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Root would be "crucified" if he opens...Warne

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Root would be "crucified" if he opens...Warne Empty Root would be "crucified" if he opens...Warne

Post by KP_fan Mon 04 Nov 2013, 5:49 am

Warne is spot on.....the earlier England address the inevitable.....the better their series chances remain
Re: Cook's negativity......not much would change while he is winning
 
 
http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/story/685493.html
Cook's leadership of England has thus far been characterised by a close relationship with the coach Andy Flower and a calm guiding hand rather than any great invention in the field. England's preferred approach is of a more conservative nature than that of Clarke and the Australian coach Darren Lehmann.
 
"If Michael Clarke did the same things, I'd say he was negative, but he's not. That's not the way he captains," Warne said. "Cook can be negative, boring, not very imaginative - and still win and be pretty happy. But I think he needs to be more imaginative. If Australia play well and he continues to captain the way he does, I think England are going to lose the series.
 
"I don't think he can captain like that - and I'm not working in any capacity whatsoever for Cricket Australia. Darren Lehmann is a good mate of mine, and Michael Clarke is my best friend, of course I speak to them a lot but I call it as I see it. And I'm not the only one who thinks Alastair Cook is a negative captain.
 
"He lets the game drift. He waits for the game to come to him. I don't think he can captain the side like that. For me, Michael Clarke is the best captain in the world at the moment. He just has a lot of imagination. Cook would never have a leg slip, bat-pad and leg gully, like Clarke did for Jonathan Trott in the summer."
 
To round off his serve, Warne said England would do well not to play Joe Root at the top of the order during the series, suggesting the young Yorkshireman would be "crucified" facing the new ball on Australian pitches. Warne preferred to see Michael Carberry as Cook's opening partner, with Joe Root to bat at No. 6 instead of Jonny Bairstow.
 
"I don't think Root's an opener because of his technique. Australia found him out in England, and in Australian conditions they'll find him out more. You can't get stuck on the crease in Australia because of the pace of the wickets.
 
"It could be crucifying him if he has got to face Ryan Harris, Peter Siddle and Mitchell Johnson on some fast, bouncy pitches. I think he's just going to nick off a lot. Besides Lord's, where he got 180, Australia really did have his number."
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 04 Nov 2013, 8:16 am

Oh dear...picard 
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Post by kingraf Mon 04 Nov 2013, 9:24 am

Warne is a bit like an ancient scroll. There's a lot of truth in everything he says, it's just filled with so much romanticism it makes it hard to decipher fact from kinda-fact
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Post by KP_fan Mon 04 Nov 2013, 9:44 am

kingraf wrote:Warne is a bit like an ancient scroll. There's a lot of truth in everything he says, it's just filled with so much romanticism it makes it hard to decipher fact from kinda-fact
 
Warne certainly knows when to make the strikes even without being on the field.....a slightly stronger Aussie team would benefit a lot from warne's strikes filled with truth and slightly spiced up truths.
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Post by Mat Mon 04 Nov 2013, 11:32 am

I find it hard to take Warne seriously anymore. Too obsessed with supporting his own mate rather than providing any sort of impartial judgement.

Example in point: "Cook would never have a leg slip/gully" I seem to remember Cook putting himself there at Lords, against Clarke and erm, catching him there off Root, who wasn't exactly a conventional choice of bowler either. Think he needs to take the specs off.

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Post by KP_fan Mon 04 Nov 2013, 11:57 am

Mat wrote:I find it hard to take Warne seriously anymore. Too obsessed with supporting his own mate rather than providing any sort of impartial judgement.

Example in point: "Cook would never have a leg slip/gully" I seem to remember Cook putting himself there at Lords, against Clarke and erm, catching him there off Root, who wasn't exactly a conventional choice of bowler either. Think he needs to take the specs off.
 
Warne is Warne...larger than life and is taken seriously.
 
Evidence: See link below.....Prior, Trott, Anderson from within the team  have jumped up immediately to defend "their captain" publicly.
 
That the captain needs public display of support from his senior players is digression for the entire team, plays on the mind of captain ( who might do things diffrent from normal) and allows Warne to hijack the agenda...making the entire English team reactionary.
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/theashes/10424376/The-Ashes-2013-14-Alastair-Cook-backed-by-team-mates-after-criticism-from-Australia-legend-Shane-Warne.html
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Post by VTR Mon 04 Nov 2013, 12:56 pm

One of the highlights of the summer was Warnie's regular broadsheet column. This just likes a repeat of the garbage he was spouting in those.

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Post by JDizzle Mon 04 Nov 2013, 3:36 pm

What do you expect Prior, Trott and Anderson to say when asked is their captain too negative?! Of course they will defend him when asked, there is no other option.

