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3rd Ashes test Old Trafford

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Post by Guest Sun 28 Jul 2013, 10:19 am

First topic message reminder :

SQUAD

Squad Alastair Cook (capt), Joe Root, Jonathan Trott, Kevin Pietersen, Ian Bell, Jonny Bairstow, James Taylor, Matt Prior, Tim Bresnan, Stuart Broad, Graeme Swann, James Anderson, Chris Tremlett, Monty Panesar


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Post by msp83 Thu 01 Aug 2013, 5:51 pm

Anderson back with the new ball, but Smith puts the first ball away for 4 with a fine shot. This partnership is stretching England a bit, they need to produce a moment of brilliance here pretty soon.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Thu 01 Aug 2013, 5:56 pm

Good toss to win and fine play.

Aussie should win this one and thankfully shut up the more arrogant members of the press.

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Post by msp83 Thu 01 Aug 2013, 5:57 pm

Wild slash from Clarke, but there not enough catchers to take advantage of. Broad's first ball with the new ball goes for 4 as well, but not a good effort from Clarke. Australia 277-3.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 01 Aug 2013, 6:03 pm

I do hope Anderson gets rested for Tests 4 and 5. He hasn't bowled well today, he's had multiple issues with his run-up, and he appears rather frazzled. Give England's finest a break!

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 01 Aug 2013, 6:21 pm

Duty281 wrote:I do hope Anderson gets rested for Tests 4 and 5. He hasn't bowled well today, he's had multiple issues with his run-up, and he appears rather frazzled. Give England's finest a break!

Give him the ODI and T20's off, not the tests
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Post by Mike Selig Thu 01 Aug 2013, 6:29 pm

It's been a very disciplined effort from Smith today. Came in with the game at a crucial stage, and after riding his luck a bit has done really well.

Anderson has been below par. I'm surprised Root or even KP haven't bowled a little bit more.

England desperately want a wicket in these last few mins.

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Post by GSC Thu 01 Aug 2013, 6:29 pm

Much better commitment and fight from Aus today. Brilliant innings from Clarke and good support from Rogers and Smith.

As for England, one of those days. Hasn't really gone their way, Khawaja wicket aside.
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Post by Duty281 Thu 01 Aug 2013, 6:35 pm

Hard day that for England. Australia have shown good spirit and resolve. England will probably be looking to keep Australia below 450/500.

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Post by Mike Selig Thu 01 Aug 2013, 7:22 pm

Credit to Australia and in particular Rogers, Clarke and Smith for the way they batted. After losing 3 wickets during the middle part of the day, they could have crumbled again, but with the odd slice of luck Smith played a gutsy innings, and Clarke is finding his feet.

For England, Bresnan plugged away nicely, and Swann got the odd one to really turn; Broad was short changed by his figures, he bowled a lot better than that, but Anderson was strangely off colour.

Prospects for tomorrow: England desperately need a couple of quick wickets to get back into things and try and restrict Australia to 400-450. Australia will be looking at Clarke to make it into a big one, and Smith to score his maiden ton to put them on their way to 500+.

Whilst the pitch looks flat, there is spin and just as importantly for Aus bounce so edges should carry. Runs on the board will add pressure to what can be a slightly fragile England line-up. I also think the pitch will get up and down as the game progresses. The path to a win for England lies in a KP special and/or an Aussie collapse to Swann 2nd time around.

Enough has been written about controversies surrounding DRS, but let me add my possibly final thoughts. I'm not sure about the Smith caught behind one, the noise could be an edge or it could be a loose bat handle. I completely understand why England reviewed both the decisions they did, and wouldn't blame Cook. I thought Hill should have given the first Smith LBW, and I still think DRS needs to have an easier borderline than 50% - that ball was really crashing into leg-stump and IMO those decisions should be overturned. Finally, I don't think you can say the system is working, or there is nothing wrong with the system, when it keeps on producing incorrect decisions - the argument that it is all human error is hiding your head in the sand. Whilst the system "works" in that it produces (even in this series) more correct decisions than you would have without it, it is clearly not optimal, and serious thought should be put into how to improve it.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Thu 01 Aug 2013, 7:24 pm

well played Aussie. That has slammed the door shut on whitewash nonsense and will ensure we get a good even series now.

now englands bowling has been examined and their batting has to stand up. Good stuff.

