Eng v Aus match thread + build up

[DeludedOptimistorjustDave]

Chance to chat about the game.
I think it will be a real cracker with England to take it by around 8 points or more.
I know every game is important but the management must have this penciled in as a must win because they can win it if they play it right.

[GloriousEmpire]

I think Australia will put them to the sword. Without their Samoashire centre England are back to just the one dimension and last years back row balance is gone with Robshaw and morgan seriously out of form and missing their star prop, I think Australia will demonstrate just how accurate Gatlands selection policy was.

Weak and deficient at 1,2,5,7,8,9,10, 13,11,14,15 and with little on the bench, The only thing can save England is rain. And lots of it.

[quinsforever]

It's just comedy that a Taff and a kiwi are the ones starting the eng Aus match thread.

Get a life.

[Hound of Harrow]

It's just comedy that a Taff and a kiwi are the ones starting the eng Aus match thread.

Get a life.

Nah, not comedy. It's called obsession.....or is that a womens fragrance.

[Taylorman]

Is it this weekend...interesting match up with England and Oz swapping positions on the IRB rankings recently. This will give us a better idea.

Close and lots of reasons either can win this- Oz mainly because theyre just sick of losing, and England to get their side back on track after the end of the 6N.

[sad_gimp]

Hard one to call, both been fairly inconsistent, depends who shows up.

I'll go with England though, home advantage.

[Icu]

If the Wallabies can tighten their defence they'll be good chance to take this. Scoring points is no problem at the moment with over 80 in the past 2 games - 33 against the AB's in Dunedin is a good effort even if the AB's had taken their foot off the pedal. Most people i speak to think England will be the toughest game for the Wallabies, even if the English are a bit under-cooked. It will be a close.

[GloriousEmpire]

More withdrawals from the England squad today...

[Cyril]

Who else was withdrawn other than Parling today?

[munkian]

It's just comedy that a Taff and a kiwi are the ones starting the eng Aus match thread.

Get a life.

And the 'taff' predicted you'll win by 8, don't be so precious...

[Biltong]

Difficult to say where either team is in respect to selections and Gameplans.

Will be a very interesting match, can't wait to see it.

[Sgt_Pooly]

Hard one to call but it's very much in our own hands.

Get close to the performance we put in against NZ and we'll win. Play like we did against Wales and we'll lose.

Aus are in poor shape but can't be underestimated.

[Biltong]

Hard one to call but it's very much in our own hands.

Get close to the performance we put in against NZ and we'll win. Play like we did against Wales and we'll lose.

Aus are in poor shape but can't be underestimated.

Problem is we don't really know whether Australia is in poor shape.

Same with England, it is really a tough one to call.

[Sgt_Pooly]

They certainly looked in poor shape against (albeit strong) SA at home.

I don't think they looked much cop against NZ either who didn't really play that well in the recent games.

As you say though, time will tell.

[quinsforever]

It's just comedy that a Taff and a kiwi are the ones starting the eng Aus match thread.

Get a life.

And the 'taff' predicted you'll win by 8, don't be so precious...

if he'd skipped the "win by 8" and "must win" bits from the OP i would have said nothing. since when has a game against Australia been a "must win" unless its RWC knockout stages? first eng game with full-ish team since getting demolished by wales. how does that set us up for a "must win" scenario?

[fa0019]

If England are level at halftime they will come through and win.

AUS have a lot of pressure on them. they have a 3-10 losing record this year and they need to get a good start else it could get very very messy.

No Higginbottom, no Pocock... those are the players who help AUS compete upfront. Without such players they have struggled and I don't see any dangermen for England.

Get say 10 points ahead and I think this team could collapse. See the number of line breakds SA caused... these are breaks that wouldn't have happened during the Lions tour but the morale is obviously low and the teams performance has suffered, regardless of a change in personnel.

It won't be easy for England, the result could go to AUS... but England should win this one IMO.

[hugehandoff]

Pessimism
Aussies to win this for me. They have some quality backs and appear to have rediscovered some of their scoring touches. England still do not have any idea as to who should be in their side. 2nd row is open to much debate and we have Billy to start at 8 for the first time. Midfield will be a new combo and Yarde's first crack against the big boys. So many changes and cannot see this England side producing a quality performance. Horwill and co will be too smart and will take more of their chances than England will.

