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New Zealand v India 4th ODI, Hamilton

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Post by msp83 Mon 27 Jan 2014, 2:13 pm

After the exciting tie in the last game , the series is still alive. It moves to Hamilton for the 4th game.
India may not change the combination that tied the last game. It remains to be seen whether Kyle Mills might return to the side on a slowish track where his cutters could be handy. But the way Hamish Bennett troubled the Indian batsmen in the last game, that will be a very difficult call for Brendon McCullum.

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Post by msp83 Mon 27 Jan 2014, 2:14 pm

Suresh Raina scored just the 1 half-century in his last 30 innings, and that came against the might of Zimbabwe!.

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Post by Guest Mon 27 Jan 2014, 6:27 pm

i will be getting up for the game tonight, as i haven't got to go to work tomorrow.

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Post by Gerry SA Tue 28 Jan 2014, 12:48 am

India finally take the bull by the horns and have dropped Suresh Raina. Stuart Binny earns his maiden international cap. 

But more interestingly Golden Boy Shikhar Dhawan also gets the boot and Ambati Rayadu replaces him. 

Kohli is stated to open. India are batting first. 

The Black Caps also make two changes. Corey Anderson is replaced by Jimmy Neesham and Mitchell McClenaghan is replaced by Kyle Mills.

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Post by msp83 Tue 28 Jan 2014, 5:57 am

India posted 278-5 in their 50 overs. Rohit Sharma, dropped on 14 by Ross Taylor, went on to score a crucial 79 that should see him play another 100 ODIs for India even if he does nothing. Hopefully this is a knock similar to his 82 against England last year rather than the countless false starts he has had over a 7 year career, but not betting my house on it........! Skipper Mahendra Singh Dhoni yet again showed he's a great of the ODI game, scoring an unbeaten 79. and Ravindra Jadeja's newfound confidence was reflected in another unbeaten half-century. Dhoni and Jadeja put together an unbeaten 127 for the 6th wicket to rescue the Indian innings from trouble at 151-5. Ravicnandran Ashwin was promoted to 6 but this time it didn't work as he was out for 5, but I feel its an experiment worth continuing. Stuart Binny didn't have a chance to impress with the bat in his debut game. Ambati Rayudu made 37 at 4.

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Post by msp83 Tue 28 Jan 2014, 6:01 am

After the New Zealand openers put on a 54 run partnership, they both departed in successive overs. Ryder played on to Aaron in his first over for 19, and Guptill became the first LBW victim in the series as Shami got him plumb in front for 35. Kane Williamson and Ross Taylor at the crease. NZ 64-2 after 10.

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Post by msp83 Tue 28 Jan 2014, 6:17 am

New Zealand 82-2 after 16 overs. The ball is turning and gripping for Jadeja and Ashwin. But New Zealand have their 2 best players of spin at the crease in Taylor and Williamson.

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Post by msp83 Tue 28 Jan 2014, 6:50 am

The 2 spinners so far in their combined 10 overs have gone for only 30. But all the seamers are bowling rubbish to give away the advantage. Kumar, Shami and Binny all are going above 6 an over and Varun Aaron is also nearly there. Taylor and Williamson have survived the test spells from Jadeja and Ashwin, and if they stay together a bit longer, this game will be gone very quickly from the Indians.

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Post by msp83 Tue 28 Jan 2014, 7:09 am

The Indian seamers being a massive let down here. They are offering no control whatsoever and they aren't taking wickets either. Taylor and Williamson are walking this at the moment. New Zealand 158-2 after 29.

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Post by msp83 Tue 28 Jan 2014, 7:20 am

NZ 173-2 after 32. Williamson and Taylor very well set. The Indian spinners are bowling OK, but NZ are in supreme control of the game at this stage.

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Post by msp83 Tue 28 Jan 2014, 7:29 am

A fine bit of fielding from Ravindra Jadeja of his own bowling has Kane Williamson run-out. Jadeja needed to produce a direct hit and he did, and KW goes after yet another half-century. NZ 188-3. This might have come a touch too late for India though.

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Post by Biltong Tue 28 Jan 2014, 7:35 am

I have to admit that the BCCI makes it easy for me to support any team they pay against.

GO BLACK CAPS, NAIL THESE GREEDY AND POWER HUNGRY INDIANS.  New Zealand v India 4th ODI, Hamilton 3933776953 
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Post by Pal Joey Tue 28 Jan 2014, 8:04 am

Kiwis are my 2nd team so I always enjoy seeing them perform well.
Nothing against Indian players though. It's not their fault that BCCI does what it does. Same for all the other teams.

Taylor bangs one over the fence for his 100.

240/3 after 43 overs. So NZ only need 39 runs from 42, India need wickets.
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Post by Biltong Tue 28 Jan 2014, 8:05 am

True, it isn't the players' fault, but they represent the BCCI. Wink
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Post by Pal Joey Tue 28 Jan 2014, 8:18 am

That very slow start - India were something like 48/2 after 15 overs - probably made the total at least 20-30 runs short on this pitch. Thanks to Sharma (who took a while to get going) and then Dhoni and Jadeja who made the final score look more respectable.

