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Tuesday qualifiers

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Post by Liam Mon 09 Sep 2013, 12:51 pm

First topic message reminder :

Macedonia vs Scotland (7:30)
Wales vs Serbia (7:45)
Ukraine vs England (7:45)
Austria vs ROI (7:45)

As a welsh man i'm not holding out for too much against Serbia. We're without joniesta and williams so it means there's even more pressure on Ramsey to pull something out the bag again. Hopefully Coleman's team selection and tactics improve and we're more positive against Serbia. If we'd gone for it we would've won in Macedonia. Fingers crossed bale get's 15 mins at least.

Tough games for England and ROI, I expect England to get a point at least or maybe sneak a win.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 12 Sep 2013, 2:31 pm

capello had 8 draws in 50 odd, yes he had 6 loses but he had about 40 wins.

Roy has had only 20 games(only 1 loss) but 8 draws!!


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Post by mystiroakey Thu 12 Sep 2013, 2:32 pm

Stella wrote:We did get a bit lucky in that Spain game. They had a goal disallowed which was a yard on side.
1 game.. yep that counters it doesnt it Shocked 

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Post by Stella Thu 12 Sep 2013, 2:32 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Well i would argue that our results(at the moment) is deffo something to worry about.

The 4 draws in 8 games is shocking tbh. Why the heck has hodgson continued this tourny approach into the qualifying is beyond me. These teams are not ITALYS!!!
Unbeaten and top of the group is fine though. We just haven't looked convincing.
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Post by Mat Thu 12 Sep 2013, 2:32 pm

Roy's doing a fine job with, what is quite frankly, an average group of players.

A 0-0 draw with Ukraine was a good result as it was vital we didn't lose the game and control of the group. We've done pretty well at Wembley under Roy and I expect us to win the last two games when we actually have several of our first choice players back in contention.

There's not a chance we'll win the world cup, doesn't matter who the manager is. Redknapp, Hodgson, Mourinho, Guardiola, Ferguson-none of them would win the world cup with this group of players. Getting to the quarter finals would be a major achievement imo, which is a sad reflection the current state of English football.

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Post by John Cregan Thu 12 Sep 2013, 2:33 pm

To be fair, im pretty neutral on England (despite being Irish!). I see no reason why England could not win a WC or an EC..........after all Chelsea beat Barca & Bayern to win a CL.

You don't have to control posession to win a game of football and England have other qualities. Hodgson is doing a decent job and Lineker's criticism is pretty ill-informed. Although, i've always felt that Lineker posesses very little knowledge of the game anyway.

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Post by Stella Thu 12 Sep 2013, 2:34 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
Stella wrote:We did get a bit lucky in that Spain game. They had a goal disallowed which was a yard on side.
1 game.. yep that counters it doesnt it Shocked 
I never said any different. There may have been more, can't remember.
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 12 Sep 2013, 2:34 pm

Stella wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Well i would argue that our results(at the moment) is deffo something to worry about.

The 4 draws in 8 games is shocking tbh. Why the heck has hodgson continued this tourny approach into the qualifying is beyond me. These teams are not ITALYS!!!
Unbeaten and top of the group is fine though. We just haven't looked convincing.
too many draws against very average opposition tbh.

the draw v moldova was especially shocking.

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Post by GSC Thu 12 Sep 2013, 2:35 pm

I gave Roy a pass for the Euros, but England have gone nowhere since. Mentality is poor, must be some reason why the likes of Wilshere, Carrick, Lampard and Gerrard all lose the ability to make passes at international level.
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Post by Stella Thu 12 Sep 2013, 2:37 pm

Roy always looks like he's walked straight out of an alzheimers clinic. He's ok but he never looks like he inspires. Just looks a little lost
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 12 Sep 2013, 2:39 pm

He is good manager- but its clear to me that the england team doesn't need to be playing this sterile boring game of football. We just need a man manager that sets us up a bit more attacking

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Post by GSC Thu 12 Sep 2013, 2:39 pm

I think hes a bit outdated at the top. The England job is a bit of can't win scenario, but I do think we need some modernisation.
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Post by Stella Thu 12 Sep 2013, 2:40 pm

mystiroakey wrote:He is good manager- but its clear to me that the england team doesn't need to be playing this sterile boring game of football. We just need a man manager that sets us up a bit more attacking
Remember Alan Smith. Hodgson reminds me of him.
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 12 Sep 2013, 2:44 pm

All we wont from an england manager is for our players to show us that they are

a. trying

and

b. being creative.

that game v ukraine was the least creative i have seen england since the italy game.

