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Current world XI to face South Africa?

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Post by kingraf Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:52 am

First topic message reminder :

Given the almost complete dominance we have had over the last two-three years, I think its time to assume South Africa are so comprehensively dominant, that only a compilation of the finest cricketers on world cricket will beat us*. So imagine if you will, the ICC has commissioned a there test Super series to ascertain just how good South Africa are. Who would be in the touring squad? The starting XI? The Water carrier?

*Im fully expecting us to lose in UAE, so I need to proclaim our greatness before we get pegged badly. Doesn't help that Dale Steyn is busy acting in Adam Sandler films.
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Post by mystiroakey Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:25 pm

but i do agree that maybe one day rest would be needed for this poor privildged pro sportsmen!!

thats still not 3 day rests!!


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Post by Stella Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:26 pm

mystiroakey wrote:mate - some of my engineers work in manc land one day- london the next, birmingham the next, cardiff the next, southampton the next.


But this is sport.

Would Palace play away to Sheffield Wednesday on Monday and then Forest the next night? No,why? Because they would not be physically prepared.
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Post by Stella Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:27 pm

Right, gotta go. It's been good OK 
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Post by kingraf Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:30 pm

I left the office for... tea, I come back to the computer, and the discussion is now about whethe NZ, Bangla, and Zim are being held at gunpoint being forced to play Test cricket
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Post by Mike Selig Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:30 pm

They don't play international sport though do they? Your body needs to recover, not travel at the end of the day. These guys are fantastic athletes.

Given a finish at 6.30, by the time you've warmed down, showered, maybe had a massage or a relaxing swim it's probably 7.30 at least. Given you want to eat, digest and then be in bed by midnight, that leaves a very small window. You could do it, but it's not a relaxing experience and you won't be in top shape the next morning.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:33 pm

yes as i said 1 day rest is adequate. why do we need more.

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Post by Mike Selig Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:33 pm

There is also a difference between playing a day of a test match and an ODI. In purely physical terms one is 10 overs (more than 10% so non-negligeable) longer, and of course a bowler may completely rest during a day's test cricket (and a batsman do nothing but field, which, whilst tiring is not as tiring as bowling or batting). But in mental and emotional terms they are very different - it is far more taxing to play a full match with all the emotions of winning/losing than play part of a game.

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Post by Mike Selig Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:36 pm

mystiroakey wrote:yes as i said 1 day rest is adequate. why do we need more.

They don't, probably. The science talks about 4-2-1 at the moment (which means in a week you should not play more than 4 games, not more than 2 consecutively, and have one day completely off - no practice). However the science suggests also that fast bowlers are being severely overbowled around the world. I can't remember the exact figures, but it was so far removed from what fast bowlers do actually that I was a bit shocked.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:36 pm

so again whats wrong with giving them only a days rest in england anyway.. where it truely isnt going to take longer than a few hours to get to each ground- as long as there are sensibly arranged!!

No reason to waste the odi time. If we play every game every other day- we get another test match into the tour!

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Post by msp83 Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:31 pm

On the original topic.......
Alastair Cook
Cheteshwar Pujara
Jonathan Trott
Kevin Pietersen
Michael Clarke
Shakib Al Hasan
Matt Prior
Peter Siddle
Kemar Roach
Saeed Ajmal
James Anderson
Shivnarine Chanderpaul, Mahendra Singh Dhoni, Graeme Swann and Stuart Broad to constitute the backup.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:35 pm

swann gets in the world 11 all day long!

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Post by Stella Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:45 pm

Sangakkara should
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Post by msp83 Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:48 pm

It has to be a toss-up between Swanny and Ajmal. They both are quality spinners, Swanny can bat better, Ajmal bowled well in the recent series against South Africa, Swann's had a few injury concerns in recent times. On another day, it could be Swann in and Ajmal the reserve. Or if they are playing in more spinning conditions, they both play and Siddle has to go out.
Or else we could put together an alternative world side and play a triangular.
Tillakaratne Dilshan
Chris Gayle
Kumar Sangakkara
Virat Kohli
Shivnarine Chanderpaul
Marlon Samuels
Mahendra Singh Dhoni
Stuart Broad
Graeme Swann
James Pattinson
Junaid Khan
Mahela Jayawardene, Ravichandran Ashwin, Mushfiqur Rahim and Tim Southee the backups.


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Post by mystiroakey Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:56 pm

swan is the better spinner , so he gets in th team..

if we are picking on form- then take KP out. he has batted rubbish all year

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Post by mystiroakey Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:12 pm

If this was an odi team- then I would have to pick pick ajmal

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Post by Biltong Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:52 pm

If it was an ODI team you could just send Zimbabwe, we're terrible at the moment.
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Post by mystiroakey Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:56 pm

Nah your fine, anyway ODI is just practise for the real thing

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Post by Mike Selig Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:17 pm

Last time Swann played against SA they dealt with him comfortably, but have struggled more against Ajmal's straighter line, so Ajmal just gets the nod for this one.

