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Australia vs England 1st test match thread

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 21 Nov - 8:26

First topic message reminder :

The Ashes - 1st Test, Brisbane
21-25 November, 2013

Australia:
CJL Rogers, DA Warner, SR Watson, MJ Clarke*, SPD Smith, GJ Bailey,
BJ Haddin†, PM Siddle, MG Johnson, NM Lyon, RJ Harris.

England:
AN Cook*, MA Carberry, IJL Trott, KP Pietersen, IR Bell, JE Root,
MJ Prior†, SCJ Broad, GP Swann, JM Anderson, CT Tremlett

Umpires: Aleem Dar (Pakistan) and HDPK Dharmasena (Sri Lanka)
TV umpire: M Erasmus (South Africa)
Match referee: JJ Crowe (New Zealand)
Reserve umpire: P Wilson (Australia)
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Post by ChequeredJersey Fri 22 Nov - 12:30

Bloody Cook
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Post by mystiroakey Fri 22 Nov - 12:34

Yeah cooks gone!

Good signs from Carbs, not happy about Root being pushed back up, but if carbs proves his worth. Our batting looks a lot stronger with root in the middle!


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Post by guildfordbat Fri 22 Nov - 13:06

Lunch. England 55/2. Narrowly Australia's session in my book.

Trott goes on the stroke of lunch to make all the difference. So similar to yesterday when Watson fell at this time. On the plus side, Carberry looking calm and in command. However, if he or Pietersen go early in the middle session, we'll definitely be in trouble ....

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Post by hodge Fri 22 Nov - 14:07

Tell you what, doing a uni assignment while the ashes is on isn't a good idea!

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Post by The Fourth Lion Fri 22 Nov - 14:14

Siddle has just dropped Pietersen off his own bowling. Oops. Very Happy 
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Post by Pal Joey Fri 22 Nov - 15:20

Wow. A change has come over the game.
England 87/6
Lyon on a hat trick...
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Post by The Fourth Lion Fri 22 Nov - 15:23

Oh dear.... England are in freefall. Complete collapse. 87 /6 with Prior getting a first ball blob and Lyon bowling his hat trick ball to Broad of all people..!!

The Aussie fans are loving it.
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Post by B91212 Fri 22 Nov - 15:38

Shocked Erm Shocked Sad

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Post by Pal Joey Fri 22 Nov - 15:41

Swann's wicket was off a Johnson no-ball. The umpires missed it and they didn't check it.
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Post by Scratch Fri 22 Nov - 15:55

Might be time to replace those Ashes with some new ones furious Shocked 

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Post by B91212 Fri 22 Nov - 16:02

Linebreaker wrote:Swann's wicket was off a Johnson no-ball. The umpires missed it and they didn't check it.
I don't think it will make much difference LB, England were well and truly all over the place by that point anyway.

So much like a repeat of yesterday with the pre lunch wicket of the number 3 leading to a collapse. For an experienced international player I thought Trott was poor, he got ruffled by the short stuff and after telling us how he'd worked so hard to correct his technical issues after the last series he looked the same as he did all summer. Had a massive effect on Johnson who had looked average but from then on became a bit inspired. Good captaincy by Clarke on the Carberry wicket, although Lyon had a hand in that wicket for me by creating doubt in the previous overs after he had looked assured until that point.

Bet the England dressing room is a great place to be during the tea interval.

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Post by msp83 Fri 22 Nov - 16:28

England got me confused there, they did an Australia, losing 6 for 9 in 10 overs. Just a little bit of recovery now between Tremlett, and the local hero Stuart Broad as England have moved along to 110-8.

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Post by Scratch Fri 22 Nov - 16:30

Nothing confusing about it.

England have fallen foul of their own hubris

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Post by msp83 Fri 22 Nov - 16:35

Didn't last long, Harris gets Tremlett. Anderson and Broad have now stretched the score to 116-9. Johnson still searching for that 5th wicket.

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Post by msp83 Fri 22 Nov - 17:03

England bowled out for 136, as Siddle gets Broad. That's a huge 159 run first innings lead for Australia. It was brilliant bowling from Johnson, Harris and Lyon, some good field placing from Michael Clarke, and some not so good batting from England. Australia can still collapse badly and let all the advantage fly away in a session, but right now they are in a dominant position in this test.

