For Ref's Sake!

Saw a post on the fact that Gatland might be refusing to meet Rolland before Wales game against the Boks. Hyperbole and rumour mongering to be sure but it's raised a unique point.

What ref do you dread to see on the sheet when your team is coming up to play? Equally who do you think does a good job?

Gotta be honest George "Clownshoes" Clancy or Rolland are both pretty unpopular with me. Craig Joubert is a new edition to the Rugger Radge black list of ref's.

Strangely I quite like Barnes and Poite's adjudication. Nigel Owens though for me is the best ref in World Rugby.

The good the bad and the downright nasty of rugby referees, discuss...

I always fear Joubert but only when we come up against NZ, everyone fears Joubert when NZ are involved, and rightly so.

I won't get to see Barnes ref my team, which is a shame because he is generally high quality I think.

Poite is ok, likes his whistle at the scrum too much for me though.

Don't think Clancy or Rolland are bad at all, it's just Rolland has built a rep off of 1 red card and likes to listen to himself talk, and explain why he knows more than anyone else.

Hard to criticise Owens currently, I used to think he was a bit of a show off and 'look at me' type, but this season and last has stepped up and out from the crowd as the best.

butterfingers wrote:I always fear Joubert but only when we come up against NZ, everyone fears Joubert when NZ are involved, and rightly so.

I won't get to see Barnes ref my team, which is a shame because he is generally high quality I think.

Poite is ok, likes his whistle at the scrum too much for me though.

Don't think Clancy or Rolland are bad at all, it's just Rolland has built a rep off of 1 red card and likes to listen to himself talk, and explain why he knows more than anyone else.

Hard to criticise Owens currently, I used to think he was a bit of a show off and 'look at me' type, but this season and last has stepped up and out from the crowd as the best.

True in some aspects, but I did see him sin bin Ryan Grant and Adam Jones at the same time for a Scrum collapse in a pro12 game last year. They can't both be at fault. Either one did something illegal to collapse the scrum or one did something illegal to force his opposite man collapse the scrum.

That decision in itself is a great example of Rolland insisting on himself and being in love with his own voice.

I'm a big fan of Poite - love his willingness to hammer the weaker scrum, and I agree that Owens is probably the pick of the lot at present. Owens strikes me as pretty fair and consistent

Joubert made a monumental mess of the Scotland vs Wales game last season so likewise dropped off my Xmas card list, and I've always struggled to follow what Clancy is talking about. The less said about Pollock in that 1st Lions Test the better.

Wayne Barnes when playing the French , Held Romain Poite in high regard till the Bismarck Incident now not so much sadly . Steve "i'm the most important figure on the pitch " Walsh is very annoying much like George Clancy

On the plus side Nigel Owens is head and shoulders above the rest at the moment , Glen Jackson isnt bad and Chris Pollock is okay

Who'd be a Ref?

Scottish refs are generally the worst. I dread them.

There is a strengths and weaknesses thing as well. Watching Barnes I think he makes the right kinds of games flow very well. He isnt whistle happy. I do think that he isnt the best at dealing with bad tempered games though.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

butterfingers wrote:I always fear Joubert but only when we come up against NZ, everyone fears Joubert when NZ are involved, and rightly so.

I won't get to see Barnes ref my team, which is a shame because he is generally high quality I think.

Poite is ok, likes his whistle at the scrum too much for me though.

Don't think Clancy or Rolland are bad at all, it's just Rolland has built a rep off of 1 red card and likes to listen to himself talk, and explain why he knows more than anyone else.

Hard to criticise Owens currently, I used to think he was a bit of a show off and 'look at me' type, but this season and last has stepped up and out from the crowd as the best.

True in some aspects, but I did see him sin bin Ryan Grant and Adam Jones at the same time for a Scrum collapse in a pro12 game last year. They can't both be at fault. Either one did something illegal to collapse the scrum or one did something illegal to force his opposite man collapse the scrum.

That decision in itself is a great example of Rolland insisting on himself and being in love with his own voice.

Thats what I mean, he seems to have big boots now because he was the daddy who sent a captain off in a world cup semi when every other ref at the tournament would've gone for yellow, he now likes to insist how big and bad he is. I watched him at Edinburgh a few weeks back and didn't care for him in that game either.

Pollock is ok, I don't mind him, I havn't seen enough of Jackson to comment. Steve 'OMG which way are the cameras pointing toward me' Walsh, the less I say about him the better.

