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Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 10 Nov 2013, 5:57 pm

First topic message reminder :

Swansea 3-2 Stoke

What has happened to Stoke's defence
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Post by Guest on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 5:22 pm

Matin Jol must be on his last leg now?

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Post by westisbest on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 5:30 pm

FreekShow wrote:Top stuff Westy OK 

Congrats on the baby. I'll have one or two these guinness  for you buddy.






cheers mysti

cheers freek. Good man:OK

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Post by Guest on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 5:32 pm

Gus Poyet still furious!!

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 5:39 pm

I'm sure everyone is jealous of a team that hasn't won anything for 8 years not that success is any reason to be jealous anyway. I support Man United not because we're successful but we've largely built a team around young british talent whereas Arsenal have tended to use young foreign talent.

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 5:40 pm

Arsenal have done there bit as well Hammer..

Wilshire, Walcott, gibbs

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 5:44 pm

I'm not talking primarily about the present Mysti, if we go back 5 years how many english/british players did they have?

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 5:45 pm

those 3 at youth level.


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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 5:48 pm

or should i say two of them and Ox(walcot came from southamptoin or somewhere didnt he)

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 5:49 pm

but anyway that could be 3 players that will get into the England squad from there youth system and 4 from there team

that is better than most clubs out there

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 5:51 pm

I would argue they had Walcott and Gibbs that's it, not enough english representation for an english team not that many of the top teams are much better.

Chamberlain was also from southampton while Gibbs is technically a wimbledon youth product.

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 5:53 pm

those 4 plus jenkinson are 5 of our best young players out there.

name 5 young English players that are better from any other single club

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 5:55 pm

Man u may have been doing it in the past, but at the moment I think arsernal have overtaken them in nuturing englsh talent.

I also think that Fergie made life very hard for English managers

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Post by PaulHv2 on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 6:05 pm

Oxlaide-Chamberlain and Walcott both came from Southampton though. Southampton are producing some fantastic English talent at the moment.
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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 6:06 pm

Aye , we have to say that Southampton have produced the best talent, but arsernal probably own the best young talent,

i

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 6:07 pm

Like I said Mysti it isn't just about the here and now, I doubt anyone on here has starting supporting their club in the past 2/3 years. If we look at Rooney as an example, who actually nurtured his talent, was it Everton or Man United? I'd say it was Everton personally, they saw the raw talent and made him into the player that took Euro 2004 by storm, it was then down to United to make sure his talent wasn't wasted. Wilshere and debatabley Gibbs were nurtured by Arsenal, the others you mentioned were not.

If we're including Jenkinson in this debate I may as well include reserve team players because he simply isn't good enough.

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 6:09 pm

Hammersmith he isnt a reserve player , and if you had been watching the under 21's - then you would know how good this lad is..

those 5 eclipse any other 5 IMO in any single club

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 6:13 pm

Haha jealous of Arsenal? Who would be? Titles aren't won in November.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 6:16 pm

Zaha has looked amazing for the under 21's though Mysti

Welbeck, Cleverley, Jones, Smalling and Zaha are to me a better quartet but that's down to not rating Jenkinson, Chamberlain and Wilshere always being injured, Walcott being predictable and Gibbs not being a great defender.

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 6:18 pm

Yes zaha does look amazing AND UNITED IS KILLING HIM!!!!!!

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 6:23 pm

I don't put much emphasis on under 21 games Mysti, some players like Zaha are too good for them but not quite good enough for the step up so in a kind of no mans land.

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 6:26 pm

Zaha not playing first team football at the moment is the crime of the century.

This is the player that got a pretty average championship side up on almost on his own,(I am a palace fan btw)

this kids need to  be playing,

jenkinson,gibbs,wilshire,walcot have played this year for arsernal

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 6:30 pm

jenkenson 7 games for arsernal in the PL this season..

you lot wont even play Zaha and are seriously struggling on the wings..

And you are trying to defend united and british talent!


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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 6:38 pm

I have complete faith in any of our managers so Moyes must be seeing something that you're not Mysti.

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 6:39 pm

What exactly are you seeing?

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 6:41 pm

I'm seeing nothing to be honest but Moyes is the one who sees him in training every day, if he doesn't think he's ready then that's good enough for me.

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 6:43 pm

I just hope you loan him out, there are many teams(above united in the league) that are crying out for him.

The problem is you wont even loan him to a club in a better position either. He will probably go to somewhere like Cardiff that is no threat to your league position(which would make me crazy because that is a kick in the teeth to palace)

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 6:47 pm

Who are these team above us Mysti?

I'd send him on loan to a team like Newcastle personally, a good mid table team.

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 6:47 pm

newcastle Smile

actually i just checked you are level on points

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 6:49 pm

I didnt realise you were back up to 6th.

