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James DeGale v George Groves amateur fight

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James DeGale v George Groves amateur fight Empty James DeGale v George Groves amateur fight

Post by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Fri May 13, 2011 8:53 pm

Found this on youtube yesterday. Thought it was just sour grapes from DeGale when he said he won but was robbed but it looks like he was.

What do yous lot think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0EOwc63VhQ
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Post by Scottrf Fri May 13, 2011 9:29 pm

That guy has the biggest fight collection in Europe apparently.

Wont claim to be an expert on amateur boxing but did look like he won. Robbed? I'm not so sure.

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Post by Liam_Main Fri May 13, 2011 9:31 pm

Degale was robbed had him winning 3-1 and the round a had Groves winning was close.Groves was schooled for the first 3 rounds.
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Post by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Fri May 13, 2011 9:32 pm

Not an expert on it either. Robbed was a bit much maybe but he looked like he won it.
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Post by Liam_Main Fri May 13, 2011 9:34 pm

Groves was comfortably beating for the first 3 the 4th was quite close.
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Post by Scottrf Fri May 13, 2011 9:34 pm

Liam_Main4 wrote:Degale was robbed had him winning 3-1 and the round a had Groves winning was close.Groves was schooled for the first 3 rounds.
3-1? Thought it was a point per punch landed?

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Post by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Fri May 13, 2011 9:38 pm

Scottrf wrote:
Liam_Main4 wrote:Degale was robbed had him winning 3-1 and the round a had Groves winning was close.Groves was schooled for the first 3 rounds.
3-1? Thought it was a point per punch landed?

Clean punches landed never counted it but DeGale looked like he won.

How do you think they have changed?

DeGales defence has tightened up but never seen much difference in Groves tbh.
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Post by Liam_Main Fri May 13, 2011 9:39 pm

I wasn't gonna count up all the punches Scott. But that's how I felt it went in the first 4.
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Post by Fists of Fury Fri May 13, 2011 9:40 pm

Can't say I agree with you, guys. Degale misse an awful lot, either blocked by the gloves or he was hitting behind the head. Was a very close one though.

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Post by Liam_Main Fri May 13, 2011 9:41 pm

Strangely Groves leaves his guard down more now than in the amateurs.
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Post by Scottrf Fri May 13, 2011 9:42 pm

Well it's a bit much to call it a robbery without properly counting it under the amateur scoring system.

Doesn't matter how many you miss FoF, matters how many you land with.

I think Groves is in a transition stage at the moment, thought in his last fight he tried out a few new things defensively; catching with his gloves, slipping etc and tried to pick his shots more. Whether that will convert against a proper opponent I don't know.


Last edited by Scottrf on Fri May 13, 2011 9:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Liam_Main Fri May 13, 2011 9:43 pm

Degale landed alot more than Groves.
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Post by The Galveston Giant Fri May 13, 2011 10:12 pm

Thanks for this Kev
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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Fri May 13, 2011 10:24 pm

Scottrf wrote:Well it's a bit much to call it a robbery without properly counting it under the amateur scoring system.

Doesn't matter how many you miss FoF, matters how many you land with.

I think Groves is in a transition stage at the moment, thought in his last fight he tried out a few new things defensively; catching with his gloves, slipping etc and tried to pick his shots more. Whether that will convert against a proper opponent I don't know.

Tend to agree with this. Groves looked more "on it" defensively in his last outing. Thought he kept a better distance between himself and the opponent than he did in the Anderson fight. Scott, do you think the Anderson fight gives Groves an edge in that he knows he can suck it up and come through a rough patch? I tend to think Degale will outpoint him but I don't think it will be as comfortable as some people seem to suggest.

Degale will have the confidence of olympic success and beating Smith pretty handily but Groves is no walkover in my opinion.

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Post by Scottrf Fri May 13, 2011 10:30 pm

Of course mate. You don't know how you will react in those situations until they happen. It's not something you will normally experience in sparring. He knows he can come through it so will do his confidence good as well as his composure when hurt.