Against Italy I thought it was a very shrewd tactic that almost paid off- but against ukraine!! come on




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Post by GSC Thu 12 Sep 2013, 2:47 pm

Under Roy we play with the aim of not losing
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 12 Sep 2013, 2:49 pm

Look at russia- They are topping the group courtesy of 6 wins and two losses. They play attacking football. We are struggling in the qualification and haven't even lost a game!!

And what I don't understand is why on earth Roy would play lamps and gerrard if he wants to play a defensive game..
Both are great attacking options- but not if they play deep!!


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Post by Stella Thu 12 Sep 2013, 2:50 pm

GSC wrote:Under Roy we play with the aim of not losing
It's working Very Happy 

IMO, we won;t win the world cup but let us at least go out trying. We were poor in 2010 but even worse in 2006, and that was with a good team (on paper). I don;t mind losing but I do if we go out with a whimper.
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 12 Sep 2013, 2:56 pm

We won't go out on a whimper..

I cannot remember us not being competitive bar that final half v germany.

If we qualify(that is an IF in itself) and we get to the quarters I will be happy..

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Post by Stella Thu 12 Sep 2013, 2:58 pm

mystiroakey wrote:We won't go out on a whimper..

I cannot remember us not being competitive bar that final half v germany.

If we qualify(that is an IF in itself) and we get to the quarters I will be happy..
Is that Italy game been swept from your mind? We hardly attacked. That is a whimper.
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:02 pm

strange comment mate. That certainly hasn't been swept from my mind. Amazing performance tbh. We played a certain style and stuck to it and bar a lost pen shot out it almost came off

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Post by GSC Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:05 pm

Myst, c'mon man.

We got roundly outplayed, barely out of our half. That the game went to extra time was a fluke itself.
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Post by Stella Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:05 pm

mystiroakey wrote:strange comment mate. That certainly hasn't been swept from my mind. Amazing performance tbh. We played a certain style and stuck to it and bar a lost pen shot out it almost came off
We let them attack us, amazingly didn't concede then went out. Do you like those tactics? I don't. Rooney didn't even attempt to hastle Pirlo who looked like the best player ever thanks to us letting him have as much time as possible on the ball. Odd and negative tactics. A whimper.
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:06 pm

I don't like the tactics but it almost worked..

end of story. No whimper at all

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:07 pm

However I will add (as i mentioned previously)

Against Italy i can at least understand the tactics, against ukraine I Can not!


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Post by Stella Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:08 pm

mystiroakey wrote:I don't like the tactics but it almost worked..

end of story. No whimper at all
But we never gave it our best shot. We could have beaten them id we had at least tried to. Not sure where you're coming from tbh, when I've been reading your other posts. Are there two of you?
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Post by Duty281 Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:08 pm

People seem to forget that England had quite a few chances to beat Italy in that game. Not as many as Italy true, but certainly enough to win the game.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:11 pm

Stella wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:I don't like the tactics but it almost worked..

end of story. No whimper at all
But we never gave it our best shot. We could have beaten them id we had at least tried to. Not sure where you're coming from tbh, when I've been reading your other posts. Are there two of you?


We gave it a very good shot v italy. And it almost paid of. I have nothing else to say on that matter and have not contradicted it at all


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Post by Champagne_Socialist Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:13 pm

Against Italy the game ended a draw. Football is about results, Barca dominated possession and shos etc against chelsea but lost.


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Post by Stella Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:14 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
Stella wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:I don't like the tactics but it almost worked..

end of story. No whimper at all
But we never gave it our best shot. We could have beaten them id we had at least tried to. Not sure where you're coming from tbh, when I've been reading your other posts. Are there two of you?
We gave it a very good shot v italy. And it almost paid of. I have nothing else to say on that matter and have not contradicted it at all

Ok you believe that. I respect your opinion.
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Post by GSC Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:15 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:Against Italy the game ended a draw. Football is about results, Barca dominated possession and shos etc against chelsea but lost.

