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India in South Africa 2013

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Post by msp83 Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:24 am

First topic message reminder :

The BCCI have picked the test squad for South Africa well in advance, so the debates can also start well in time.

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Post by Guest Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:56 pm

JP's gone for 28

everyone talks about Mclaren etc coming on for Du Plessisbut Duminy hasn't scored runs for a while even before his injury...only averages 33 in test cricket, and Du P has scored runs early in his career and averages 62..double JP..... something to think about.

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Post by Gerry SA Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:56 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Bet India are glad they came now. Even if they lose this they should go with credit. SA are easily the best side in the world.
Sounds like a very good contest between bat and ball and two teams as well, good advert for the game and a reminder to those who prepare wickets.
The difference between the sides in this match is Dale Steyn. Nothing else.

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Post by Gerry SA Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:58 pm

Time for JP Duminy to be axed.

He can't play any type of spin bowling. He's pretty hopeless against the swinging ball as well.

Duminy out, McLaren in.

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Post by Gerry SA Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:58 pm

Proteas must be happy that Ashwin is carrying the water rather than bowling in tandem with Jadeja.

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Post by Guest Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:01 pm

McLaren at 7 with Faf at 6 Gerry?

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Post by Gerry SA Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:06 pm

CF wrote:McLaren at 7 with Faf at 6 Gerry?
I'd rather Faf moves up to 4 mate. AB stays at 5.

McLaren 7

Maybe Elgar/de Kock at 6

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Post by kingraf Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:35 pm

Yeah, a draw looms large over Kingsmead. So on to talks of the future. For me, the biggest question is does Abbas want to bat at four? If he answers "yes", then he has to drop the gloves. Who keeps wicket if he drops the gloves? Well its probably a pick-em between Tsolekile and Vilas. There's a fifteen run chasm in their averages, but their almost equal over the last three years or so, and Tsolekile is widely accepted to be the best 'keeper in the country. In Vilas' credit, is the fact that he is four years younger. QdK doesn't even keep at four day level, so he can't take up the gloves, yet anyway.

If Abbas does stay at five and keeps the gloves, then there are big decisions to make. Do you move DuP to four? What of JP? I think DuP is to good a player to be down at seven, and he already has a ton at four. As for JP, I feel he's selection is a net gain, for the team. He brings a lot of overs with the ball, and is a very good batsman. For me, McLaren needs to stay as far away from the Test team as humanly possible, especially if he is being picked to bat Seven! a domestic average of 30 does not a seven make. If we are going to pick an all-rounder at seven, I'd go with Chris Morris, or even Robin Peterson before R-Mac
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Post by msp83 Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:59 pm

Another good contest, but yet again the damn weather had to intervene just as India were slowly getting back into the game.
Fine hand from Jacques Kallis in his final test, battled a tricky situation let AB play his normal game by keeping an end absolutely safe. A hundred beckons tomorrow. India need to get him and the rest of the South Africans quickly. AB said SA are looking at a lead of around 100. If they manage to go thus far, Dale Steyn, back to his glorious best could ones again be lethal. Hopefully the bowlers will be able to restrict SA to under 370-380, and then the batsmen can show the determination and application that have characterized most of their tour so far.

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Post by msp83 Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:04 pm

Very happy to see Ravindra Jadeja performing with the ball. His pace and lower trajectory combined with the bounce and natural variations available made him quite handy on this track and he bowled with a lot of heart and lot of discipline.

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Post by KP_fan Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:36 pm

Gerry SA wrote:
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Bet India are glad they came now. Even if they lose this they should go with credit. SA are easily the best side in the world.
Sounds like a very good contest between bat and ball and two teams as well, good advert for the game and a reminder to those who prepare wickets.
The difference between the sides in this match is Dale Steyn. Nothing else.

that so true
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Post by KP_fan Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:41 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Jadeja is an interesting man, from the outside, one would think having a #8 with a first class average of 50 is a huge bonus, but he is yet to show me that he is in fact a batsman, or at least a bowler who can bat. It is my understanding that he's Batting is the reason he got the nod over Ohja in the touring party, but I'm not sure he actually offers that much more than the Big O

Jadeja is indeed interesting.

He is in because he is India's first choice SLA and India's deemed No.2 spinner after Ashwin...and if he makes a mark here...he might become India's No.1 spinner overseas.

He started in ODIs as a batsman who could be the 5th bowler...and came into tests as the 6th batsman cum 5th bowler...but very very quickly they found he is a far more potent than a mere 5th bowler.
He has nip off the pitch and guile which makes him more dangerous than the other spinners in India.

He batting average in FC is slightly inflated beyond his potential because his home ground is the flat Rajkot pitch...and he has 3 triple hundreds in Ranji....