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Fri May 13, 2011 10:40 pm

Scottrf wrote:Of course mate. You don't know how you will react in those situations until they happen. It's not something you will normally experience in sparring. He knows he can come through it so will do his confidence good as well as his composure when hurt.

True enough. For what it's worth, I think Degale is clearly the more accomplished boxer, despite what happened in the amatuers, but as you rightly point out, Groves will have the experience of knowing he can win from a difficult position, somethings Degales obvious attributes have kept him from facing so far. I guess this, and possibly punching power, are two things that Groves may have in his favour.

Still, a refreshing fight, and with Murray/Mitchell in the pipeline, a good few months in store for the domestic scene.

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Post by WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs Fri May 13, 2011 10:43 pm

I it was professional scoring, the bout probably would have went to James. It's a bit worrying for groves as he thinks he has the upper hand based on that performance. The way he goes on about it it sounds like groves schooled degale. Degale looks to improved more than groves since the amateur days.

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Post by AdZacO Sat May 14, 2011 12:56 am

Groves won that on amerture rules. No doubt about it.

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Post by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sat May 14, 2011 12:58 am

Really I still thought DeGale landed more clean shots. Closer fight on amateur rules though than it would be on pro rules. DeGales work was much more clean and effective.
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Post by azania Sat May 14, 2011 8:23 am

DeGale's expression when the decision was read out. Classic.

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Post by BALTIMORA Sat May 14, 2011 8:31 am

azania wrote:DeGale's expression when the decision was read out. Classic.

I shouldn't have enjoyed it, but I did. Am I alone in hoping their fight will end in a draw? I think if it does then neither will lose too much stock, neither will have lost, and it sets the stage for a potential barnstormer of a grudge match down the line.

Although I would like to see Chunky sparked. Doubt it though. He actually comes across alright in a couple of interviews, but far too often he acts like a total dickhead.

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Post by azania Sat May 14, 2011 8:37 am

BALTIMORA wrote:
azania wrote:DeGale's expression when the decision was read out. Classic.

I shouldn't have enjoyed it, but I did. Am I alone in hoping their fight will end in a draw? I think if it does then neither will lose too much stock, neither will have lost, and it sets the stage for a potential barnstormer of a grudge match down the line.

Although I would like to see Chunky sparked. Doubt it though. He actually comes across alright in a couple of interviews, but far too often he acts like a total dickhead.

DeGale is a complete RichardHead. His jokes are something I would be ashamed of if my son said them at 9 years of age. Good boxer though. But everyone seems to be writing Groves off. I think the Anderson fight did him more good than harm. He now doesn't believe his own hype and doesn't expect to walk through everyone. He is probably learning defence and in Dirrell he has the perfect sparring partner who is better that DeGale.

His battle scars suggests that the sparring has been very intense which is good. I have a sneaky feeling that GG will pull it off and win a close points decision.

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Post by BALTIMORA Sat May 14, 2011 8:45 am

I dunno, I think Degale is gonna be a bit to slick for Groves. Hopefully sparring with Dirrell will have done some good, but I didn't really think Dirrell and Degale had such similar styles. Speed and a propensity to hug and fall over are the main things Dirrell offers.

I think you're right that the Anderson fight will have done Groves some real good, but I'm not convinced enough to make a departure from the general consensus.

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Post by azania Sat May 14, 2011 10:00 am

BALTIMORA wrote:I dunno, I think Degale is gonna be a bit to slick for Groves. Hopefully sparring with Dirrell will have done some good, but I didn't really think Dirrell and Degale had such similar styles. Speed and a propensity to hug and fall over are the main things Dirrell offers.

I think you're right that the Anderson fight will have done Groves some real good, but I'm not convinced enough to make a departure from the general consensus.

Departing from the general concensus and being proved right is my forte Very Happy (as windy et al will testify).

