Australia v England: 2nd ODI, Brisbane

First topic message reminder :

Australia:
DA Warner, AJ Finch, SE Marsh, MJ Clarke*, GJ Bailey, GJ Maxwell, BJ Haddin†, MG Johnson, JP Faulkner, NM Coulter-Nile, CJ McKay

England:
AN Cook*, IR Bell, JE Root, GS Ballance, EJG Morgan, RS Bopara, JC Buttler†, BA Stokes, TT Bresnan, CJ Jordan, WB Rankin

If England loses this...

Last ball of penultimate over goes for a single - possibly more valuable to Australia than a six ....

12 to win, Faulker hitting back to England

All up to Trundler Tim   

Two more big hits will bury England again...

Four over the keeper's head...

They can't lose.

I'm not a fan of ODI, and innings' of this sort are easier to replicate under the few dispensation, but Faulkner is playing one for the ages!!

Somehow England have lost. I think if you offered them the chance to go home now theyd snap your hand off

Wow, that was pretty special. Such clean hitting from Faulkner. A record run chase too.

  

Commiserations guys. England played very well and it was such a cruel way to lose.

Just WOW.

Hats off to Faulkner   

But that had no right to happen. Poor Cookie must be wondering why he didn't take up golf...

If you want to be mean , you would have a go at Stokes ; but really it just seems that Australia can't really miss whatever they do.

Great match , but I am gutted . Or as gutted as I can be over a disposable ODI   

Linebreaker wrote:Wow, that was pretty special. Such clean hitting from Faulkner. A record run chase too.

  

Commiserations guys. England played very well and it was such a cruel way to lose.

It was written.  

England just keep finding ways to lose. Sooner this tour ends the better from an England perspective

Shocking, shocking, shocking. I am done with this tour, I am not even going to bother following the final 3 pummellings

Enormous credit to Faulkner. As GSC suggests, surely leaves England desperately wanting the plane home ...

Great innings from Faulker mind, absolute worldie. The way this series has gone, you almost knew it was coming.

Credit to England, lesser teams wouldve mailed it in by this point. May be the straw that breaks the camels back though

We may not get many wins, but I do enjoy a good laugh.

Well done Australia, particularly Faulkner.

guildfordbat wrote:Enormous credit to Faulkner. As GSC suggests, surely leaves England desperately wanting the plane home ...

Some of them , I guess. The ODI specialists , however will be bitterly disappointed but itching to get back out there on Sunday having come so close.

To put it in perspective , this was a basically meaningless fifty over match whose main import is as a proving ground for aspirants for the next World Cup. Some enhanced their stocks.

Gutting for the fans , yes. But looking at it from the players' viewpoint the result is not everything.

And you can't deny it was exciting !

Returning to this after a stiff drink   

Firstly congrats to Aussies , especially Faulkner. Winning confidence helps , I guess - it wouldn't have been any disaster for them to lose , so they were able to bat with a lot of freedom. And - just - enough to win. But England shouldn't feel too bad - they did everything but win , and proved they can compete in this format despite all the rough times they've had on this tour.

Looking forward : the batting generally worked today. Root failed again - to a marginal lbw , which is always given not out when you are in form. Cook actually played OK with Bell and the start was quite a decent one ; and of course Bell went on well , and Morgan was awesome. (Hope he isn't joining the injured list !). Buttler impressed again.
The bowling less so : I like what I see of Jordan. Still a bit raw , but he is lively and combative. Keep him.
Rankin has to go. Some better stuff today , but again he couldn't complete his job... Broad is back anyway.
Stokes a bit poor again with the ball. Maybe time for Woakes in Sydney ? Or Tredwell , if England still want the full batting list.

In the long term , I suspect it will be one of Stokes Bresnan or Woakes in the ODI team ; along with Broad , Anderson, perhaps Jordan , Tredwell or another spinner , plus Bopara. Batting will depend on the KP situation ; but there is going to be some competition for spots. If Cook doesn't get his mojo back in the summer it may be that the ODI captaincy will pass to ...Morgan perhaps ? He , along with Bell , Buttler , and arguably Bopara (!) are the most likely to be assured of a top seven spot in the order going forward.
I am disappointed to lose today ; but encouraged somewhat by the performances. Get the regulars back , refreshed ; blend with some of this new talent , and England could yet send a decent team back here next year for the World Cup.

I'd keep Stokes. Games in an England shirt can't hurt him going forward.

I'd be tempted to rest Cook. Think he needs time off after this tour.

Alfie - following your latest posts, I think things can be looked at two ways by England.

One - we're as good as Australia at this one day stuff and with a bit of luck in the closing overs would have won.

Or

Two - even when we do play well, we still end up losing.

I can understand many supporters opting for the second alternative right now. I would expect the professional players - being exactly that - to adopt the first mindset although it still might not be easy for some.

As during the first ODI, I remain concerned that in our selection we are not allowing ourselves enough bowling options. Yes, Root bowled well and effectively today. However, he still wasn't trusted with his tenth over and rightly so imo - I would have taken him off a bit sooner. Although Bopara was tidy, he had the advantage of largely bowling when Australia needed to ensure they didn't lose further wickets. Felt that rather flattered his stats - I certainly wouldn't want to see him coming on second change with Australia 60/0 off 10.

