England Fly Halves

Which England qualified 10s are playing best in the AP (or elsewhere) at the moment?

Inherent bias says Myler, but Ford is getting Barf moving very well and is making his kicks.

Followed I am surprised to say by Cipriani.

Neither Farrell, Burns or Flood are ding it at the moment for me. Flood is good ball in hand but his kicking is awful; Burns kicking is even worse.

Please try and keep club bias out of it. My hierarchy is as follows:

Ford
Myler
Cipriani
Farrell
Flood
Burns

Ford's kicking is too ropey and his confidence can go up and down, he needs more time and some big pressure games 1st

Myler is a solid club player at best

Cips is all over the shop, sometimes the best in the UK sometimes just wont tackle..still proving himself after last seasons mess

Farrell has pinpoint kicking, huge defense and great temprement but poor distribution, the backline play in the AI;s was embarrassing, but with Barrit and tuilagi hes okay

Flood is solid at all flyhalf assets and is solid at international level but lacks that real spark needed for a world cup winning team

Burns looked epic last year but is off the pace with the rest of gloucester

My ranking at the moment
Flood
Farrell
Cipriani
Burns

on current form, then: no real slam dunk, eh?

I think that's part of the problem with this England team, a lot of candidates, not no one player has seemed to really lock down his position, with a few exceptions (Brown at fullback, for instance).

I know I'll regret saying this but... When does Botica qualify?

Farrell owns the shirt, he's a good player and the one that someone needs to put their hand up for to steal it. Ford is on form, but he's not ready yet, no chance.

Yes i think you should regret saying Botica LOW.  

Bathite, thats it in a nutshell. Farrell is the solid consistant player at the moment. Noone of the challengers have put their hand up to take the shirt off him. I rate Burns very highly but he's in poor form (not helped by a woeful pack), so how can he be selected.

Bathite, that was my point, current form, as the Dr, said, they all seem to have good periods then go off form for longer.

Sirtidychris, disagree about Myler, he may not excel at anything, but he has no real weaknesses either. Kicking these days is good from both ground and hands. Defence is solid, both in the tackle and supporting the back three. He plays the game at pace and gets very flat when he needs to (something Farrell has difficulty with) and can bring the big runners into the game. This is exactly what England tried to do (and failed miserably as far as the backs were concerned) in the AIs. He has seen off challenges from the likes of Geraghty (spelling) and Lamb, both brought in for their attacking ability and shown he can do it better and more consistently.

I actually left out the best 10 as he is retired from international rugby, Hodgson keeps Farrell out of the 10 shirt at Sarries and is no longer a Cips like revolving door in defence.

The AIs showed England trying to play the Saints style, the forwards succeeded the backs....... enough said.

Floods place kicking recently has been awful, still very good ball in hand though.

With half-backs in particular, they are most often judged by the ball that their broken and tight forwards can deliver and perceptions are coloured on that basis.

For instance both Youngs and Flood at Tigers together with those at Bath, Sarries and others with dominant scrums are flattered by their posture behind over-stuffed armchairs.

I like to measure players relative to their own standards and relative abilities.

At fly-half Flood is definitely currently below par, Cips and Burns are OK, Farrell (undroppable for his boot) is too Jonnyesque in standing too deep.

Ford for me though for positive creativity and intent although his boot is unreliable.

But overall as points is points, Farrell.

He plays the game at pace and gets very flat when he needs to (something Farrell has difficulty with)

Past it...im not sure Farrell does have difficulty with it. He does it for Saracens, it appears to be for England that he plays too deep. This would suggest he has instructions to stand so deep and it is this that is making me think the system is the problem not the players.

sirtidychris wrote:Ford's kicking is too ropey and his confidence can go up and down, he needs more time and some big pressure games 1st

Myler is a solid club player at best

Cips is all over the shop, sometimes the best in the UK sometimes just wont tackle..still proving himself after last seasons mess

Farrell has pinpoint kicking, huge defense and great temprement but poor distribution, the backline play in the AI;s was embarrassing, but with Barrit and tuilagi hes okay

Flood is solid at all flyhalf assets and is solid at international level but lacks that real spark needed for a world cup winning team