I suspect Cook already knows he can be a bit too defensive at times, similar to Strauss when he first took over, and no doubts he will work on this. Warne actually has some valid points, but the way he repeats them ad nauseam gets on everyones nerves a bit.

I actually think Root will do better in Aus, where he can hang back on the crease a bit more and play off the back foot more. Will be interesting to see how the Aussies to bowl to him, they'll definitely be backing themselves to get rid of him early. Could be a crucial battle, if Trott is coming in with a softer, older ball he could bat long periods of time again.

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Post by The Fourth Lion Mon 04 Nov 2013, 4:21 pm

Shane Warne playing mind games.   He's not the first Aussie to try that ahead of a home Ashes series and he won't be the last.

Slag off the Pom captain.... try to get into the head of the inexperienced player......  and hope you've timed it well enough for it to sink in and unsettle them both.  It's cod psychology that I would expect Cook to be able to treat with the disdain it deserves.

I think Shane has gotten carried away with his second career as a TV poker player and now thinks he is some sort of master of sports psychology.  I rather think of him as a poor man's Alex Ferguson.  Now, there was a master of getting into opponent's heads.  Shane.... you're not in Alex's league.  Not even on the same planet.

Cook should laugh it off and come back with some sort of quip about the only thing he needs to protect Joe Root from is punchy Aussies who can't hold their beer.

Yawn @ Shane.


Last edited by The Fourth Lion on Mon 04 Nov 2013, 4:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by kingraf Mon 04 Nov 2013, 4:21 pm

How is Root against the short ball, generally? I ask because the fact he is an opener wearing a chest guard almost immediately draws me to the conclusion that he'd rather be in politically stable central Africa then get a barrage to the ribs. It really is rare to see a top six batsmen wearing the "mattress", even subcontinent batters generally take their chances.

Australian conditions are of course different to English conditions, but they will be the fastest Root has come up against. Hang back too far and you are going to get in trouble as the Kookaburra swings swings less - but because it's quality leather it swing for longer.
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Post by Mat Mon 04 Nov 2013, 4:46 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Mat wrote:I find it hard to take Warne seriously anymore. Too obsessed with supporting his own mate rather than providing any sort of impartial judgement.

Example in point: "Cook would never have a leg slip/gully" I seem to remember Cook putting himself there at Lords, against Clarke and erm, catching him there off Root, who wasn't exactly a conventional choice of bowler either. Think he needs to take the specs off.
 
Warne is Warne...larger than life and is taken seriously.
 
Evidence: See link below.....Prior, Trott, Anderson from within the team  have jumped up immediately to defend "their captain" publicly.
 
That the captain needs public display of support from his senior players is digression for the entire team, plays on the mind of captain ( who might do things diffrent from normal) and allows Warne to hijack the agenda...making the entire English team reactionary.
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/theashes/10424376/The-Ashes-2013-14-Alastair-Cook-backed-by-team-mates-after-criticism-from-Australia-legend-Shane-Warne.html
I'd be far more worried if they didn't back their captain.

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Post by KP_fan Mon 04 Nov 2013, 5:02 pm

JDizzle wrote:What do you expect Prior, Trott and Anderson to say when asked is their captain too negative?! Of course they will defend him when asked, there is no other option.

 
Not responding is an option.
many subjects are not important enouhg to invoke a response.
 
this one was deemed so important that the vice captain and 2 other seniors were "compelled" to respond all in the same day.
 
b.t.w  Warne is not wrong.....he has touched the raw nerve cleverly and uprfront......
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Post by VTR Mon 04 Nov 2013, 5:18 pm

The quotes defending Cook are off Sky. Sky have exclusive rights to show the Ashes in the UK and their blanket coverage has already started. That would include quite a few player interviews then.

Its really not hard to understand is it unless you are a keyboard warrior looking for a non-existent angle on things.

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Post by JDizzle Mon 04 Nov 2013, 5:54 pm

Haha, not responding is an option. Brilliant. It's the standard answer, them refusing to comment would make far more of an issue about it. Looking for something that isn't there KP_Fan.

Generally I find it's best not to make smart quips and try to touch the nerve of the opposition who have won the last three series against you and you've only beaten three times in the last 15 Tests. If Australia were on top then his comments would be far more tenable.

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Post by Duty281 Mon 04 Nov 2013, 6:31 pm

Besides that 180, Australia had his number - says Shane Warne.

I suppose besides England winning three test matches, and being a whisker from a fourth - Australia really had us on the back foot.

Laugh

Pathetic whinging Aussie.