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Post by msp83 Thu 01 Aug 2013, 7:27 pm

It was a tough pitch for bowlers. No swing, not a lot of seam movement, and no substantial turn, though there was just that little hint of life. But then, Australia didn't need any real difficulty from the pitch to collapse big time in recent days, and so this has to rank as a pretty good effort. Michael Clarke is back among the runs, no big fan of his, but a terrific innings, a captain's knock from Clarke. Steve Smith is among few Australian cricketers whom I really like and nice to see him contribute. With David Warner slated to come in at 6, and with a decent platform, Australia should be looking to try and bat Endland out of this one. From this platform, I think they'll be disappointed if they won't score 500.
But the ball is still new, the likes of James Anderson usally can't be denied for more than a day. Swanny should find a little bit moe from the track on day 2. Australia are never too far away from a collapse, so England should striving to bowl them out for less than 500. If they manage that, and their batting too find the right going, England can still rest the advantage back.
But the first day of the match most certainly belong to Australia.

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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 Thu 01 Aug 2013, 7:27 pm

It was probably the best day for Aussies so far in the series. Rogers proved what he can do until a superb delivery showed him the pavalion's way. At the end it was a superb under pressure century from clarke and well supported by Smith. I would see a score past 450 from here.
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Post by Mike Selig Thu 01 Aug 2013, 7:30 pm

Warner is a bit of a danger man lurking, because if he gets going he'll move things on rapidly

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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 Thu 01 Aug 2013, 7:37 pm

Mike Selig wrote:Warner is a bit of a danger man lurking, because if he gets going he'll move things on rapidly
Agree here. He has already played a superb knock of 193 back in SA. If he starts get going, he would be really dangerous.
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Post by KP_fan Thu 01 Aug 2013, 7:48 pm

short summary: England up against it

Long Summary:

 
--England were so lulled by their own hype  following the comprehensive win in T2....that they forgot T1.
 
--T1 where inspite of losing the toss and chasing 4th.... Aus huffed , puffed scarmbled but came within a whisker of winning.
 
--T1 was indicator towards Eng's worst case scenario for T3......
what if Aus win the toss..?
and get some runs in first inning
and scramble in 2nd inning....and put 250+ chase for England on this spinning pitch
with their best spinner Lyon and a big turning leggie to contend with ???
--Instead Eng chose to ignore T1 scenarios....and looked at their best case scenario remembering T2...
and pitch was made to doctor's order....
and a bit like India did against England...in Nov Dec series last year.
 
England were lulled into believing that Aussies will fold over at the sight of an ugly turner.....
 
 
---but they failed to cover for what if we lose the toss?? and Aus bat well??
 
and Eng  failed to have the bowling compositon required for India like pitches..the 2nd spinner...badly missing Monty
 
--Now Eng are up against it.
 
the game is not lost by any means but an uphill battle...and the only thing that can make it easy again for England is a KP special  run a ball 160 odd like only he can and has been and due for one.
minus a KP-special it's an uphill battle.
 
--Aussies have played positive  cricket....expressed themselves throuhg natura strokes ands suddenly Anderson / Swann have looked so average...and Broad/ Bresnan trundlers.
Smith was my pre-series pick for the "next star born"......he ain't there yet but will be if he doubles his score tommorrow.
 
end of D1: game stands 70-30 in Aus favour..but a lot of play still left.
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Post by trebellbobaggins Thu 01 Aug 2013, 7:52 pm

or aussie just played well and none of that supposed arrogance happened kp.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 01 Aug 2013, 7:57 pm

Interesting that when England are not on top, KP_F makes no mention of DRS...censored 
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Post by LivinginItaly Thu 01 Aug 2013, 8:00 pm

Unfortunately I think kp_fan thinks he is being very clever with his "funny" comments and attempts to wind people up.....

