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Mixed Messages Fuel The Aussies

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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu 28 Nov 2013, 8:16 am

If there is one area I would criticise the England management it is their confused messages they are churning out. Andy Flowers has been in the media since the First Test and where I believe it has been chiefly to moan about Warner's sledging in the media the Australian players are feeding on it. Likewise, Cook did the same but that was a little bit clearer a pop at Warner.

Since then Mitchell Johnson has gleefully taken this as them rattling England players with their sledging which I belueve is just not true but looks that way because of the way England management have handled the matter. I don't believe for one milli-second that on-field sledging bothers England players one jot. Stuart Broad himself said they can deal with it and it doesn't bother him and is no worse than is usually heard. Also Jimmy Anderson can clearly be seen smiling through the sledging even when tgreatened with broken arm.

It is clear the England players can take and give sledging and is no big deal for them but the way the England management have handled this has handed a psychological boost to the Aussie players without cause.
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Post by Stella Thu 28 Nov 2013, 8:37 am

Not sure how it can be perceived as a psychological boost?
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Post by kingraf Thu 28 Nov 2013, 8:55 am

It's all psychological isnt it? It's the same reason athletes always play in the same underwear.... if the Aussies believe it's working, it starts working, regardless of whether its what works or not. Using the "underwear" analogy, England have basically told CA, "you're choice of underwear doesn't bother us, but can we have a meeting to discuss how often you wear it, even if we don't believe it works'
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 28 Nov 2013, 9:44 am

It is a psychological boost because after shelling out plenty of crap over the last few years It seems as soon as they take it......Flower seems to want to talk!!

Probably making the aussies think England are precious.......

Which they aren't!!!..............

Never complain...........Never explain..........Mr Flower just ignore sledging questions.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu 28 Nov 2013, 9:46 am

It is a psychological boost to the Australian players as they believe England players are rattled by sledging so boosts them psychologically. This is all stems from the confused messages sent out by England management. If you look at the England players the sledging is water off a duck's back but the Aussies players are being fed different messages.
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Post by trebellbobaggins Thu 28 Nov 2013, 10:02 am

How quickly does Johnson become a cocky piece of work.



yes he's better now but he's crawled up his own arse far too quickly.

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Post by Born Slippy Thu 28 Nov 2013, 10:17 am

It does seem like the ICC should start clamping down hard on sledging. Both Australia and England's position on this is deplorable. It shouldn't be seen as in any way acceptable for an Australian captain to be sledging in the way Clarke did. One can only imagine the furore that would be generated if an England football captain was caught saying to an opponent that one of his team was going to break their legs and cricket should be better than that.

The message that should have been sent out was that Clarke would be banned if he or any of his team were heard by an umpire or stump mic making similar comments in future. Same goes for the England captain. Problem solved and we can get back to the question of which team is actually better at cricket.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 28 Nov 2013, 10:20 am

It's laughable If you think that kind of sledge is new to the game and Anderson hasn't used it or one just as bad.........especially when Australia have been under the kosh..

All these things are deplorable when England are getting it........

Leave it out.........

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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu 28 Nov 2013, 10:27 am

Sledging on the pitch is fine - it is part and parcel of Test cricket. Let us remember it isn't down to the England players that Clarke's comments came to light - blame the Channel Nine microphone and media for bringing it to the fore.
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Post by VTR Thu 28 Nov 2013, 10:54 am

trebellbobaggins wrote:How quickly does Johnson become a cocky piece of work.



yes he's better now but he's crawled up his own arse far too quickly.
Agreed, one good Test and he is full of himself. Surely he realises the next Test he could spray it around as that has been the story of his career: one good Test, several mediocre ones. If he has a bad Test he is going to look pretty stupid.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 28 Nov 2013, 11:06 am

Why shouldn't he enjoy the moment and be proud............Life is about enjoying the good times...

let tomorrow look after itself.............Sour grapes me thinks!!