God Save the Queen and Rule Britannia - another 3-0 coming England's way.

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Post by KP_fan Mon 04 Nov 2013, 7:31 pm

VTR wrote:The quotes defending Cook are off Sky. Sky have exclusive rights to show the Ashes in the UK and their blanket coverage has already started. That would include quite a few player interviews then.

so sky thought Warne's comments were important enough to specifically go and seek responses from 3 of most senior english cricketers Shocked 
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Post by KP_fan Tue 05 Nov 2013, 9:34 am

Cook ready to reshuffle the batting...."Root not a certainity to Open"

http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013-14/content/story/685711.html


and Cook admits Warne's comment has raised his blood pressure......and defends his win record


here:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013-14/content/story/685659.html

on account of these statements from Cook directly....Warne wins the war of words throuhg media.
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Post by VTR Tue 05 Nov 2013, 9:44 am

KP_fan wrote:
VTR wrote:The quotes defending Cook are off Sky. Sky have exclusive rights to show the Ashes in the UK and their blanket coverage has already started. That would include quite a few player interviews then.

so sky thought Warne's comments were important enough to specifically go and seek responses from 3 of most senior english cricketers Shocked 
I''m not answering that for you, work it out for yourself. Especially considering most of the shoot you spout on here has some link to a news story I assume you have a vague grasp of how the media works.

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Post by alfie Tue 05 Nov 2013, 11:33 am

KP_fan wrote:Cook ready to reshuffle the batting...."Root not a certainity to Open"

http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013-14/content/story/685711.html


and Cook admits Warne's comment has raised his blood pressure......and defends his win record


here:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013-14/content/story/685659.html

on account of these statements from Cook directly....Warne wins the war of words throuhg media.
Oh give it a rest , KP_f ...Warne might have reeled you in but having seen Cook giving his response he didn't strike me as a man who was even remotely concerned about the comments of the professional Aussie stirrer...

Warne has been playing these games for years : England know what he is up to , and it isn't going to distract them in the least. Naturally Sky go seeking responses - that is what media organisations do .

It is all just banter.

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Post by Corporalhumblebucket Tue 05 Nov 2013, 11:26 pm

QED

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Post by skyeman Tue 05 Nov 2013, 11:37 pm

Smile Looks like the No6 spot is sorted for Brisbane. Eng XI 22/0.

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Post by skyeman Wed 06 Nov 2013, 4:16 am

Confidence boosting 100's from Cook and Carberry. Eng XI 209/0. Obviously Root going back to six for Brisbane. The right thing for now. Lucky Warne with his timing.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 06 Nov 2013, 7:22 am

So my 1st wicket method bet still hangs in the balance...Shocked 

Carberry firmly putting himself in the side it seems
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Post by KP_fan Wed 06 Nov 2013, 7:55 am

Henriques, Holland, Maxwell and Khwaja as 3rd, 4th 5th slow and medium bowlers bowlers doing about 50 overs between ain't much of an attack.
 
But there is nothing like time in the middle when the aim is warm-ups.
 
Is this enough to send Root their first choice opener down the order without giving him even a game ?
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Post by jimbohammers Wed 06 Nov 2013, 10:52 am

Get in there Carbs! So happy for him!

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Post by KP_fan Wed 06 Nov 2013, 11:31 am

I see Carberry is already 33+ in age averaging 44 in FC....unproven in international cricket.
 
What was wrong with Compton thouhg....who did his job in India and a very good job with 2 international hundreds in NZ
aged only 30
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Post by KP_fan Wed 06 Nov 2013, 11:35 am

and here is whhat Carberry says

http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013-14/content/story/686021.html

Carberry credits Warne with giving him the early impetus to find himself as a county batsman after frustrating stints at Kent and Surrey. "Shane Warne is basically the reason why I got a chance to play Test cricket,"
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Post by guildfordbat Wed 06 Nov 2013, 2:54 pm

Like a few others here, I'm some way from being convinced that Carberry is a long term solution for the opening slot. However, he couldn't have done any better today and, as I suggested on the other thread, has shown he can be the one walking out with Cook for the first Test.

I've watched a recording of some of the three sessions. Carberry lacked elegance at times - particularly at the start, but dug in well, kept his head and then really opened up having reached his fifty. As the end neared, he shut up shop determined to be there on the second morning. In many ways, a text book performance from an opener and a text book opening partnership with Cook (I'll leave Warne to comment on the skipper. Wink )

The bowling was more capable and containing than threatening. Australia A seemed in need of a decent back up to Copeland and Cutting; Maxwell has proven fine for Surrey seconds but shouldn't be bowling 20 odd overs here. The crowd seemed sparse and the environment lacking hostility. Things will certainly get much tougher which is why I'm not going overboard but there was personal pressure* (I don't like the word but you know what I mean) and Carberry coped incredibly well.