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Post by Mike Selig Thu 01 Aug 2013, 8:14 pm

To be fair to KPF he raises some valid points (the problem is they are often raised in a tide of wummery which means it's hard to actually get to them).

Whilst I am certain that the England team won't have become complacent, there has certainly been a touch of complacency and even arrogance from some of the fans (including a couple on here) with the suggestion that England should give some of their players a rest, that this Aussie side is the worst of all time etc.

England are right to be confident: they have the better team. However I've said from the start that there is quality in this Australian side, and England are not THAT far ahead of them that they can afford to play poorly and still expect to win, and today has backed that up to some extent.

What happened in the last test was England played well (although not very well - there were still some issues) whilst Australia batted abominably, and bowled OKish (well, Harris and Siddle did). In the first test, both sides did some good stuff and some less good stuff. What happened today was Australia played to the best of their ability (their star batsman got a century, and was well supported by the senior campaigner who set the tone and their IMO brightest young talent who battled very well), while England due to an off-day from Anderson were below par.

Having said that, as I said, whilst some of the press and fans may have been getting a touch carried away I doubt that applies to the players.

KPF also has a point that perhaps England ought to have picked Panesar. Although he wouldn't necessarily have run through the Aussie line-up, the pitch would have suited him, and having someone turn it away from Clarke and Smith would have posed a different threat. Both are good players of spin. Also playing Panesar would have taken some of the burden off Swann and the seamers, as he would have gotten through a good number of overs.

IN any case, there's still a long way to go. Australia could collapse to 400 tomorrow and England move ahead on first innings and then let Swann exploit a wearing pitch.

But undoubtedly a good day for Australia, and from a neutral(ish) perspective this makes for a more interesting series.

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Post by KP_fan Thu 01 Aug 2013, 9:23 pm

agnew on BBC picks up on the same line of thouhgts.
It's India's pitch preprartion vs Eng that backfired on them all over again...

England bowled well but the pitch worries me. For a Test pitch in this country to be spinning as much as that on the first day only strengthens everyone's view. I am sure that it has been requested by England and made to order.

I know it has been dry but you can still use a hosepipe to water it. It is a perfectly fair pitch because it is the same for both sides. However, it just so happens that these dry pitches are favouring England.
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Post by Gerry SA Thu 01 Aug 2013, 10:30 pm

Fantastic innings by Michael Clarke. Leading from the front and his first hundred batting at 4.

Fine innings by the veteran Chris Rogers. Although not as good, he reminded me a little of Michael Hussey.

Steven Smith continues to impress. Batting is improving all the time. Needs to continue developing the leg breaks. Then Australia will have a fantastic all rounder.

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Post by msp83 Thu 01 Aug 2013, 10:43 pm

If England expect dry pitches would favor their gameplan better, they are well within their rights to go for that. In fact they should do very much that. No need to cover that up behind overstretched weather related arguments though. And more importantly, get the team selection right as well. Playing Panesar would have made more sense on a track that has bounce and turn.
Despite all that, I have to say I didn't see this track turning and bouncing all that significantly, though Swann did manage to do a few things with the ball on a first day track. But spin pressure from both ends might just have made a bit more difference.

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Post by KP_fan Fri 02 Aug 2013, 9:02 am

From an England point of view....they need a magic spell from anderson...like he has delivered a few in recent past..that rips out 2 to 3 wickets in a heap.......and helps restrict Aus to 380ish ( even that is a decent total).......bundle theem out within one session.

The problem is thouhg with the ball only about 9 overs old......he is not likely to get reverse first up in the morning and he hasn't shown any significant conventional swing at anytime.