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Post by Scratch Fri 22 Nov - 17:07

159 lead with 3.5 days to play

Aus only need 250 to make it unwinnable

Any chance of rain?


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Post by msp83 Fri 22 Nov - 17:30

Australia have moved along to 24 without loss, England need wickets, and they need them soon.

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Post by Scratch Fri 22 Nov - 17:34

forget it, the game is lost

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Post by kingraf Fri 22 Nov - 17:54

four wickets to Johnson, eh? Can't say I didnt warn you lads with a tale from personal experience...
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 22 Nov - 17:56

Wtf England...
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Post by The Fourth Lion Fri 22 Nov - 18:00

msp83 wrote:England bowled out for 136, as Siddle gets Broad. That's a huge 159 run first innings lead for Australia. It was brilliant bowling from Johnson, Harris and Lyon, some good field placing from Michael Clarke, and some not so good batting from England. Australia can still collapse badly and let all the advantage fly away in a session, but right now they are in a dominant position in this test.

As understatements go, that's right up there with the best of 'em, MSP.

And I don't think it's going to rain for three days, either. Unless something Botham-esque happens (which is extremely unlikely), then the rest of this test is just going through the motions for the sake of formality.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 22 Nov - 18:12

We've made Lyon look like bloody saeed ajmal , how do you even lose six wickets for nine runs that's beyond pathetic
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Post by kingraf Fri 22 Nov - 18:27

I feel time is as important as runs scored for the Aussies. Essentially 215/0, but it's only day two. If England can get in by tea tomorrow, the target is probably 420-ish, but they'll have seven sessions on what still looks a good pitch. Australia need to still be batting come stumps day 3.
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Post by Guest Fri 22 Nov - 18:34

The Aussies have played well - Johnson & Harris bowling at 90 mph with accuracy.  They have worked out how to get Carberry out - it took Johnson three balls once he had changed tactics.  They have good plans to get all the main batsmen out now and they rough up the lower order with 90 mph short balls.  Could be more of the same in later matches if the Aussies can maintain the bowling threat.

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Post by Scratch Fri 22 Nov - 18:35

kingraf wrote:I feel time is as important as runs scored for the Aussies. Essentially 215/0, but it's only day two. If England can get in by tea tomorrow, the target is probably 420-ish, but they'll have seven sessions on what still looks a good pitch. Australia need to still be batting come stumps day 3.
England to get 420 in a 2nd innings having scored 130 odd in the first?

Aus will aim to bat until stumps Day 3 but by then i imagine they will have a 450 lead

On this track having been dismantled for 130 odd…..see if you can get odds on that and if so bet your pension


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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 22 Nov - 18:38

Well one thing this England can do is scrap, but this might be beyond time by this time tomorrow.

Inept, woeful, pathetic, there are no words strong enough to describe that batting performance today
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Post by Guest Fri 22 Nov - 18:43

It's going to be a good scrap for the Ashes on Aussie soil. Once the Aussies gain confidence, with the home support & home grounds they will start performing better.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 22 Nov - 19:01

I do wonder what happened. I dozed off on the sofa after 10 overs with England unbeaten and no alarms, resurfaced a bit to see England 70-odd for 2.

Next thing I know, we're 91/8! Shocked

Well done Australia. clap

How can you get bowled out for under 150 on this pitch? Dear oh dear. Test match virtually gone for England. Gulp.

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Post by msp83 Fri 22 Nov - 19:04

Australians have had few massive collapses in recent times, that was the only reason I put England's predicament in a rather understated way. But with the Australian openers giving them a pretty decent start in the 2nd time, England look pretty much down, and almost out of this one. If someone, Anderson, Broad, Tremlett or Swann induce a massive Australian collapse tomorrow and somehow manage to set a 350ish target, perhaps, perhaps they could think of what is unthinkable at this moment.

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Post by kingraf Fri 22 Nov - 19:22

Yeah this match is over as a contest. 70 more runs and England have to score the 300 4th innings!! Not looking too good. Johnson and Harris were superb, as was Lyon, who looks like the oldest 26-year old in history. This Australian innings is a big chance for some of their batsmen to lay down psychological markers.
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Post by VTR Fri 22 Nov - 19:23

We have lost this one. Want to see some fight in our second innings so we have something to take forward to the second Test and start again. What is wrong with Prior, how many ducks now since that match saving innings in NZ and being made player of the year, must be 4 or 5 at least.

