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2nd test Adelaide

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Post by KP_fan Fri 29 Nov 2013, 2:54 am

First topic message reminder :

all the reprots coming out indicate that this will be a "typical English pitch "
batting friendly, dry, offering reverse and a lot of turn in 2nd inning Alan Border thinks.
 
that wouldn't be what Aus would have liked..and would like to alter whatever bit they can in the end......althouhg I understand it is harder to alter a drop in pitch.
 
Teams:
 
I would like to make a fairly early call on what the team changes might be....not based on what I would like to see but rather..reading into the mind  of the two coaches.
 
--Eng might  bring in Stokes and Bresnan for Trott and Tremlett.
Bresnan is a favorite of Flower mentality.......a batsman and a bowler packed into one.....how much he can hold against the Aussie pace as a batter will be tested....bowling....well he picked 4-fer in some junior game yesterday...in the best of times he struggles to be consistently above 132kph and now coming back from injury...dunno how how fast he can be but certainly can't do worse than Tremlett's 122kph.
 
Stokes I know not much about other than career stats on CI....but he might be picked on the rationale that he is not much less of a batsman than Ballance and Bairstow and can bowl also...spreading the workload over 5 bowlers and cushioning the undercooked Bresnan.
 
--Aus might bring in Faulkner for Bailey.....as he can reverse the ball, was in no less a blistering form with the bat in India then Bailey.....and is a proper brisk fast medium bowler who will cushion the work-load on their genuine pacers preserving them for rocket fast WACA the next test.
This is where Watson's inability to bowl 15 overs a day is putting more pressure on him.....and should Faulkner have a good game and Watson not......he is at risk of being edged out....not immediately but sooner than later.


Last edited by KP_fan on Fri 29 Nov 2013, 3:01 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by mystiroakey Sun 08 Dec 2013, 5:47 pm

We wont have bresnan and stokes.

With stokes as an all rounder we can have a finn or a monty in the side..

Finn is our quickest bowler. The Aussies are setting up tracks to help pace- We cant ignore that.


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Post by Stella Sun 08 Dec 2013, 5:53 pm

IF Stokes plays? Ballance may get a chance. They went left field for thos test. They might revert to type.
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Post by mystiroakey Sun 08 Dec 2013, 5:55 pm

thats not a bad option .

I would feel pretty happy about a batting line up including stokes and ballance.

Root can bowl a few.


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Post by Stella Sun 08 Dec 2013, 6:03 pm

I meant drop Stokes, for Ballance, and bring in Bresnan for Monty. Back to basics if you like. I'm tired of second guessing the selectors, though.

I would have Finn for Monty.
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Post by kingraf Sun 08 Dec 2013, 6:22 pm

Here's the issue with the English team -
Monty for Finn - fair enough, but why Monty? Swann has been as effective as a blunt knife in a gunfight. I understand the logic in picking Finn, but Swann has been incredibly poor. To the point where there is no empirical reason for him being the one who doesn't get dropped.

Scoring big - I was told in the last Test that the fact England hasn't scored 400 in ten tests was an interesting stat, but it was too early to say that there is a crisis (if you look in the fourth Test Thread played in England, I had mentioned this as well) or that 400 is merely a random landmark which didn't actually mean anything. I suppose being 2-0 down (weather permitting)

KP at four - I've said this tons of times, but KP is a player who wins you games but never series'. He is simply too inconsistent, and while a successful team can carry him, I don't think that there are too many teams in history that carried enigmatic players while being chronically unable to score big scores. When debts get high, you don't cancel your life insurance (Bell), or the family van (Cook), you sell the Ferrari.

JA - Steyn comparisons aside, I've never been sold on Jimmy, at least not as a front line bowler. He seems to have lost the ability to take wickets, and I wouldn't bet on his 135kmh missiles helping him out on a pitch which offers help for real pace, but not much for those who rely on "talent", or "skill" (the right conditions, really)
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Post by Stella Sun 08 Dec 2013, 6:32 pm

Drop Pietersen? Who for? It's ok selling the Ferrari but not when you need to do it's job with a Lada.
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Post by kingraf Sun 08 Dec 2013, 6:37 pm

Dropping KP isn't an option, of course. But when your team can't consistently score big, he becomes a very expensive luxury.
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Post by amanuensis Sun 08 Dec 2013, 7:07 pm

kingraf wrote:Dropping KP isn't an option, of course. But when your team can't consistently score big, he becomes a very expensive luxury.
So what's your solution?

