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5th Test - Oval, Weds 21st August

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Post by LondonTiger Tue 13 Aug 2013, 2:03 pm

First topic message reminder :

With England having won the series, I wonder what changes we will see to the teams.

England
The batting, barring Ian Bell, is misfiring. Too many times batsmen are getting in, but getting out for cameo scores. Prior is struggling a little with bat and gloves, but as the new boy and without a big innings, Jonny Bairstow is most at risk.
The wickets have been shared amongst the bowlers. Onions was unlucky to miss out at Chester-le-Street, but having now broken a finger is ruled out for two weeks. Monty's well publicised indiscretion will not endear him to the management and Steven Finn will probably be left to regain form and confidence with Middlesex. On his own ground, Chris Tremlett may get a run out, especially if they feel that Anderson or Broad need a rest.

all in all I suspect that changes are unlikely.


Australia
The good news is that they may have found an opening pair. The bad news is that the middle order is desperately fragile unless skipper Clarke scores runs. Khawaja and Smith are both batting at least two positions too high and unless he is able to bowl, Shane Watson looks a waste of a spot. Possible chances of recalls for Hughes or Cowan at 3 - and consideration has to be given to Faulkner lower down as an all-rounder.
Bowling has stood up well, but in another horses for course selection we may well see Starc replace Bird. Australia will be desperate for Harris to stay fit.




England have not played very well so far, especially the batters, yet are 3-0 up. Australia have shown they can compete but seem unable to win, even against a faltering team. If England can actually play well we could see a real thumping, but the money men at Ca will hope their team can sneak a win to create interest for the return series.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 20 Aug 2013, 9:54 pm

KP_fan wrote:now there is little interest left in the series
Agreed. I'm more looking forward to the Arsenal game tomorrow.

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Post by Guest Tue 20 Aug 2013, 10:46 pm

I am so pumped. There's no better days at work than Ashes days, follow the BBC live text all day and have a sneak look on Sky Go every 5mins 5th Test - Oval, Weds 21st August - Page 3 3559488474

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Post by LondonTiger Wed 21 Aug 2013, 7:02 am

Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:now there is little interest left in the series
Agreed. I'm more looking forward to the Arsenal game tomorrow.
Must be a Spurs fan then? Run

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Post by VTR Wed 21 Aug 2013, 8:50 am

I am quite interested in this one. It's good for passing the time at work and I want to see if we can get the 4-0 which would be a great achievement.

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Post by sirfredperry Wed 21 Aug 2013, 9:13 am

So Starc is back, having played the first, third and now fifth Tests. For those who have had to ensure years of terrible maulings from Australia, this is almost beyond parody.
  England used to do the same thing with de Freitas, who, I believe, was recalled on a record number of occasions. Hick was dropped every year apart from 1994 in his first few years with England.
  Another parallel involves David Boon and Ian Bell. Both had comparatively modest starts to their Test careers but Border, for one, believed in Boon who kept his place and became a very fine Test player.
  Twenty years ago Bell would NEVER have played for England again after averaging 17 in the 2005 Ashes series. Now, in 2013, we are hailing one of the most influential batting performances in the whole of the England-Australia historic rivalry.

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Post by GSC Wed 21 Aug 2013, 9:15 am

@tmsproducer: Here is the full story with quotes attributed to Darren Lehmann - http://t.co/t0TfWPMMLT

Never fails to amuse me, the Aussies whining about non walkers when they practically invented the concept.

Lehmann might receive a bit of a slapdown privately for that
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Post by Guest Wed 21 Aug 2013, 9:21 am

Lehmann is a joke, I hope we boo Lehmann to high heaven today. Let's get the Barmy Army singing:

music Heeeeyyyyy Darren Lehmann, ooooooh, aaaaah, I wanna knowwwwwww, why your team is cr@p music

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Post by Stella Wed 21 Aug 2013, 9:26 am

Lehman asking the aussie fans to give Broad stick and make him cry. How old is he, ten?
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Post by GSC Wed 21 Aug 2013, 9:28 am

Exactly. It's a bit embarrassing from Lehmann really
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Post by VTR Wed 21 Aug 2013, 9:28 am

What idiotic comments from Lehmann. Also the crowd booing will probably spur a character like Broad on rather than send him into tears.

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Post by Stella Wed 21 Aug 2013, 9:29 am

VTR wrote:What idiotic comments from Lehmann. Also the crowd booing will probably spur a character like Broad on rather than send him into tears.
thumbsup 
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 21 Aug 2013, 9:31 am

Exactly VTR. This is the type of thing Broad will love. Spotlight's on him, he loves the big occasion.