I think you have to pick Sangakara based on recent records.

Something like
Cook
Gayle
Pujara
Sangakara
Clarke
Chanderpaul
Prior
Pattinson (for no other reason than there is no obvious 3rd seamer, and I like him)
Roach
Anderson
Ajmal

A lot of left-handers to combat Steyn...

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Post by Duty281 Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:28 pm

mystiroakey wrote:when are we playing you next?

by the way you have the right to be called the best team.. but if any team is going to beat you its us!!(IMO)

forget about world 11 . its immaterial. you cant make a team out of that. As we should be able to tell its all about the team unit - not the collective parts!


mystiroakey wrote:because you play all that one day stuff!

thats why we never get to play you at test. We keep the test brand up. you just dont play it enough! its a sad state of affairs tbh. As the top team you need to do more for test cricket.. The fact that you only play so little tells us its you that dont play us enough. Off course we would play you more if you allowed it!!

Yes, g'wannnn my son!

For what it's worth, I think the last two home series against South Africa have been played by an England on tired legs. In 2008, it was Vaughan's last series as captain, and in 2012 it was Strauss' last series as captain. Both times, England were in desperate need of fresh leadership.

That is not intended to be disrespectful to South Africa though, they are the best team in the world currently.

But I can't wait for England to play the Saffers again, we're a much better team than we were 12 months ago, and I so wish England were touring South Africa this winter, not Australia.

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Post by kingraf Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:47 pm

Its alright Duty, what is defeat without The mighty *? Dont forget 2003, it was Nasser's last series as captain as well. Long as the captain isnt quitting..

Of course, we are a much better team from then as well. AB has grown into the Batting wicket-keeper role. Faf du Plessis has Taken to Test cricket like a floating device to water, and Steyn, having had a flat (by his ridiculous standards) 2012, was immense post-England (45 wickets in eight matches since England tour @ 17, vs. 29 wickets in seven tests at 30 From 1 Jan till the end of the England tour). Found ourselves a new quickie in Kyle Abbot. And our batting depth is shored up... With Dean Elgar, despite a massive double ton in the "A" match, and a ton in the Summer not guaranteed a spot in the XI.. Oh, and we have a spinner not named Imran Tahir.
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Post by mystiroakey Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:53 pm

yes your good. But you dont have J ROOT!

by the time 2016 comes around j ROOT is gonna have the only test average that has ever rivaled Sir DON:D 

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Post by Biltong Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:34 pm

Duty281 wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:when are we playing you next?

by the way you have the right to be called the best team.. but if any team is going to beat you its us!!(IMO)

forget about world 11 . its immaterial. you cant make a team out of that. As we should be able to tell its all about the team unit - not the collective parts!


mystiroakey wrote:because you play all that one day stuff!

thats why we never get to play you at test. We keep the test brand up. you just dont play it enough! its a sad state of affairs tbh. As the top team you need to do more for test cricket.. The fact that you only play so little tells us its you that dont play us enough. Off course we would play you more if you allowed it!!

Yes, g'wannnn my son!

For what it's worth, I think the last two home series against South Africa have been played by an England on tired legs. In 2008, it was Vaughan's last series as captain, and in 2012 it was Strauss' last series as captain. Both times, England were in desperate need of fresh leadership.

That is not intended to be disrespectful to South Africa though, they are the best team in the world currently.

But I can't wait for England to play the Saffers again, we're a much better team than we were 12 months ago, and I so wish England were touring South Africa this winter, not Australia.

We were told that last time round as well.
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Post by Duty281 Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:51 pm

Biltong wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:when are we playing you next?

by the way you have the right to be called the best team.. but if any team is going to beat you its us!!(IMO)

forget about world 11 . its immaterial. you cant make a team out of that. As we should be able to tell its all about the team unit - not the collective parts!


mystiroakey wrote:because you play all that one day stuff!

thats why we never get to play you at test. We keep the test brand up. you just dont play it enough! its a sad state of affairs tbh. As the top team you need to do more for test cricket.. The fact that you only play so little tells us its you that dont play us enough. Off course we would play you more if you allowed it!!

Yes, g'wannnn my son!

For what it's worth, I think the last two home series against South Africa have been played by an England on tired legs. In 2008, it was Vaughan's last series as captain, and in 2012 it was Strauss' last series as captain. Both times, England were in desperate need of fresh leadership.

That is not intended to be disrespectful to South Africa though, they are the best team in the world currently.

But I can't wait for England to play the Saffers again, we're a much better team than we were 12 months ago, and I so wish England were touring South Africa this winter, not Australia.

We were told that last time round as well.

