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England vs Australlia 2nd ODI

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JDizzle
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Post by NickisBHAFC Sun 08 Sep 2013, 10:19 am

Great start!!!!!!!!

0-2 of 0.5 overs.

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 08 Sep 2013, 10:23 am

Amazing start-

what!!

back to 0-1

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Post by NickisBHAFC Sun 08 Sep 2013, 10:24 am

I thought Watson bat hit the pad there.

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 08 Sep 2013, 10:28 am

TBH i think it was out- but very tough to prove so fair enough. I am all for giving batters the Benefit of the doubt

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Post by Mike Selig Sun 08 Sep 2013, 10:31 am

Excellent some more DRS controversy!

For what it's worth I'm fairly sure Watson hit the ball and not his pad. Where the bat would have hit the pad (indeed where there was a slight mark on the boot on the off-side hotspot) was a lot lower on the bat than the mark on hotspot. The mark on hotspot is the right height for bat on ball. Moreover the mark on hotspot looked too clear to be bat on pad which tends to be a lot more muddled. Also, I think you can pick up a bit of an inside edge from the front on view.

HOWEVER... I am not at all sure that given the evidence it should have been overturned. There have been IMO clearer decisions which haven't been this summer. Which goes back to clearer guidelines...

Finally, why can the commentators hear what is being said between the 3rd umpire and the standing umpire and not us? Surely that should change. Rugby Union say has gained a lot from the spectators being able to listen to the ref.

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Post by alfie Sun 08 Sep 2013, 10:42 am

Murky one...I didn't think he hit it , myself...but in any case I don't think there was enough evidence to say the original decision was clearly wrong.
Think that is the sort of third umpire intervention we could do without.

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Post by Mike Selig Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:07 am

Watson has looked a bit all over the place, but England have bowled a few too many slot balls (either full or short) and he's been able to take advantage.

Finch looks in good touch (cue dismissal).

Pitch looks a bit two-paced to me, Bopara could be useful with his cutters, and McKay could do well too. Not sure about bowling first, it may get slower as things go on. Not a pitch you want to be too full on, and slower balls at the death rather than yorkers may be the go-to option.

England look a bowler light still.

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:12 am

That was deffo out!

what is going on!

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:14 am

It has been given..

2 wickets down

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Post by Mike Selig Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:19 am

Another interesting one. Clear sound which to me sounds very much like an edge. Nothing else, nothing on hotspot (not conclusive) and as far as I can see no evidence of change in ball rotations on the way through.

Personally I think he probably hit it. Enough evidence to overturn the original not out decision? Not so sure...

Watson's initial throwing of his head back suggests disappointment so he also seemed to think he'd hit it. Then on viewing the various replays he thought he could get away with it.

In both cases I feel the right decision has eventually been made, but in both cases I feel that under the current system the decision was incorrect. Make of that what you will.

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:23 am

I think both decisions have been made well.

I think the original one was out but not conclusive- the later one had much clearer evidence- sound, snicko, the original had this evidence but the problem of the pad at the same time..

Batsman imo gets the benefit of doubt not the umpire. Therefore very happy with the way they were made- that has been the deciding factor. We can't however blame the on field umpire- Tough decisions to make with the naked eye!

Well done so far umpire team!

I understand Your thoughts Mike- Its based around the current LBW laws- The umpire gets the benefit of doubt in that so if they did it the same way in regards to knicks it would remain consistent. And if that was the case neither decision would have been overturned.


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Post by guildfordbat Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:28 am

Morning folks and evening Alfie,

The Watson dismissal was certainly interesting as Mike says. Tend to agree with his thoughts on the matter.

Also, SKY several times showed a replay of the incident with the sound recording clearly and loudly suggesting a nick. However, there was no sound at all heard of the ball landing in the keeper's gloves. Just made me wonder how much SKY had turned up the first sound and how 'true' it was. I'm not suggesting skullduggery, just throwing something else into the mix which perhaps makes matters less clear than they initially seem.