Lehmann's just whinging because his team are gonna be the first Aussie side to lose in England 4-0
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Post by msp83 Wed 21 Aug 2013, 9:34 am

Hoping for a good contest. Would like England to win at the end of the day.
For England it has to be Finn back in for Bresnan. But indications are that Chris Tremlett is in with an equal chance to make a test comeback on his home ground.
I like the look of this Australian side. James Faulkner is a solid player. Right from the beginning of the series, I had maintained that playing him may not be a bad idea considering the horrendous batting unit Australia have got. It is unlikely that Faulkner could do any worse, and his bowling is quite handy. With Faulkner the bowling all-rounder and Watson the batting all-rounder, Harris should get some space as well so that he doesn't overstretch his fragile body too much.

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Post by KP_fan Wed 21 Aug 2013, 9:36 am

GSC wrote:@tmsproducer: Here is the full story with quotes attributed to Darren Lehmann - http://t.co/t0TfWPMMLT

Never fails to amuse me, the Aussies whining about non walkers when they practically invented the concept.

Lehmann might receive a bit of a slapdown privately for that
Whether a word as strong as cheating is applicable...is debatable....violation of Spirit of Cricket yes.

but more so exposed the hypocricy of Papa Broad since he banned "Poor ramadin" on the issue of " Spirit Of Cricket"

and anotehr egg on the face of ICC....who failed to clarify their discriminating positions on the Spirit of Cricket.

For a neutral viewer the series down under will be a lot of " Spicy Masala Fun" Hug 
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Post by Guest Wed 21 Aug 2013, 9:45 am

msp83 wrote:James Faulkner is a solid player.
This is what's gone wrong with Australian cricket, they have a team of 10 solid players + a world class batsman in Clarke. And on occasion, they don't even have 10 solid players!

I am desperate for Cook to score some big runs this Test. I'd love a double hundred + a quickfire 50.

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Post by VTR Wed 21 Aug 2013, 9:56 am

Olly wrote:Exactly VTR. This is the type of thing Broad will love. Spotlight's on him, he loves the big occasion.

Lehmann's just whinging because his team are gonna be the first Aussie side to lose in England 4-0
Well I suppose he has to put a story out there so the press don't write another article about the drubbing they are taking.

Contrast Lehmann's conduct to that of Chris Rogers on 5 Live last night, a man of class if ever there was one and definitely my favourite Aussie player now

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Post by Guest Wed 21 Aug 2013, 9:59 am

What did Rogers say VTR? All I know is that he's a good guy.

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Post by msp83 Wed 21 Aug 2013, 10:00 am

Azzy Mahmood wrote:
msp83 wrote:James Faulkner is a solid player.
This is what's gone wrong with Australian cricket, they have a team of 10 solid players + a world class batsman in Clarke. And on occasion, they don't even have 10 solid players!

I am desperate for Cook to score some big runs this Test. I'd love a double hundred + a quickfire 50.
The likes of Phil Hughes can't really be classed as solid. For me the overall package that Faulkner makes him a much better bet than the likes of Hughes who's country-made technique might click ones in 20 times.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 21 Aug 2013, 10:02 am

David 'Bumble' Lloyd ‏@BumbleCricket
Kerrigan plays

oooooo
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Post by KP_fan Wed 21 Aug 2013, 10:04 am

Monty swallows his pride...calls Cook to apologize.....and cook publicly acknowledges That " Monty's England Career is not over"

Positive vibes allround........Eng will need Monty when they travel to subcontinent again
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Post by VTR Wed 21 Aug 2013, 10:05 am

Azzy Mahmood wrote:What did Rogers say VTR? All I know is that he's a good guy.
Basically along the lines that you expect teams to play hard on the field and thats ok as long as there is no needle off it. Also that he doesn't get involved in any mouthing off and doesn't respond to it.

Other than that he just came across as a really likeable bloke who was enjoying playing for his country and making the most of it.

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Post by Guest Wed 21 Aug 2013, 10:06 am

Monty bowled quite tidily yesterday from what I've read, 34 overs, 1 wicket, economical. Shame the rest of our side couldn't take wickets either!