He is not going to be an averaging 45+ batsman in tests
but if he establishes his primary role as a spinner and assured of a place in side.....his batting will blossom at the international level eventually....and he will be over a period of time an averaging 35+ batsman.

The upside that Jadeja offers is HUGE

I told ya.....the UPSIDEof Jadeja is huge.

This man Jadeja has not even contributed with the bat yet..,....and yet made mark for himself.
as he settles and feels assured....his batting will also come good in test cricket.

His bowling reminds me of what I have heard of Vinoo Mankad's bowling.....
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Post by KP_fan Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:42 pm

when i review the game from and Indian POV....and if full overs are bowled on two remaining days......defeat lookes the likeliest option for India.

UNLESS
they show resolve one more time with the bat and bat out 100 odd overs...then a draw is secured.
win from here for India is almost getting into the realms of magic
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Post by kingraf Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:49 pm

fair enough with Jadeja. Put in a shift, and I can't critique him at all.
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Post by Gerry SA Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:02 am

kingraf wrote:Yeah, a draw looms large over Kingsmead. So on to talks of the future. For me, the biggest question is does Abbas want to bat at four? If he answers "yes", then he has to drop the gloves. Who keeps wicket if he drops the gloves? Well its probably a pick-em between Tsolekile and Vilas. There's a fifteen run chasm in their averages, but their almost equal over the last three years or so, and Tsolekile is widely accepted to be the best 'keeper in the country. In Vilas' credit, is the fact that he is four years younger. QdK doesn't even keep at four day level, so he can't take up the gloves, yet anyway.

If Abbas does stay at five and keeps the gloves, then there are big decisions to make. Do you move DuP to four? What of JP? I think DuP is to good a player to be down at seven, and he already has a ton at four. As for JP, I feel he's selection is a net gain, for the team. He brings a lot of overs with the ball, and is a very good batsman. For me, McLaren needs to stay as far away from the Test team as humanly possible, especially if he is being picked to bat Seven! a domestic average of 30 does not a seven make. If we are going to pick an all-rounder at seven, I'd go with Chris Morris, or even Robin Peterson before R-Mac
I think you're being pretty harsh on Ryan McLaren TBH. 

If he's batting at 7, with Philander at 8 and Robbie Peterson at 9 that's a pretty strong 7/8/9. 

McLaren bowling FC average 25. Lower than Kleinveldt, de Lange etc so he's more than worthy a second Test cap.

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Post by kingraf Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:21 am

I've made my reservations about Kleinveldt known last season. I lack the energy to mock his physique, pace, lack of movement, or lack of swing at 3 a.m all over again!!!

I don't think I'm that harsh on McLaren, more that he's 4-day game hasn't exactly set the world alight for a while, and there are guys who are younger than him with a bigger scope for improvement who could do the job you're envisioning. I just feel we need a batsman at seven, if he can bowl, great, but he needs to be a batter, first and foremost.
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Post by Biltong Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:09 am

We used to have Kallis as a batting allrounder and Pollock as a bowling allrounder.

Between them they would provide you with 88 runs per innings and 3 wickets per innings.

Who is going to provide us with that now?

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Post by msp83 Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:31 am

South Africa into the lead. Seems like a very difficult time is going to be up on the Indian batsmen later in the day.

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Post by msp83 Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:34 am

Hundred for Jacques Kallis in his farewell test!.
Well done Legend!.
SA 342-5. Dale Steyn going strong as well, should make him more confident when he taks that ball later. Things not looking good for India, Not at all!.

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Post by Pal Joey Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:36 am

Well done Jacques! Ton No.45 in his 166th and final Test match.  clap
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Post by Biltong Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:53 am

Love this innings from Steyn, edges, swings, drives, but he is still going.
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Post by Biltong Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:12 am

It is pretty clear Dhoni is not going to take the hew ball, trying to hit the old ball (128overs old) is like trying to hit mud.

Nothing is happening.
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Post by msp83 Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:30 am

SA 381-5. Kallis is going strong on 113, and Dale Steyn has stroked, slogged, edged, got beaten every now and then his way to 42. Dhoni is stubbornly refusing to take the new ball. The new ball might travel more when well hit, but it might also give them a wicket or 2 quickly.

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Post by kingraf Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:31 am

Got to try get the lead to 100, and then hope Steyn bottles lightning again and sparks a mini-collapse
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Post by alfie Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:32 am

Well I got one wish granted today  Smile 

Kallis hundred  clap 

Mustn't be greedy...