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:29 am

"Also, SKY several times showed a replay of the incident with the sound recording clearly and loudly suggesting a nick. However, there was no sound at all heard of the ball landing in the keeper's gloves. Just made me wonder how much SKY had turned up the first sound and how 'true' it was. I'm not suggesting skullduggery, just throwing something else into the mix which perhaps makes matters less clear than they initially seem."

Come on mate. Thats a bit delusional.


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Post by mystiroakey Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:31 am

I will add we always hear the ball hit the bat and hardly hear it hit the keepers gloves- this is to do with the softness of the gloves compared to the hardness of a bat and where the microphone is positioned!

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:33 am

Thoughts on the actual match!!!!

Aus going along pretty decent- 290-310 is should be what they will be looking at

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Post by msp83 Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:34 am

Good to see England giving Stokes another opportunity. And happy to see Kevin Pietersen slated to open the innings.

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Post by alfie Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:34 am

Tend to agree with Mike re the caught behind. So I suppose one way or another it all evens out...sort of. And Watson has thirty odd more than he maybe should have so he shouldn't be complaining.
I would have left both original decisions stand. But it has given everyone something to talk about Smile 
Do think they need to make the guidelines for third umpires clearer though.

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Post by msp83 Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:35 am

And DRS is back again on conterversial land.......

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Post by alfie Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:36 am

Now Tedwell reviewing !

But not out...just.

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:37 am

The umpires make strides and look at the situation at hand and base it on the evidence rather than not overturning a decision and you lot think its a bad way of going about things!!

I don't know what is up with you lot but its mind boggling to me..!!

the on field Umpire should never ever ever get the benefit of the doubt! end of story and I am very glad there have upped the umpiring standards in this match! yet you lot want to whinge!


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Post by alfie Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:40 am

Even with two down , Australia are going along pretty well and a big score is on.
England bowling looks thin. Nothing I have seen so far to suggest Stokes is a serious bowling option at this level...I know he has a lot of fans , who have seen much more of him than I : but that is my initial impression. To me he is just there to do what Bopara does already , and I don't think we need two of them.

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:42 am

Bop is in as a batsmen that can bowl alfie. Stokes is in as a bowler that can bat a bit(and only on a trial in reality)

This is not our top odi team, we are trying players out and only a mad man would drop Bopara at the moment

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Post by alfie Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:44 am

mystiroakey wrote:The umpires make strides and look at the situation at hand and base it on the evidence rather than not overturning a decision and you lot think its a bad way of going about things!!

I don't know what is up with you lot but its mind boggling to me..!!

the on field Umpire should never ever ever get the benefit of the doubt! end of story and I am very glad there have upped the umpiring standards in this match! yet you lot want to whinge!

Love your DRS , don't you , roakey ? Smile 

Matter of taste , I guess...I am not too exercised over it. Just seems to take up a lot of time , without doing much to decrease disagreements...

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Post by alfie Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:48 am

mystiroakey wrote:Bop is in as a batsmen that can bowl alfie. Stokes is in as a bowler that can bat a bit(and only on a trial in reality)

This is not our top odi team, we are trying players out and only a mad man would drop Bopara at the moment
No , I don't want to drop Bopara ! Heavens , no ...just saying I suspect Stokes isn't good enough to be seen as a bowler first...hope I am proved wrong : as you say , only a trial. But I fear playing him as third seamer is putting too much on him - he really should be tried as fifth bowler , to share ten overs perhaps...and that spot really isn't open...

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:49 am

I just cannot understand the overriding view on this forum in regards to DRS.

Tech/drs/udrs is here to make more right decisions. What we have witnessed is one incorrect decision made right, and one where not enough evidence was there to suggest we could give watson out(the first one). Therefore IMO two incorrect decisions made right!

The system is working and yet people still want to whinge..

