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Froch vs the Next Generation

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eddyfightfan
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Froch vs the Next Generation Empty Froch vs the Next Generation

Post by D4thincarnation Tue 17 May 2011, 9:45 pm

Froch still has a few years left in him. He has his sights set firmly on the Super 6 tournament for now with Glenn Johnson fight coming up next month. The he wants to win the Super 6 and get revenge over Kessler.

All this time the next generation of Groves, DeGale and Cleverely could be progressing through the ranks.
These 3 could all be future opponents of the Cobra.

So how would Froch do against these 3, and when is the tipping point when the trio's abilities will overtake Froch's.

http://www.boxingscene.com/froch-maybe-degale-clev-groves-super-6-kessler--39252

So who beats Froch and when?

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Post by Scottrf Tue 17 May 2011, 9:52 pm

Hard to predict when a boxer will slide, but for the next couple of years Froch would deal with them comfortably. According to an interview with him the other day, following Johnson/Ward, he is looking at a Kessler rematch, Pascal and Whistle Calzaghe.

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Post by Sugar Boy Sweetie Tue 17 May 2011, 10:18 pm

I don't think froch should get too obsessive about avenging the Kessler defeat. Yes it would be nice to beat the only guy to defeat you, but it is generally acknowledged that Kessler isn't what he was and any win for froch that follows a lengthy injury lay off for Kessler will not be given full credit. It's only worth it if Kessler can re-establish himself as a top player in the division.

If DeGale, Groves or Cleverly can win a title and become a well ranked contender in the next 2 years I'd like to think froch would fight one of them, given the noise he made about calzaghe avoiding a big domestic title fight with him. At the moment he has the beating of all of them IMO, it's hard to judge whether that will change until we see how they develop. Groves and Clev would be barnstormers which suit froch, whereas DeGale would be more of a stylistic challenge and could be trickier, although I question whether DeGale has the physical presence to beat a guy like froch. DeGale has said he could fight at 160, whereas froch has spoken about moving up to 175.

Froch should beat Johnson and I think he'll beat ward too. After that there are a lot of options - Kessler, Bute, DeGale, Cleverly, Pascal, maybe even Hopkins. A lot depends on how and what these guys do between now and the S6 finishing. For me Froch is no1 at 168lb (cannot believe the Ring have Ward p4p no9, what a joke), and he has the beating of all the top 175 fighters too.
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Post by 88Chris05 Tue 17 May 2011, 10:30 pm

Would agree with Scott and Sugar Boy; Froch beats the three of them with ease if they were to meet now. Christ, can you imagine what he'd do to Groves, given how wet behind the ears 'St. George' is at the moment?

Two or three years down the line, who knows? Froch has the world at his feet at the moment. He's finally bagged that (long overdue) deal with Sky, he's coming in off the back of a superb performance against Abraham, and providing he gets past Johnson - which I think he will - the road is clear for big and lucrative fights against Ward, Kessler, Bute and possibly even the likes of Pascal again or Cloud at 175 lb, where he's repeatedly said he'll end up.

For that last reason, the only fight I can realistically ever see Froch taking out of the three mentioned would be Cleverly. Regardless of who wins their upcoming bout, I still reckon that both DeGale and Groves are at least twelve to eighteen months away from stepping up to the full world level, by which time I suspect Froch's business at 168 lb may be finished. I personally rate Cleverly a bit higher than a lot of others on here and I'm convinced he'll remain a significant player in the Light-Heavyweight scene for the next few years to come, so here's to a possible British showdown between him and Froch sometime in, say, late 2012 / early 2013.
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Post by azania Tue 17 May 2011, 10:43 pm

In 2-3 years time Froch will be fighting at LHW and soon to retire. I can see him fighting Clev in 3 fights time if promotional issues can be resolved.

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Post by WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs Tue 17 May 2011, 10:49 pm

Froch vs cleverly is a fight I would be willing to pay for. Cleverly is a very good fighter imo and in 18 months time, the time I think a fight could potentially happen, he should be sitting on his punches more and his stamina would have increased. His youth and natural size could give him a verdict over froch who might be slightly slower and has less in the tank. Cleverly is been likened to calzaghe, but I think he will become more like froch. He likes to go toe-to-toe, has a good tank/workload, long powerful jab and a good chin(looks good at first glance).

