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5th Test - Oval, Weds 21st August

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Post by LondonTiger Tue 13 Aug 2013, 2:03 pm

First topic message reminder :

With England having won the series, I wonder what changes we will see to the teams.

England
The batting, barring Ian Bell, is misfiring. Too many times batsmen are getting in, but getting out for cameo scores. Prior is struggling a little with bat and gloves, but as the new boy and without a big innings, Jonny Bairstow is most at risk.
The wickets have been shared amongst the bowlers. Onions was unlucky to miss out at Chester-le-Street, but having now broken a finger is ruled out for two weeks. Monty's well publicised indiscretion will not endear him to the management and Steven Finn will probably be left to regain form and confidence with Middlesex. On his own ground, Chris Tremlett may get a run out, especially if they feel that Anderson or Broad need a rest.

all in all I suspect that changes are unlikely.


Australia
The good news is that they may have found an opening pair. The bad news is that the middle order is desperately fragile unless skipper Clarke scores runs. Khawaja and Smith are both batting at least two positions too high and unless he is able to bowl, Shane Watson looks a waste of a spot. Possible chances of recalls for Hughes or Cowan at 3 - and consideration has to be given to Faulkner lower down as an all-rounder.
Bowling has stood up well, but in another horses for course selection we may well see Starc replace Bird. Australia will be desperate for Harris to stay fit.




England have not played very well so far, especially the batters, yet are 3-0 up. Australia have shown they can compete but seem unable to win, even against a faltering team. If England can actually play well we could see a real thumping, but the money men at Ca will hope their team can sneak a win to create interest for the return series.

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Post by Duty281 Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:25 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
teassoc wrote:
KP_fan wrote:Hmm...Eng playing 5 bowlers...2 spinners...lost the toss....aus will bat first.

given the pitches in England......Toss makes a lot of diffrence
It does seem the toss is very important.  If I'm not mistaken England won all the tests at which they got the toss right and were only saved by rain in the one where they didn't.  So on that basis Australia to win.  
If memory serves correctly, the toss didn't matter too much in India.
The genius of KP was so big in Mumbai that it overrode the toss advantage
And Kolkata?

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:28 pm

Woakes with another long-hop which is dispatched. Just hasn't quite got the consistency yet, is throwing in one or two poor balls an over so far and you can't do that at Test level.

There's one which is a bit too full, and is driven down the ground for four. Watson clearly targeting Woakes, and so far he's doing it very well.

Looks a superb pitch to bat on this one, must say.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:29 pm

Looks like Watson's on a mission.

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Post by msp83 Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:31 pm

Rogers has got a bit stuck at the moment. Watson is taking care of the scoring part so not a lot of worry there, but Rogers should at least get a few more singles a bit more regularly so that he doesn't put himself under pressure.

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Post by Guest Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:31 pm

I want him out. Come on someone.

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Post by Duty281 Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:32 pm

Here comes Kerrigan!

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Post by msp83 Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:32 pm

Simon Kerrigan with his first bowl in test cricket.
Shane Watson reaches his 50. A real positive hand from Watson.

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Post by Guest Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:32 pm

Woakes has 0-30 from five overs. Maybe Boycs was right?

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Post by Gerry SA Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:33 pm

No disrespect to Chris Woakes but his bowling isn't of Test/International quality.

Why's big lad Tremlett not playing at his homr ground?

Tremlett's top class(yes I'm bias to the Surrey man)

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:33 pm

Woakes has certainly added a yard of pace, just needs to be more consistent now. Although this pitch isnt helping his style of bowling, he likes it when its nibbling about
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Post by Mad for Chelsea Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:33 pm

on comes Kerrigan, hope he does better than Woakes has so far...

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Post by msp83 Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:35 pm

Watson is ripping into the 2 England debutants. Took on Woakes, and taking Kerrigan on in his first over itself.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:35 pm

Kerrigan looks really nervous, just trying to get the ball down there at the moment...

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Post by Guest Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:36 pm

Shane Watson does know this is Test cricket and not ODI, doesn't he? Shocked

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Post by alfie Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:37 pm

Rough start for Kerrigan. Ten off his first over.

Aussies thriving since Anderson and Broad came off. Think it is a mistake to have not had a few more from them in this first ninety minutes.

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Post by Guest Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:37 pm

Rogers looks like he wants to bat for 5 straight days. At this scoring rate he might get to his century sometime on Sunday.