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:50 am

I agree with you alfie. I am not sure about stokes, I wanted broad back and to treat this series like a real competitive match up!. Who else would you have played considering we are resting the test lads?

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Post by msp83 Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:51 am

mystiroakey wrote:The umpires make strides and look at the situation at hand and base it on the evidence rather than not overturning a decision and you lot think its a bad way of going about things!!

I don't know what is up with you lot but its mind boggling to me..!!

the on field Umpire should never ever ever get the benefit of the doubt! end of story and I am very glad there have upped the umpiring standards in this match! yet you lot want to whinge!

Aleem Dar seems to have gone with the evidence he was presented with and didn't accord overriding importance to the onfield call. The end result was a couple of correct decisions. The only possible controversy is that whether this should be the consistent approach throughout the game. As mysti says, benefit of doubt to the batsman and not the umpires, that has been the tradition of the game as well.

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Post by msp83 Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:53 am

Finch has hold out just when the partnership was looking dangerous.

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Post by Mike Selig Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:54 am

mystiroakey wrote:The umpires make strides and look at the situation at hand and base it on the evidence rather than not overturning a decision and you lot think its a bad way of going about things!!
Not necessarily a bad thing, but out of line with current guidelines and past practice, so to that extent at the very least confusing.

Tight LBW on Finch. Original impression was pad first, but maybe outside the line, so not out fair enough from the umpire. If however we are talking about getting more decisions right without regard for the umpire's feelings then based on the replays...?

Going to guildford's point, it is an interesting one, but don't forget the sound is picked up from the stump microphone which has been designed with picking up sounds around the bat in mind. A sharp edge should register loudly on the stump mike because of its position (less than a metre from Watson's bat, compared with about 20 yards from the keeper), whereas the duller thump of ball hitting the keeper's gloves (if the keeper takes the ball well it should be very quiet because he has absorbed the ball) less so. But it does raise the problem of leaving technology in the hands of the host broadcaster (which I have raised before).

Onto the game. Tredwell getting some stick which is worrying for England because they need 10 overs out of him, and another 10 from a Stokes-Root combination. Bopara doing a good job which will help. England will want to keep Finn back for the PP and some death overs, possibly Bopara too. If Australia can get after Tredwell as well as the Stokes-Root option, then they are giving themselves a good chance of mounting a serious score.

I would say it's a 270-280 pitch rather than 300+ personally.


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Post by guildfordbat Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:55 am

Important wicket. One more soon and we'll be well on top despite Australia having a good run rate.

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:55 am

Exactly that Msp. The concern is the way the LBW ruling does give the benefit of doubt to the umpire still. Which makes this inconsistent.,. But we both want the LBW ruling changed so from our point of view this is progress.

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Post by JDizzle Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:57 am

Need to Clarke out though. He's playing Tredwell with ease and looking in really good touch whilst doing it.

Stoke back, bowling at good speeds too. Touching 85mph.

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Post by Mike Selig Sun 08 Sep 2013, 11:59 am

Some people may call that an unnecessary shot, but I'm not sure I agree. Australia were looking to get after Tredwell, and it's what I would call a slot ball (basically a half-volley). They talk nowadays at international level about hitting slot balls for 6, which is what Finch tried to do, aiming between the 2 deep fielders. Poor execution rather than poor shot selection if you ask me.

Clarke and Bailey need a partnership to give Australia a platform. The good news from Australia's point of view is their run-rate is high enough so they can have a few quieter overs.

Stokes back on.

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 08 Sep 2013, 12:00 pm

" but don't forget the sound is picked up from the stump microphone which has been designed with picking up sounds around the bat in mind. A sharp edge should register loudly on the stump mike because of its position (less than a metre from Watson's bat, compared with about 20 yards from the keeper), whereas the duller thump of ball hitting the keeper's gloves (if the keeper takes the ball well it should be very quiet because he has absorbed the ball) less so."

yes

"I would say it's a 270-280 pitch rather than 300+ personally"

yes i think if Aus get over 280 they will be favs, any less england will just shade it



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Post by JDizzle Sun 08 Sep 2013, 12:01 pm

I think it was a bit fuller than slot Mike, which is why Finch couldn't quite get underneath it. It's easy to say in hindsight he shouldn't have played that shot, but he was going well and they were attacking Tredwell. Worth the risk IMO.