Well I would say for England that: 2009 they were growing, 2010 and 2011 they were the best in the world, then most of 2012 they were poor (barring the final 3 tests in India), and in 2013 we're improving ever so slightly again.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:06 pm

We are deffo improving and are adding new blood. Its not just about root either. Bairstow is slowly going about his business as well.

That said- whatever I may have said above. SA are the best and deserve the no.1 ranking. I just wish we could play them soon!

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Post by ShankyCricket Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:13 am

Cook
Trott
Sangakkara
Pietersen
Clarke
Bell
Prior(wk)
Harris
Jimmy
Ajmal
Junaid

Backups

Root
Pujara
Dhoni
Boult
Broad

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Post by ShankyCricket Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:26 am

Oops, forgot about Chanderpaul. Chanders over Bell.

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Post by ShankyCricket Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:30 am

msp83 wrote:It has to be a toss-up between Swanny and Ajmal. They both are quality spinners, Swanny can bat better, Ajmal bowled well in the recent series against South Africa, Swann's had a few injury concerns in recent times. On another day, it could be Swann in and Ajmal the reserve. Or if they are playing in more spinning conditions, they both play and Siddle has to go out.
Or else we could put together an alternative world side and play a triangular.
Tillakaratne Dilshan
Chris Gayle
Kumar Sangakkara
Virat Kohli
Shivnarine Chanderpaul
Marlon Samuels
Mahendra Singh Dhoni
Stuart Broad
Graeme Swann
James Pattinson
Junaid Khan
Mahela Jayawardene, Ravichandran Ashwin, Mushfiqur Rahim and Tim Southee the backups.

Jayawardene over Bell, in SA conditions? Would also have Root (I know its early days) over Dilshan/Gayle, who have been pretty abysmal of late.

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Post by msp83 Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:11 pm

ShankyCricket wrote:
msp83 wrote:It has to be a toss-up between Swanny and Ajmal. They both are quality spinners, Swanny can bat better, Ajmal bowled well in the recent series against South Africa, Swann's had a few injury concerns in recent times. On another day, it could be Swann in and Ajmal the reserve. Or if they are playing in more spinning conditions, they both play and Siddle has to go out.
Or else we could put together an alternative world side and play a triangular.
Tillakaratne Dilshan
Chris Gayle
Kumar Sangakkara
Virat Kohli
Shivnarine Chanderpaul
Marlon Samuels
Mahendra Singh Dhoni
Stuart Broad
Graeme Swann
James Pattinson
Junaid Khan
Mahela Jayawardene, Ravichandran Ashwin, Mushfiqur Rahim and Tim Southee the backups.

Jayawardene over Bell, in SA conditions? Would also have Root (I know its early days) over Dilshan/Gayle, who have been pretty abysmal of late.
Bell's inconsistencies work against him, Mahela too has his issues, but he has an overall better record including a test top score of 374 against South Africa. Or may be I should bring in Misbah-Ul-Haque over both of them.

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Post by msp83 Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:12 pm

And Tamim Iqbal over Dilshan as the other opener.

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Post by gboycottnut Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:15 pm

An All-Australian World XI to take and give South Africa a hiding in a test match!

1  Watson
2  Rogers
3  Agar
4  Khawaja
5  Clarke
6  Smith
7  Haddin
8  Siddle
9  Starc
10 Lyon
11 Bird (The new Glenn McGrath!)

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Post by kingraf Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:18 pm

Seems an interesting line-up... They may just score 50... But I wouldnt put money on them.
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Post by LondonTiger Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:18 pm

With all their injuries and mental woes, South Africa could be on the downward slope already.

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Post by kingraf Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:28 pm

Dont think so, LT. We still have a few years left, Steyn probably needed the rest. Kallis' retirement is edging closer, but with Duminy bowling more overs, Vernon Philander improving with the bat, and Robin Peterson being a "bit of both" sort cricketer, I think we can navigate around that. Smith is being a bit more injury-prone, but he still has a few good years....
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:21 pm

Shelsey93 wrote:Tours to Asia will be dangerous for SA but this would be my squad to play them:

1. Alastair Cook (Eng)
2. Chris Gayle (WI)
3. Kumar Sangakkara (SL)
4. Kevin Pietersen (Eng)
5. Michael Clarke (Aus)
6. Virat Kohli (Ind)
7. Matt Prior (Eng)
8. Kemar Roach (WI)
9. Saeed Ajmal (Pak)
10. James Anderson (Eng)
11. Junaid Khan (Pak)

Reserves:

Jonathan Trott (Eng)
MS Dhoni (Ind)
Tim Southee (NZ)
Ryan Harris (Aus)
Graeme Swann (Eng)