I've always liked Monty, he tried hard to improve his fielding, but his batting is still reminiscent of Phil Tuffnell's.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 21 Aug 2013, 10:07 am

Woakes and Kerrigan play. Seems thy are going against the grain and resting. Two spinners?
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Post by GSC Wed 21 Aug 2013, 10:07 am

Workes and Kerrigan in then. Suspect Swann rested
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Post by Guest Wed 21 Aug 2013, 10:07 am

VTR wrote:Basically along the lines that you expect teams to play hard on the field and thats ok as long as there is no needle off it. Also that he doesn't get involved in any mouthing off and doesn't respond to it.

Other than that he just came across as a really likeable bloke who was enjoying playing for his country and making the most of it.
That's good to hear, I know he said something about Matt Prior giving him stick behind the stumps. Glad to see at least someone on that Aussie team has enjoyed the series, even if the rest are moaning blighters.

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Post by VTR Wed 21 Aug 2013, 10:11 am

Interesting with the 2 new caps. Perhaps not going all out for the 4-0 then but will be good to see how they get on.

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Post by GSC Wed 21 Aug 2013, 10:15 am

Bairstow dropped. England play 5 bowlers

The apocalypse is nigh
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Post by VTR Wed 21 Aug 2013, 10:18 am

GSC wrote:Bairstow dropped. England play 5 bowlers

The apocalypse is nigh
No way would we do that if we needed to win the match but good to see some experimentation even if it takes a dead rubber to do it!

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Post by CaledonianCraig Wed 21 Aug 2013, 10:22 am

Lehmann, seems to me it is clear, is trying to motivate his players,the Australia team and the fans for the upcoming series in the winter. He'll realise that Australians enthusiasm for that series will be dented and morale may be low so he is calling for even negative emotions to come from the fans. He is also trying to fire up his own players at the same time.

I would say though we have seen more than just Broad hit it this series and not walk and yes some were Aussies. The only difference was that DRS was available, was used and the nick was discovered and they were given out. Is that also outside the spirit of the game?

As for Kerrigan and Woakes getting debuts - well if either are replacing Swann or Anderson it makes sense. Anderson looks burnt out and Swann had an injury (shoulder wasn't it) so give either a rest and look to the future as both Anderson and Swann move on to the twilight of their careers.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 21 Aug 2013, 10:29 am

Yeah seems to be Kerrigan and Woakes for Bresnan and Bairstow.

Interesting move. I like Woakes in first class stuff, hopefully he does well.
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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth Wed 21 Aug 2013, 10:30 am

GSC wrote:Bairstow dropped. England play 5 bowlers

The apocalypse is nigh
Wonder what all the old bowlers on TMS and Sky will moan about now....

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Post by Guest Wed 21 Aug 2013, 10:32 am

I say we smash their faces into a car windshield, and then take their mothers out for a nice seafood dinner and never call them again.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Wed 21 Aug 2013, 10:36 am

a very interesting selection from England, and not one I particularly agree with (never been a fan of the five bowlers route). Then again, Woakes is probably good enough to bat 7 in tests. It's his bowling I'm not massively convinced by, going on what I've seen in the games he's played in the shorter formats. Living in France I don't get to watch any county cricket, and going by all accounts he's a better bowler in the longer form, so maybe my doubts are misplaced. We shall get some idea anyway.

I think it's a little harsh on Bairstow, who hasn't had a disastrous series by any means, but maybe it will be the kick he needs to stop throwing away starts. The talent is there, the willingness to work also (he's already seemed to iron out a couple of technical flaws). Hopefully he'll come back stronger from this.

Best of luck to the new boys thumbsup

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Wed 21 Aug 2013, 10:37 am

Australia win toss and bat. So we'll most likely get to see the new boys in action today. Interested to see in particular how Woakes goes (suspect there won't be a huge amount for Kerrigan first up).

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Post by Guest Wed 21 Aug 2013, 10:39 am

England: Cook, Root, Trott, Pietersen, Bell, Prior, Woakes, Broad, Swann, Kerrigan, Anderson.

Australia: Rogers, Warner, Watson, Clarke, Smith, Haddin, Faulkner, Starc, Siddle, Harris, Lyon.

Anderson to open, Broad and Woakes to share the first few overs, then we see four hours of Swann + Kerrigan?

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Post by KP_fan Wed 21 Aug 2013, 10:40 am

Hmm...Eng playing 5 bowlers...2 spinners...lost the toss....aus will bat first.

given the pitches in England......Toss makes a lot of diffrence
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Post by Mad for Chelsea Wed 21 Aug 2013, 10:43 am

KP_fan wrote:Hmm...Eng playing 5 bowlers...2 spinners...lost the toss....aus will bat first.

given the pitches in England......Toss makes a lot of diffrence
Maybe, but England will feel that if they can bowl Aus out cheaply (not impossible given the series so far), then they will have a great chance of controlling the game by piling on the runs. Then spin comes into it later in the game. Basically the formula that worked in India...

