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3rd Ashes test Old Trafford

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Post by Guest Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:19 am

First topic message reminder :

SQUAD

Squad Alastair Cook (capt), Joe Root, Jonathan Trott, Kevin Pietersen, Ian Bell, Jonny Bairstow, James Taylor, Matt Prior, Tim Bresnan, Stuart Broad, Graeme Swann, James Anderson, Chris Tremlett, Monty Panesar


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Post by msp83 Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:09 pm

Rogers is really taking the attack to the England bowling here. The openers have so far managed to put together 57 and Rogers has scored 39 of those.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:14 pm

These two have clearly been working hard and the pitch looks fairly easy at the mo.

Should be lots of runs in this game. Batting first looks a spot on decision and could well be the difference if these two can build a big partnership now.

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Post by JDizzle Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:15 pm

Just too many 4 balls this morning. England have bowled alright and created a few half chances, but they've just given away t0o many boundaries (36 out of 48 in boundaries for CR).

Saying that, Rogers has batted very well. 50 up. clap 

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Post by msp83 Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:16 pm

Rogers on fire, ripping Anderson apart in this over and reaches his 50 with the 3rd boundary of the over.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:19 pm

msp83 wrote:Rogers on fire, ripping Anderson apart in this over and reaches his 50 with the 3rd boundary of the over.

 Bad start from England.

If they've believed the press that this series will be easy then they will lose this one and holding the Ashes is by no means going to be easy.

 Aussie have a point to prove and are good enough to prove it if they get going.   These two could race a to a couple of hundred quickly.

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Post by alfie Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:21 pm

Good fifty for Rogers clap 

Played well this morning. Looks as if he likes batting on this pitch - suspect he won't be the only one. This should be a fairly high scoring affair I think...

Not for Watson though Smile  Bresnan strikes...

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Post by dyrewolfe Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:21 pm

Aussies off to a solid start and Rogers will be happy to get 50 on the board. Both have batted well (Watson more patient and Rogers more aggressive.

England's bowlers looking as threatening as a 5-year-old with a tennis ball.

I'll start getting worried if we haven't got a couple of wickets by lunch. If these two are still at the crease, I feel Aus will post 400-plus.
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Post by msp83 Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:21 pm

Bresnan gets Watson!. Australia 76-1. Watson gone for 19.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:23 pm

Trundler Timmy strikes again
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Post by Gerry SA Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:24 pm

Phillip Hughes should've retained his place ahead of Shane Watson.

Hughes is a far better opener and has been batting out of position.

Watson's not capable of converting starts.

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Post by dyrewolfe Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:24 pm

Whew! Something of a relief.

Bresnan gets Watson, caught by Cook for 19 and Aus are 76-1.

Another one before lunch would do very nicely.
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Post by trebellbobaggins Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:25 pm

yeah crucial to break that before lunch. Though Rogers is the one looking red hot.

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Post by Mike Selig Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:28 pm

I think the LBW issue created that wicket, because he didn't entirely cover the line, but I'm afraid for Watson that's typical of his series and to an extent his career to date. Gets in, looks fine, gets out to a nothing ball. For a guy who is meant to be one of Australia's key players that's not good enough. Has to start scoring big scores or Australia should invest in someone else IMO.

The sometimes unfairly maligned Bresnan does the trick.

Big test for the Aus middle-order now.

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Post by dummy_half Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:29 pm

Well, the Aussies kind of passed their first test, in getting off to a solid start. Interesting change with Rogers being the positive one and Watson trying to rein himself in, but it got them 70-odd on the board half an hour before lunch.

Now the next test is to see whether they can build on the start, or whether they will revert to type of losing wickets in clusters.

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Post by Mike Selig Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:32 pm

Good test, but also good opportunity for Khawaja. Most of the shine off the ball, but won't start reversing for a bit, and England ever so slightly on the defensive. Good chance to show what he can do.

Gerry, I would take it slightly more seriously if you didn't change your mind on who Hughes should replace every 5 minutes.

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Post by JDizzle Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:35 pm

I still think Hughes was harshly done by. Gets runs at 6, gets shoved up to 4, doesn't get runs, gets dropped. Very harsh for me.

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Post by alfie Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:37 pm

Well come on chaps we all knew Watson was due to come out about now didn't we ? Seriously , he and Rogers have made a bit of a start most of the time ; but just as here , Watson hasn't gone on. In the other games , the first wicket has brought more quite quickly...important half hour to come then...
Bresnan deserved the break , has bowled pretty well this morning. But I wonder if it might be a good idea to get Swann on to these two left handers with Khawaja just in..