Sure, get a few overs bowled by Root and / or Bopara if the need or opportunity arises but regard them as 'bonus' overs with just possibly 'bonus' wickets. I would like to see 5 bowlers selected that we can reasonably look to for bowling 10 overs each. Then if the wheels seem that they might come come off one of them, look to use Root or Bopara so that particular bowler doesn't have to bowl his full allocation. If we are expecting 10 overs at outset from a Root / Bopara combination, that is leaving us imo precious little leeway - and that's without going into the frailties of Rankin!

guildfordbat wrote:Alfie - following your latest posts, I think things can be looked at two ways by England.

One - we're as good as Australia at this one day stuff and with a bit of luck in the closing overs would have won.

Or

Two - even when we do play well, we still end up losing.

I can understand many supporters opting for the second alternative right now. I would expect the professional players - being exactly that - to adopt the first mindset although it still might not be easy for some.

As during the first ODI, I remain concerned that in our selection we are not allowing ourselves enough bowling options. Yes, Root bowled well and effectively today. However, he still wasn't trusted with his tenth over and rightly so imo - I would have taken him off a bit sooner. Although Bopara was tidy, he had the advantage of largely bowling when Australia needed to ensure they didn't lose further wickets. Felt that rather flattered his stats - I certainly wouldn't want to see him coming on second change with Australia 60/0 off 10.

Sure, get a few overs bowled by Root and / or Bopara if the need or opportunity arises but regard them as 'bonus' overs with just possibly 'bonus' wickets. I would like to see 5 bowlers selected that we can reasonably look to for bowling 10 overs each. Then if the wheels seem that they might come come off one of them, look to use Root or Bopara so that particular bowler doesn't have to bowl his full allocation. If we are expecting 10 overs at outset from a Root / Bopara combination, that is leaving us imo precious little leeway - and that's without going into the frailties of Rankin!

Agree with your points on the bowling Guildford.
While he did bowl quite well today I'd rather see Tredwell in the team instead of Root, It's not as if Root is a major contributor with the bat at the moment.

Well, when I left the TV, England were making the Australian batting struggle at 120-4. They continued to get wickets and should have won this game but for James Faulkner. Like Steven Smith, Faulkner is one of my favorite Australian playesr and I am happy it was he who won the game for them.

Hats off to James Faulkner - this is One Day (50 - 50) cricket at its best.

A very tough loss for England given the context - but England should be aiming to get this close every time. It seems that it is Australia that is able to dig deep when the circumstances demand it in this series - and they have enough quality in their squad for someone to turn up when needed.

GSC wrote:England just keep finding ways to lose. Sooner this tour ends the better from an England perspective

 My view is that this was a great match.  It is only in context of what has happened before that makes it so disappointing.   That is don't turn off because of this close loss - turn off when England get well beaten / thrashed .

England's stubborn selections proved stupid yet again. Not playing Tredwell was not a smart move and they did miss a proper spinner though Root did a decent job. But playing Rankin, who is not fit enough for international cricket was downright irresponsible. Whosoever selected him (don't tell me it was KP?) should be asked some tough questions. Rankin, a bowler with a long injury history from his Ireland days itself, played 3 international games for England in this tour, and in each of those games, his fitness let him and his side down badly. But the way things have gone, I don't expect any meaningful questions being asked of Giles, Flower or even Cook.

I had this thought and is increasingly developing......Faulkner is the next Klusener

msp83 wrote:

... Rankin ... Whosoever selected him (don't tell me it was KP?) ...

  Whatever anyone's views on Flower and Pietersen, that's very neat.

KP_fan wrote:I had this thought and is increasingly developing......Faulkner is the next Klusener

Probably the same person that insisted it was morally wrong not to give a player 3 games minimum   

Meh just the way things are going at the minute, well played Faulkner!

Good to see Morgs batting like he used to, don't think I've seen many as good as him at just seamlessly going through the gears. Also thought buttler's innings was a good one, he showed he's not merely just a slogger, he worked the field well and picked up many twos.

Fairly obvious Root needs to be dropped for the next one tho

alfie wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:Enormous credit to Faulkner. As GSC suggests, surely leaves England desperately wanting the plane home ...

Gutting for the fans , yes.  But looking at it from the players' viewpoint the result is not everything.

And you can't deny it was exciting !

The Australian fans loved it!

Probably one of the best; if not, the best ODI match between Oz and England.  

The only reason Rankin is in the team is because of Ashley Giles Warwickshire bias.

He hasn't bowled well yet
He gets injured every game
He's Irish

Apart from that....

He was England's best bowler in the home ODI series a few months back?

Linebreaker wrote:At last some positive energy from England and good to see Root with a spring in his step.
Hopefully if England win (which I'm almost certain they will) it will make for a much more interesting series over the last 3 games.

Three good innings in Ten tests............Can't score a run in the one days...........and It's good to see him with a "spring in his step...."..

A lot of people have a lot of faith in this guy..........At the moment he's the equivalent of a sporting Bernie Madoff.........