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Post by Mike Selig Fri 22 Nov - 19:54

Blimey...

I went to bed when Haddin got out.

What happened? Purely from the scorecard it looks like pace was the issue. I thought yesterday the pitch had plenty of carry in it.

The test is not quite over for 2 reasons:
- any collapse which England did, Australia can do "better";
- the psychological factor: do Australia believe they can actually beat England? For this reason, it is not entirely inconceivable England chase down up to 450 IMO. Remember also this was the side who failed to bowl out South Africa at Adelaide last year, letting them survive a ridiculous number of overs. Not impossible that could happen again. However the pitch would have to slow up considerably (and not start turning) - Adelaide was slow as anything.

I still reckon Australia would like a lead of 500 to make absolutely sure.

Anyway it goes without saying that it was a tremendous day for Australia, and that some people (including on here) may have been a bit too quick to write them off.

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Post by Stella Fri 22 Nov - 20:20

What happened?

Good bowling, bad batting.

This game is all but over for England, unless the weather saves us. IMO, the Australians only need another 120. Cannot see us chasing 350ish.
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Post by JDizzle Fri 22 Nov - 20:31

I definitely believe we'll chase down 450 and above, easily obviously, but just in case we don't then it does give some thunderstorms for the next few days in Brisbane. Let the rain dancing commence...

Wonder if this influences Clarke's declaration? Because you have to lose to win, or something like that.

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Post by ChequeredJersey Fri 22 Nov - 21:09

Looks like I was wrong. Well done Aus
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Post by liverbnz Fri 22 Nov - 21:14

Fell asleep in 2013, woke up in 1997.

England had this match in their control and have contrived to end up in a horrible position within a matter of balls. Their 1st innings batting leaves a lot to be desired once more. Anywho, well played Oz.

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Post by Pal Joey Fri 22 Nov - 21:31

Thanks guys. It's an unusual position to be in for an Aussie fan.

Still a very long way to go in this Test match and the series.
There was some very positive and aggressive bowling today. They did their homework and the plan worked! It was a major psychological gain for Australia today. However, still 3 days to go.

Jimmy Anderson might like the overhead conditions tomorrow. A bit more cloud cover should suit him very well.

Our blokes just need to stay alert, be patient and try and build up a big a lead as possible. I'd be happy with a 350+ run lead (minimum) but to be more on the safe side I'd like to see them bat most of tomorrow and try and get it up towards a 450-500 run lead... at about 80-90 runs a session.
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Post by Biltong Fri 22 Nov - 21:37

Great day at the office for the Aussies.

Mitchell started poorly in his first few overs, but then must have been given the salts to smell as he then went on the rampage.
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Post by Pal Joey Fri 22 Nov - 21:39

He looked like some throwback to the 70s with that display of facial hair growth.
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Post by Scrumpy Fri 22 Nov - 21:40

Oh dear

1-0 to the Aussies.
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Post by Mike Selig Fri 22 Nov - 21:50

Just watched some brief highlights.

Cook got a good ball, it's the kind of ball he gets out to, but then it's the kind of ball most batsmen get out to.
Trott fell to the leg-side trap which will be a concern. The series may come down to who of him or Clarke best combats what are fairly obvious but at the moment highly effective plans to keep them quiet.
Pietersen's dismissal was particularly poor (unfortunately because I like him): hitting balls at catchable height is never a good idea, and like Warner it was to an ordinary delivery when well set. Even more unforgivably it was just as England looked like they were building a partnership.
Carberry gutsed it out nicely I thought, but had no answer to Johnson once he went round the wicket and attacked him.
Root played a loose shot to a ball going across him; beaten by the angle, but half-hearted drive - either play an actual drive or leave alone.
Bell and Prior were out to identical deliveries from Lyon from around the wicket, both beaten by a bit of extra turn and bounce; those were particularly disappointing dismissals for me, because they were nothing shots to decent but not fantastic balls. They are the kind of wickets you can't afford to lose - you need to make the bowlers earn wickets, and those wickets for me weren't particularly well earned; I'd rather the batsmen got out playing positively (Pietersen, then Broad obviously) than meekly like that.