Optimism
England to put a weak Australia away. Our new second row will have a blinder with Lawes and Attwood to the fore. The back row will match the Aussies and secure some quick turn over ball, which the new, flatter and improved Farrell will use to attack the gainline and bring in the strike runners. Both wingers to score.

Realism
Poor quality error strewn game decided by whoever finally pulls themselves together. Will not scare any other teams.

[quinsforever]

Pessimism
Aussies to win this for me. They have some quality backs and appear to have rediscovered some of their scoring touches. England still do not have any idea as to who should be in their side. 2nd row is open to much debate and we have Billy to start at 8 for the first time. Midfield will be a new combo and Yarde's first crack against the big boys. So many changes and cannot see this England side producing a quality performance. Horwill and co will be too smart and will take more of their chances than England will.

Optimism
England to put a weak Australia away. Our new second row will have a blinder with Lawes and Attwood to the fore. The back row will match the Aussies and secure some quick turn over ball, which the new, flatter and improved Farrell will use to attack the gainline and bring in the strike runners. Both wingers to score.

Realism
Poor quality error strewn game decided by whoever finally pulls themselves together. Will not scare any other teams.

sadly, i agree. hardly likely to be a cracker. fluency will be lacking from Eng, confidence and competitiveness lacking up front from Aus IMO.

[beshocked]

The England team that will play Australia looks to be stronger than the one that got hammered by Wales.

Players like Ashton and Farrell who started vs Wales are in much better form now. Back three and backrow should be better with no players out of position.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Realism
Poor quality error strewn game decided by whoever finally pulls themselves together. Will not scare any other teams.

sadly, i agree. hardly likely to be a cracker. fluency will be lacking from Eng, confidence and competitiveness lacking up front from Aus IMO.

The great thing about rugby is that a match that by rights should be a humdinger can turn out to be a nervy mistake-fest, and conversely what on paper should be a case of the winner falling over the line can turn out to be an absolute belter of a Test match.

[quinsforever]

Realism
Poor quality error strewn game decided by whoever finally pulls themselves together. Will not scare any other teams.

sadly, i agree. hardly likely to be a cracker. fluency will be lacking from Eng, confidence and competitiveness lacking up front from Aus IMO.

The great thing about rugby is that a match that by rights should be a humdinger can turn out to be a nervy mistake-fest, and conversely what on paper should be a case of the winner falling over the line can turn out to be an absolute belter of a Test match.

agree with that too. not saying i wont chew my fingernails to the bone...just not expecting massive quality.

OTOT i will be very interested to see how the new scrum laws are adapted to in the first big NH/SH match of the year. and refereed!

[ChequeredJersey]

Should be a close game, hope it is a good one too. I am quietly confident, even with Australia's pride-salvaging but ultimately vain close-ish loss to an All-Blacks side with little to lose who should have done better (see, GE, I can look to incense people for no good reason too)

[DeludedOptimistorjustDave]

It's a must win because England are ranked above them on the IRB list,
England feel aggrieved that they didn't have more Lions,England fans always think Australia are an easy target! what more can i say?

Also may i add im not a taff! i live around 100miles due North East of the River Taff, im British Welsh.

[doctor_grey]

I think Australia will put them to the sword. Without their Samoashire centre England are back to just the one dimension and last years back row balance is gone with Robshaw and morgan seriously out of form and missing their star prop, I think Australia will demonstrate just how accurate Gatlands selection policy was.

Weak and deficient at 1,2,5,7,8,9,10, 13,11,14,15 and with little on the bench, The only thing can save England is rain. And lots of it.

You are completely ignoring England's secret weapon and the impact it will have on the game.

[ChequeredJersey]

I think Australia will put them to the sword. Without their Samoashire centre England are back to just the one dimension and last years back row balance is gone with Robshaw and morgan seriously out of form and missing their star prop, I think Australia will demonstrate just how accurate Gatlands selection policy was.