And so does Cook , I see Smile 

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Post by Gerry SA Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:48 pm

Mike Selig wrote:

Gerry, I would take it slightly more seriously if you didn't change your mind on who Hughes should replace every 5 minutes.
Mike, Phillip Hughes is a career opener.

He's been shoved around the order so "golden boy" Watson can open.

Hughes first class record as opener is fantastic.

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Post by msp83 Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:49 pm

Khawaja given out one ball after he was struck on the pad and England chose not to review on a half-decent LBW shout. Khawaja has called for the review. And he's gone!.

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Post by alfie Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:50 pm

I am on record as suggesting Watson has probably already done all he ever will in Tests : he retains a place because Australia are not overburdened with class batsmen and because they find his medium pace bowling a handy asset. I have seen nothing this series to change my view.
While he remains a strong ODI player , I think his Test Match days are numbered.
Though if the rest of the batsmen keep failing...

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Post by Gerry SA Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:50 pm

A shocking decision.

Khawaja misses the ball by 6 inches and is deemed to have edged it.

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Post by hodge Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:50 pm

lol

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:51 pm

How on earth has that not been overturned? No hotspot, clearly no noise, no deviation, but out? Barmy
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Post by msp83 Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:52 pm

I have to say I am not convinced. DRS controversy yet again. Nothing on hotspot, nothing conclusive on slo-mo, and the Audio sound seems to have come before the ball passed the bat.

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Post by dyrewolfe Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:53 pm

Wow - lucky break for England?

Nothing on hotspot and the replays don't appear very conclusive.

Think Khawaja can feel hard done by there as the review goes in England's favour and Australia are are 82-2.


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Post by msp83 Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:53 pm

TMS team reckons had snicko been used, Khawaja might have been given not out.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:53 pm

These 3rd umpires really need to learn how to use technology
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Post by Mike Selig Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:53 pm

He's missed that by more than a centimetre. The noise happens half a second before he hits the ball. How can you possibly not overturn that? That's not DRS, which in this case has done its job perfectly and shown clearly that Khawaja has missed the ball. The issue here is human stupidity. Terrible decision.

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Post by alfie Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:54 pm

Poor Khawaja ! Thought that one would be overturned...

Looked out on first viewing , but with all the slow motion/hotspot/sound evidence to the contrary that was surely a case for a reprieve ? Warnie going spare in the box and you can see why !

This will fuel the Australian persecution complex re drs and these third umpires....

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Post by Mike Selig Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:54 pm

The noise is clearly the bat hitting the pad on the way through. And the front on view I'm afraid shows clear daylight between bat and ball. Australia should be fuming and rightly so. Disgrace.

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Post by Gerry SA Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:56 pm

I've not much of an Aussie fan

But I feel sorry for Khawaja.

Young player trying to make his way.

3rd umpire triggers him in an idiotic manner.

It could lose him his place in the side.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:56 pm

agree with Mike (and Beefy - which is rarer): that's a human error, not a technology one. You can see the gap between bat and ball, no noise (as it passes the bat), no hotspot. What does it take in that case to have a caught behind decision overturned?

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Post by dyrewolfe Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:59 pm

Agree with quite a few of the above posts. Technology not at fault here...just a terrible decision by the 3rd umpire.

Maybe some sort of compulsory testing is in order to make sure they are competent to use the various means at their disposal?
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Post by alfie Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:00 pm

The sight of Clarke seems to bring out the best in Anderson...good move by Cook to recall him immediately.
Very good over.

Australia won't want to lose another late one.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:00 pm

just seen snicko, and there's a clicking noise (roughly what an edge looks like), but it's after the ball passes the bat. Probably his gloves (which do make that same sound). I can only assume that's what the umpires (both on-field, which is understandable, and third ump, which isn't) have gone on...

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Post by msp83 Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:00 pm

A poor call from umpire Hill, but going by his recent umpiring form, we have to come to expect at least a couple of poor ones from him in each innings, but how on earth did Dharmasena gave that out?

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Post by Gerry SA Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:01 pm

This Michael Clarke isnt the same Michael Clarke who scored 4 x 200 in a calendar year.

The back problems seem to have taken something away from him.

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Post by Mike Selig Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:03 pm

I have to say live it looked out, but the first replay from front on for me is enough: clear daylight and the "click" which you heard live is not as the ball passes the bat; hotspot in this case a red herring, the audio and front-on replay should be enough to anybody with common sense.