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Post by kingraf Sun 08 Dec 2013, 7:24 pm

As Stella will know from any thread which list a greatest ever, I don't offer solutions, merely ask the tough questions
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Post by msp83 Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:06 pm

A better effort from England. But It looks like too little, too late at the moment unless the weather has a considerable say. Good knock from Root, good to see KP getting some runs and showing some good restraint and young Stokes has played a decent innings that shows promise though not a substantive one , but it seems he has taken advice from Shane Watson on putting that front pad as the object of target practice for the bowlers!. Matt Prior has stopped looking like Chris Martin, and Stuart Broad wasn't going to hang around. Hopefully Prior and Broad can stretch the Australians tomorrow and recover some lost confidence.

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Post by msp83 Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:08 pm

I'd say bring Finn in for Monty the next game in place and keep the rest of the side in tact. But I feel they'll bring in Bresnan, or Rankin or Tremlett, and perhaps drop Stokes too.

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Post by Liam Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:15 pm

If there's no rain, I fancy Oz to wrap it up early. Broad won't be there long and I fear Prior's poor form will raise its head again after he got a bit of luck yesterday.

All out for 290 for me, 2-0 with Perth up next, has 3-0 written all over it.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:16 pm

http://www.weather.com/weather/hourbyhour/graph/Adelaide+ASXX0001:1:AS?pagenum=2&nextbeginIndex=6

Looks bright enough from mid-afternoon onwards. Australia should have enough time to polish this off.

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Post by Liam Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:19 pm

Realistically, i'd bring in Finn for the WACA. Our fastest bowler and yes is a little erratic atm but with us possibly 2-0 down needing a win, we need to push the boat out. Bringing in Bresnan or Tremlett won't do that. Stokes showed promise with the bat and bowled nicely so keep him in and swap Monty for Finn. They won't though, they can't wait to bring Bresnan in....

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Post by msp83 Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:20 pm

A session should be enough time for Australia to finish this off. England will need the weather gods to be a lot more kinder and their lower order to be a lot more stubborn and determined.

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Post by KP_fan Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:20 pm

drop Flower....and  see the diffrence
drop Flower and bring in Warne......and give him the same authorities that Flower had.....and see Eng rise to the top and stay there.

can't believe a nation with world class bowling allrounders like Woakes and Stokes......90 mph pacers like Meaker and Finn......skillfull seamers like  Oniions, Darnbach......stroke players like Lumb, Hales, wright, Morgan, Bopara.....spinner like panesar...none of which optimally utilized....should languish at No. 4 in OCC rankings.

Yes Eng will droip to No. 4 if they lose this series by a big Margin
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Post by msp83 Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:23 pm

If England aren't playing Finn in the tests, I hope they'll drop him from the ODIs and let him go back to Gus Fraser and work on the technical issues affecting his bowling. The England coaches aren't any good with him, if anything, they've done more damage with the run-up mess and stuff....... But they won't do that either, Broad and Anderson will rest for the ODIs, and Finn will be playing those or carrying drinks.......

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Post by Duty281 Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:24 pm

KP_fan wrote:drop Flower....and  see the diffrence
drop Flower and bring in Warne......and give him the same authorities that Flower had.....and see Eng rise to the top and stay there.

can't believe a nation with world class bowling allrounders like Woakes and Stokes......90 mph pacers like Meaker and Finn......skillfull seamers like  Oniions, Darnbach......stroke players like Lumb, Hales, wright, Morgan, Bopara.....spinner like panesar...none of which optimally utilized....should languish at No. 4 in OCC rankings.

Yes Eng will droip to No. 4 if they lose this series by a big Margin
Good on ya KP_Fan, you reverse jinxed England perfectly in India - I think we were going down to no.5 in the rankings that time.

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Post by KP_fan Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:25 pm

Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:drop Flower....and  see the diffrence
drop Flower and bring in Warne......and give him the same authorities that Flower had.....and see Eng rise to the top and stay there.

can't believe a nation with world class bowling allrounders like Woakes and Stokes......90 mph pacers like Meaker and Finn......skillfull seamers like  Oniions, Darnbach......stroke players like Lumb, Hales, wright, Morgan, Bopara.....spinner like panesar...none of which optimally utilized....should languish at No. 4 in OCC rankings.

Yes Eng will droip to No. 4 if they lose this series by a big Margin
Good on ya KP_Fan, you reverse jinxed England perfectly in India - I think we were going down to no.5 in the rankings that time.
i love Eng so much that I reverse jinx them deliberately...if that makes you happy Wink
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:26 pm

People slating Bresnan. I weep. Uneducated fools #bresilad
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Post by Duty281 Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:30 pm

Olly wrote:People slating Bresnan. I weep. Uneducated fools #bresilad
Reliable Tim over wayward Finn any day.

