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World Cup Draw

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Dolphin Ziggler
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Post by Duty281 Fri 06 Dec 2013, 10:58 am

First topic message reminder :

Live on BBC 2 at 16:30 GMT. Here are the pots:

Pot 1 (top eight seeds): Brazil, Spain, Argentina, Belgium, Colombia, Germany, Switzerland, Uruguay.

Pot 2: Ivory Coast, Ghana, Algeria, Nigeria, Cameroon, Chile, Ecuador.

Pot 3: Japan, Iran, South Korea, Australia, United States, Mexico, Costa Rica, Honduras.

Pot 4: Bosnia-Hercegovina, Croatia, England, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, Portugal, Russia, France.


One team from Pot 4 will move into Pot 2.

England's hardest possible group: Brazil, England, United States, Netherlands (or maybe Italy)...it could happen!
England's easiest possible group: Switzerland, Nigeria, Honduras, England.

I've got my fingers crossed that we get the Argentines!

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 06 Dec 2013, 11:12 pm

Townsend is doing my head in nick.

40 shots for totenham and 1 goal!!

He did well for England now just keeps blasting the ball for totenham wasting chance after chance.

I am not sure- I think it was a purple patch

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Post by Guest Fri 06 Dec 2013, 11:14 pm

Townsend has definitely earned serious consideration. He's stepped up. Who else has?

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 06 Dec 2013, 11:16 pm

Welbeck stepped up in the england shirt yes.

Morrison is stepping up at west ham.

He is making the rest of his team look pretty poor in honest. He didnt do much in the palace game- but by god he is so comfortable on the ball, and has a decent physical presence- He doesnt look english- pout it that way- Has a bit of Brazilian about him

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Post by Guest Fri 06 Dec 2013, 11:16 pm

Ravel will not go. Great talent with huge potential but it's the uncertainty around him n slapping people that will cost him unfortunately. You feel 2016 will be his time to break-through post Gerrard n Lampard. As for Brazil, Barkley will be the risk choice Roy will go with, especially after Everton have such a good season. No brainer for me & he will be persuaded to go in that direction.

I don't see OX breaking into the Arsenal side regularly, do you? Arsene will not upset this winning team too much. Welbeck is like Roy's golden child, like Downing was for McClaren. Welbeck is a certainty for that left side role because nobody else can do the job either offensively or defensively like Welbeck can. Yeah, Danny can't finish for **** but I don't see anyone else taking that place off him.

Townsend is the typical story of a young footballer in the spotlight. Like a tennis player who breaks onto the scene but then the other players spot the weakness n it's exploited. Same with Andros. Started with Newcastle doubling up with Santon n Gouffran n pushing him onto his right continuosly. Basically stop him on his left n he's no threat at all.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 06 Dec 2013, 11:20 pm

There is a part of me that thinks zaha might get a chance off a call up.

If he gets a loan deal.. BUT

If United loan him out to cardiff. I will be a man u hater

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Post by socal1976 Fri 06 Dec 2013, 11:26 pm

compelling and rich wrote:same old england wheel out the "big names" despite them not even playing that well anymore. if we start lampard and gerrard in midfield we'll be out in the groups.

i would like a manager with balls who could build a team that could challenge in future, were not challenging now no matter what. i would be more excited watching a midfield of morrison, barkley and wilshere over the midfield that has never produced for england that we will see in brazil
I agree with this, even if they don't go far you will lay the groundwork for a core of players that can help you possibly challenge for the next Euros or World Cup. It would be a young and technically gifted midfield. Gerrard is past it but his ability on the set pieces and delivering the long ball may make him a player England could use. Lampard for sure should not play and maybe Gerrard as well should be used as a reserve.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 06 Dec 2013, 11:28 pm

I personally wouldn't play Gerard

BUt Roy 100% will.

He will be our captain- if fit.