Weak and deficient at 1,2,5,7,8,9,10, 13,11,14,15 and with little on the bench, The only thing can save England is rain. And lots of it.

You are completely ignoring England's secret weapon and the impact it will have on the game.  

Dressing Ashton up as James O'Connor, and letting the Aussies punch his jaw Alla Manu whilst we walk over for a bunch of tries?

[Cyril]

Also may i add im not a taff! i live around 100miles due North East of the River Taff, im British Welsh.

Makes you sound like a breed of lamb.

If you're not a Taff, you're a Gog surely?

[DeludedOptimistorjustDave]

Also may i add im not a taff! i live around 100miles due North East of the River Taff, im British Welsh.

Makes you sound like a breed of lamb.

If you're not a Taff, you're a Gog surely?

And your name sounds like something from operation yew tree.

[thomh]

I think Australia will put them to the sword. Without their Samoashire centre England are back to just the one dimension and last years back row balance is gone with Robshaw and morgan seriously out of form and missing their star prop, I think Australia will demonstrate just how accurate Gatlands selection policy was.

Weak and deficient at 1,2,5,7,8,9,10, 13,11,14,15 and with little on the bench, The only thing can save England is rain. And lots of it.

You are completely ignoring England's secret weapon and the impact it will have on the game.  

Dressing Ashton up as James O'Connor, and letting the Aussies punch his jaw Alla Manu whilst we walk over for a bunch of tries?

Or, preferably, just dressing up James O'Connor as Chris Ashton.

[ChequeredJersey]

Nah, O'Connor reckons he's playing for Ireland now

[ChequeredJersey]

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/my-week-james-oconnor/

[doctor_grey]

classic stuff, CJ.

[maestegmafia]

From the telegraph

By Gavin Mairs, Rugby News Correspondent11:59PM GMT 30 Oct 2013
Northampton's Lee Dickson is in line to win his 10th cap in a new-look half-back partnership with Owen Farrell when England head coach Stuart Lancaster names his team to play Australia at Twickenham

England head coach Stuart Lancaster will reward Lee Dickson for his outstanding form with Northampton this season by handing him a starting place against Australia at Twickenham on Saturday ahead of British and Irish Lions scrum-half Ben Youngs.

Dickson is expected to win his 10th cap in a new-look half-back partnership with Owen Farrell when Lancaster names his team for the first of the three QBE Internationals at lunchtime on thursday.

Lancaster’s line-up is also set to feature first Twickenham starts for London Irish wing Marland Yarde, Saracens centre Joel Tomkins and his club team-mate Billy Vunipola.

Northampton lock Courtney Lawes is expected to the lead England line-out against the Wallabies after Geoff Parling was ruled out with mild concussion. Lawes will partner Joe Launchbury in the second row.

It is Dickson’s elevation, though, that is the most eye-catching selection, given that Youngs, capped 33 times by England, had started the second Test for the Lions against Australia less than three months ago.

Furthermore, the 28-year-old’s place in his own club side appeared to be under threat following the summer signing of Samoan international Kahn Fotuali’i, widely regarded as one of the best scrum-halves in the world game.

However, Dickson, who started both of England’s Test wins against Argentina in June, has responded in impressive fashion, producing arguably the best form of his career.

With Dickson having fallen behind Youngs and Harlequins scrum-half Danny Care in the international pecking order last season after starting the last of England’s three Six Nations matches in 2012, the competition with Fotuali’i has brought a new running dimension to the Northampton man’s game as well as a cooler head under pressure.

An impressive display against Youngs in the draw with Leicester at Welford Road clearly helped his cause and, while he continued that form into the Heineken Cup, Youngs endured a frustrating night in his side’s poor display in their victory against Treviso.

Fotuali’i is in no doubt that Dickson has earned another England start. “Lee is a credit to himself and has put in the hard work,” Fotuali’i told the BBC last week.

“Training-wise he is out there doing the extras – passing, kicking. We both do the same and feed off each other. We learn off each other. Well, I learn off him and hopefully he learns from me. I would pick him as England’s first number nine at the moment the way he’s playing.”