To sum up:
- Pietersen played a poorly executed shot, and was a particularly disappointing dismissal in the circumstances;
- Root, Bell and Prior played nothing shots to not particularly menacing balls: those dismissals for me are the unforgivable ones;
- Cook, Carberry and Trott were out to good bowling and well-executed plans.

Australia bowled really aggressively. The pitch had good pace, and Johnson looked fast, but Harris hurried the batsmen as well with his fuller length. Lyon enjoyed the extra bounce, and I think may come even more into the game in the second innings.

Australia desperately need to win this game, to convince themselves they can beat this England side. It would also make the series much more interesting from a vaguely neutral perspective.

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Post by alfie Fri 22 Nov - 22:26

Indeed this (99% inevitable now) Australian win will make things more interesting for the neutrals...

Going to put a lot of pressure on the England boys though : in recent times they have been pretty good at bouncing back from heavy defeats ; but Australia is a tough place to come from behind . The Australians might well have been talking their chances up beforehand as much to convince themselves they had a chance as from any real confidence , but this will have them strutting around as if it were 1993 etc...

From looking at highlights I would generally agree with Mike about the dismissals. Trott worries me : long time since he has scored big ; and although Johnson had pressured him with the short ball the one he got out to could have surely been just let go - it was not that close to him. I reckon he would have been able to avoid touching that to the keeper a year or two back. But he has fallen that way several times
recently , and that , coupled with his failing to go on when he had made a start during the last home season , has me wondering if he has rather "lost it".
Trouble for England if he has , as there is no obvious replacement at three , and the big scores last time here were generally built on sound foundations laid by the top three.

Might be a good thing for England there is a short break and a tour match after this Test ...will at least give them a chance to mentally regroup.

Well done Australia today clap 

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Post by VTR Fri 22 Nov - 22:30

alfie wrote: Trott worries me : long time since he has scored big ; and although Johnson had pressured him with the short ball the one he got out to could have surely been just let go - it was not that close to him. I reckon he would have been able to avoid touching that to the keeper a year or two back. But he has fallen that way several times
recently , and that , coupled with his failing to go on when he had made a start during the last home season , has me wondering if he has rather "lost it".  
Have been wondering this myself. Is he in terminal decline? - he is of that age now where you can't rule it out. He was such a key player for us over 2-3 years but has mostly struggled for over a year now.

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Post by Gerry SA Fri 22 Nov - 23:05

VTR wrote:
alfie wrote: Trott worries me : long time since he has scored big ; and although Johnson had pressured him with the short ball the one he got out to could have surely been just let go - it was not that close to him. I reckon he would have been able to avoid touching that to the keeper a year or two back. But he has fallen that way several times
recently , and that , coupled with his failing to go on when he had made a start during the last home season , has me wondering if he has rather "lost it".  
Have been wondering this myself. Is he in terminal decline? - he is of that age now where you can't rule it out. He was such a key player for us over 2-3 years but has mostly struggled for over a year now.
Trott is many ways is similar to Graeme Smith(Smith's much better IMO). Both heavily favour the leg side. If you can bowl pitched up just outside off pole, they both become tied down.

Whereas Biff is a great player of fast/short bowling. Trott, back in his Boland days, was all ways very poor against the short stuff.

Trott's problems are compounded by the fact he's not a great driver through the off side due to his bat grip.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear Fri 22 Nov - 23:08

alfie wrote: Trott worries me : long time since he has scored big ; and although Johnson had pressured him with the short ball the one he got out to could have surely been just let go - it was not that close to him. I reckon he would have been able to avoid touching that to the keeper a year or two back. But he has fallen that way several times
recently , and that , coupled with his failing to go on when he had made a start during the last home season , has me wondering if he has rather "lost it".
Trouble for England if he has , as there is no obvious replacement at three , and the big scores last time here were generally built on sound foundations laid by the top three.

 
Bell or Root would be the obvious replacements, although I think we're some way away from that as yet.

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 22 Nov - 23:12

Hi Mike - I watched the first session live and have seen since seen a few highlights on SKY's Ashes Breakfast show.