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Post by Stella Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:35 pm

Give me Flower over Warne, thanks.

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Post by kingraf Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:41 pm

Given that it seems England can only win the Ashes under a Zimbabwean coach... I think Pommie Mbangwa is the obvious choice. Even his name is apt!!
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Post by Duty281 Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:45 pm

Stella wrote:Give me Flower over Warne, thanks.

And I'm not too keen on Lumb, Hales, Dernbach, Wright, Morgan, Bopara as test match standard either.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:45 pm

England should get someone English in.

The King of Spain perhaps? Wink

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Post by KP_fan Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:46 pm

Olly wrote:People slating Bresnan. I weep. Uneducated fools #bresilad
yes for he is the world's best trundler.

and would also ranks quite highöy in ICC list of top bits and pieces players......if there was ever one created.
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Post by KP_fan Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:48 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Stella wrote:Give me Flower over Warne, thanks.

And I'm not too keen on Lumb, Hales, Dernbach, Wright, Morgan, Bopara as test match standard either.
Flower has drillied this "test match skill thingy" and conditoned innocent minds of many a followers to not see as " cricketing talent as simply talkent in all forms"
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Post by KP_fan Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:49 pm

kingraf wrote:Given that it seems England can only win the Ashes under a Zimbabwean coach... I think Pommie Mbangwa is the obvious choice. Even his name is apt!!
Pommie naaah....not the right category...Edo Brandes perhaps

and once Flower is fired....India will hire him Wink
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:50 pm

Lumb - Can't play spin in ODI's, let alone tests
Hales - Awful just awful CC this year, but has the potential
Dernbach - sucks
Wright - Good ODI cricketer, but not one to be ahead of Stokes, Woakes, Bresnan etc
Morgan and Bopara - Been there, done that.
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Post by kingraf Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:50 pm

that actually made me laugh, KP
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Post by msp83 Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:52 pm

kingraf wrote:Given that it seems England can only win the Ashes under a Zimbabwean coach... I think Pommie Mbangwa is the obvious choice. Even his name is apt!!
Excellent one, kingraf!!.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:53 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Stella wrote:Give me Flower over Warne, thanks.

And I'm not too keen on Lumb, Hales, Dernbach, Wright, Morgan, Bopara as test match standard either.
Flower has drillied this "test match skill thingy"  and conditoned  innocent minds of many a followers to not see as " cricketing talent as simply talkent in all forms"
If I had my way, England wouldn't be playing in any of the pointless ODIs and T20s that so riddle the calendar.

Limited overs cricket is a lot like most of my relationships - they're just a bit of fun and nothing serious.

And those six players aren't test match standard.

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Post by msp83 Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:55 pm

Duty281 wrote:England should get someone English in.

The King of Spain perhaps? Wink
Has George Dockrell moved to Warwickshire for the upcoming county season?

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:55 pm

Grey skies in Adelaide, however no moisture so far...

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Post by KP_fan Sun 08 Dec 2013, 9:01 pm

Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Stella wrote:Give me Flower over Warne, thanks.

And I'm not too keen on Lumb, Hales, Dernbach, Wright, Morgan, Bopara as test match standard either.
Flower has drillied this "test match skill thingy"  and conditoned  innocent minds of many a followers to not see as " cricketing talent as simply talkent in all forms"
If I had my way, England wouldn't be playing in any of the pointless ODIs and T20s that so riddle the calendar.

Limited overs cricket is a lot like most of my relationships - they're just a bit of fun and nothing serious.

And those six players aren't test match standard.
that's flower's conditioning speaking in big and bold.
aussies , SA and Indians look at it as " cricketing talent in one form....is talen in any form"
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Post by Duty281 Sun 08 Dec 2013, 9:05 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Stella wrote:Give me Flower over Warne, thanks.

And I'm not too keen on Lumb, Hales, Dernbach, Wright, Morgan, Bopara as test match standard either.
Flower has drillied this "test match skill thingy"  and conditoned  innocent minds of many a followers to not see as " cricketing talent as simply talkent in all forms"
If I had my way, England wouldn't be playing in any of the pointless ODIs and T20s that so riddle the calendar.

Limited overs cricket is a lot like most of my relationships - they're just a bit of fun and nothing serious.

And those six players aren't test match standard.  
that's flower's conditioning speaking in big and bold.
aussies , SA and Indians look at it as " cricketing talent in one form....is talen in any form"
They're not test match standard.
But they are limited overs standard, with the exception of Dernbach.

Different format, different game.