Dickson also recently praised Fotuali’i’s for his resurgence in form. “Kahn coming here has helped my game massively,” Dickson said. “He’s a phenomenal player and I have learnt so much off him. We are quite good friends and he has taught me a lot, telling me a few of his tricks. When Jim Mallinder called me in last season and said Kahn was coming, I was really happy.”

Elsewhere injuries have ensured that the remainder of the side will be as widely predicted. Much as Parling’s loss is unfortunate England assistant coach Graham Rowntree acknowledged that the resources at lock are deep.

“They are the strongest we have had for some time,” Rowntree said. “We have got some tight calls to make in the second-row. Courtney Lawes has impressed me with his consistency. He is a very athletic man and dependable. He has also developed into a line-out leader at Northampton. He is injury-free these days and playing 80 minutes.”

Alex Corbisiero’s knee injury means that Mako Vunipola, who struggled against Australia’s scrum in the second Test for the Lions, will be picked at loosehead prop, and is expected to feature alongside his brother, Billy, another whose performances for Saracens have been eye-catching this season. “Mako has matured while we think that Billy is ready,” Rowntree said.

The absence of Brad Barritt and Manu Tuilagi also forces Lancaster to try a fresh midfield combination of Billy Twelvetrees, who cut an impressive figure on the Argentina tour, and debutant Tomkins.

Tomkins had been due to tour Argentina as well but sustained an ankle injury. The former Wigan and England rugby league player has been one of Saracens’ standout players this season, however, and is seen as a genuine alternative at outside centre to Tuilagi.

Lancaster will be hoping that Tomkins and Yarde, another of the new generation that made an impression in Argentina, not only make a convincing transition to the big stage but also bring a freshness and cutting edge to his backline.

Australia are in a period of transition under new head coach Ewen McKenzie but showed in their narrow defeat by the All Blacks that their attacking game appears to be regaining its ruthlessness.

Rowntree has no doubt that this is a seminal period for this generation.

“It’s production time,” the England forwards coach said on Wednesday. “I would agree it is the end of the beginning, two years out from a World Cup. That is the sort of pressure we are putting on ourselves and on the players.”

Meanwhile, Harlequins centre Alex Lowe, who featured in the England squad that toured South Africa last year, has been ruled out for the rest of the season with a neck injury he sustained during the 22-12 defeat against Saracens at The Stoop on Sept 28 while making a tackle early in the first half.

[blackcanelion]

Some thoughts I wrote down on England a few weeks ago.

England are a good chance of a successful November series. England may not have the record of France or Ireland in recent Novembers, but they have been, there or there about in all their games since the 2011 World Cup.

England squad:
Forwards:
David Attwood (Bath Rugby), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Alex Corbisiero (Northampton Saints), Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby), Joe Launchbury (London Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby), Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), David Wilson (Bath Rugby), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints), Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
Backs:
Chris Ashton (Saracens), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby), Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints), Danny Care (Harlequins), Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints), Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby), Owen Farrell (Saracens), Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers), Ben Foden (Northampton Saints), Alex Goode (Saracens), Henry Trinder (Gloucester Rugby), Joel Tomkins (Saracens), Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby), Christian Wade (London Wasps), Marland Yarde (London Irish), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Fixtures
Australia: Saturday 2nd November
Argentina: Saturday 9th November
New Zealand: Saturday 16th November

Results for England in November tours (last 10 years)

Nation Won/Draw/Lost
Argentina 1/0/1
Australia 2/0/4
Canada 1/0/0
Fiji 1/0/0
New Zealand 1/0/5
Pacific islanders 1/0/0
Samoa 2/0/0
South Africa 2/0/4

England’s record in November is alright. They have won 12 out of their last 19 games since the 2011 World cup. A successful November series could set them up as a very difficult team to beat in 2015.

[Sgt_Pooly]

"England head coach Stuart Lancaster will reward Lee Dickson for his outstanding form with Northampton "

I'd hardly call his form outstanding, he's played well.

"Meanwhile, Harlequins centre Alex Lowe"

Who's this Alex Lowe? The Telegraph are great.....