So thats one position i cant really be bothered debating- It is set in stone, and tbh I cant really fault the reasoning. There is something to said for having him as a leader


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Post by Guest Fri 06 Dec 2013, 11:28 pm

socal1976 wrote:
compelling and rich wrote:same old england wheel out the "big names" despite them not even playing that well anymore. if we start lampard and gerrard in midfield we'll be out in the groups.

i would like a manager with balls who could build a team that could challenge in future, were not challenging now no matter what. i would be more excited watching a midfield of morrison, barkley and wilshere over the midfield that has never produced for england that we will see in brazil
Gerrard is past it but his ability on the set pieces and delivering the long ball may make him a player England could use.
This is what is wrong with our game full stop.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 06 Dec 2013, 11:29 pm

Rooney has proved to bethe best deliverer of the ball in the English game this year. But the problem is we havent got another rooney to be on the end of it!!

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 06 Dec 2013, 11:30 pm

If only Carrol could get fit again!

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 06 Dec 2013, 11:31 pm

FreekShow wrote:Townsend has definitely earned serious consideration. He's stepped up. Who else has?
Nathan Redmond is quietly playing very well week in week out...
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Post by socal1976 Fri 06 Dec 2013, 11:32 pm

FreekShow wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
compelling and rich wrote:same old england wheel out the "big names" despite them not even playing that well anymore. if we start lampard and gerrard in midfield we'll be out in the groups.

i would like a manager with balls who could build a team that could challenge in future, were not challenging now no matter what. i would be more excited watching a midfield of morrison, barkley and wilshere over the midfield that has never produced for england that we will see in brazil
Gerrard is past it but his ability on the set pieces and delivering the long ball may make him a player England could use.  
This is what is wrong with our game full stop.
Just for clarification I said he shouldn't start but we could use him, please provide the rest of the quote, I actually agreed with CR

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Post by Guest Fri 06 Dec 2013, 11:39 pm

socal1976 wrote:
FreekShow wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
compelling and rich wrote:same old england wheel out the "big names" despite them not even playing that well anymore. if we start lampard and gerrard in midfield we'll be out in the groups.

i would like a manager with balls who could build a team that could challenge in future, were not challenging now no matter what. i would be more excited watching a midfield of morrison, barkley and wilshere over the midfield that has never produced for england that we will see in brazil
Gerrard is past it but his ability on the set pieces and delivering the long ball may make him a player England could use.  
This is what is wrong with our game full stop.
Just for clarification I said he shouldn't start but we could use him, please provide the rest of the quote, I actually agreed with CR
I used that part of your post to emphasize my point which is that we (the England football team and the fans in general) still look at set pieces and long balls as an important part of our play. We are 20 years behind with this way of thinking.

Wasn't a pop at you Socal buddy Hug 

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 06 Dec 2013, 11:41 pm

What's wrong with taking advantage of set pieces like corners and free kicks?
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Post by Guest Fri 06 Dec 2013, 11:42 pm

Olly wrote:
FreekShow wrote:Townsend has definitely earned serious consideration. He's stepped up. Who else has?
Nathan Redmond is quietly playing very well week in week out...
Is this a score tip Olly?

You owe me one or two.

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Post by socal1976 Fri 06 Dec 2013, 11:45 pm

FreekShow wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
FreekShow wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
compelling and rich wrote:same old england wheel out the "big names" despite them not even playing that well anymore. if we start lampard and gerrard in midfield we'll be out in the groups.

i would like a manager with balls who could build a team that could challenge in future, were not challenging now no matter what. i would be more excited watching a midfield of morrison, barkley and wilshere over the midfield that has never produced for england that we will see in brazil
Gerrard is past it but his ability on the set pieces and delivering the long ball may make him a player England could use.  
This is what is wrong with our game full stop.
Just for clarification I said he shouldn't start but we could use him, please provide the rest of the quote, I actually agreed with CR
I used that part of your post to emphasize my point which is that we (the England football team and the fans in general) still look at set pieces and long balls as an important part of our play. We are 20 years behind with this way of thinking.

Wasn't a pop at you Socal buddy Hug 
Fair enough thanks, I just didn't want an inaccurate picture of my thoughts. But I agree with you it would be better going for pacer and more technical players, I watch the EPL but I am not English or a supporter of the lions, do they have enough of those type of players to do it against teams that play that way like Arg. or Spain? I agree though if England wants to win one of the big trophies it plays for it needs to produce and foster those type of player instead of focus on the long ball and set piece.

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Post by Guest Fri 06 Dec 2013, 11:48 pm

Olly wrote:What's wrong with taking advantage of set pieces like corners and free kicks?
Nothing but I'd rather an England team that is picked purely on footballing ability than who can whack a free kick or ping a corner or two.