The problem with these things is if their careers don't take any setbacks. Say froch loses to ward, he then beats Kessler but loses to pascal at LHW. Or that degale has beaten groves, got past steiglitz but has been beaten by bute. Or clev loses to brahmaer. It's too hard to predict but if everyone goes on their expected journeys I see no reason why some of these fights can't happen. Degale will go to LHW imo sometime in his career.

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Post by azania Tue 17 May 2011, 10:52 pm

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:Froch vs cleverly is a fight I would be willing to pay for. Cleverly is a very good fighter imo and in 18 months time, the time I think a fight could potentially happen, he should be sitting on his punches more and his stamina would have increased. His youth and natural size could give him a verdict over froch who might be slightly slower and has less in the tank. Cleverly is been likened to calzaghe, but I think he will become more like froch. He likes to go toe-to-toe, has a good tank/workload, long powerful jab and a good chin(looks good at first glance).

The problem with these things is if their careers don't take any setbacks. Say froch loses to ward, he then beats Kessler but loses to pascal at LHW. Or that degale has beaten groves, got past steiglitz but has been beaten by bute. Or clev loses to brahmaer. It's too hard to predict but if everyone goes on their expected journeys I see no reason why some of these fights can't happen. Degale will go to LHW imo sometime in his career.

What I like about Froch is the manner in which he took his loss. He came back better. Many guys may have capitulated but he didn't. He should give Ward a decent shout and take Ward out of his comfort zone and make him work. Ward should win but it will be close as Froch is one determined and strong minded SOB.

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Post by manos de piedra Tue 17 May 2011, 11:14 pm

Its too difficult to say right now. Alot hinges on the fight with Ward. The difference between winning and losing that is massive for Froch.

If he wins, as the Super 6 champion with a new promoter and more exposure he could really kick on and have plenty of options. On Ringside interestingly he seemed well aware of the likes of Groves and De Gale and didnt rule out a fight with either. You would think if he beat Ward that he might treat himself to a softish defence. His whole career hes never been able to make money the easy way so if he beat Ward he may find himself in a position for the first time of being able to earn some decent money without having to go through the grinder to get it.

Hes talked in the past about a move to light heavy and possible rematch with Pascal. Im not even sure Pascal will be champ then. If Cleverly has manged to win a title and establish himself there then I think that could be a potential fight in 18 months - 2 years.

The loser of Groves/DeGale will probably have to take a step back for a while and I cant see either fighter being matched with Froch anytime soon from their respective promoters. The only way the fight hapens is if one of the promters decides to take a huge gamble.


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Post by azania Tue 17 May 2011, 11:17 pm

manos de piedra wrote:Its too difficult to say right now. Alot hinges on the fight with Ward. The difference between winning and losing that is massive for Froch.

If he wins, as the Super 6 champion with a new promoter and more exposure he could really kick on and have plenty of options. On Ringside interestingly he seemed well aware of the likes of Groves and De Gale and didnt rule out a fight with either. You would think if he beat Ward that he might treat himself to a softish defence. His whole career hes never been able to make money the easy way so if he beat Ward he may find himself in a position for the first time of being able to earn some decent money without having to go through the grinder to get it.

Hes talked in the past about a move to light heavy and possible rematch with Pascal. Im not even sure Pascal will be champ then. If Cleverly has manged to win a title and establish himself there then I think that could be a potential fight in 18 months - 2 years.

The loser of Groves/DeGale will probably have to take a step back for a while and I cant see either fighter being matched with Froch anytime soon from their respective promoters. The only way the fight hapens is if one of the promters decides to take a huge gamble.


I dont think losing to Ward will harm him too much. The manner of his defeat will though. If he gets schooled and comprehensively beaten it may affect his confidence and thus marketability.

I believe he will move up as soon as he loses and cite weight as a reason. Lets not look past Glen though.

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Post by D4thincarnation Tue 17 May 2011, 11:24 pm

I think if one of them called him out next year and he no fight lined up he would have to fight them, after all the trouble he gave Calzaghe.

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Post by manos de piedra Tue 17 May 2011, 11:58 pm

azania wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:Its too difficult to say right now. Alot hinges on the fight with Ward. The difference between winning and losing that is massive for Froch.