The key with Dirrell is that he is a SP, very fast and slick. A perfect choice for sparring. Groves will learn how to counter JDG. But does GG have the skills required? I think he does. Its just that JDG also has good skills and is maybe better than GG. It will be interesting if it becomes a war of attrition.

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Post by BALTIMORA Sat May 14, 2011 10:03 am

Dirrell IS fast, but I'm not sure I'd say he was all that slick. I suppose what I mean is his 'slickness' is all about in-out movement, but that's about it. At times he's looked clumsy and amateurish, whereas Degale looks a bit more adaptable.

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Post by azania Sat May 14, 2011 10:08 am

BALTIMORA wrote:Dirrell IS fast, but I'm not sure I'd say he was all that slick. I suppose what I mean is his 'slickness' is all about in-out movement, but that's about it. At times he's looked clumsy and amateurish, whereas Degale looks a bit more adaptable.

Sparring is very different from fight time. Its not about winning. He moves well and better than JDG. Having seen DeGale, he too looks amereurish imo. Probably something to do with the fact that he is only 2 years out of the amateur class. GG looks more rounded imo but made several amateur errors against Anderson but fought a more controlled fight in his last fight. He also looked good against SPs.

DeGale should win, but I get this feeling that GG will pull it out. He is a clever boxer and knows his limitations. JDG doesn't and that could be the difference.

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Post by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sat May 14, 2011 1:33 pm

azania wrote:
BALTIMORA wrote:Dirrell IS fast, but I'm not sure I'd say he was all that slick. I suppose what I mean is his 'slickness' is all about in-out movement, but that's about it. At times he's looked clumsy and amateurish, whereas Degale looks a bit more adaptable.

Sparring is very different from fight time. Its not about winning. He moves well and better than JDG. Having seen DeGale, he too looks amereurish imo. Probably something to do with the fact that he is only 2 years out of the amateur class. GG looks more rounded imo but made several amateur errors against Anderson but fought a more controlled fight in his last fight. He also looked good against SPs.

DeGale should win, but I get this feeling that GG will pull it out. He is a clever boxer and knows his limitations. JDG doesn't and that could be the difference.

DeGold has had the better sparring imo. Dirrell has gave Groves a bit of a schooling by the looks of his face. DeGold has been sparring with Cleverly who is preparing for a World title fight. Dirrell is just keeping in shape.
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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sat May 14, 2011 1:39 pm

Groves has probably learnt more from Dirrell than Degale will have learnt from Cleverley, sparring isn't about coming out on top it's meant to a way to learn and for that reason have to give the edge to Groves.

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Post by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 pm

DeGale has had the tougher sparring though and has come out of it unscathed which shows he is on good form going into the fight. Dirrell might have disheartened Groves by battering him.
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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sat May 14, 2011 1:43 pm

Dirrell clearly wasn't taking it easy so Groves had the far tougher sparring, he has no upcoming fights so can go for it whereas Cleverly would be more contained knowing he has a fight coming up.

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Post by WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs Sat May 14, 2011 1:47 pm

Cleverly is as good as sparring as dirrel. Groves' only advantagse are his power and his experiance of going down. Cleverly is as big a hitter as George, maybe even better being a LHW. Groves needs to turn it into a war to win imo, but if kjames can hold his own vs Nathan he should be perfectly prepared.

Dirrell is a top fighter and groves will really benefit. I can't see many other southpaws he could have used. But, he has been inactive and it's hard to know if groves was sparring dirrell who had ring rust. And if he did, it worrying for george because it looks like dirrell always gets the better of him.

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Post by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sat May 14, 2011 2:00 pm

The Mighty Atom wrote:Dirrell clearly wasn't taking it easy so Groves had the far tougher sparring, he has no upcoming fights so can go for it whereas Cleverly would be more contained knowing he has a fight coming up.