Whilst accepting that no Test batsman ever chooses to get out, the timing of Trott's dismissal on the stroke of lunch was maddening. So similar to the day before when Watson fell. I do feel Trott's dismissal was very significant. It changed the complexion of that first session and meant Australia had edged it. Immediately before that, Trott and, especially, Carberry were looking calm and commanding. I suspect Trott's wicket gave Australia renewed confidence over lunch and possibly some put doubts in England minds. From what I gather, Carberry was never so in control when he returned.

I take your point about the actual balls that got Lyon his wickets and the poor shots. I would give some credit to the bowler though for appearing to keep things tight and applying pressure which were probably contributory factors, at least in Bell's dismissal (always hard to gauge the cumulative effect of a bowling spell from just highlights).

Root was badly at sea when dismissed by Johnson*. Knives may be out again for the young lad before too long if he doesn't up his game.

Great credit anyway to Johnson and all the Australian bowlers plus Clarke's captaincy. Very well supported in the field - all ten England wickets being caught, doesn't happen too often. When Australia do bowl again, they should not only be confident but very fresh. They only bowled 53 overs in England's innings - that equates to less than two sessions.

Very concerningly for England supporters, per SKY, the highest successful run chase in the history of Test cricket at The Gabba is 236. Realistically whatever target is faced by England, it's going to be a stiff one and some way north of that figure. In my view, the best we can hope for now is a draw. Even that is going to need a lot more resolution at the crease plus some intervention from the weather.

* Had to smile at this tweet highlighted by Cricinfo: 'Johnson is faster than Tremlett in slow motion.'


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Post by kingraf Fri 22 Nov - 23:13

Good point Gerry. I told Guildford this yesterday, South Africans who grow up at the coast are generally deficient against the short ball. Trott is a valid example of this. The rare exception is of course, KP, but unless the force is with him, he too is vulnerable to the bumper.
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Post by kingraf Fri 22 Nov - 23:14

Let's face facts - even if Australia collapse... say 50/10 tomorrow morning... England would still need 270 on a deck which would have seen three consecutive collapses. I can't see England winning barring a miracle of Beatific proportions, or an Australian collapse the likes of which hasn't been seen or heard of since, well Newlands 2011, where Australia went 21/9. Even a collapse similar to day one has Australia effectively 290/6.

I never did understand why Australia were so quickly written off, tbh. They nearly stole the first test in England, were cruising to victory until a magical Broad spell in the third Test, and had rain ruin the two Tests they were largely in control of. So while they lost 3-0 in England, it was generally very close, and with a bit of luck/fortitude, they could have gotten a result in England.

I'm looking forward to the second innings. Watson (and his big pad) will need to prove he can bat at three. Bailey needs to start making inroads quickly if he is to be captain by the end of the summer. Clarkes back makes him a bit of sitting duck for the short stuff, unfortunately, so he needs to show that he is a great enough batsman to reinvent himself, like Tendulkar did with his chronic tennis elbow. I've seen a few short videos showing him bowling a bit in the nets, so maybe the back is in better condition than previously thought? As good as Warner looks at the moment, my feeling is that Clarke's back, along with Mitchell's self-confidence are the biggest swing factors for Australia in the series.


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Post by Gerry SA Fri 22 Nov - 23:18

kingraf wrote:Good point Gerry. I told Guildford this yesterday, South Africans who grow up at the coast are generally deficient against the short ball. Trott is a valid example of this. The rare exception is of course, KP, but unless the force is with him, he too is vulnerable to the bumper.
Totally correct KR.

Even looking at current SA batsmen. Duminy is clueless against fast short pitched bowling.

Whilst KP is ok against the short stuff. Pulling off the front foot has got him into trouble in the past.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear Fri 22 Nov - 23:24

I think it's pretty much nailed on 1-0 to Australia, so where does that leave England?
They have not, in recent times, been prone to knee-jerk reactions with regard to selection and have a reasonable record of recovering from defeat, but their batting record in the last year has been IIRC, mediocre at best.
So should they shuffle the pack? Should Trott get another go in the next test? What about Prior?
Of course, they could bat magnificently in the second innings, but is that too little too late?

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