Burns looked epic last year but is off the pace with the rest of gloucester

My ranking at the moment
Flood
Farrell
Cipriani
Burns

in regards to Farrell, there was those two matches he played for the Lions where he stood quite flat and it looked very good.

wonder why he did that then and not over the AIs

I do think that Farrell is underrated by some. He looks at home in internationally rugby at the doddering old age of 22. How many players come into a team at 21 (when he made his debut) and are the finished article? He’s up against flyhalfs who are much older and more experienced than him. He is already very consistent with the boot and in defence. With the right kind of ball I think he could be a decent attacking flyhalf too. Plus I reckon Owen Farrell at 22 with 18 caps will be a much different player at 25 with 30-40 caps. I mean, he’ll be some player when his game management skills are fully matured.

Saying all of that, I reckon George Ford is a once in a generation talent for England and needs to be nurtured carefully. I see no reason at all to rush him into international rugby. Let him keep learning his trade at Bath. Then introduce him as competition to the likes of Farrell/ Burns when he is around 22 as part of a hopefully settled and more experienced squad.

I know some people dont like it but I think its great that Farrell has that aggressive edge. And he is a big guy for a no.10. He hasnt got pace but hopefully if he is anything like his dad he will compensate by getting smarter. Maybe less likely to make the half breaks but more likely to make space through offloads.

lostinwales wrote:I know some people dont like it but I think its great that Farrell has that aggressive edge. And he is a big guy for a no.10. He hasnt got pace but hopefully if he is anything like his dad he will compensate by getting smarter. Maybe less likely to make the half breaks but more likely to make space through offloads.

It's one of the biggest reasons I like him! Since 2003 until recently it seemed like we had honest tryers who have been almost apolgetic about taking the field against the oppostion. Now with guys like Farrell, Marler Lawes and Hartley we have players with a bit of edge. Let's face it, most people love to see us lose anyway so why bother trying to make friends?

Ford is starting to show some real flexibility in his game, on wet days like at newcastle he kicks the leather of the ball for territory (to the dismay of eastmond) and kicks his points and on dry days he makes breaks, stands flat and brings people into the game.

WELL-PAST-IT
"Disagree about Myler, he may not excel at anything, but he has no real weaknesses either"

Still don't want a flyhalf in the team that doesn't excel at anything ! he's doing well at saints this year but saints have quality across the board at the moment, and being there number 10 is a nice place to be, i would like to see burns behind a saints, sarries or bath pack and see what he looks like then.

I agree about Farrells agression aswell.

I said on another thread, people call him the ICe man. I dont see that at all...i see a guy who is aggressive and gets stuck in to the opposition.

Farrell isnt a naturally attack minded player. He wont be a Carter style player or a Carlos Spencer style runner. But if he can just get over this urge to go boot first and just play a little more heads up rugby, taking the odd risk then he could be a very good general for England out on the field.

Let the 9, 11, 12,13,14,15 create the fireworks, as long as Farrell just manages the game...and where to do the fireworks.

sirtidychris wrote:
Farrell has pinpoint kicking, huge defense and great temprement but poor distribution, the backline play in the AI;s was embarrassing, but with Barrit and tuilagi hes okay

i actually disagree on the whole 'Farrell has great temperment' claim

he is good at club level with handling the pressure, but when it comes to big stage he gets wound up scrappy, and does miss some crucial kicks more regularly than some others

would have him, Cips, Ford in England squad though. He is still England's best match controlling 10, and given confidence in running game and work on passing (he passes behind the man far too often) he could become great, but otherwise a guy like Cips can tear games apart after a farrell start or vice versa farrell can come on and control it

Ford is future for England, should be in and around the set up asap

Wheres all this Cipriani talk coming from?

Wouldnt want him anywhere near the England team.

I think people forget that Faz minor is only 22, he has 19 england and 1 lions cap under his belt, from the word go when he came in for his first six nations he looked like he could handle the big stage....yeah he can get a bit riled up sometimes, but i think thats more about being young and proving himself as a Bloke. He misses a few kicks but his percentages are up there with international 10's and when i see him doing his zombie stare pre-kick routine im quietly confident he'll nail it.

What has happend to Ryan Lamb? Is he injured? Have not heard any think about him for a while.