In the worst case.....Aus might bat two session and then the total is looking more in the range of 500ish...an that might put win out of the equation for England.
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Post by mystiroakey Fri 02 Aug 2013, 9:08 am

380 is pushing it. we need to get them out for less than 500- and then just dont lose wickets. The weather has gone frieking nuts where i am - this game has draw writen all over it

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Post by kingraf Fri 02 Aug 2013, 9:11 am

Im backing Michael Clarke to score a double ton... Will be interesting to see whether the Aussie tail will feel moved to put a fight, coming in at 350-400/6, rather than 121/6
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Post by mystiroakey Fri 02 Aug 2013, 9:15 am

Porkpie gate!

classic bumble!

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Post by KP_fan Fri 02 Aug 2013, 9:26 am

mystiroakey wrote:380 is pushing it. we need to get them out for less than 500- and then just dont lose wickets. The weather has gone frieking nuts where i am - this game has draw writen all over it
 
precisely and exactly that mentality digs a hole and sinks team.
when you play for a draw at the end of D1 of a  test......defeat is the most likely option.
 
Eng's gotta believe they can win it still from here...play for a win.....and then let the game naturally meander towards a draw if it does.
 
win scenario for Eng:
 
--restrict Aust to 380 by firsts session on D2
--bat atleast 4 to 5 sessions and get a lead of 100 by tea-time or a little after on D3
--bowl out Aus for less than 300 by before end of D4...ball will be turning defnitely on D4
--chase 200 on D5
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Post by mystiroakey Fri 02 Aug 2013, 9:30 am

In actual fact - I may have misjudged the situation- It hasnt stopped thundering in london for the last 3 hours!!

Its a weird atmosphere. Maybe if some of this and cloud cover is up at OT then Jimmy may have the perfect conditions to bowl them out..



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Post by Scrumpy Fri 02 Aug 2013, 9:46 am

I fancy Aus to win this one, too many of the England players look like they are carrying small injuries imo.

But one thing I have learnt about this England team is that they don't give up but Aus are in a great position.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 02 Aug 2013, 9:49 am

Aus are favs at the moment if we are talking about wins only- thats pretty clear- they are half way into getting into a position where it would take a massive effort for england to win.. Also if an easy draw is on the cards eng are 2-0 up so wouldnt push for a win them selves..


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Post by Scrumpy Fri 02 Aug 2013, 9:52 am

A draw would mean we retain the Ashes with 2 games to go, I'm happy with that. Very Happy 
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Post by CaledonianCraig Fri 02 Aug 2013, 9:54 am

Like I said in the last test it is best to judge once BOTH teams have batted on the pitch and then a true picture forms. Sure Australia have got themselves into a strong position but there is a long way to go plus weather forecasts promise breaks in play.
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Post by guildfordbat Fri 02 Aug 2013, 10:06 am

Only saw the one hour highlights programme last night. Based on that, Australia had some luck* but made the most of it which is such a key part of the game.

Clarke and Smith are not Greenidge and Gomes (Wink - sorry, that was for regulars!) but played very well as a combo.

I think the calls for Panesar to have been selected could have more to do with being a bit desperate (rather than wise) after the event. I would only pick him as part of a 4 man Test attack if conditions were strongly in his favour - I'm not convinced they were at 10.30 yesterday morning.

Anyway, still a very long way to go. Two quick wickets this morning and the match will look very different.

* Have commented on DRS aspects on KPF's separate thread.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 02 Aug 2013, 10:56 am

Long way to go yet. England were 260-odd for 2 against South Africa after day 1 last year, before falling apart quicker than Arsenal's title challenge. The same thing can happen here. And even if it doesn't, it's a flat pitch and England only need a draw.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 02 Aug 2013, 11:00 am

Horrible weather forecast for Days 3 and 5, so a draw is the most probable result. A shame, but we have been blessed with near-perfect conditions for the first 2 tests.

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Post by kingraf Fri 02 Aug 2013, 11:17 am

Just seen Broad averages 37 under Cook's captaincy... Now I know Broad will never be dropped, golden child he is... But surely a time is coming for him to justify the Love-in?
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Post by Duty281 Fri 02 Aug 2013, 11:24 am

I would say he's bowled without luck in this test thus far.

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Post by Mike Selig Fri 02 Aug 2013, 11:24 am

Morning all,

Pitch still looks like it's got good consistent bounce.