I must be old fashioned.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 06 Dec 2013, 11:48 pm

Germany still get a lot of set piece goals, and England probably will also for a long time to Come.

We are producing more technical players. Watch Our under 21 side to see.

But when a tourny comes I suppose we never look at the future only the now.

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Post by monty junior Sat 07 Dec 2013, 12:14 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I'm not worried by Uruguay, take Cavani and Suarez out of their team and they are a bunch of oldish men who are nothing special. I think we'll get through but with a couple of hiccups along the way.
But they won't take those two out, they also have a number of other very good players like Muslera,Godin and Perieira

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sat 07 Dec 2013, 12:23 am

I'd say the rest of the Uruguay team is good, I wouldn't say any of the rest are world class or even approaching it.

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Post by Guest Sat 07 Dec 2013, 12:37 am

Muslera is good but is only a keeper, Caceras is up & down, Godin is an OAP, Perieira is pretty decent, Forlan basically is finished nowadays n doesn't even get in the first team anymore n in decline. Gaston Ramirez has hardly blown us away for Southampton n then you have the two superstars. Many issues throughout the team, just like with us & hence why we both made hard work of qualifying. I'd say that sitting back & countering on Uruguay's defence will be alot easier than sitting back n countering on Italy. A draw in the first game would be a strong foundation to build upon, seeing as italy/uruguay play each other last.

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Post by compelling and rich Sat 07 Dec 2013, 1:09 am

mystiroakey wrote:Germany still get a lot of set piece goals, and England probably will also for a long time to Come.

We are producing more technical players. Watch Our under 21 side to see.

But when a tourny comes I suppose we never look at the future only the now.
is this the same under 21's that finished last in there group without a point and has been knocked out in the groups for the last two tournaments?

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Post by mystiroakey Sat 07 Dec 2013, 1:11 am

well its a bit different- but all the same I am talking about technical players over success.

The two arn't inclusive


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Post by compelling and rich Sat 07 Dec 2013, 1:35 am

no, but its no good if were producing rubbish technical players

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Post by mystiroakey Sat 07 Dec 2013, 1:37 am

I wouldnt call them rubbish at all.

I think we have some decent talents that are more technical than before-

The answers to the ultimate questions will come later!

Will they be good enough to improve England

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Post by owen10ozzy Sat 07 Dec 2013, 1:59 am

Ok I have just got in from a night out, i'm not going to bother reading the thread as I would imagine 70% of it over positive fans and Duty; the rest realistic who are called negative because they see it as the stats show.

First of all, from everything I have read on forums and websites (from the pundits); one thing that stands out is the lack of respect for teams like Ecuador, Honduras, Chile etc ....when faced with them in normal circumstances of course you can overlook them, but given this is a world cup in S.America it staggers me how naive European 'experts' are being. Outside of Spain in 2010 their is a reason no European country has one a World Cup in another continent. It's bloody difficult to do so!

Secondly; the one thing I keep seeing crop up is Wayne Rooner. Oh Rooney is a player who can change a game; Rooney is the player that sets us and Uruguay apart, etc etc! Can I just remind everyone that this is the same Rooney who hasn't performed in a major tournament for our national team at a finals since bursting onto the scene at 2004. He can score goals I will give him that but lest we forget this is a guy who was sent off in our most important game....missed two games because of ill discipline in a final qualifier and in general (bar 1 game when he burst onto the scene against Switzerland) has looked mediocre in tournament finals. He is without a shadow of a doubt the most inconsistent 'one of the best players in the world' ever!

I'll be putting one bet on next year and thats 6-1 for Spain to win it; it makes England at 33-1 look like real contenders....and that says everything!

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Post by compelling and rich Sat 07 Dec 2013, 2:07 am

correct me in im wrong but im pretty sure rooney has never scored in the WC

and this is the main man that all of our hopes hang on!

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Post by mystiroakey Sat 07 Dec 2013, 2:11 am

he has scored in the word cup mate- he had a really good first one, the next two he was semi injured

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Sat 07 Dec 2013, 2:12 am

To be fair Owen, youve never posted anything positive on this forum. Ever. So I will happily take the pinch of salt I take Duty's opinion with and match it with the pinch I pepper towards yours.