Root might be privately disappointed but not nearly so much as Ballance and Bairstow who both now seem certain (barring injuries) to miss out on the first Test and probably much more. Bairstow along with Panesar hasn't even played a game yet. I did wonder before if the party contained one too many. Big isn't always better.

* As regards pressure, I always think back to the words of the Australian allrounder and WWII pilot Keith Miller: ''Pressure is a Messerschmitt up your arse, playing cricket is not.'' I suspect new poster Fourth Lion would approve - a warm welcome if you're looking in. thumbsup

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Post by msp83 Wed 06 Nov 2013, 5:37 pm

I was hoping that since they took the call to put Joe in at the top, they'd stick with him. He'll certainly be a very good number 6, but I am not sure Carberry is the solution to the problems at the top. Nothing I followed in ODI cricket of him suggests he would be a good test opener, his FC record isn't screaming 'Pick Me', and I don't think he's young enough to go in with one of those calls based on potential.

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Post by guildfordbat Wed 06 Nov 2013, 6:10 pm

msp83 wrote:I was hoping that since they took the call to put Joe in at the top, they'd stick with him. He'll certainly be a very good number 6, but I am not sure Carberry is the solution to the problems at the top. Nothing I followed in ODI cricket of him suggests he would be a good test opener, his FC record isn't screaming 'Pick Me', and I don't think he's young enough to go in with one of those  calls based on potential.
Msp - I tend to agree. I was coming from a similar position on the other thread (Hoggy's one headed ''Bowlers going well'') when I suggested Carberry's 70 odd in the opening match had muddied the waters, particularly with Root then only scoring 30 odd. However, to be fair to Carberry, he's pushed things on miles further today and couldn't have realistically done any more. I'm unconvinced it'll last but it would seem mighty unreasonable not to give him an opportunity now.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 06 Nov 2013, 9:44 pm

Plus none of the potential number 6's have really shown they can do anything yet, Bairstow last summer and Ballance in his limited opportunities so far. Gotta go with the form
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Post by Duty281 Wed 06 Nov 2013, 10:19 pm

Root at 6 would be a backward step. Keep him at opener (doesn't look likely now though), and Ballance at 6.

Carberry surely isn't the answer, and a century against a poor attack doesn't really change my thinking.

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Post by guildfordbat Wed 06 Nov 2013, 11:27 pm

Duty - I trust I've already shown I'm not Carberry's greatest fan. However, even against a poor attack he deserves credit for the application and judgment shown in batting out the entire first day and putting on an unbroken stand of 300 with Cook. I'm still not sold on his technique but his temperament surprised and impressed me today.

A shame that the weather has currently put a block on things.

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Post by alfie Thu 07 Nov 2013, 11:49 am

The weather has the potential to seriously interfere with the England buildup. After losing a full day , a declaration is almost compulsory now so none of the other batsmen are going to get a hit in this innings . If the bowlers can do a job they will get a second chance , where Root can presumably have a go opening. OK , but if the Australian bats - or more rain - delay them too long then a chance to get meaningful time for Pietersen , have another (hopefully not so brief as usual) look at Ballance - even give Prior a decent hit - could be compromised.
I am sure England would like to play the intended Test team in the third warm up : but it may not be possible. Which might mean the call on Carberry needs to be made early.

Like others on here , I am unsure how good Carberry really is for Tests : but it would be bizarre to omit a player who has just scored a 70 and a 150 in order to keep Root opening and then pick at six either a player who hasn't made any runs on tour or one who hasn't played yet. Let us hope things work out so the other players get some meaningful time in the middle.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 07 Nov 2013, 12:14 pm

Don't think the forecast is any better for tomorrow's play (today's I dunno).

Agree on your final Carberry point Alfie. Would be bizarre to omit him now, he's done all he can to get selected and really he should do. He's the form man
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Post by guildfordbat Thu 07 Nov 2013, 12:33 pm

I heard earlier that play would now be extended and brought forward to begin at 9:30 am local time, following the second day wash out.

That may be academic if the rain continues. However, if the weather permits and we declare straightaway that could mean a very long day for the England bowlers. Cue another edition of Tremlett Watch ....

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 07 Nov 2013, 11:18 pm

Weather again, really come at the wrong time for us
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Post by KP_fan Fri 08 Nov 2013, 6:13 am

the first test is on 21st.......and only one 3 day FC game until then.
Eng should organize one or even two 2 day, 14 a side practise game some where in between.
there are big gaps between games
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Post by Hoggy_Bear Fri 08 Nov 2013, 8:35 am

Much of the same in Shane's Telegraph column today.