Good over and good pace from Stokes.

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Post by alfie Sun 08 Sep 2013, 12:01 pm

Roakey : re Stokes...I would rather have seen a genuine third bowler play ; from this squad I guess Overton.
Stokes could play in place of a batsman when they want to rest one ; get a decent hit , bowl under less pressure...he must be good enough with the bat if people talk of him as a potential number six in Tests !

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Post by alfie Sun 08 Sep 2013, 12:02 pm

Finch's job to hit sixes...fair enough to go for that. Plenty more batsmen in the hutch...

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 08 Sep 2013, 12:03 pm

So maybe thats why we are trying stokes out- In desperation to have the new true allrounder!

Not sure if he is a flinty let alone a collingwood but hey I don't really know enough about him!


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Post by mystiroakey Sun 08 Sep 2013, 12:03 pm

alfie wrote:Finch's job to hit sixes...fair enough to go for that.  Plenty more batsmen in the hutch...
Spot on!


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Post by msp83 Sun 08 Sep 2013, 12:04 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Exactly that Msp. The concern is the way the LBW ruling does give the benefit of doubt to the umpire still. Which makes this inconsistent.,. But we both want the LBW ruling changed so from our point of view this is progress.
Can't really call it progress Mysti, so long as the powers that be provide this right position the official sanction. But perhaps umpire Dar's actions might inspire the administrators to make this the official rule.......

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Post by msp83 Sun 08 Sep 2013, 12:08 pm

Stokes seems to have more pace than Bopara does. I actually like England giving him a bit of a run, though he bats a position too down in my view. Buttler should bat ahead of him only in the event of only less than 6-7 overs remaining.

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 08 Sep 2013, 12:13 pm

England haven't been able to kill the rate at any point in this game- The wickets haven't helped.. So If we want an easy win we must get them all out!


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Post by JDizzle Sun 08 Sep 2013, 12:13 pm

Another good over from Stokes. Beat the bat a few times there and hit the pitch hard. Up to 88.8 mph in that over!

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 08 Sep 2013, 12:13 pm

Is that only one boundary of stokes!!

Decent

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 08 Sep 2013, 12:14 pm

Bop needs to stop bowling down leg. Come on mate keep it tight! strangle the rate

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Post by Mike Selig Sun 08 Sep 2013, 12:15 pm

First look I've had at Stokes in a couple of years or so. I like his action, it looks strong and repeatable, he hits the pitch hard, gets good bounce and decent pace from a good height. It's not there yet, it's not all integrated but he has progressed hugely since the last time I saw him bowl. There are a lot of very good components there, and no doubt England will carry on working hard with him.

So what's his potential? At the moment he is a 4th seamer, but certainly I would rate him at the moment higher than Woakes on the potential 3rd seamers list. Haven't seen him bat this year yet, but if he has the ability to play at 6 or even 7, he could be the genuine all-rounder England seemingly are looking for.

Quality over just then.

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Post by alfie Sun 08 Sep 2013, 12:16 pm

Yeah Stokes is working on changing my mind with the last couple of overs ...good pace , as msp says , and he has beaten the bat a few times there...
Probably good captaincy from Morgan to get him off early and bring him back with ghe aggressive Finch out. Let us see how he goes on from here.

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Post by JDizzle Sun 08 Sep 2013, 12:20 pm

Just got too full with the last ball there.

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 08 Sep 2013, 12:25 pm

We have just jinxed stokes !!

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Post by guildfordbat Sun 08 Sep 2013, 12:28 pm

Australia currently looking on for around 300 but a couple of quick wickets would pull that back considerably ....

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