Would have Trott over Pietersen in the side everyday of the week. As much as I like KP, think I'd prefer the solidness of Trotty
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Post by ShankyCricket Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:40 am

msp83 wrote:
ShankyCricket wrote:
msp83 wrote:It has to be a toss-up between Swanny and Ajmal. They both are quality spinners, Swanny can bat better, Ajmal bowled well in the recent series against South Africa, Swann's had a few injury concerns in recent times. On another day, it could be Swann in and Ajmal the reserve. Or if they are playing in more spinning conditions, they both play and Siddle has to go out.
Or else we could put together an alternative world side and play a triangular.
Tillakaratne Dilshan
Chris Gayle
Kumar Sangakkara
Virat Kohli
Shivnarine Chanderpaul
Marlon Samuels
Mahendra Singh Dhoni
Stuart Broad
Graeme Swann
James Pattinson
Junaid Khan
Mahela Jayawardene, Ravichandran Ashwin, Mushfiqur Rahim and Tim Southee the backups.

Jayawardene over Bell, in SA conditions? Would also have Root (I know its early days) over Dilshan/Gayle, who have been pretty abysmal of late.
Bell's inconsistencies work against him, Mahela too has his issues, but he has an overall better record including a test top score of 374 against South Africa. Or may be I should bring in Misbah-Ul-Haque over both of them.
Belly may be inconsistent but Mahela is just woeful outside the subcontinent. Please look at their respective records and I'm no Bell fan.

Yes, Misbah would be a good choice.

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Post by LondonTiger Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:10 am

kingraf wrote:Dont think so, LT. We still have a few years left, Steyn probably needed the rest. Kallis' retirement is edging closer, but with Duminy bowling more overs, Vernon Philander improving with the bat, and Robin Peterson being a "bit of both" sort cricketer, I think we can navigate around that. Smith is being a bit more injury-prone, but he still has a few good years....

We shall see. Since the Australians decline first India and then England climbed to the top of the tree, but their own frailties meant they fell away. Whilst SA are comfortably the best team in test cricket right now, there are so may areas of concern that I cannot see them maintaining that spot for a number of years.

Of course time will be the judge.

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Post by kingraf Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:25 am

I dont think any South African is expecting a West Indies-esque period of dominance, but with that said, we have a few things going for us that India didnt. India's batting line-up was built around players who were eighteen months from retirement & that includes Tendulkar... By comparison, after Kallis, our oldest top seven batsman is 33, so fitness permitting, everyone still has five years minimum left. Steyn at 30 is our oldest Pace bowler. We have an issue with getting a spinner, but when youre new ball bowlers take five wickets a match apiece, and one of them averages 21 in the Sub-continent... Its an issue that is very well hidden.
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Post by Guest Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:33 am

1.Alistair Cook (c)
2.Shikar Dhawan
3.Jonathon Trott
4.Shiv Chanderpaul
5.Kevin Piertesen
6.Misbah Ul-Haq
7.Matt Prior (wk)
8.James Anderson
9.Graeme Swann
10.Peter Siddle
11.Saeed Ajmal

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Post by kingraf Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:05 am

Im seriously beginning to struggle to differentiate between your'e and your :sigh:
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Post by king_carlos Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:50 pm

1.Cook
2.Gayle
3.Sangakarra
4.Pietersen
5.Clarke (c)
6.Bell
7.Prior (wk)
8.Swann
9.Ajmal
10.Roach
11.Anderson

It's actually surprisingly dificult to make a balanced side I like the look of without the likes of Smith, Amla, ABDV, Kallis and Steyn. The current SA side has some fantastic players but they are still short of a top spinner currently which may be their undoing in UAE.

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Post by kingraf Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:53 pm

Finally, someone who shares in my fear of that place. Seriously, have Pakistan even lost there?
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Post by Biltong Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:31 am

South Africa has never had a world class spinner, I think that horse has bolted.
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Post by mystiroakey Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:24 am

the pakistan series is going to be a no win situation.

if you win- the pakistanis would have underperformed and been inconsitant, if you win- you should win!!

the truth is those players are possibly the most skillfull in world cricket and can beat anyone without even looking that good

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Post by ShankyCricket Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:45 am

Looking at the number of people who have Gayle in their XI, I wonder if this has turned into an IPL thread. Tumbleweed 

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Post by mystiroakey Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:46 am

gayle in test cricket!

dont get it either. but ok!!


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Post by Stella Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:53 am

Not many good openers around bar Cook.
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Post by ShankyCricket Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:07 am

I'd move Trott or Pujara up. Root may be a novice at intl level but has still don far better than Gayle in recent times. Gayle's international record in all formats since the last World T20 is absolutely woeful.

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Post by Stella Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:10 am

Neither Trott or Pujara open, so you would be guessing. I'd probbaly have Dilshan in the sub con, tbh.
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Post by ShankyCricket Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:35 am

Still better than Gayle. Heck, I'd have even Warner ahead of Gayle.

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