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Adnan Januzaj: An English Footballer....yea, ok then (rolls eyes)

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Adnan Januzaj: An English Footballer....yea, ok then (rolls eyes) Empty Adnan Januzaj: An English Footballer....yea, ok then (rolls eyes)

Post by Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:53 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24416142

Maybe Silvio Berlusconi can be the British Prime Minister as well.
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Post by Bull Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:59 am

Adnan is too good for England.
England suck.

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Post by Duty281 Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:27 pm

Intellectual debate as ever Bull. Rolling Eyes 

Anyway, he wants to play for Albania, so probably will.

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Post by Scrumpy Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:05 am

It's the 21st Century maybe someone should tell Jack Wilshere before he makes himself and English football look xenophobic and racist.

Oops too late Shocked 
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Post by dummy_half Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:11 pm

At this stage I don't get the talk about Januzaj potentially representing England - he needs to complete another 3 years residence (as the football residency rules only apply once you are over 18 with the exception of movement between the Home Nations), and the FA would also need to revise their rules which do not now permit qualification based purely on residence of non-British (by birth or ancestry) players.

If he's as good as the hype, one of the other countries he is currently eligible for (iirc Turkey, Albania, Serbia and Belgium) will cap him in the next year or so.

On the more general concept of non-nationals representing a country, I think there will need to be some changes to the rules because of the increasing international mobility around the developed world and in particular within the professional football community.

Personally (and based on discussions that we have had on the cricket and rugby boards about this issue), i think eligibility should be based on:
1 - Country of birth (although this produces anomalies like John McEnroe being German and Ronan O'Gara American by birth).
2 - Nationality of at least one parent (although not grandparent, as is currently allowed in rugby)
3 - Residency and citizenship, when players moved for reasona other than a professional football contract. I'd also say that time spent living full time in a country as a child should be counted as much more significant that residence as an adult. By this reckoning someone like Muamba or Zaha who immigrated to England as a young child should be immediately eligible.

The issue for me would be allowing eligibility on residence when a player has moved to a country purely for professional football reasons. I recall a few years ago there was a suggestion of England capping Almunia and Arteta based purely on residence. This doesn't really fit with my idea of what the national team should be about, and also represents a potentially slippery slope where the richest leagues (i.e. EPL, La Liga, Ligue 1, Serie A) buy up all the best uncapped talent in part on behalf of their national federations, so strengthening the national side once the appropriate residence period has been fulfilled.

One further point is that England have in the past capped players based on residence and citizenship - Tony Dorigo and John Barnes would be two examples of this (an Aussie with Italian ancestry and a Jamaican respctively).

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Post by Duty281 Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:46 pm

Keep England English, bellows our boy Jack.

Only Englishman should play for England, says Jack the lad.

Nonsense I say Jack. This is multicultural Britain, and although it's terrifying, unsustainable, not British, and leaving the NHS and our education system on the brink of collapse, it's here to stay, by gum!

In all seriousness, well said Jack. clap

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Post by NickisBHAFC Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:13 am

Is Madeleine McCann eligible to play for Portugal?

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Post by VDT Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:56 pm

I Read that there are 10 (11 if you include England in 2018) teams he qualifies for - All the former Yugoslavia countries - Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Slovenia plus Kosovo when they become full Fifa Members then Turkey, Albania and Belgium!
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Post by Duty281 Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:59 pm

Surely more proof, if any were needed, that the international eligibility rules need to be tightened.

I see Scotland approached Rooney to play for them when he was 16. But Wayne had St. George in his heart, and he wasn't for turning!

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Post by dyrewolfe Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:01 pm

NickisBHAFC wrote:Is Madeleine McCann eligible to play for Portugal?
Only if she's found alive. Are you offering to go look? Rolling Eyes


Back on topic, I have to agree with Duty. The rules on international eligibility do need to be tightened up. Personally, I think its ridiculous that someone simply has to live and play in a particular country for 5 years to qualify for that nation.

International football is in danger of becoming like the Champions and Europa Leagues, with countries, instead of clubs, finding ways to poach the best foreign talent, regardless of how tenuous their connections are. Just as as in the top flights of many domestic football leagues, homegrown players will be denied the chance to play at the highest level, with the national associations more concerned about their FIFA rankings, than nurturing new talent.

I'm not saying every player has to have been born and spent their entire lives in that country, but I think they should have lived there at least long enough to represent their country at junior level (U-18 or U-21).


Last edited by dyrewolfe on Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Hero Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:12 pm

Duty281 wrote:Keep England English, bellows our boy Jack.

