir batsmen to be back in the runs,

Wonder what the quality of bowling was? If it was good then they are likely to be good again next week against England I'd think.

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Post by mystiroakey Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:03 am

i think we should give anderson, swann and kp(if fit) a rest and make a bit more of a game of it tbh..

taylor, tremlet and monty in, bres and broad can stay on


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Post by Corporalhumblebucket Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:47 pm

Hamilton Brown (Sussex) softening up Lyon in advance of next Test - just hit him for four 4s off five balls.

Partnership of 53* between HB and Taylor, of which Taylor has scored 3.  Obviously got good temperament for test cricket.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:59 pm

Maybe Hamilton-Brown is staking a last minute claim to KP's test place?

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Post by kingraf Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:05 pm

Aaron Finch out for 88 in the "A" game. Back to back fifies in South Africa (Though, having played at the University they are playing at, I can confirm that its an absolute road... Actually, a salt flat) whats his FC record?
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Post by amanuensis Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:44 pm

Hoggy_Bear wrote:Maybe Hamilton-Brown is staking a last minute claim to KP's test place?

We're stuck with the runt with the Manilow nose.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:59 pm

amanuensis wrote:
Hoggy_Bear wrote:Maybe Hamilton-Brown is staking a last minute claim to KP's test place?

We're stuck with the runt with the Manilow nose.

Not a fan of Taylor then?

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Post by amanuensis Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:06 pm

Good international seamers will keep the ball full outside off and I just can't see him scoring.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:07 pm

mystiroakey wrote:i think we should give anderson, swann and kp(if fit) a rest and make a bit more of a game of it tbh..


I'm sure those 3 will love being benched to "make more of a game of it"...
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Post by Corporalhumblebucket Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:12 pm

Also known as hubris.

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Post by kingraf Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:16 pm

Australia A currently 217/6 in Pretoria, it beggars belief that they are struggling on probably the flattest pitch in Gauteng. Looks like the batting cupboards are extremely bare...


Yahoo for our back-up bowlers though!
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Post by Mike Selig Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:19 pm

To be fair Australia A are only playing 4 batsmen (+ Henriques and Maxwell who at best could be described as all-rounders ATM). Plus Abbott and De Lange are easily amongst the best bowlers not playing international cricket.

Meanwhile Agar (and not Lyon) has dismissed RHB

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Post by kingraf Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:23 pm

Mike - I understand what you are saying, but Ive played on this pitch. Its quite easily the flattest bed that you can make in South Africa. 216/6 is the equivalent of 114/6 on a more lively pitch. Maxwell batting well though, may also be staking a claim.
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Post by JDizzle Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:59 pm

If Taylor couldn't score against anything full of off stump then he wouldn't have made it in Couty Cricket. He's got an off side game.

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Post by GSC Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:03 pm

kingraf wrote:Mike - I understand what you are saying, but Ive played on this pitch. Its quite easily the flattest bed that you can make in South Africa. 216/6 is the equivalent of 114/6 on a more lively pitch. Maxwell batting well though, may also be staking a claim.

 On par with the first team then
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