Which is a great philosophy if you own a rabbits foot and a 4 leaved clover
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Post by Stella Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:15 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:Against Italy the game ended a draw. Football is about results, Barca dominated possession and shos etc against chelsea but lost.

We lost though. Chelsea rode their luck and won. I would prefer my team to have a go.
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:15 pm

We played a system v Italy. And i understand why(they are better!!). However I have no idea why we are playing this way against teams like moldova and ukraine!(we are better)

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Post by Stella Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:17 pm

mystiroakey wrote:We played a system v Italy. And i understand why(they are better!!). However I have no idea why we are playing this way against teams like moldova and ukraine!(we are better)
Italy were not much better though. We made them look good thanks to a boring, negative, spineless attitude.
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:18 pm

Barca just can't beat chelsea Stella.Chelsea have a system that works game on game v them. The only time Barca got past chelsea was when the ref blew up and didn't award chelsea 4 stone wall penalties!

We can never ever say they rode their luck- Because they always put those effective performances in against Barca.


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Post by mystiroakey Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:19 pm

Stella wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:We played a system v Italy. And i understand why(they are better!!). However I have no idea why we are playing this way against teams like moldova and ukraine!(we are better)
Italy were not much better though. We made them look good thanks to a boring, negative, spineless attitude.
When we go back to that game I think we all looked at the tourney as playing one way. Due to hodgsons lack of time with the squad and we all gave him slack.. However the problem is he hasn't moved forward .

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Post by Stella Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:21 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Barca just can't beat chelsea Stella.Chelsea have a system that works game on game v them. The only time Barca got past chelsea was when the ref blew up and didn't award chelsea 4 stone wall penalties!

We can never ever say they rode their luck- Because they always put those effective performances in against Barca.

Iv'e seen Chelsea attack and play their best style of Football against Barca though. They haven't always been that negative. Again, I doubt we will win the world cup but please play like we can, by attempting to.
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:21 pm

I do agree with you stella. Yes england should play a better brand of football atm! No doubts in my mind at all

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Post by Champagne_Socialist Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:25 pm

Stella wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Barca just can't beat chelsea Stella.Chelsea have a system that works game on game v them. The only time Barca got past chelsea was when the ref blew up and didn't award chelsea 4 stone wall penalties!

We can never ever say they rode their luck- Because they always put those effective performances in against Barca.

Iv'e seen Chelsea attack and play their best style of Football against Barca though. They haven't always been that negative. Again, I doubt we will win the world cup but please play like we can, by attempting to.
Remember Greece won Euro 2004 playing the most defensive football ever.

If England's style is to play defensive and counter attack then lets do it. We have fast wingers to play that style and big strong players to score corners and free kicks etc

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Post by Stella Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:30 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Stella wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Barca just can't beat chelsea Stella.Chelsea have a system that works game on game v them. The only time Barca got past chelsea was when the ref blew up and didn't award chelsea 4 stone wall penalties!

We can never ever say they rode their luck- Because they always put those effective performances in against Barca.

Iv'e seen Chelsea attack and play their best style of Football against Barca though. They haven't always been that negative. Again, I doubt we will win the world cup but please play like we can, by attempting to.
Remember Greece won Euro 2004 playing the most defensive football ever.

If England's style is to play defensive and counter attack then lets do it. We have fast wingers to play that style and big strong players to score corners and free kicks etc
Getting the ball, playing it around the back, then losing it in midfield is not counter attacking Football. Nothing wrong with quick counter attacking Football, if done right.
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Post by Champagne_Socialist Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:45 pm

Stella wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Stella wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Barca just can't beat chelsea Stella.Chelsea have a system that works game on game v them. The only time Barca got past chelsea was when the ref blew up and didn't award chelsea 4 stone wall penalties!

We can never ever say they rode their luck- Because they always put those effective performances in against Barca.

Iv'e seen Chelsea attack and play their best style of Football against Barca though. They haven't always been that negative. Again, I doubt we will win the world cup but please play like we can, by attempting to.
Remember Greece won Euro 2004 playing the most defensive football ever.

If England's style is to play defensive and counter attack then lets do it. We have fast wingers to play that style and big strong players to score corners and free kicks etc
Getting the ball, playing it around the back, then losing it in midfield is not counter attacking Football. Nothing wrong with quick counter attacking Football, if done right.
But results wise we are doing it right. Unbeaten in qualification.