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Post by KP_fan Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:33 am

Jadeja gets a 5-for
Kallis the great man....goes out in a fitting manner..with a hundred  clap 
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Post by kingraf Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:34 am

Kallis gone for 115 - his hamstring seemed to really cease up, so going the aerial route was understandable. Fantastic knock from a fantastic player. Fifer for Jadeja, well bowled.
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Post by KP_fan Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:35 am

kingraf wrote:Got to try get the lead to 100, and then hope Steyn bottles lightning again and sparks a mini-collapse

the pitch has no demons...and only an electric fast....fast bowler can do something amazing.

India needs to bat 100 overs to save the game....is how I saw it yesterday and is how it stands even now.

Dhwan has to stand up and be counted.....he has gone in with a great reputation and high expectations.......did get a start in first innings....needs a hundred now
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Post by Biltong Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:46 am

Can't see even Steyn or Morkel getting much from this pitch later today or tomorrow, this is going to be a draw
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Post by KP_fan Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:49 am

one wicket goes and then the second one....
Dhoni was counting on SA going for shots and quick runs..

and that's where the old soft seamless pulp they are bowling with.......will be impossible to hit...and will produce wickets.
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Post by KP_fan Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:05 am

India bowled 36 overs.......and SA could get only 95 runs.......for the No.1 team in their our territory trying to force a win that is not fast enough.

Dhoni's old ball tactics has had a role to play.....but SA should show more initiative from here
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Post by Biltong Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:13 am

I doubt Smith would tell his charges to go hell for leather until they ate at least 100 runs ahed, if at all possible he would not want to bat again. If they have to bat again the chances are it will end in a draw anyway.

Conditions and ball are not conducive to quick scoring, it is as simple as that.

Dhoni will be totally chuffed if India walks away from this series with two draws.

Hence his tactics, and the weather aren't exactly helping.

SA attained the number one ranking by knowing when to put doen the throttle and when not to lose a series.

Might be boring for some, but it has mean't one series loss in the last 6 years and a win loss ration close to 3 to 1
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Post by msp83 Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:16 am

In the context of the game, I'd call that India's session. The weather is slated to come in again and indulge in its favorite pastime of playing spoilsport at some point, and so SA needed to lift that lead more quickly. They leed by 61, need to push it to 120-130 quickly, and then hope Steyn will be able to produce a special performance from a track that doesn't have a lot for the bowlers. But the problem for India is that Steyn is more than capable of producing just that, as he showed in the first innings here, as he showed in Nagpur a few years ago.......

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Post by kingraf Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:20 am

so everyone is in agreement, then? Only a glorious performance from Steyn (or Philander - although the fact that he's not getting seam means unlikely) is going to produce a result.
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Post by msp83 Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:02 am

Rain in the air, Robin Peterson with a few strokes, MSD sticking to that old cherry.
South Africa 408-7.

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Post by msp83 Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:09 am

Robin Peterson is showingsome really intent, 4 boundaries for him after lunch, SA 423-7.

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Post by Biltong Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:22 am

He never lasts long, but that is what is necssary now
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Post by Biltong Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:23 am

At last the new ball is taken, the old one has split
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Post by msp83 Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:24 am

Breaking news!. Mahendra Singh Dhoni has called for the new ball!!!.

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Post by Biltong Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:27 am

Petersen lucky to survive an LBW appeal, to add insult to injury it goes for four byes and the next one goes for four as well
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Post by kingraf Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:27 am

I think the umpires "advised" him to take the new ball, MSP
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Post by msp83 Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:28 am

Robin Peterson is on the carge. He just survived a very very close LBW shout of Shami with the new ball and the ball ran away for 4, and he smashed the next one away for 4 as well. SA 443-7.

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Post by msp83 Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:30 am

kingraf wrote:I think the umpires "advised" him to take the new ball, MSP
Do the regulations allow them to do that? They can replace the ball if it is out of shape, but can't replace it with a new one?

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Post by Biltong Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:33 am

The commentary team just confirmed the law states if the ball is changed after 110 overs it must be with a new ball
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Post by msp83 Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:35 am

South Africa 450-7. Another 55 overs scheduled for the day, when will Smith declare?

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Post by msp83 Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:37 am

Biltong wrote:The commentary team just confirmed the law states if the ball is changed after 110 overs it must be with a new ball
Thanks, biltong.

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Post by KP_fan Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:43 am

it's been a mistake taking the new ball
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Post by kingraf Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:43 am

so... do you give Faf or Abbas the #4 slot?
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Post by Biltong Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:44 am

Leave AB at 5
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Post by KP_fan Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:49 am

with the momentum swinging...India is now favourites to lose this game.

I can almost see visuals of a 50-4 scoreline soon...India's resistance has crumbled
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Post by kingraf Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:55 am

fifty for Robbie P - if he gets some second innings wickets, he could become a legitimate option at #7, as he's output with ball and bat is roughly the same as JP's this year.
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