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Post by KP_fan Thu 28 Nov 2013, 11:14 am

Flower has acted strangely naive.....he has exposed and pointed out his raw nerve.....and so the Aussies will Tinkywinky it now

They may have assigned a few "script writers" to innovate Trott jokes and sledges to be hurled at English on the field
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Post by kingraf Thu 28 Nov 2013, 11:25 am

I'd criticize a lot of of players for doing what Johnson is doing, but given how the barmy treated him (he actually sought professional help), I quite like this turnabout.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 28 Nov 2013, 11:26 am

Would anybody be surprised If the churp is "Who is following Trotty home" at Adelaide especially from a little ginger scamp who opens the Batting..

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 28 Nov 2013, 11:29 am

Kingy.........If Anderson had said the arm stuff to Lyon and England won.............People would be writing "ha ha that's just Jimmy" on here......

Sour grapes...

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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu 28 Nov 2013, 11:37 am

I don't see anyone on here beefing about sledging do you TRUSSMAN? Anderson laughed it off and Broad himself said he has known worse so not sure where you are seeing sour grapes? Lest we forget it was the Aussie Channel Nine that brought this whole thing to air.
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Post by kingraf Thu 28 Nov 2013, 11:41 am

If there was one bowler I would entrust with breaking an arm... it sure as hell wouldn't be Johnson... Just as likely to angle it into second slip as he is to find an arm
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Post by Born Slippy Thu 28 Nov 2013, 11:55 am

I've no doubt worse sledging has gone on in the past and I think I made it clear that both England and Australia have adopted positions which should be untenable in professional sport. This was a prime opportunity for an unpleasant side of cricket to be dealt with.

Can someone give me one good reason why sledging should be allowed? Cricket is a sport where the best exponents of sporting skills should succeed. It is not psychological warfare.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 28 Nov 2013, 11:58 am

Because It's part of the game and always has been.........The mental stuff........

People churp in football, Baseball, Boxing and just about any other sport on the planet....to gain an edge......

It's laughably easy all you do is watch the ball and play it.......

Let them waste their breath......


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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu 28 Nov 2013, 12:04 pm

Cricket, Test match format especially, is like many sports in that psychological games are often played and one of those is sledging. Much of it is just silly mind games to try to prize out a wicket by unsettling the opponent. In general it is all forgotten aftwrwards and players can be sociable after the match. It is akin to a defender getting a beefy challenge in early on in a match on the opposing side's key player - letting him know you are there and up for the challenge in a bid to intimidate them.


Last edited by CaledonianCraig on Thu 28 Nov 2013, 12:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by kingraf Thu 28 Nov 2013, 12:05 pm

anyone remember the Steve Waugh innings where Atherton decided sledging Waugh probably only motivated him, and the entire kept their mouths shut for Steve's entire innings? Steve's retort was something along the lines of, "oh I get it, no one is talking to Steve? I'll talk to myself then", spoke to himself for four hours en route to a hundred. Atherton then decided to revert to to type second innings and sledge Waugh... Waugh scored a hundred again. I've never actually seen the match, but it sounds magnificent.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 28 Nov 2013, 12:14 pm

Funny thing about Trott.........

Scored 80 and 50 in the warm up games..........Gets blown away twice in the test...called weak, soft and whatever..........

and he's packing his bags.......

All seems very sudden.........

Suppose If we are honest he is a mercenary so individual performance probably affects him more than the others who are rightfully proud of representing their country..

For some reasons a lot of mental issues in sport seem performance related.......

Never see many people with depression coming home after scoring hundreds...

Not to say Trott isn't suffering from an illness but the timing is strange considering it didn't affect him scoring runs before the test match.........


Last edited by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 28 Nov 2013, 12:15 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : ..)

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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu 28 Nov 2013, 12:17 pm

Post that on Trott topics please (there are two) so that this can stay on topic. Thanks.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 28 Nov 2013, 12:19 pm

Ooh Someone is sensitive.....


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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 28 Nov 2013, 12:22 pm

kingraf wrote:I'd criticize a lot of of players for doing what Johnson is doing, but given how the barmy treated him (he actually sought professional help), I quite like this turnabout.
Sour grapes.........It's an issue because England are losing...

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Post by seanmichaels Thu 28 Nov 2013, 12:39 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:If there is one area I would criticise the England management it is their confused messages they are churning out. Andy Flowers has been in the media since the First Test and where I believe it has been chiefly to moan about Warner's sledging in the media the Australian players are feeding on it. Likewise, Cook did the same but that was a little bit clearer a pop at Warner.