[Hood83]

Can't say i'm looking forward to Dickson and Tomkins playing, it has stodge written all over it. If our backrow doesn't muller Oz at the breakdown we are going to have some very slow and ponderous ball shipped along our line. I don't think Tomkins is anywhere near international class.

[hugehandoff]

Update from the Sydney Morning Herald.

London: James Horwill has been dropped as Wallabies captain with instructions to regain his abrasive form in clash against England at Twickenham on Saturday.
In another shock move, five-eighth Quade Cooper will be named as vice-captain ahead of halfback Will Genia, who has captained the side before and had been coach Ewen McKenzie's first choice for the deputy role.

Under pressure to perform: James Horwill. Photo: Brendan Esposito
Horwill will start in the second row alongside Sitaleki Timani, who replaces the injured Rob Simmons, but will cede the captaincy to No.8 Ben Mowen.
Advertisement
And Matt Toomua will retain the No.12 jersey ahead of Christian Lealiifano, while Nick Cummins will return to the wing alongside Adam Ashley-Cooper, with Tevita Kuridrani staying at No.13.
Scott Fardy also returns to the starting line-up at blindside breakaway, while Kane Douglas comes on to the bench as second-row cover and Ben McCalman moves back to the bench.

Wake-up call: Ewen McKenzie wants James Horwill to focus on returning to top form. Photo: Getty Images
Horwill has been the first-choice Wallabies captain since taking over from Rocky Elsom for the final Test before the 2011 World Cup.
Injury kept him out of the Test team last year but he assumed the captaincy again under former coach Robbie Deans for the British and Irish Lions series and retained the honour when McKenzie took over before the Rugby Championship.
McKenzie said the decision was not permanent but he did not say when or if Horwill would resume the role.

Hold the phone: Quade Cooper has been named vice-captain. Photo: Getty Images
The Wallabies coach said the move was designed to get Horwill back to his playing best and had nothing to do with the quality of his leadership.
"I don't think that's an issue, primarily you pick a team you're picking on performance, you need them to deliver," McKenzie said.
"I know what he's capable of and I think he's been a little bit off the pace of what he's capable of delivering, so I want him to focus on that.
"It's going to be a tough game up front and he's one of our most abrasive players, so I want him to play to his full potential."
It is almost certain that Horwill would have been on the bench on Saturday had Simmons not re-strained the medial ligament in his left knee at training earlier this week. Medical staff ruled him out on Wednesday.
McKenzie would not be drawn on the question but has traditionally thought of Horwill and Timani as interchangeable at No.5 but not, ideally, starting second-row partners.
The captaincy decision is a stunning one but McKenzie has already shown he is not afraid to make changes. He shocked the rugby community when he did not pick Cooper at five-eighth in the first two Tests under his leadership, then did it again when he benched Genia in favour of Brumbies No.9 Nic White.
McKenzie said stripping Genia of the vice-captaincy was also about wanting more from his halfback's game.
McKenzie said he wanted more from the group and was prepared to make big changes and big selection calls to find that.
"You get one chance at these things, and you're given what you've got, and I've been asked to make it better," he said.
"My career in rugby has been about fixing things, people might not agree about how you get there but I worked out in my very first year of head coaching that if you don't make hard decisions you won't get very far, and certainly nothing will change.
"So if I want players to make hard decisions and play tough, I've got to do the best I can in that same space."
Horwill has had a year of monumental ups and downs. He won a race against time to make it back to Test rugby in time for the Lions series; endured a circus-like appeal process after being cleared of stamping in the second Lions Test; and then tore his calf two days before the series decider, choosing to play through the pain and captain the Wallabies in what ended in a dismal loss.
"When guys carry injuries – I've had major injuries myself – the mind is willing and sometimes the body is in a mode when you've come off a long haul out of the game and you want to make sure you're right," McKenzie said.
"He's been back playing since March roughly and he's been back on the field and he's had a couple of setbacks . . . at this point of time I want him to concentrate on being the hard-working, abrasive second-rower I know he can be."
Wallabies team to play England: Israel Folau, Adam Ashley-Cooper, Tevita Kuridrani, Matt Toomua, Nick Cummins, Quade Cooper, Will Genia, Ben Mowen (c), Michael Hooper, Scott Fardy, James Horwill, Sitaleki Timani, Ben Alexander, Stephen Moore, James Slipper. Res: Saia Fainga'a, Benn Robinson, Sekope Kepu, Kane Douglas, Ben McCalman, Nic White, Christian Lealiifano, Bernard Foley.



Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/james-horwill-stripped-of-wallabies-captaincy-for-england-test-20131031-2wjsm.html#ixzz2jHsaVVdS

[nathan]

If our pack isn't playing well then i can see dickson coming off after 50 minutes.

It's easier to look like a scrum half is playing outstandingly well when your pack is on top most of the time.

[BamBam]

If our pack does play well, then Dickson could look really good with his knack of getting the ball away very rapidly

[beshocked]

Can't say i'm looking forward to Dickson and Tomkins playing, it has stodge written all over it. If our backrow doesn't muller Oz at the breakdown we are going to have some very slow and ponderous ball shipped along our line. I don't think Tomkins is anywhere near international class.

Nice of you to write off a player before he has had even played.

You talk about slow and ponderous ball. I would say that Dickson generally gives a snappier pass than Youngs and Care who have a tendency to crab across the field and take too long to make decisions occasionally.

Dickson is in very good form. I know some posters have been waxing lyrical about Myler but he's been made to look better because of the decent form of his scrum halves.

People underestimate how much influence a 9's performance has on the 10's performance. Slow service from the 9 puts the rest of the backline under pressure but if the 9 gives the 10 more time than it makes their job much easier.

In a way it makes sense to start - Dickson/Farrell - both in good form. It means you can bring the Tigers duo of Youngs/Flood off the bench.

Farrell hasn't exactly had the best 9s to work with for his club this season so we might see a further improvement from him.

[Cyril]

Also may i add im not a taff! i live around 100miles due North East of the River Taff, im British Welsh.

Makes you sound like a breed of lamb.

If you're not a Taff, you're a Gog surely?

And your name sounds like something from operation yew tree.

Classy. Well played  

[propdavid_london]

That's a good point Nathan - its one of the reasons that I wasn't too convinced about Dickson.
The same can be said of Youngs as well, who normally is given a bit of a ride by the Tigers pack (although not so much this season).

Of the 3 contenders for the 9 shirt - Care is the one that probably has had to deal with a struggling pack the most, so I was surprised that he was the one sent home.

I guess that SL is confident that England will get the upper hand at scrum time!

[lostinwales]

One thing I would say about Dickson Farrell - Neither of them are great running threats in the way that Care, Youngs and Burns can be. You know that the Oz defense will focus further out and there will be a lot of pressure on the England centers

[sirtidychris]

Team Australia announced !!!:
15 Israel Folau
14 Adam Ashley-Cooper
13 Tevita Kuridrani
12 Matt Toomua
11 Nick Cummins
10 Quade Cooper
9 Will Genia
8 Ben Mowen (c)
7 Michael Hooper
6 Scott Fardy
5 James Horwill
4 Sitaleki Timani
3 Ben Alexander
2 Stephen Moore
1 James Slipper.

Replacements: 16 Saia Faingaa, 17 Benn Robinson, 18 Sepoke Kepu, 19 Kane Douglas, 20 Ben McCalman, 21 Nic White, 22 Christian Lealiifano, 23 Bernard Foley

Horwill dropped as captain, mowen captain, quade cooper vice captain

[Cyril]

Several of our recent(ish) tries in Aus and SA have come from quick taps/breaks from Care and Youngs. They both score quite a few tries and really keep the opposition on their toes.

While I rate Dickson and think he offers something different (perhaps more contol and speed of delivery) I'm worried we'll miss this attacking threat.

Can our scrum be as dominant as Saints'? Without Corbs I'm not sure.

[Geordie]

Well the Telegraph are usually spot on...so i take it we're going with:

1 Mako V.
2 Youngs
3 Cole
4 Launchbury
5 Lawes
6 Wood
7 Robshaw
8 Billy V.

9 Dickson
10 Farrell
11 Yarde
12 Twelvetrees
13 Tomkins
14 Ashton
15 Brown

Ill be quite happy to see that take the field...