I think most people have said "we have a good to middling chance" of getting through. We'll see.


Also, on the Morrison point, he didnt slap anyone. He was rather rounded on and pushed the guy. Joel Ward (Mysti can check that for me) came out after the game and said it was absolutely nothing, and credit to him for doing that. It was confrontation started by Tomkins that Morrison was dragged into by being a West Ham player in the vicinity. Hes not once lost his cool playing a game and should be noted for that cos the way he glides past people means he takes a lot of kicks.

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Post by mystiroakey Sat 07 Dec 2013, 2:14 am

By the way owen. I have no idea where you have been getting all this feed back from- but i haven't heard anything of the sort.


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Post by mystiroakey Sat 07 Dec 2013, 2:18 am

I dont know what Ward said, But we love ward at palace, he is a hard worker and a down to earth person..

Morrison shouldn't have pushed him in the face, whatever ward said after

He did the same to Zaha though mate. He cant keep doing that- Pushing is one thing- but in the face is crossing a line.

BUt I rate him as high, and I just want him to stop doing those things- Because otherwise players will just wind him up to get that reaction out of him..

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Sat 07 Dec 2013, 2:21 am

To be fair, Zaha started the argument there if reports are to be believed too. I dont really think he was going for the face anyway with that push, if you believe what you hear about him then if he wanted to hit someone in the face he'd him em. It was handbags stuff.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Sat 07 Dec 2013, 2:23 am

Not to say he doesnt need to cut some of it out, but his behaviour in game has been surprisingly good. The boy gets chopped a lot. But lets not kill him before he makes it

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Post by mystiroakey Sat 07 Dec 2013, 2:25 am

whether pushing someone in the face is hand bags or not is immaterial, who ever starts things is also immaterial.

If he keeps pushing people in the face he will allways be seen by the refs and by the FA as the worse offender.

You do that to 75% of PL players(not players like ward or zaha who are down to earth english championship lads) they will roll over and and create a massive scene over these things


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Post by mystiroakey Sat 07 Dec 2013, 2:29 am

But you are right in a way,

both were after the game. Its kind of strange that he has that ability to reign it in during the game and then react after ..

Its a partially positive sign i suppose..

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Sat 07 Dec 2013, 2:47 am

I think his anger boils down to respect. I bet he loves being kicked, if you cant stop a player in any other way but kicking him its a massive compliment. But if its gonna be a scrap he wont let anyone get one over him.

I do take it as a positive he hasnt started anything though. Rooney's problem has been that he'll make a fight, least Ravel hasn't got that red mist yet. I dont think its touch and go any more, he just needs a tentative eye on him.

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Post by Guest Sat 07 Dec 2013, 2:55 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:To be fair Owen, youve never posted anything positive on this forum. Ever.
A bit harsh there Chris. Owen's a quality poster on this forum , as you are good sir. Check his boxing posts for proof.

I agree with alot of his England ramblings. Shoot me Very Happy 


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Post by Ent Sat 07 Dec 2013, 3:05 am

Given he deals drugs, beats women (his mother) and robs the changing rooms I wouldn't hold any hope out for morrison.

People forgive anything when they have 2 decent games for their team- even 2 red card offences.

World Cup candidate - really?

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Post by Guest Sat 07 Dec 2013, 3:17 am

Ent wrote:Given he deals drugs, beats women (his mother) and robs the changing rooms I wouldn't hold any hope out for morrison.

People forgive anything when they have 2 decent games for their team- even 2 red card offences.

World Cup candidate - really?
Good job Wales never got there then. Ryan Giggs shagging his own brothers missus for a decade and paying her to abort their baby.

Morals are a mo fo.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 07 Dec 2013, 7:45 am

FreekShow wrote:
Olly wrote:
FreekShow wrote:Townsend has definitely earned serious consideration. He's stepped up. Who else has?
Nathan Redmond is quietly playing very well week in week out...
Is this a score tip Olly?

You owe me one or two.
Us to score? Away from home? Don't make me laugh Freek! Very Happy 
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 07 Dec 2013, 7:48 am

compelling and rich wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Germany still get a lot of set piece goals, and England probably will also for a long time to Come.

We are producing more technical players. Watch Our under 21 side to see.