Why would Clev be more contained? He is training for a fight Dirrell was doing a work out.
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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sat May 14, 2011 2:08 pm

Sparring is about learning its not about getting one over on the guy your facing, Clev has a world title fight lined up he wouldn't want to do anything to jeopardise that.

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Post by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sat May 14, 2011 2:12 pm

The Mighty Atom wrote:Sparring is about learning its not about getting one over on the guy your facing, Clev has a world title fight lined up he wouldn't want to do anything to jeopardise that.
His first world tile fight so would be going for it in sparring. apparently they had to be pulled apart a few times.
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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sat May 14, 2011 2:13 pm

I just don't see what Degale learns from Cleverly

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Post by BALTIMORA Sat May 14, 2011 2:13 pm

The Mighty Atom wrote:I just don't see what Degale learns from Cleverly

Welsh?

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Post by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sat May 14, 2011 2:57 pm

The Mighty Atom wrote:I just don't see what Degale learns from Cleverly

Not sure what he learns but think it's more about the mentality of sparring partners. Dirrell was just keeping in shape, where as Cleverly is working hard for his title fight. DeGold has had the more intense sparring with more resemblence to an actual fight than just training.
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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sat May 14, 2011 3:23 pm

There is no point to sparring if you're not learning anything from it, Groves will learn far more from Dirrell who despite your protestations otherwise clearly did not let up. It would have enabled his team to see what he's doing wrong and try to figure out ways to correct it.

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Post by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sat May 14, 2011 3:28 pm

The Mighty Atom wrote:There is no point to sparring if you're not learning anything from it, Groves will learn far more from Dirrell who despite your protestations otherwise clearly did not let up. It would have enabled his team to see what he's doing wrong and try to figure out ways to correct it.

I never said let up but he wouldn't have been going all out on Groves because he wasn't preparing for a fight himself. Cleverly and DeGold have been going all out on each other which makes it better sparring imo. More competitive rather than getting schooled.
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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sat May 14, 2011 3:33 pm

You seem to be missing the point of what sparring is, you have no way of knowing if Dirrell was going all out but that's not an important issue, he was brought in specifically to highlight Groves weaknesses something Cleverly is less likely to do with Degale.

If you want competitiveness have an actual fight rather than sparring

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Post by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sat May 14, 2011 3:37 pm

The Mighty Atom wrote:You seem to be missing the point of what sparring is, you have no way of knowing if Dirrell was going all out but that's not an important issue, he was brought in specifically to highlight Groves weaknesses something Cleverly is less likely to do with Degale.

If you want competitiveness have an actual fight rather than sparring

DeGale did he had a warm up fight. Groves needed that kind of sparring because he is pretty average and has a shocking defence which DeGolds speed and southpaw stance will pick holes in for fun. What are DeGolds weaknesses that Groves is capable of exposing.
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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sat May 14, 2011 3:39 pm

Hard to say what his weaknesses are when he's faced nobody of note, personally feel Groves is going to get inside rough him up and knock him out.

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Post by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sat May 14, 2011 3:40 pm

I see DeGale being to quick and skillful for Groves who does have a poor defence. DeGale KO in 4 for me.
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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sat May 14, 2011 3:45 pm

Degale hasn't got the power yet to get rid of him that quickly, seeing how he stopped Smith on his feet in the 9th fail to see how he KO's Groves at all.

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Post by WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs Sat May 14, 2011 3:49 pm

The Mighty Atom wrote:Degale hasn't got the power yet to get rid of him that quickly, seeing how he stopped Smith on his feet in the 9th fail to see how he KO's Groves at all.

He hit as hard as Anderson and hits quicker than Anderson. Groves can't take big hits often, if he gets clipped and drops his defenxe degale could finish him. James seems to be a good finisher, like smith, he knew he was goi g so stepped it up with a couple of hooks so the ref jumped in.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sat May 14, 2011 3:54 pm

Don't see it happening myself but that's your opinion, in a fight of this profile Degale isn't going to get an easy stoppage like he did against Smith.

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