Since then Mitchell Johnson has gleefully taken this as them rattling England players with their sledging which I belueve is just not true but looks that way because of the way England management have handled the matter. I don't believe for one milli-second that on-field sledging bothers England players one jot. Stuart Broad himself said they can deal with it and it doesn't bother him and is no worse than is usually heard. Also Jimmy Anderson can clearly be seen smiling through the sledging even when tgreatened with broken arm.

It is clear the England players can take and give sledging and is no big deal for them but the way the England management have handled this has handed a psychological boost to the Aussie players without cause.
I think you have the wrong end of the stick. Cook and the England management quite rightly criticised Warner for comments made to the media in a press conference. They have not once been critical of on field sledging.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu 28 Nov 2013, 12:50 pm

No not me sean. Flowers has been in the media asking for meetings with regards conduct. We now have Johnson wetting himself with glee at the thought that the Aussies sledging has had an effect which I think is way wide of the mark. I think I am right in saying Flowers came out about players conduct but did not clearly enough specify that he was singly talking about Warner.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu 28 Nov 2013, 12:54 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Ooh Someone is sensitive.....

Not at all. We already have two topics on the Trott issue without turning this into another one. Problem?
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Post by kingraf Thu 28 Nov 2013, 1:04 pm

Funny thing sledging. It's effect doesn't lie in being insulting, but simply putting a thought in the batsmans mind. It doesn't really matter whether you tell Kallis his mom is whor.e, or that he has a questionable technique... he is impervious to any external influence while he is batting. In the same vein, its probably better to play on KP's ego than it is to downright be nasty to him. A few years ago my school was facing a rival school, and their #3 was the reigning S.A. u/17 player of the year. Instead of insulting him about his mom, or threatening to break his arm, we played on his ego... He had scored about 16 off as many balls when I (standing under the helmet) quietly enquired why the best school cricketer in the country cant score faster on such a small outfield... he was out three balls later caught at long on. Sledging is in reality an art which is performed by artisans. A team doesn't go from 81/2 to 90/8 because they were told they cant handle hostile bowling, they go from 81/2 to 90/8 because they can't handle hostile bowling...

Think boxing - if Mike Tyson told you he was going to knock you out then eat your ear and run off with your wife, that sticks because its a very real reality, if David Haye tells you the same thing... The effect of sledging isn't in the threat, but rather how realistic the threat is.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 28 Nov 2013, 3:49 pm

That's right careers are at stake and If you think telling a batsman he's a bottler is going to help get his wicket and help retain your place...You will..........and why not !!

Still think It's strange Trotty felt he could score well in the preamble.......and then all of a sudden gets stressed just after he's been carped about for lacking bottle ......and looking clueless in the test........

Two are related I'm sure........Pre-existiong condition or not.

No mixed message from the Aussies though..........Why change a winning formula..

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Post by msp83 Thu 28 Nov 2013, 8:41 pm

kingraf wrote:If there was one bowler I would entrust with breaking an arm... it sure as hell wouldn't be Johnson... Just as likely to angle it into second slip as he is to find an arm
Mitchell Johnson broke Graeme Smith's fingers twice and send Big Jacques too to the hospital didn't he?

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Post by msp83 Thu 28 Nov 2013, 8:46 pm

If people sledge, they've to take what comes back their way. Remember Glenn McGrath losing it quite a bit against Ramnaresh Sarwan. What Sarwan suggested hit McGrath hard in the given circumstances, but harsh though it was, McGrath had it coming. The Indians used to take a lot of the nonsense earlier, but it is under Ganguly that thinks started changing. Give one bit more than what you get if they decide to get ugly and stop morning about.

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Post by msp83 Thu 28 Nov 2013, 8:47 pm

Would like the game without all these nonsense of mental disintegration crap, there could be cricketing banter, but never get too personal. But what is actually happening is far from that ideal state, so just give more than you get.

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Post by msp83 Thu 28 Nov 2013, 8:51 pm

King Brian Charles of Trinidad thrived big on sledging from the opposition. Steve Waugh has in fact noted that with Lara, he would in fact provide some initial spark that would provoke a sledge from the opposition, and then that would be enough to fuel the fire in the champion and he'd then go on a rampage. Waugh had instructed his players not to sledge Lara too much.