[Hood83]

Can't say i'm looking forward to Dickson and Tomkins playing, it has stodge written all over it. If our backrow doesn't muller Oz at the breakdown we are going to have some very slow and ponderous ball shipped along our line. I don't think Tomkins is anywhere near international class.

Nice of you to write off a player before he has had even played.

You talk about slow and ponderous ball. I would say that Dickson generally gives a snappier pass than Youngs and Care who have a tendency to crab across the field and take too long to make decisions occasionally.

Dickson is in very good form. I know some posters have been waxing lyrical about Myler but he's been made to look better because of the decent form of his scrum halves.

People underestimate how much influence a 9's performance has on the 10's performance. Slow service from the 9 puts the rest of the backline under pressure but if the 9 gives the 10 more time than it makes their job much easier.

In a way it makes sense to start - Dickson/Farrell - both in good form. It means you can bring the Tigers duo of Youngs/Flood off the bench.

Farrell hasn't exactly had the best 9s to work with for his club this season so we might see a further improvement from him.

Nice of you to jump in with your usual chippy support of Sarries players.

Dickson is an unusual one for me. I'd agree when he concentrates on getting the ball away he's probably marginally quicker at getting it out from under a pack than Youngs or Care. The requirement for the scrum half to use the ball has improved his game as he was an awful dawdler before that. Youngs, for me, has gone backwards, but I think Care is a better player than Dickson, and on form his pass is as good.

Our back-line is slower than erosion and carries almost zero running threat at 9, 10, 12 and 13. I don't think that is good enough. Not a criticism of the individual players, but picked together I think we don't have enough. The Aussies are too savvy to just have it trucked up against them.

[Hood83]

Well the Telegraph are usually spot on...so i take it we're going with:

1 Mako V.
2 Youngs
3 Cole
4 Launchbury
5 Lawes
6 Wood
7 Robshaw
8 Billy V.

9 Dickson
10 Farrell
11 Yarde
12 Twelvetrees
13 Tomkins
14 Ashton
15 Brown

Ill be quite happy to see that take the field...

Hmm. I think:

Scrum: We won't get to use it as a weapon without Corbs, but Mako could/should get parity. With Lawes and Launchbury as well behind I think we hope for stalemate.

Lineout: If Lawes can call, we've got a lot of options, but Oz are ok here as well. Again, maybe parity, not sure how Oz's lineout has gone recently.

Front-row: Mako gives some decent carrying. Our work-rate should be good - but are we going to stop people on the gain-line?

Second-row - Lawes and Launchbury will get around the park well but there's a lack of ballast. Not sure Attwood is back and ready but I'd rather Lawes on the bench.

Back-line - I don;t like the centre combination.

Basically, I'm not optimistic, I still don't think Lancaster thinks about what a team needs.

[sirtidychris]

i think that backline has a good attacking threat but its in the back three rather than before where it was bascially just give it to Manu. Ashton is in great form , he will be popping up all over the place and with tompkins you have a big lad, great defence, great offload and good distribution, i will expect to see ashton running lines off him all day. With dickson and Twelvetrees we have two very good passers, twelvetrees will be making sure Yarde and Brown will be seeing alot of the ball and dickson will be geting the ball away very quickly, rather than just staring at it for a while which both Youngs and Care frustratingly do from time to time. We have a very Physical 10,12,13 combo all with great defence and all looking to get it wide..the back three will be chomping at the bit as supposed to buying gloves when barritt and tuilagi play.

[BamBam]

How has Folau gone at FB in the recent games? Obviously a great attacking threat with ball in hand and strong under the high ball when in position, but what is his positioning like when fielding kicks, and is he much of a kicker?

We have 4 strong kicking options in the backline (Dickson, Farrell, 36 and Brown) so would like to see if we can put the ball in behind him and make him turn, with the likes of Yarde chasing well

[sirtidychris]

Out of that oz backline the last thing i would want to do is kick it anywhere near folau !! He is a natural athletic unit and covers ground so well....he went well at fullback against the lions looking electric everytime he touched the ball...so doubt he will have a problem against us, kick the corners i say  

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