Poite - bad in a funny kind of way - as being honest, I don't give a damn who the ref is as I mostly blame players or coaches if things don't work out.  
The ref is 89% an incidental presence in my eyes.............. except perhaps for when one gave sweets to a ballboy after one particularly notable game.

Anyway, as a pantomime villain, I like to see Poite turn up.

As a ref who is the best in the world and who refs the rules rather than his perceptions... it's Nigel Owens.  And the Welsh think the Irish hate them!... or was that the other way round

Clancy?  Never heard of him...but by the sounds of him, I'd like if he was given an Irish game sometime

the best ref's are the ones who go unnoticed.

I like Poite because he is normally bang on the money at scrum time and I like Barnes because he lets the game flow.

I like Owens because he is the best of both worlds and is fantastic at controlling the normally thicker skulled players.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Owens strikes me as pretty fair and consistent

Consistency is the key thing. You don't mind a ref being wrong, as long as he's consistently wrong and both sides suffer his wrongness (?) equally. There's nothing worse than seeing one side get away with something that the other side are getting pinged for.

Obviously, a referee who's consistent and right is preferable.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:the best ref's are the ones who go unnoticed.

I like Poite because he is normally bang on the money at scrum time and I like Barnes because he lets the game flow.

I like Owens because he is the best of both worlds and is fantastic at controlling the normally thicker skulled players.

  Roman... Is that you?

Splutter .... Cough.... Barnes? Let's the game flow?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Owens strikes me as pretty fair and consistent

Consistency is the key thing. You don't mind a ref being wrong, as long as he's consistently wrong and both sides suffer his wrongness (?) equally. There's nothing worse than seeing one side get away with something that the other side are getting pinged for.

Using specific examples, Joubert in the Scotland Vs Wales game in the 6N will be long remembered as a man who let the game degenerate into a penalty fest. A shame since in the early stages both teams looked to be playing an attacking game.

The match went down the toilet as soon as Grant conceded that first penalty in the Scrum:

Grant - Pinged for early engagement (scrum put in reversed)
Grant - Pinged for driving early (free kick, Wales Scrum Again)
Grant - Pinged for not engaging quickly enough (Wales penalty)

There was no way out for Grant in that situation. Credit to Adam Jones, he played Joubert like a fiddle in that match. The Scottish front row (Grant in particular) weren't streetwise enough to get Joubert onside.

Although it is the Ref's job to referee fairly. You can't ping a guy twice for early engagement and then penalize him for not engaging quickly enough.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Splutter .... Cough.... Barnes? Let's the game flow?

I think Barnes is ok, he lets both teams have the benefit of the doubt at the breakdown and it keeps the game flowing. Nothing worse than a whislte happy ref who forces the game into territory and goal kicking festival.

Walsh has improved a bit, but his mix of ego and ineptness in certain aspects of the game still terrify me.

On the plus side, I'm looking forward to seeing Glen Jackson get more international refereeing opportunities, I've been pretty impressed whenever I've seen him take to the middle, particularly in his general refereeing ethos.

Nigel Owens is the current top ref, Rolland is quite a good ref but everyone seems to dislike seeing him. In the old days whenever Chris White ref'd any Irish team it was always a disaster...
One of the better refs in the past was Joel Jutge.

Scottish refs are more technical minded (as opposed to Owens who tries to interpret what is going on more). Jim Fleming way back was a nightmare of a ref...would blow up his grannie for offside...

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

butterfingers wrote:I always fear Joubert but only when we come up against NZ, everyone fears Joubert when NZ are involved, and rightly so.

I won't get to see Barnes ref my team, which is a shame because he is generally high quality I think.

Poite is ok, likes his whistle at the scrum too much for me though.

Don't think Clancy or Rolland are bad at all, it's just Rolland has built a rep off of 1 red card and likes to listen to himself talk, and explain why he knows more than anyone else.

Hard to criticise Owens currently, I used to think he was a bit of a show off and 'look at me' type, but this season and last has stepped up and out from the crowd as the best.

True in some aspects, but I did see him sin bin Ryan Grant and Adam Jones at the same time for a Scrum collapse in a pro12 game last year. They can't both be at fault. Either one did something illegal to collapse the scrum or one did something illegal to force his opposite man collapse the scrum.

That decision in itself is a great example of Rolland insisting on himself and being in love with his own voice.

I suspect they probably weren't both at fault, but they certainly could be!