Dig at Cook. Check.
Boring England. Check.
Support for mate (KP). Check.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/theashes/10433879/Ashes-2013-14-If-Kevin-Pietersen-replaced-Alastair-Cook-as-captain-England-could-rule-the-world.html

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Post by VTR Fri 08 Nov 2013, 9:34 am

I think Warne is missing the wider context. England were playing attacking cricket under Strauss but the wheels came off badly in the UAE and at home vs SA.

After that I think it was back to basics i.e. lets make ourselves hard to beat first, which is exactly the mindset that Strauss started with after that awful 40-odd all out in the Windies. I think England will start to be more positive now Cook has a few results behind him.

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Post by KP_fan Fri 08 Nov 2013, 10:47 am

Ashes 2013-14: If Kevin Pietersen replaced Alastair Cook as captain England could rule the world

that is the screaming headline on the aforementioned Shane Warne article.

This guy so thinks like me Shocked 
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Post by Stella Fri 08 Nov 2013, 10:52 am

KP_fan wrote:Ashes 2013-14: If Kevin Pietersen replaced Alastair Cook as captain England could rule the world

that is the screaming headline on the aforementioned Shane Warne article.

This guy so thinks like me Shocked 
yep, Pietersen done so well last time.
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Post by KP_fan Fri 08 Nov 2013, 10:58 am

Stella wrote:
KP_fan wrote:Ashes 2013-14: If Kevin Pietersen replaced Alastair Cook as captain England could rule the world

that is the screaming headline on the aforementioned Shane Warne article.

This guy so thinks like me Shocked 
yep, Pietersen done so well last time.
yeah....he was too hot to handle for the conservative ECB management who'd rather have a "tame-good-boy" than a "Brash-conquering-leader"
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Post by Stella Fri 08 Nov 2013, 11:00 am

KP_fan wrote:
Stella wrote:
KP_fan wrote:Ashes 2013-14: If Kevin Pietersen replaced Alastair Cook as captain England could rule the world

that is the screaming headline on the aforementioned Shane Warne article.

This guy so thinks like me Shocked 
yep, Pietersen done so well last time.
yeah....he was too hot to handle for the conservative ECB management who'd rather have a "tame-good-boy" than a "Brash-conquering-leader"
He had his chance and ballsed it up. Let him get on with batting, I say.
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Post by KP_fan Fri 08 Nov 2013, 12:00 pm

 I hope the English do not give the chance to Warne to write with the Aussies getting a less likely win in T1.

OMG...I shudder to think...how he will rip into Eng then....censored

Now on the back of 3-0 with the power of his pen he has convinced all inclding I am sure Cook's Mom about the dour-defensive negativity of her son....
and made Eng change their opener even before the series started
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Post by Hoggy_Bear Fri 08 Nov 2013, 12:05 pm

KP_Fan
If Root doesn't open in the first test it will have nothing to do with Warne. More a matter of Carberry's 78 and 153*

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Post by KP_fan Fri 08 Nov 2013, 12:16 pm

Hoggy_Bear wrote:KP_Fan
If Root doesn't open in the first test it will have nothing to do with Warne. More a matter of Carberry's 78 and 153*
 
 
I fully believe that Wink
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Post by sirfredperry Fri 08 Nov 2013, 12:23 pm

Stella wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Stella wrote:
KP_fan wrote:Ashes 2013-14: If Kevin Pietersen replaced Alastair Cook as captain England could rule the world

that is the screaming headline on the aforementioned Shane Warne article.

This guy so thinks like me Shocked 
yep, Pietersen done so well last time.
yeah....he was too hot to handle for the conservative ECB management who'd rather have a "tame-good-boy" than a "Brash-conquering-leader"
He had his chance and ballsed it up. Let him get on with batting, I say.
Warne gets more laughable by the minute. What next? Admiral Lord Nelson, with one arm and one eye, being recalled to field, presumably, at short leg.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear Fri 08 Nov 2013, 12:31 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Hoggy_Bear wrote:KP_Fan
If Root doesn't open in the first test it will have nothing to do with Warne. More a matter of Carberry's 78 and 153*
 
 
I fully believe that Wink
Good to see that you accept the truth of the matter.

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Post by DouglasJardinesbox Fri 08 Nov 2013, 7:15 pm

You are all wrong. Warne is not interested in helping his mate Clarke, or his country. He's only interested in his own self importance and image. He's turning into a pantomime villain. With a little bit of spin...

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