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Post by kingraf Thu 28 Nov 2013, 9:08 pm

Graemes hands Havre since proven to be fine China, not much of an achievement.
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Post by msp83 Thu 28 Nov 2013, 9:50 pm

kingraf wrote:Graemes hands Havre since proven to be fine China, not much of an achievement.
That is the making of it as an achievement. Indeed Captain colossal is quite a favorite of mine, and I had truly hated Johnson when he did it.

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Post by GloriousEmpire Wed 04 Dec 2013, 2:24 pm

To have Cook come out and essentially blink first, back down from the sledging he said was all part of the game, looks very much like the Aussies have won a moral victory and England are running scared.

If I was the Aussies I'd crank it up from the first ball.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Wed 04 Dec 2013, 4:05 pm

This is the mixed message I was talking of. The Aussie press are jumping aboard a false bandwagon and gloating about sledging upsetting England players
WRONG. The upset was not of on pitch sledging as Jimmy Anderson smiled through the incident and has since said he has heard and given worse in the past. Likewise Broad has been in the press saying it wasn't too bad at all and he can live with it. The sledging that got under England management's skin was Warner's public sledging of an individual mid-match to the media. Warner has since realised this was wrong and ex- skipper Steve Waugh has since said the same saying he crossed the line of decency. England's management were irked by Warner's action and that alone in my opinion and nothing would have come of the on-pitch sledging if Channel Nine's microphone and then the press hadn't referred to it. It is unfortunate though as the Aussies are man sausage-a-hoop believing their sledging was some massive success when it wasn't.
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Post by msp83 Wed 04 Dec 2013, 5:54 pm

Ideas like crossing the line of decency is relative and culturally determined in parts. So if you dish it out, take whatever comes your way. Don't try taking the moral high-ground when you are under the pump. This is not particularly about England, its about any side. I don't think sledging is that much fun really, I would any day prefer a fast bowler charging in and letting rip a well-directed bouncer rather than he abusing the batsman's wife and mother. But if that's the way you want to play it, don't come up with lines and stuff, give it and take it and shut up.

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Post by msp83 Wed 04 Dec 2013, 6:19 pm

Never liked the Steve Waugh School of Thought and all that garbage about 'Mental Disintegration'. But England haven't been stingy in offering some of the similar stuff on the field, the Australians have taken it to their old level that's all. To appear to suggest that this is getting to them, England aren't helping their cause. Just give it back better than what you get, that's the only way to deal with these Australians.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Wed 04 Dec 2013, 6:34 pm

msp83 wrote:Ideas like crossing the line of decency is relative and culturally determined in parts. So if you dish it out, take whatever comes your way. Don't try taking the moral high-ground when you are under the pump. This is not particularly about England, its about any side. I don't think sledging is that much fun really, I would any day prefer a fast bowler charging in and letting rip a well-directed bouncer rather than he abusing the batsman's wife and mother. But if that's the way you want to play it, don't come up with lines and stuff, give it and take it and shut up.
You are mistaken. I have not seen ANY England player moan about on-field sledging in Brisbane. The real angst from the management only was Warner's comments to the media and that does NOT qualify as on-field sledging. He now knows and admits it was wrong and even one of the most-respected fellow Aussies Steve Waugh says it was crossing the line of decency.
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Post by msp83 Wed 04 Dec 2013, 8:22 pm

For me abusing someone who is not on the field in the name of mental disintegration is total garbage and has nothing whatsoever to do with anything or anyone decent. Perhaps a sarcastic comment on the cricket being played could be fun, but not the other garbage. But if you give it, you take it as well. A lot of the stuff said on the cricket field, could invite serious trouble on the street or any other workplace for that matter. So no point mourning about it, don't convert convenience into decency. The kind of stuff you would get kicked for in any other location, you get away with it on a cricket field. It is an indecent act, just that you get away with it doesn't make it anything else. What Warner said was just a comment on a dismissal and nothing else, he didn't abuse anyones family members or engaged in indecent name calling, Perhaps Warner could and should have refrained from that comment, but there is no point whatsoever in getting too worked up about it.
And if you haven't seen it already, have a look at this article. http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/696065.html

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