Thought Broad bowled well yesterday without luck TBH kingraf. He was bowling very well a couple of years back (home series against India in particular but also was fantastic in the UAE) but fair to say he hasn't been that consistent since. He's still bowled the odd very good spell - including the one where he picked up Clarke in the Aussie chase in the 1st test - but if Anderson's off colour and he's not at his best (as happened at times against SA also) it poses problems. Not sure there's a better option though (although I am ready to be shouted out by the consensus that Onions has become one of the top 5 bowlers in the world since being left out of the side...).

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Post by alfie Fri 02 Aug 2013, 11:25 am

Well morning all ...what are we going to see today ? More of the same or quick wickets ?

See a lot of varied comments re yesterday. My own feeling was that it was a good toss to win and Australia (Clarke especially ) played really well , and apart from Khawaja had all the luck going as well. Thought the England bowling was pretty good most of the day - even the criticism of Anderson has been a bit overdone - he can't always work miracles on unhelpful tracks and if he bowled a few loose ones trying too hard to make something happen then that just shows he is only human. Calls for Panesar were inevitable but if Swann could manage just two wickets for the day , one a gift , I doubt he would have made a huge difference. Later in the match maybe , but if England are chasing 500 I think Bresnan's batting may be valuable too : you can't have everything !

Really England ought to be able to match the Australian score , more or less , and have everyone shaking hands on a draw on Monday - but we all know things don't always go that way , even on fairly benign pitches. I imagine a touch of Australian confidence gained from this batting effort will boost their bowlers too , so am not expecting England to have it easy.

Certainly only one team can win this match , barring a minor miracle. And I fancy the rare sight of a draw this time , but I am not putting money on it yet.

And if we can go through today without a mention of DRS I will be a happy man Smile 

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Post by Mike Selig Fri 02 Aug 2013, 11:29 am

Decent start from England, only 9 runs off 6 overs. Smith looks like he wants to get a bit of a move on, and has nailed two shots straight to fielders, which can be frustrating. Clarke still yet to score this morning.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 02 Aug 2013, 11:42 am

What a partnership this is!! best one of the series..

We need to strike!

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Post by kingraf Fri 02 Aug 2013, 11:43 am

For three straight matches I've put money on Clarke being man of the match... The odds have gotten higher everytime, early doors, but the 13/1 looks amazing right now!
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Post by kingraf Fri 02 Aug 2013, 11:45 am

Jimmy knocking stumps over, pity its with his boot and not the ball. Can't say I've seen James do that too often
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Post by kingraf Fri 02 Aug 2013, 11:47 am

Not sure you could call that a dropped catch, maybe a concussion evaded.
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Post by Scrumpy Fri 02 Aug 2013, 11:51 am

The crowd aren't helping, why bother going if your not going to cheer England on, we need the 12th man now!

I guess most of them are Man Utd fans?
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Post by kingraf Fri 02 Aug 2013, 11:54 am

Scrumpy - thats not fair. Most United fans don't live in Manchester
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Post by Mike Selig Fri 02 Aug 2013, 11:59 am

Hmmm... couple of balls have gone through the top.

England have been nice and tight this morning, but there's not much happening and these Aussies don't seem intent on throwing their wickets away.

Smith on unlucky 87...

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Post by Duty281 Fri 02 Aug 2013, 11:59 am

Australia doing well on a flat pitch, the real key to this game will be how England fare under a multitude of scoreboard pressure.

Reliable Tim has ensured once again that Australia haven't got away this morning.

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Post by KP_fan Fri 02 Aug 2013, 12:02 pm

England missing the pace and hit the deck hard of Finn

Englnad missing Monty too I'd like to believe.

Cook it seems is waiting for the declaration
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Post by Scrumpy Fri 02 Aug 2013, 12:03 pm

kingraf wrote:Scrumpy - thats not fair. Most United fans don't live in Manchester
 
Thats true.
 
C'mon England, time to earn your money Capt Cook.
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