If he wins, as the Super 6 champion with a new promoter and more exposure he could really kick on and have plenty of options. On Ringside interestingly he seemed well aware of the likes of Groves and De Gale and didnt rule out a fight with either. You would think if he beat Ward that he might treat himself to a softish defence. His whole career hes never been able to make money the easy way so if he beat Ward he may find himself in a position for the first time of being able to earn some decent money without having to go through the grinder to get it.

Hes talked in the past about a move to light heavy and possible rematch with Pascal. Im not even sure Pascal will be champ then. If Cleverly has manged to win a title and establish himself there then I think that could be a potential fight in 18 months - 2 years.

The loser of Groves/DeGale will probably have to take a step back for a while and I cant see either fighter being matched with Froch anytime soon from their respective promoters. The only way the fight hapens is if one of the promters decides to take a huge gamble.


I dont think losing to Ward will harm him too much. The manner of his defeat will though. If he gets schooled and comprehensively beaten it may affect his confidence and thus marketability.

I believe he will move up as soon as he loses and cite weight as a reason. Lets not look past Glen though.

Im not sure, I think a loss to Ward will be a damaging defeat to his overall legacy. Ward will have proved he was the best SMW while Froch was active and Froch would arguably have lost to his two best opponents. Froch would still have options, but the difference in status in terms of financial power and overall legacy would be enormous.

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Post by azania Wed 18 May 2011, 12:04 am

I believe he will lost to Ward. He is expected to lose anyway. But that he has fought all comers is credit to him. Importantly it will be the manner of his defeat. If he loses in an exciting fight, his stock will rise greately and his earning power will also increase. Similarly with Maidana.

People see Ward as a slick but boring fighter. A little like Floyd but without the attitude.

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Post by Michaels, Sean Wed 18 May 2011, 8:30 am

azania wrote:I believe he will lost to Ward. He is expected to lose anyway. But that he has fought all comers is credit to him. Importantly it will be the manner of his defeat. If he loses in an exciting fight, his stock will rise greately and his earning power will also increase. Similarly with Maidana.

People see Ward as a slick but boring fighter. A little like Floyd but without the attitude.

I think Ward may come unstuck against Froch. In his own words he doesn't like being hit. I don't see how he will get away with that over 12 rounds with Froch. I actually see Ward quitting this one in the 9th / 10th. Ahead on points at the time.

Just throwing this out there. Did the Froch victory take more out of Kessler than the Calzaghe defeat. He was quite clearly beaten up after the fight and took a brief hiatus from the sport citing injury.
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Post by coxy0001 Wed 18 May 2011, 9:20 am

For me personally i'm casting all objectiveness aside and hoping that Froch does a job on Ward. For me the latter fouled his way to wins over Kessler and co, with Abes being a cleaner performance due in part to the latters refusal to engage post 3rd round etc.

Yet the American press is purring over him... Personally i don't see it and think it's a disgrace he's had 3 home fights when he's fought 2 overseas oppo. Don't see the fuss, don't see the hype and i most certainly do not like his fighting style and most certainly do not like how he constantly gets away with nutthing the noggin off the other guy.

Plus there's nothing wrong with backing your own, he (should be) in a final after all. Seems like a nice guy as well. And his mrs would get it.

Ward appears to be a nice guy, don't get me wrong. Just don't like the overhype nature of his wins, at least our media lot would always say Hatton got away with stuff and the fight was the usual rough and rugged affair.... Reading the American press would make you think he's cleaner than SRL etc!

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Post by Fists of Fury Wed 18 May 2011, 9:23 am

Yeah Froch comes across as a top bloke, really hope he hammers Ward (assuming he gets by Johnson, which he should). I just love the fact that there are a couple of Brits in and around the pinnacle of their division at the moment, it is rather refreshing. And his mrs would indeed get it.

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Post by Valero's Conscience Wed 18 May 2011, 10:57 am

Agree with general consensus above that Froch would beat them all if they fought now and with some ease IMO.

It's near on impossible to judge how Groves and Degale would do against Froch if they were in their perspective primes and they are so green. I mean if you showed me a few clips of Froch after 10 fights and asked how he would do against other top SMW, you wouldn't have a clue or maybe say he'd lose, it's just too hard to judge.

I think Groves would always have trouble against Froch but Degale has the real potential to maybe outbox him in a few years.

Cleverly would never have the power to trouble Froch in the slightest IMO and if he improved dramatically he would only be able to win by taking it he distance. In fact I couldn't see any of them ever stopping Froch.