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Post by GSC Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:46 pm

Winless against teams not San Marino or Moldova
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Post by Champagne_Socialist Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:49 pm

GSC wrote:Winless against teams not San Marino or Moldova
Top of the group by hook or by crook.

Italy drew with the USA at the world cup in 06 but won the tournament.

France came 2nd in the group drawing with switzerland and south korea but still reached the final.


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Post by Stella Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:50 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Stella wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Stella wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Barca just can't beat chelsea Stella.Chelsea have a system that works game on game v them. The only time Barca got past chelsea was when the ref blew up and didn't award chelsea 4 stone wall penalties!

We can never ever say they rode their luck- Because they always put those effective performances in against Barca.

Iv'e seen Chelsea attack and play their best style of Football against Barca though. They haven't always been that negative. Again, I doubt we will win the world cup but please play like we can, by attempting to.
Remember Greece won Euro 2004 playing the most defensive football ever.

If England's style is to play defensive and counter attack then lets do it. We have fast wingers to play that style and big strong players to score corners and free kicks etc
Getting the ball, playing it around the back, then losing it in midfield is not counter attacking Football. Nothing wrong with quick counter attacking Football, if done right.
But results wise we are doing it right. Unbeaten in qualification.
I've said results are ok, just the style of play. It's not exactly a difficult group.
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Post by GSC Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:54 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
GSC wrote:Winless against teams not San Marino or Moldova
Top of the group by hook or by crook.

Italy drew with the USA at the world cup in 06 but won the tournament.

France came 2nd in the group drawing with switzerland and south korea but still reached the final.
Italy also beat Australia, Ukraine and Germany. France beat Spain, Brazil and Portugal.

We can't beat Montenegro, Ukraine or Poland
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:54 pm

For some reason i thought we drew against moldova and beat montenagro!

Yep thats a good point tbf gsc.

we haven't beaten ukraine, montenegro or poland yet!!


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Post by Champagne_Socialist Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:56 pm

GSC wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
GSC wrote:Winless against teams not San Marino or Moldova
Top of the group by hook or by crook.

Italy drew with the USA at the world cup in 06 but won the tournament.

France came 2nd in the group drawing with switzerland and south korea but still reached the final.
Italy also beat Australia, Ukraine and Germany. France beat Spain, Brazil and Portugal.

We can't beat Montenegro, Ukraine or Poland
But the point was they looked poor in the group stages yet still won or reached the final.

England might look poor but if we win who cares.

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Post by Hero Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:56 pm

I think the big issue for England is the level of player that's currently coming through the ranks, the pool of talent is continuing to decrease as is the creativity of the players.

We can't get workhorses to perform like Ferraris.

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Post by GSC Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:56 pm

If our route to the WC final goes San Marino-India-Tahiti, then sure England are in it.

But we're actually going to have to beat good-great teams. And atm we don't look capable of beating mediocre-good teams.
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Post by GSC Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:57 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
GSC wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
GSC wrote:Winless against teams not San Marino or Moldova
Top of the group by hook or by crook.

Italy drew with the USA at the world cup in 06 but won the tournament.

France came 2nd in the group drawing with switzerland and south korea but still reached the final.
Italy also beat Australia, Ukraine and Germany. France beat Spain, Brazil and Portugal.

We can't beat Montenegro, Ukraine or Poland
But the point was they looked poor in the group stages yet still won or reached the final.

England might look poor but if we win who cares.
Yeah...but we aren't winning unless we play minnows. Thats kind of the point.
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:58 pm

Well we have a decent last two games. Both teams will be better than a handful of the teams that get into the world cup due to the way it is run!


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Post by Champagne_Socialist Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:59 pm

GSC wrote:If our route to the WC final goes San Marino-India-Tahiti, then sure England are in it.

But we're actually going to have to beat good-great teams. And atm we don't look capable of beating mediocre-good teams.
I think you are missing the point.

England are UNBEATEN right now and top of the group. Stop being so pessimistic and coming up with situations to blast england. People like you are never happy and always find some reason to be gloomy.

England are unbeaten and top of their group yet you are blasting england for not passing the ball as well as you want or counter attacking fast enough.

Portugal would love to be in our position because they look likely to finish 2nd.

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