The Indian bowling simply lacks penetration on these pitches. The ball coming onto the bat nicely and it's only a matter of sitting out the more dangerous Jadeja and Ashwin and then scoring freely off the rest of the more ineffectual bowling.
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 28 Jan 2014, 8:22 am

I see Rahanae has been affected by the mumbo jumbo of the armchair selectors Wink

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Post by Pal Joey Tue 28 Jan 2014, 8:23 am

ha... comical stuff in the field. Pressure getting to the Indians and a couple of bloopers in consecutive balls.
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Post by Pal Joey Tue 28 Jan 2014, 8:25 am

Well done Black Caps.  clap 

That's the Series. 3-0 up now and only one game to go.
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Post by Biltong Tue 28 Jan 2014, 8:26 am

Great job NZ, well done
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Post by msp83 Tue 28 Jan 2014, 8:42 am

The most comfortable win of the series so far, and with that New Zealand take the series 3-0. Ross Taylor with a match winning ton on a track that had some life for the spinner. Kane Williamson as consistent as ever and the skipper found form at the right moment. A 7 wicket win for NZ.
Pretty poor effort from the Indian seamers, no backing up for the 2 spinners whatsoever. And Jadeja and Ashwin not able to produce anything special either.

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Post by Guest Tue 28 Jan 2014, 8:45 am

Ashwin at 6..... really?

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Post by msp83 Tue 28 Jan 2014, 8:47 am

Sri Lanka 248-1, Silva has brought up his ton, Sangakkara on the way to his. An innings win for Lanka looks on the cards already.
Bangladesh didn't need to play their worst game in more than a year when the BullyBoy club want to ruin their test future.......

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Post by Guest Tue 28 Jan 2014, 9:26 am

huh....wrong thread?

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Post by msp83 Tue 28 Jan 2014, 2:46 pm

CF wrote:huh....wrong thread?
Yeah, got it all messed up. Just like the Indian seamers!!.

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Post by msp83 Tue 28 Jan 2014, 2:47 pm

The Indian skipper strongly criticized his seam bowlers after they let the side down ones again. Dhoni said that he's not sure about the seam bowling unit at all.

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Post by msp83 Tue 28 Jan 2014, 2:51 pm

A very underwhelming debut from Stuart Binny. He wasn't trusted to bat in the top 6, he wasn't trusted beyond an ordinary first over in which he gave away 8 runs. Perhaps Dhoni could have given him a few more overs, but the concerns some of us expressed regarding this selection doesn't seem to go away with the way he went about or for that matter the way the skipper dealt with him.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 28 Jan 2014, 2:57 pm

Ok so bunny was a terrible idea and it turns out that cricinfos description of Aaron was written by his mum and not anyone whos actually seen verified independent measurements of his pace as suspected.
But dohni has to look beyond that for why this side has failed on the tour, or just bring back sharma like they usually do.


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Post by msp83 Tue 28 Jan 2014, 3:33 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Ok so bunny was a terrible idea and it turns out that cricinfos description of Aaron was written by his mum and not anyone whos actually seen verified independent measurements of his pace as suspected.
But dohni has to look beyond that for why this side has failed on the tour, or just bring back sharma like they usually do.
Ishant has to be very close to a return each time he's dropped, as the others almost always make up for his absence and the opposition won't really miss him at all.

PSW, Aaron used to be quicker than what he produced in these couple of games. He hasn't been any quicker than Shami in these 2 games. He hasn't able to reach the peak of his pace, and he isn't getting his direction right either, so they have to surely give Ishwar Pandey a chance in the next game. Pandey could even come in for Bhuvneshwar Kumar, who hasn't been able to do well since South Africa.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 28 Jan 2014, 3:49 pm

PSW, Aaron used to be quicker than what he produced in these couple of games. He hasn't been any quicker than Shami in these 2 games.


See I keep hearing this. But all the times hes been measured hes only been Broad paced at best.

Maybe Andy Flowers got to him?

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Post by msp83 Tue 28 Jan 2014, 4:49 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
PSW, Aaron used to be quicker than what he produced in these couple of games. He hasn't been any quicker than Shami in these 2 games.


See I keep hearing this. But all the times hes been measured hes only been Broad paced at best.

Maybe Andy Flowers got to him?

His run-up is OK!!.
Perhaps it is KP, they play for the same IPL team!.

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Post by GloriousEmpire Tue 28 Jan 2014, 4:50 pm

So NZ have now beaten England, India and South Africa in ODI series in the space of 12 months.

Hmmm...perhaps NZ should start a self-appointed council along with Bagladesh and The Netherlands to seize control of the ICC?

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Post by Guest Tue 28 Jan 2014, 6:06 pm

What was Binny's role in this game?

On debut, for some reason Ashwin took his batting slot, and then he only got to bowl one over..