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Post by msp83 Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:39 pm

50 of Watson's 58 runs have come in boundaries.

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Post by Gerry SA Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:40 pm

Azzy Mahmood wrote:Rogers looks like he wants to bat for 5 straight days. At this scoring rate he might get to his century sometime on Sunday.
The great Geoffrey Boycott is the only man to ever on every single day of a Test, Rogers would join elite company!

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Post by alfie Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:41 pm

Watson likes Kerrigan !

Or a deliberate plan to destroy him from the start. Which is working...

Problems for Cook.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:42 pm

Maybe Woakes didn't do that badly.

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Post by KP_fan Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:42 pm

England missing Monty.

Clarke, Yuvraj type parttimers would bowl better than Kerrigant
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Post by Mad for Chelsea Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:42 pm

brutal from Watson, who seems intent on destroying Kerrigan's career in one spell. Superb stuff from the batsman, a pile of absolute rubbish from Kerrigan. not good enough, sorry.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:44 pm

Kerrigan looks like he's sh1tting himself out there. Needs to relax a bit and find his rhythm.

Watson scoring runs is good news for us. Means the walking LBW will still be there down under
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Post by Guest Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:44 pm

Australia well set now, thanks to Watson's brilliant batting / England's new bowlers not being at the races. Like I said earlier, if they don't buck their ideas up, the media is going to ravage Kerrigan and Woakes.

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Post by VTR Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:45 pm

Well I don't see what is wrong with giving Woakes and Kerrigan a game. We need to learn something from this match, if its that one or both are not ready then that is fine

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Post by Gerry SA Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:45 pm

Kerrigan's a rookie on debut and he's mega nervous.

He'll get better and he's a quality young spinner

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Post by JDizzle Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:45 pm

Gerry SA wrote:
Azzy Mahmood wrote:Rogers looks like he wants to bat for 5 straight days. At this scoring rate he might get to his century sometime on Sunday.
The great Geoffrey Boycott is the only man to ever on every single day of a Test, Rogers would join elite company!
Freddie Flintoff has done this too. The polar opposite of Boycs!

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:45 pm

TBH I don't think Cook should have brought Kerrigan on at that point, it was clear what Watson was going to do. Surely Anderson would have been a better option?

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Post by msp83 Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:46 pm

Kerrigan has none for 28 in 2 overs. Woakes also going for plenty without really looking like picking up wickets.

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Post by Gerry SA Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:46 pm

VTR wrote:Well I don't see what is wrong with giving Woakes and Kerrigan a game. We need to learn something from this match, if its that one or both are not ready then that is fine
Test cricket isn't about giving someone a game

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Post by VTR Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:47 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:TBH I don't think Cook should have brought Kerrigan on at that point, it was clear what Watson was going to do. Surely Anderson would have been a better option?
Agreed - first session of the Test on a flat pitch as well. Ok he bowled some tripe but the most you could expect is a couple of tight overs, its hardly going to be turning for him yet

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Post by alfie Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:48 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:brutal from Watson, who seems intent on destroying Kerrigan's career in one spell. Superb stuff from the batsman, a pile of absolute rubbish from Kerrigan. not good enough, sorry.
Only two overs ! Bit early to say he's a total dud Smile 

Not the start you want to a career though. Let us see what he does when he next bowls.

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Post by msp83 Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:48 pm

England picked 5 bowlers with a view to also cut down on the workload of the 3 main bowlers, Anderson, Swann and Broad, but the way Kerrigan and Woakes are bowling at the moment, it looks like the 3 of them will have to yet again take up most of the responsibilities.

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Post by Guest Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:49 pm

And if you do give someone a game, you give one newbie a game, not two.

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Post by Gerry SA Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:51 pm

Azzy Mahmood wrote:And if you do give someone a game, you give one newbie a game, not two.
+1

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:52 pm

good comeback from Broad, Rogers still becalmed. England looking to work some reverse swing out there apparently.

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Post by Guest Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:54 pm

It's already looking like England's 5 bowlers approach has actually increased Anderson and Swann's workload, rather than eased it picard

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Post by msp83 Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:55 pm

Is Steven Finn released from the squad so that he can do something meaningful?