Lots of so called promise (Lord knows why!!) and no delivery........

Poor old Carberry gets slated.......The double standards on here is amazing........."Carberry doesn't have it at test level for me".......Geez..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:At last some positive energy from England and good to see Root with a spring in his step.
Hopefully if England win (which I'm almost certain they will) it will make for a much more interesting series over the last 3 games.

Three good innings in Ten tests............Can't score a run in the one days...........and It's good to see him with a "spring in his step...."..

A lot of people have a lot of faith in this guy..........At the moment he's the equivalent of a sporting Bernie Madoff.........

Lots of so called promise (Lord knows why!!) and no delivery........

Poor old Carberry gets slated.......The double standards on here is amazing........."Carberry doesn't have it at test level for me".......Geez..

Root before coming to aus:

91 runs without getting out at a rate if 180 in international t20s,
Odi average in the 50s at 80
A test average in the 40s

Added to which he's a handy bowling option.

No idea why people tought he had promise.


Look back at some if his big innings and he looked every in an international cricketer. He price he could play at any tempo ( people really questioned his selection for t20) and did well in pressure situations.
All the hall marks of a player comfortable at international level.

What the hell has happened to him is the question now, and does he hav the ability to fix his brain and get his mojo back?

Or is he the English Phil Hughes?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:At last some positive energy from England and good to see Root with a spring in his step.
Hopefully if England win (which I'm almost certain they will) it will make for a much more interesting series over the last 3 games.

Three good innings in Ten tests............Can't score a run in the one days...........and It's good to see him with a "spring in his step...."..

A lot of people have a lot of faith in this guy..........At the moment he's the equivalent of a sporting Bernie Madoff.........

Lots of so called promise (Lord knows why!!) and no delivery........

Poor old Carberry gets slated.......The double standards on here is amazing........."Carberry doesn't have it at test level for me".......Geez..

I was just trying to be a little polite, Truss. Didn't say I had a lot of faith in him. Nor did I diss out on Carberry.  

It's a delicate line on here as you know.  

So mate... who's gonna make it to the Superbowl?
I picked a win for Denver and the 49ers. Would be nice to see the Seahawks get to the Big One though, I guess...  

Mike Selig wrote:He was England's best bowler in the home ODI series a few months back?

Are we talking root or rankin here?


There's a good interview with Thorpe doin the rounds at the minute where he mentions they wanted to get a good look at certain players abilities to face up to playing international cricket away from home, I think as ell there's been an element of wanting to set a tone of " we don't care about the tests forget the tests move on" and see if they can rejuvenate these players who undoubtably have ability.
Bell seems to have got his act together, cook root and rankin still haven't.

From what Thorpe said its deemed they've seen enough to know who has taken their chance to prove themselves. With broad back you could colour me amazed if rankin gets another game on this tour, and quite possibly this may be it for him.
Would Ireland take him back?

We are likely to see a specialist spinner too and a change in how the bowlers are used and how they go about the death overs.

As for root well double standards do we apply that to cook as well who can't bowl?
One if them has to go you'd think, it's crippling England starting two down.
Again a Thorpe says the real key whoever they select and however they play is the players playing at or near their best and actually producing decent returns.
It's hard I turn it around when almost your entire squad is off colour.

Pete, I reckon Guildford makes the right comment here:

guildfordbat wrote:Alfie - following your latest posts, I think things can be looked at two ways by England.

One - we're as good as Australia at this one day stuff and with a bit of luck in the closing overs would have won.

Or

Two - even when we do play well, we still end up losing.

Either way, I don't think England are that far away from a win. The results do look harsh but they were very close to levelling this ODI series 1-1.

Tests are a different matter - but there too, I think when England get home, properly evaluate this last series (hard to do when you are still here in a state of shock!), decide on the "new team core" (not too much change wherever possible and commit to say Root, Bairstow? and Stokes) and then get a win at home - then the confidence will return. It's one of those painful situations where the team has to bide their time until then, freshen up physically and mentally, work on certain elements of their game (tweak technique & approach) and build their cohesion as a team... whatever that team may be.

Of course I'm talking in a perfect world scenario which is probably being a little idealistic and simplifying things. The elephant in the room is no doubt the machinery of the team as a whole and importantly - including the management and specialist coaching/support staff. That is where I feel things might get a little cloudy. Easy to say (or suggest) but harder to do: but now is the time the cut away the dead wood (certain staff) so they can recover more quickly. Commit to a few (say 3) simple goals. A bit like Australia had to do.... and you don't want to take 2-3 years getting the ship moving in the right direction again.

Rankin won't be able to play again for Ireland for another 4 years. Not that I'd want him back if I were Irish anyway. They seem to be doing fine without players whose stated ultimate ambition is to play for another country...

I was just pointing out that he was England's best bowler at home against Aus in the last batch of ODIs. That would explain why he was picked in the first couple of games. Agree that that should probably be that.

Cook needs to go frankly.

Cook needs a break.

Well...so do all of the England cricket team actually.

Don't worry lads - only 6 ODIs, 6 T20s, three different continents, and a World Cup to go! Then you can come back home. #punishment