You must be happy Wink

fighting out them uefa cup places

Wink

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 6:51 pm

We'll be up to 4th if we beat Cardiff tomorrow, despite having an awful start nobody has taken advantage of it.

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Post by J.Benson II on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 7:18 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Welbeck, Cleverley, Jones, Smalling and Zaha are to me a better quartet but that's down to not rating Jenkinson, Chamberlain and Wilshere always being injured, Walcott being predictable and Gibbs not being a great defender.
Yeah but you're a United fan. Ask any Arsenal fan and they would say that their young English bunch is better and I don't think either set of fans would swap one for the other.

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Post by Fernando on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 7:23 pm

Smalling > Jenkinson
Jones > Gibbs - Just in general
Cleverley < Wilshere
Chamberlain < Zaha  - Down to PL/CL experience
Welbeck < Walcott  - More goals over last 3 seasons - Both seem to play wide-ish/forward now


Last edited by Fernando on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 7:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 7:24 pm

In all fairness i have to admit the two sets of 5 are pretty even.

But I think most neutrals would go with arsenals 5.



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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 7:25 pm

Fernando you missed out gibbs

Gibbs > ???

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Post by Fernando on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 7:31 pm

Since Jones was only one left

Jones > Gibbs. He's just better and will be future England CB. Gibbs needs to be injured left.

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 7:32 pm

nah you cant do it like that

because you could just go with

wilshire > jones
gibbs > cleverly

which goes in arsenals favour

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Post by Fernando on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 7:34 pm

You can't compare a full back and a CM.

You can 2 defenders.

PS it's Wilshere

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 7:35 pm

jones plays best in midfield imo

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Post by Guest on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 7:36 pm

another poor showing from the Hammers Sad Really worried about where we could end up this season, there's no spark at the moment and we dont look like scoring goals... 1 attempt on goal all game, and that was in injury time!

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Post by Guest on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 7:37 pm

Of all of those English players mentioned I'd say that only Jones and Wilshere are potential greats.

The sooner Utd cement Jones into the CB position the better. He has all the tools to be a superb CB.

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 7:40 pm

anyway best not to try and match the 5 players against individuals.

best to rate them

Jenkinson for me- top talent-as good as smalling for me. Smalling was amateur in the last England game, jenkinson exeptional in the last under 21 game, both  average at pl level at the moment.

Jenkinson 8/10
Smalling 8/10

wilshire 9/10
cleverley 7/10(i defended him last England game- but no one else did- i think he has a bad rep -but i am still giving him a 7)

chamberlain 8/10
zaha 8/10

wlebeck 8/10
walcott 9/10

jones 9/10
gibbs 8/10

Arsernal win by 2 pts

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Post by Guest on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 7:44 pm

Okay then:

Jenkinson 7/10
Smalling 7/10

Wilshere 9/10
Cleverley 6/10

Chamberlain 8/10
Zaha 6/10

Wellbeck 8/10
Walcott 8/10

Jones 9/10
Gibbs 7/10

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 7:46 pm

You are favouring Arsenal there bud.

I think you are harsh on Zaha- but then he isnt really proven yet


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Post by Fernando on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 7:47 pm

Dan Crowley we took from Villa will be the best of the lot he's going to be top quality OK 

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Post by Guest on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 7:49 pm

Exactly Myst. I've seen nothing from Zaha to suggest he warrants any mark higher than 6 but the night is young and his time to shine will come I'm sure. Whether it's in a Utd shirt is another matter. Not sure that Moyes is that hung up on him.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 7:54 pm

You cannot compare Smalling in a full international to Jenkinson in an U21 game, the fact one is a regular starter for england says it all Mysti. Smalling is miles ahead of Jenkinson in terms of both talent and potential, his performance against Arsenal was world class as was Jones'.

Jones and Smalling are better than Gibbs and Jenkinson by some distance as is Wilshere over Cleverley. As for the attackers Welbeck and Walcott are pretty even, both play out wide but are given very different roles within the team. As for Ox and Zaha, one doesn't play and the other is always injured. I'd take our five every day of the week.

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 7:57 pm

As a palace fan it's a tough choice but I would just go with arsenals.

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Post by Guest on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 8:27 pm

The refereeing is getting worse and worse and managers defending woeful decisions is getting ridiculous.  The Wes Brown sending off was plain stupid, he got to the ball first, cleared it and the stoke player jumped over the trailing leg.  Hughes attempting to justify the decision makes himself appear a complete tool similar to Mugringo.

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Post by Guest on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 8:35 pm

Hughes is an idiot though, nothing new there.

What's more important is that we're 8th on 20 points, above City & on a roll. No Europa league to distract us & Pardew finally understands we can't have passengers in the team. City spend £90m, Spurs spend £100m & we spent £2m maybe on a loan deal for Loic! Got to love it!

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 8:42 pm

We're frickin hopeless. Hughton must go now, the crowd has turned
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