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Post by Guest Wed 21 Aug 2013, 10:45 am

I hope for their sakes that Woakes and Kerrigan do well. It wouldn't be good for them or the future of the national side if the media pile on them after one poor game.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 21 Aug 2013, 10:46 am

Australia react to the toss

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Post by KP_fan Wed 21 Aug 2013, 10:58 am

Can someone help give a brief on Kerrigan's cerdentials leading into a surprise test debut
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Post by teassoc Wed 21 Aug 2013, 11:00 am

KP_fan wrote:Hmm...Eng playing 5 bowlers...2 spinners...lost the toss....aus will bat first.

given the pitches in England......Toss makes a lot of diffrence
It does seem the toss is very important. If I'm not mistaken England won all the tests at which they got the toss right and were only saved by rain in the one where they didn't. So on that basis Australia to win.

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Post by KP_fan Wed 21 Aug 2013, 11:02 am

I have little faith in Aus....they can collapse from any situation to lose.....mentally Eng have an iron grip on the competiton
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Post by msp83 Wed 21 Aug 2013, 11:03 am

Interesting selection from England. The moment they decided to play Kerrigan along with Swann, Woakes had to come into the mix, considering the kind of workload that Anderson and Broad have already undertaken. The top order has to take up far more responsibility with this selection. But if Woakes can come to the party with the bat in particular and offer a solid hand with the ball, this selection might have impact beyond this match.
I think Ben Stokes might take up that number 6 spot in the not too long run for England and offer them greater balance. A good showing from Woakes can be the building bricks for that path.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Wed 21 Aug 2013, 11:05 am

last couple of balls of that Anderson over swing a bit, promising signs at least. A maiden to start.

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Post by Duty281 Wed 21 Aug 2013, 11:09 am

Here's a song for you Mr. Lehmann:

"Can you hear the Aussies sing? Nooooo. Can you hear the Aussies sing? I can't hear a chuffing thing! Woahhhhh. Shhhhhhhhhhhhh!"

Such is the nature of Aussies fans. Anyway, I've clearly woken up into a parallel universe today, because England have picked 5 bowlers. If Woakes does play well in this test, and I certainly hope he does, maybe this will become a permanent thing?

Chris Woakes = Freddie Flintoff

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Post by Duty281 Wed 21 Aug 2013, 11:09 am

teassoc wrote:
KP_fan wrote:Hmm...Eng playing 5 bowlers...2 spinners...lost the toss....aus will bat first.

given the pitches in England......Toss makes a lot of diffrence
It does seem the toss is very important.  If I'm not mistaken England won all the tests at which they got the toss right and were only saved by rain in the one where they didn't.  So on that basis Australia to win.  
If memory serves correctly, the toss didn't matter too much in India.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Wed 21 Aug 2013, 11:11 am

ooo a very close LBW shout for Broad who's getting some swing. Umpire's call on whether it hit him in line, and England rightly decide not to review, but that was mightily close. For all the fighting qualities Rogers has shown so far in this series, you'd have to say he's had his fair share of luck too...

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Post by Guest Wed 21 Aug 2013, 11:11 am

Duty281 wrote:Chris Woakes = Freddie Flintoff
Not much expectation then? Laugh

I hope he does well, I like the kid. At 24 he could have 8-10 years at this level.

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5th Test - Oval, Weds 21st August - Page 3 Empty Re: 5th Test - Oval, Weds 21st August

Post by VTR Wed 21 Aug 2013, 11:15 am

Woakes is nothing like Freddie Flintoff. I'm thinking Dominic Cork myself, who was a very useful cricketer though some way short of world class

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5th Test - Oval, Weds 21st August - Page 3 Empty Re: 5th Test - Oval, Weds 21st August

Post by Duty281 Wed 21 Aug 2013, 11:15 am

Azzy Mahmood wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Chris Woakes = Freddie Flintoff
Not much expectation then? Laugh

I hope he does well, I like the kid. At 24 he could have 8-10 years at this level.
Well good luck to him. He has a very good FC record, averages 38 with the bat and 25 with the ball. I'll hold off on the Flintoff comparisons, but that sort of role is probably what Flower and Cook have in mind. And with Bairstow not really getting going at 6, Woakes does have a good chance.

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