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Post by samevans1 Wed 18 May 2011, 11:06 am

I think none of these fights will ever happen because Froch is in a position where, if he wins his next two fights; he could be one of the biggest stars in the sport.

He is 33 and i don't think he will have that many fights after Johnson and Ward. I would imagaine he would fight Bute, followed by the winner of Pacal-Hopkins and that would be pretty much it.

So lets's say that's 18-24 months down the line. De Gale or Cleverley would have to be an established world champion byt then for the fight to happen. Which is possible, but makes it somewhat unlikely.

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Post by OasisBFC Wed 18 May 2011, 11:44 am

froch has said a fight with degale or groves winner would be interesting - but he's already said he has no interest in actually fighting them.

he has a clear plan - beat johnson/ward, beat kessler in a rematch which still haunts him then move up and face pascal.

this could all change if he loses to any of those.
plus pascal may not be LHW champ for much longer.


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Post by samevans1 Wed 18 May 2011, 11:52 am

I favour Hopkins to beat Pascal, but wouldn't count the younger man out.

Either way, if Froch wins the super six, he is entitled to only seek the biggest fights in his division.

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Post by eddyfightfan Thu 19 May 2011, 7:24 am

i'd like to see a kessler rematch- think he was outright robbed last time.

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Post by samevans1 Fri 20 May 2011, 7:57 am

I don't think a Kessler rematch will ever happen. I'm not sure Kessler will ever get to that level again.

I believe Froch wants Ward, Bute, Pascal/Hopkins winner, then out. Of course, if Kesller gets himself back and active, then it could easily happen.

I do strongly think that should Froch get through the 3 fights I mentioned as winner; he has to go down as one of the greatest British fighters of all time.

I don't agree that the Kessler fight was a robbery; it was extremely close. You could make a case for either man winning by a point or two, depending on what you look for in your fighters.

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Post by Sugar Boy Sweetie Fri 20 May 2011, 8:25 am

samevans1: I don't agree that the Kessler fight was a robbery; it was extremely close. You could make a case for either man winning by a point or two, depending on what you look for in your fighters.
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It wasn't a robbery, froch let the fight get away from him in the middle rounds by not pressing Kessler enough. It was a good, close fight but to me Kessler clearly won by a couple of rounds. Think froch had a hard time accepting it and came out with all sorts of excuses which is why he's determined to go down the rematch route - which to me is a waste of time if kesslers been out for ages and slipped down the rankings. Beating up an inactive, past it fighter just to put the record straight in your own head proves nothing. There are better fights out there for froch such as bute which he'd win easily and would get far more recognition for.
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Post by wow_junky Fri 20 May 2011, 8:40 am

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:samevans1: I don't agree that the Kessler fight was a robbery; it was extremely close. You could make a case for either man winning by a point or two, depending on what you look for in your fighters.
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It wasn't a robbery, froch let the fight get away from him in the middle rounds by not pressing Kessler enough. It was a good, close fight but to me Kessler clearly won by a couple of rounds. Think froch had a hard time accepting it and came out with all sorts of excuses which is why he's determined to go down the rematch route - which to me is a waste of time if kesslers been out for ages and slipped down the rankings. Beating up an inactive, past it fighter just to put the record straight in your own head proves nothing. There are better fights out there for froch such as bute which he'd win easily and would get far more recognition for.

Kessler is likely to fight Bute in the autumn, so if that fight goes ahead and Kessler wins, it makes a Froch-Kessler rematch much more viable.

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Post by joeyjojo618 Fri 20 May 2011, 9:17 am

I seem to remember that when the final bell went Froch asked his corner whether he had done enough, so I dont think he really believes the Kessler fight was a robbery.

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Post by samevans1 Fri 20 May 2011, 10:46 am

It was a very close fight; I have no grip with anyone who sees it one way or the other.

I would back Froch to win a rematch though, as I think he got his tactics wrong in the first fight.

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Post by joeyjojo618 Fri 20 May 2011, 10:52 am

I think he could have stopped kessler if he stepped up his work rate. It was frustrating to watch, although a good fight.

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Post by bhb001 Fri 20 May 2011, 12:34 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if Froch pulled on Cleverley what Calzaghe pulled on him i.e. Why should I give him a payday when there are more financially viable international stars out there.

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Post by aja424 Wed 25 May 2011, 8:46 am

The only difference being that he will fight one of the more financially attractive fighters who are in their a prime.

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