Only Englishman should play for England, says Jack the lad.

Nonsense I say Jack. This is multicultural Britain, and although it's terrifying, unsustainable, not British, and leaving the NHS and our education system on the brink of collapse, it's here to stay, by gum!

In all seriousness, well said Jack. clap
You realise in Jack's vision of England then Terry Butcher the embodiment of the never say die, bleed until you pass out English spirit wouldn't be eligible to play for England?

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Post by Duty281 Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:51 pm

Hero wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Keep England English, bellows our boy Jack.

Only Englishman should play for England, says Jack the lad.

Nonsense I say Jack. This is multicultural Britain, and although it's terrifying, unsustainable, not British, and leaving the NHS and our education system on the brink of collapse, it's here to stay, by gum!

In all seriousness, well said Jack. clap
You realise in Jack's vision of England then Terry Butcher the embodiment of the never say die, bleed until you pass out English spirit wouldn't be eligible to play for England?
Well sir, Jack Wilshere referenced living here for five years doesn't make you English in relation to Januzaj, AND he probably missed out the word "necessarily".

I'm fairly sure that Wilshere would have no qualms about a home-grown player playing for England - like Terry Butcher, and like Saido Berahino.

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Post by Nakatomi Plaza Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:57 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
NickisBHAFC wrote:Is Madeleine McCann eligible to play for Portugal?
Only if she's found alive. Are you offering to go look? Rolling Eyes


Back on topic, I have to agree with Duty. The rules on international eligibility do need to be tightened up. Personally, I think its ridiculous that someone simply has to live and play in a particular country for 5 years to qualify for that nation.

International football is in danger of becoming like the Champions and Europa Leagues, with countries, instead of clubs, finding ways to poach the best foreign talent, regardless of how tenuous their connections are. Just as as in the top flights of many domestic football leagues, homegrown players will be denied the chance to play at the highest level, with the national associations more concerned about their FIFA rankings, than nurturing new talent.

I'm not saying every player has to have been born and spent their entire lives in that country, but I think they should have lived there at least long enough to represent their country at junior level (U-18 or U-21).
Agree with you completely Dyrewolf, but as I said on the other thread dedicated to this topic, some countries qualifying rules mean you could be eligible to play for that country in less than 5 years.

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Post by Duty281 Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:01 pm

Simple rules on international eligibility, as drawn up by my very English self:

Players are eligible to play for:

A) The country of their birth.
B) The country of where one or both parent(s), not grandparents under any circumstances, were born.
c) A country where they have lived for five years BEFORE the age of sixteen.

Done and done. Mail that to FIFA, I've saved them a committee and ten years planning!

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:21 pm

Scrumpy wrote:It's the 21st Century maybe someone should tell Jack Wilshere before he makes himself and English football look xenophobic and racist.

Oops too late Shocked 
Stop being overly PC, as far as i'm concerned to represent england you should be english not a belgian who's lived here for 5 years. I have no issue with a foreigner coming here and working but residency in later life does not make you that nationality.

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Post by Hero Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:15 pm

So if Messi moved to Stoke at the age of 15 would you turn him away from the English side?

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:18 pm

Yes I would, international football isn't club football you can't just pick and choose who you play for. If they have english heritage then it's a different issue but I don't agree with the residency ruling.

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Post by Hero Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:31 pm

Personally I have no qualms about it, if we want to compete with the likes of Germany and France etc where they have free reign to bring in the top talent from Poland, Turkey, Algeria, Senegal etc then we have to work on an even playing field, currently the self imposed residency rule even stops us nicking a Gareth Bale etc at an early age.

My favourite bit of Wilshere's quote:

"If I went to Spain and lived there for five years I am not going to play for Spain."

Yeah the reason for that Jack is you'd be about 12th in line for a place for the Spanish midfield.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:33 pm

I don't agree with that at all, just because other countries do it doesn't mean we should follow suit, international football is meant to be about passion not the mercenaries of club football.

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Post by Hero Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:36 pm

So do you think Mo Farah shouldn't be celebrated as a great British sportsperson?

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:38 pm

Yes I do, lived here since he was young to a british born father.

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Post by Hero Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:50 pm

But Jonathan Trott would be a no?

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Post by Duty281 Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:56 pm

Trott has English family doesn't he?

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Post by Hero Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:57 pm

Grandparents only I thought?

Stand corrected, his dad was born in England but moved to S.Africa. Trott though played for S.Africa up to u19 level.