The one criticism I have of the DRS is we don't hear the conversation between the 3rd umpire and the on-field umpire - it would be interesting: who leads? who asks what questions? What exactly does the 3rd umpire say?

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Post by dyrewolfe Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:04 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:just seen snicko, and there's a clicking noise (roughly what an edge looks like), but it's after the ball passes the bat. Probably his gloves (which do make that same sound). I can only assume that's what the umpires (both on-field, which is understandable, and third ump, which isn't) have gone on...

Snicko isn't available to the umpires (not part of DRS). Of course, they could have gone on any audio from the video footage.
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Post by msp83 Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:06 pm

The Australians might think they shouldn't really bother with the review system any more.

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Post by alfie Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:07 pm

Yeah that Khawaja decision will - unfortunately - be the main talking point today now.

Who is the TV umpire today ? Because I just cannot see why he wouldn't conclude that that should have been not out. You can see why the on field umpire gave it in the first place ; but with the advantage of all the replays etc you can be as sure as you need to be that he didn't touch the ball , so it should have been a classic case for drs doing what it is designed for...

As has been said , nothing wrong with the system there , just a bad decision from the TV umpire. And he is supposed to be on the "elite" panel ?

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:07 pm

Mike Selig wrote:I have to say live it looked out, but the first replay from front on for me is enough: clear daylight and the "click" which you heard live is not as the ball passes the bat; hotspot in this case a red herring, the audio and front-on replay should be enough to anybody with common sense.

The one criticism I have of the DRS is we don't hear the conversation between the 3rd umpire and the on-field umpire - it would be interesting: who leads? who asks what questions? What exactly does the 3rd umpire say?

this. As you see it live there's a "click" that sounds like a nick, roughly as the ball passes the bat (at live speed), on the replays it's fairly clear that click is slightly after the ball passes the bat, and is most likely his gloves. You also see a gap (not huge, but it's there) between bat and ball. For me that should have been plenty to overturn the decision, or else what is enough?

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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:07 pm

JDizzle wrote:I still think Hughes was harshly done by. Gets runs at 6, gets shoved up to 4, doesn't get runs, gets dropped. Very harsh for me.

Totally agree. Not only does Hughes not get to bat in his preferred position, he gets moved here there an everywhere.

Watson opening is causing issues for the Aussies. Others are not getting the chance and although some point to Watson been an excellent bat etc. Surely after 80+ Test Innings, we are getting to the point where what you see from Watson is what you get. An average opening Test Match opener.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:07 pm

Very poor decision. However, it is not the fault of DRS but poor understanding of technology by the third umpire. It was a human error not DRS error so lets get that straight.

In any case those anti-DRS should think on that without DRS it would have still been the same result - OUT. The error was human not technological.
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Post by msp83 Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:07 pm

Anyways the Australians end up with 92-2 at lunch. Even session with that 2nd wicket I would say.

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Post by GSC Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:09 pm

Lunch 92-2.

Aus session but England came back with 2 wickets
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Post by Mike Selig Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:10 pm

92-2 at lunch then. In fairness England have bowled a lot better since the first wicket fell, but that moment of injustice has made what would have been Australia's session fairly even.

What's the solution re DRS then folks? It is meant to eradicate the howlers, but so far in this series it has failed at that 3 times (Broad not out first test, Rogers out last game, Khawaja now), and produced a howler from a perfectly good original call (Trott first test). You can argue human error all you like (whether from the umpires or the players taking the wrong reviews) but the point of DRS was to eradicate the drastic human errors was it not? At the moment at that it is failing, so what's the solution?

More training and better training for the umpires with clearer directives is an obvious start.

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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:11 pm

Its looking like that if you are a batsmen given out caught behind, you are wasting a review if you decide to review.

That last wicket, based on the evidence must have been 90% Not Out, yet they stay with the on field umpire.

I agree with Craig, its not DRS at fault, its the application of it.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:13 pm

Perhaps get in people who understand the technology better rather than the dynamics of umpiring. If you will technology experts rather than umpiring experts.
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Post by dummy_half Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:15 pm

Very much Australia's game for the first 80 minutes or so - scoring at a very healthy rate and a solid opening partnership.

watson's wicket not that big a surprise - as Mike pointed out, after being trapped LBW so often recently, it was unsurprising that he didn't quite get over enough to cover the away movement and nicked behind.

From there though, England have done a good job of applying pressure by drying up the runs, even for Rogers. Hoever, by all accounts the Khawaja decision was a shocker - maybe not so much from the on-field umpire, but exactly the sort of error that the DRS system was brought in to get rid of.

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