But when a tourny comes I suppose we never look at the future only the now.
is this the same under 21's that finished last in there group without a point and has been knocked out in the groups for the last two tournaments?
I gotta agree with Mysti here, our U21's do have some good technical players coming through. Barkley, Morrison, Hughes, Ward Prowse, Shaw, Redmond, Ince, Zaha, Berahino, Stones are all good on the ball. They're not all world beaters, but there is definitely some talent coming through
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 07 Dec 2013, 7:49 am

FreekShow wrote:
Olly wrote:What's wrong with taking advantage of set pieces like corners and free kicks?
Nothing but I'd rather an England team that is picked purely on footballing ability than who can whack a free kick or ping a corner or two.

I must be old fashioned.
Well yes indeed. But its certainly good that players like Gerrard and Baines can deliver good set pieces. I'd have both in my starting xi before that reason anyways
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Post by alfie Sat 07 Dec 2013, 9:30 am

Some faint hearted fans on here Smile 

OK not the easiest group at all : but come on - Italy are nothing special lately , and Uraguay made this final through the cat-door...

Not suggesting easy , but if they play as well as they can qualifying for round two is far from impossible. At least they will know they have to get stuck in from the off instead of the delusional "we'll just coast through the group , and then..." approach that has helped to undo them in recent major events.

At least get behind them for a start !

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sat 07 Dec 2013, 10:20 am

Morrison is a player we rated very highly at United, we could do with him right now were it not for his poor attitude when he was coming through. Looking at the youngsters coming through there does seem to have been a shift in the aptitude of the players, it seems we are finally going down the ball playing skills path instead of the old school hustle and bustle. The England team need to look at Scholes for it's progression, no player we've produced in the past 20 years is regarded as highly on the continent.

I'd leave Gerrard on the bench and select from Barkley, Wilshere, Rodwell and Morrison for the central midfield spots. Speaking of which Rodwell needs to move from City and pretty damn quick, had far too much potential to be stuck not playing.

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Post by mystiroakey Sat 07 Dec 2013, 10:32 am

in regards to technical ability lads- dont get confused as to thinking there are allways more effective players.

There are possibly 35 teams out there that have a better technical first team than England- but only 10-15 are actually better.

Some times you have to get worse to get better


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Post by J.Benson II Sat 07 Dec 2013, 11:25 am

A tough draw for England but not the toughest. Holland and Portugal are two big European sides who have it even tougher. Even the Germans and Spanish will be slightly concerned from their groups.
I think the tough draw suits England better anyway. No complacency and the under-estimation of opponents like we saw last time.
England can pull through. However, despite positive, attacking performances against Montenegro & Poland, expect England to revert back to type and play the games like rabbits in the headlights. Laugh 
I wouldn't be surprised if it goes down to goal difference at the end.
As for the team. Lets be honest, no matter who they play, its not going to make any significant difference to how they perform. The best England can do for me is to play a young team which at least gives them some experience in playing at a major tournament.

Overall, I'd favour Brazil to win the tournament on home soil. Russia and Colombia are the dark horses for me.

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Post by mystiroakey Sat 07 Dec 2013, 11:46 am

russia have less chance than England mate.

And England have very little

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Post by J.Benson II Sat 07 Dec 2013, 11:59 am

mystiroakey wrote:russia have less chance than England mate.

And England have very little
Not saying Russia win the WC, but I think they could have a good run.
They showed promise in the Euro's despite an early exit, won their tough qualification group fairly easily and have Capello in charge who I think will suit them more then he suited England. Alan Dzagoev is also a real talent.
I can see them winning their group.

I wouldn't rule England out totally either. Once you're out of the group stages, anything can happen with a favourable draw and a bit of luck.

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Post by Guest Sat 07 Dec 2013, 12:05 pm

J.Benson II wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:russia have less chance than England mate.

And England have very little
Not saying Russia win the WC, but I think they could have a good run.
They showed promise in the Euro's despite an early exit
That's Russia all over for me. Technically very good actually but mentally very weak side for me. Showing promise/early exit to Greece in the Euro's picard 



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Post by mystiroakey Sat 07 Dec 2013, 12:13 pm

Yep one of those technically good teams- but little penetration against the top teams..

Not enough class.

Greece the complete reverse- less technical ability but more penetration from direct play

but again not enough class

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