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Post by Hammersmith harrier Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:59 pm

I could be wrong but I think all of Trotts grandparents are english, not sure what is complicated in understanding that guys like Januzaj who would be eligible purely from residency shouldn't be considered.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:59 pm

Im not so sure I agree with the rules of the cricketing system. They basically havent bothered to change them appropriately since the days of political strife that affected the game.

I agree with Wilshere. If I moved to Spain at 15/16 and lived there for five years I wouldnt be Spanish. I think 13 maybe 14 would be my limit on this, enough of your formative years to do some growing up in that country, but youre far too socially aware at 15. Has he lived here two years at this point? People I know go travelling for over a year, they wouldnt be considering their nationality

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Post by Duty281 Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:00 pm

Well if I were the one setting the rules then, he wouldn't be eligible for England. Harsh as that may seem.

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Post by Duty281 Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:05 pm

Actually ignore that. He has a British father, so would be eligible for England under my (purely hypothetical) governance.

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Post by Hero Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:10 pm

So hypothetically a person whose parents are from Gretna Green and move into England the day after a child is born would be a no.
But a child who is born to a holiday fling with an English father he then never saw in his entire life and then was raised in for example Venezula would be eligible in your rules?

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Post by Duty281 Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:13 pm

Hero wrote:So hypothetically a person whose parents are from Gretna Green and move into England the day after a child is born would be a no.
But a child who is born to a holiday fling with an English father he then never saw in his entire life and then was raised in for example Venezula would be eligible in your rules?
With the greatest of respect, do you have any better ideas?

I mean right now, the rules are a mess. How many countries is Januzaj eligible for? They need tweaking at the very least.

Oh and in the first scenario you mentioned, if the child lived in England for five years before the age of sixteen, I would make him eligible for England.

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Post by Hero Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:16 pm

Personally I'm happy with the rules as they are through FIFA at present which are actually tighter than they used to be when the likes of Di Stefano and Puskas turned out for different nations.

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Post by Hero Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:18 pm

And is Januzaj really going to wait for 5 years to turn out for England? Think the FA are delusional if they think he'll just hold fire until then.

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Post by Duty281 Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:18 pm

PLayers can still play for multiple nations can't they? Jenkinson played for England in a friendly, but is still eligble for another country (Finland?) until he plays a competitive game for one or the other.

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Post by Hero Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:21 pm

Yes that's still the case, those two I mentioned though played competive matches for different nations.


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Post by Duty281 Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:22 pm

Hero wrote:And is Januzaj really going to wait for 5 years to turn out for England? Think the FA are delusional if they think he'll just hold fire until then.
Depends which paper you read. I've heard he could be eligible in as early as 2015, but I have no idea how.

The FA only remain hopeful because Januzaj has rejected call-ups for Belgium. He will probably play for Albania, but the FA remain hopeful, with their fingers crossed.

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Post by LastDamnation Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:24 pm

Step 1: Scottish billionaire buys celtic
Step 2: celtic sign all the most talented ~18 year olds with no international caps, paid megabucks to commit to Scotland in 5 years time
Step 3: Wait 5 years
Step 4: Scotland win world cup

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Post by Hero Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:11 am

Given a choice between a player who is willing to wait 5 years to put on the three lions and the current brigade who drop out of friendlies due to a sprained little finger I know which of the two would wear the shirt with more pride.

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Post by CFCNick Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:56 am

Hero wrote:So if Messi moved to Stoke at the age of 15 would you turn him away from the English side?
If Messi moved to Stoke at 15 he'd be horse sh*t.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:43 pm

KP's comments were worse than jack if you think about it.

(dont get me wrong I am KP's biggest fan)

Wilshire says. English players should play for england.

Kp says

"do you mean i shouldn't play for england"



so is KP saying he isnt english??

Its a bit of a crazy leap to go from what wilshire says to "only england born players should play for england"

If junuzai stated that he wants to beome english and play for england (after his residential qualification that not only allows him to play for england but also MAKES HIM ENGLISH but only if HE wants to be!!)

Then I am sure that little wee Jack would be happy with that.

At the present time Junuzaji isn't english.


I think the reaction is way worse than the original statement. That only lacks substance rather than spouts xenophobia!

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Post by mystiroakey Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:48 pm

CFCNick wrote:
Hero wrote:So if Messi moved to Stoke at the age of 15 would you turn him away from the English side?
If Messi moved to Stoke at 15 he'd be horse sh*t.
True but only because stoke dont inject their youngsters with hormones!

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