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Post by kingraf Sun 08 Dec 2013, 9:08 pm

ah Dernbach... boy did we dodge a bullet with him
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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun 08 Dec 2013, 9:43 pm

It is now drizzling in Adelaide. The Weather Channel is forecasting rain in Adelaide intermittently until 2pm.
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Post by msp83 Sun 08 Dec 2013, 10:06 pm

Can Matt Prior overturn the horrendous start to the series and the save the game with some help from the weather? If England do manage to do the unlikely, then the series gets wide opened again......

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Post by Pal Joey Sun 08 Dec 2013, 11:16 pm

msp83 wrote:Can Matt Prior overturn the horrendous start to the series and the save the game with some help from the weather? If England do manage to do the unlikely, then the series gets wide opened again......
Hopefully not.  

Light drizzle only and the main cloud has already passed over. SA is the driest state in Australia... let's hope it lives up to its name. Smile
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Post by alfie Sun 08 Dec 2013, 11:22 pm

As I look out my window it is hosing down ....unfortunately 500 miles too far east Smile 

I actually got a laugh out of KP fan's effort this morning...I mean laughing with him this time , at the obvious wind-up. A change from laughing at some of the daft ideas he regularly peddles...
Perhaps I should chill altogether since even his tiresome war on Flower may simply be part of a slightly left-of-centre brand of humour ? In which case I apologise for ever taking him seriously...

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Post by alfie Sun 08 Dec 2013, 11:23 pm

Linebreaker wrote:
msp83 wrote:Can Matt Prior overturn the horrendous start to the series and the save the game with some help from the weather? If England do manage to do the unlikely, then the series gets wide opened again......
Hopefully not.  

Light drizzle only and the main cloud has already passed over. SA is the driest state in Australia... let's hope it lives up to its name. Smile
Any chance of a cyclone , do you think , LB ?

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Post by Pal Joey Sun 08 Dec 2013, 11:28 pm

yes, all those storms north of Adelaide are sliding down into Vic. It sure looks dark out there... or is that just the low-e glass from the Comm Box?

Alfie, he'll have to be replaced by a Saffa... no Aussies would take up the offer. There is an unwritten law for rugby and cricket (no coaches from the opposing enemy!) - most England and Australian fans would feel the same, I'm sure. boxing Hug 
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Post by guildfordbat Sun 08 Dec 2013, 11:30 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:It is now drizzling in Adelaide. The Weather Channel is forecasting rain in Adelaide intermittently until 2pm.
Are we going to have the excitement of the Ashes Test at the Oval in 1968? Most probably not but it sure would be exciting if we did!

Back then, Derek Underwood took a bagful of wickets to win this Test for England with just five minutes to spare. That had seemed a remote possibility earlier in the day as the outfied resembled a lake. Encouraged by captain Colin Cowdrey, spectators lay down their rugs on the outfied and old ladies made holes in the ground with their knitting needles to successfully mop up the water.

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Post by Pal Joey Sun 08 Dec 2013, 11:35 pm

The breeze has picked up and has blown those light showers away.

The covers are off and we're starting on time. The Aussies are out there limbering up.
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Post by Liam Sun 08 Dec 2013, 11:40 pm

He really is a class A c*ock Johnson. England need to be fired up for the third test. At the WACA, Oz will be licking their lips and if that doesn't fire the England side up I don't know what will. I think this test is lost, England need a once in a lifetime performance in Perth, bring in:

Finn - 4 over bursts, ask him to bowl flat out 90mph hostile bowling and if he goes for a few fair enough but if he get's his confidence up he can be our Johnson

KP, Root, Prior and Bell finally have a few runs, time for them to take the Aussies on on their favorite surface and show some b*lls and stand up and be counted.

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Post by guildfordbat Sun 08 Dec 2013, 11:41 pm

Linebreaker wrote:The breeze has picked up and has blown those light showers away.

The covers are off and we're starting on time. The Aussies are out there limbering up.
Thanks, Linebreaker. That really stuffs up my previous post! Very Happy 

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Post by Pal Joey Sun 08 Dec 2013, 11:44 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Linebreaker wrote:The breeze has picked up and has blown those light showers away.

The covers are off and we're starting on time. The Aussies are out there limbering up.
Thanks, Linebreaker. That really stuffs up my previous post! Very Happy 
I posted too soon, Guildford. The covers are back on as the rain comes back.
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Post by alfie Sun 08 Dec 2013, 11:44 pm

Linebreaker wrote:The breeze has picked up and has blown those light showers away.

The covers are off and we're starting on time. The Aussies are out there limbering up.
Just as well. Broad and Prior will probably need a full day to get those 284 runs Very Happy 

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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 09 Dec 2013, 12:07 am

Only a ten minute delay to the start of play. An old cliche I know but England must take this one ball at a time.
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