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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:55 pm

msp83 wrote:And if we stick to the under-30 bowling average to class someone as world class, then James Anderson won't quite make it. Stats don't tell the entire story, particularly with a player like Andrew Flintoff.
Absolutely, stats don't always tell the whole story Flintoff's bowling by and large was world top class for an all-rounder, his batting for the most part wasn't.


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Post by Duty281 Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:56 pm

Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
teassoc wrote:
KP_fan wrote:Hmm...Eng playing 5 bowlers...2 spinners...lost the toss....aus will bat first.

given the pitches in England......Toss makes a lot of diffrence
It does seem the toss is very important.  If I'm not mistaken England won all the tests at which they got the toss right and were only saved by rain in the one where they didn't.  So on that basis Australia to win.  
If memory serves correctly, the toss didn't matter too much in India.
The genius of KP was so big in Mumbai that it overrode the toss advantage
And Kolkata?
Out of time KP_fan. The answer was the genius of England's best batsman, Alastair Cook.

As for now, Kerrigan was pretty awful, and Woakes was below-average. Lots of time to improve though.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:57 pm

there's a hint of reverse. LBW time?

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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:58 pm

JDizzle wrote:Geoffrey Boycott: 'Chris Woakes's bowling wouldn't trouble my mum'.

Good to see Boycs is giving him a fair chance.
Boycs has become a parody of himself.

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Post by KP_fan Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:59 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
teassoc wrote:
KP_fan wrote:Hmm...Eng playing 5 bowlers...2 spinners...lost the toss....aus will bat first.

given the pitches in England......Toss makes a lot of diffrence
It does seem the toss is very important.  If I'm not mistaken England won all the tests at which they got the toss right and were only saved by rain in the one where they didn't.  So on that basis Australia to win.  
If memory serves correctly, the toss didn't matter too much in India.
The genius of KP was so big in Mumbai that it overrode the toss advantage
And Kolkata?
Out of time KP_fan. The answer was the genius of England's best batsman, Alastair Cook.

As for now, Kerrigan was pretty awful, and Woakes was below-average. Lots of time to improve though.
and Cook at Kolkata...but those were innings and perofrmances of the life-time....and a one in 30 year series result.
you can't expect those performances all the time you lose toss
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Post by KP_fan Wed 21 Aug 2013, 12:59 pm

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:
JDizzle wrote:Geoffrey Boycott: 'Chris Woakes's bowling wouldn't trouble my mum'.

Good to see Boycs is giving him a fair chance.
Boycs has become a parody of himself.
he sounds so senile......defnitely over the hill by a long way
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Post by alfie Wed 21 Aug 2013, 1:00 pm

msp83 wrote:England picked 5 bowlers with a view to also cut down on the workload of the 3 main bowlers, Anderson, Swann and Broad, but the way Kerrigan and Woakes are bowling at the moment, it looks like the 3 of them will have to yet again take up most of the responsibilities.
Was always a risk. Think they are getting a bit too obsessed with spin. Swann is class , but I am not sure any other spin bowler was going to worry the Aussies.

Certainly reckon Cook has got it wrong in this first session turning to spin so early. Watson and Rogers were under pressure early on , and it would have been better to use Woakes to assist Anderson and Broad to keep that pressure on for most of the session.
If they had grabbed another wicket or two it would have compensated for any workload issues...as it is they are going to be working overtime later !

Excellent session for Australia.

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Post by Guest Wed 21 Aug 2013, 1:00 pm

I can't remember ever seeing a scorecard so lop-sided. Rogers 21, Warner 6, Extras 5, Watson 80. Astonishing.

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Post by msp83 Wed 21 Aug 2013, 1:00 pm

They have boundary riders for Watson and so the scoring has come down just a little bit. Lunch is just a couple of minutes away, Australia wouldn't want to lose at this point. England would absolutely love to separate these 2 before the end of the session.
Hundred partnership between Rogers and Watson. They enjoy batting together don't they?

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Post by Duty281 Wed 21 Aug 2013, 1:01 pm

Well I'm certainly not expecting much, or indeed anything, from England in this game. Mind you, avoiding defeat in this game will put England to second in the world - where they belong.

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Post by msp83 Wed 21 Aug 2013, 1:01 pm

Australia 112-1 at lunch. Well and clearly Australia's session.

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Post by Guest Wed 21 Aug 2013, 1:02 pm

Good points being made re: Johnny Bairstow. He's been very shoddily treated by England these last 12 months. Should not have been dropped today either.

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