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Post by GloriousEmpire Tue 28 Jan 2014, 6:09 pm

He was left out by the selectors overnight and then collected early on.

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Post by msp83 Tue 28 Jan 2014, 6:21 pm

CF wrote:What was Binny's role in this game?

On debut, for some reason Ashwin took his batting slot, and then he only got to bowl one over..Ashwin batting at 6 is not a bad thing at all. I would say that he should be given a fair run at 5. Ashwin can certainly bat, and do it like a batsman. His batting technique is quite decent, and he justified his promotion above Ravindra Jadeja in the last game, though in the company of Jadeja himself. The way Ashwin's been bowling in recent times, India will have to take full value out of his batting abilities to provide balance to the side and optimize Ashwin's own overall output. I am not sure Binny is much better as a top 5/6 bet. Don't think he has an organized defensive game. A bit harsh to judge him on just the one over, but he didn't do anything in that over to demand another one....... Hopefully he would get another opportunity in the next game.

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Post by ShankyCricket Tue 28 Jan 2014, 6:48 pm

4 single digit scores in his last 5 consecutive ODI innings for everyone's lovechild Rahane. But apparently a bloke who averaged 50 last year and has scored 100 runs more in this series is a bigger problem.

Not that I think either should be in the side but the double standards never cease to amaze me.

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Post by KP_fan Wed 29 Jan 2014, 7:53 am

To me it seemed like Dhoni made all the changes unwillingly under the pressure of selectors..so:

1) Binny a specialist middle order batsman sees bowlers like Ashwin batting ahead of him...and gets only an over

2) The best number 3 in the world Kohli is removed from his slot and sent up to open.....wasting the No.3 as well as No.1 slot....especially given that Rahane is in the 11

3) Rohit the one who should have been dropped, instead got to play and Dhawan got the axe.

It was like Dhoni implicitly telling the selectors...you can take a horse to water but can't make it drink
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Post by msp83 Wed 29 Jan 2014, 8:00 am

ShankyCricket wrote:4 single digit scores in his last 5 consecutive ODI innings for everyone's lovechild Rahane. But apparently a bloke who averaged 50 last year and has scored 100 runs more in this series is a bigger problem.

Not that I think either should be in the side but the double standards never cease to amaze me.
Rahane has 4 single digit scores in his last 5 games, but not a run of 5 ODIs lets not forget.
Non-performance is not acceptable from anyone including Rahane. But the Guy Who Averaged 50 Last Year had a pattern of 4 decent performances out of 40 before last year, and he got a lot more than a fair share of chances. That's where the difference. If Rahane is not dropped for the next game, this will be the first full series he gets after 2011.
While it's up to Rahane to take the opportunities that comes his way, the comparison with the pampered boy is not fair at all.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 29 Jan 2014, 8:27 am

KP_fan wrote:To me it seemed like Dhoni made all the changes unwillingly under the pressure of selectors..so:

1) Binny a specialist middle order batsman sees bowlers like Ashwin batting ahead of him...and gets only an over

2) The best number 3 in the world Kohli is removed from his slot and sent up to open.....wasting the No.3 as well as No.1 slot....especially given that Rahane is in the 11

3) Rohit the one who should have been dropped, instead got to play and Dhawan got the axe.

It was like Dhoni implicitly telling the selectors...you can take a horse to water but can't make it drink

1) Is Binny actually a specialist middle order batsman? His actual batting record says not, either that or hes just not a very good one. Hes only passed 50 3 times in List A games. Jadeja has a far superior batting record in this format.
Ashwin Batting at 56 though was just odd. It needs to be accepted by India that he is not a top 6 batsman by any stretch, even struggling to convince as a top .
Binnys bowling... well the first three seamers were getting creamed. The two spinners got good control and kept the scoring to a manageable level. Its not unreasonable at all that Binny as the 4th seamer took a while to get a bowl. When he did he gave away cheap runs. The Kiwis appeared far too comfortable against the seam attack so the part time spin was tried as a last roll of the dice.
He couldve been given a couple more overs but are you really arguing he likely wouldve made much impact? The golden boys Shami and Aaron and Mr reliable Kumar couldnt. Dhoini was pretty explicit in his reasons why they failed : If 2/3 of your bowling attack is useless you dont have a chance.

2) So now we are making excuses for Rahane that he was selected in the wrong position? Its Rohits fault hes cr@p? Given how early he came in he might as well have been an opener.

3) How was Rohit ever going to be dropped when hed just got the highest score of an Indian in this series?
If anyone should be getting dropped its the armchair selectors favourite Rahane who has never produced the goods and who appears to have Gooch as a batting coach.

Dhoni appears to be suffering from a stress related illness bought on by his bowlers being medium paced donkeys or non spinning spinners and his star batsmen being disinterested in scoring runs.
Binnys selection ...I guess the suggestion here is that someone has an interested in him and shoehorned him into the side then those actually responsible for play on the day tried to keep him out of the way. Maybe eventually he could develop in a handy solution for India who struggle to get genuinely good front line seamers to bowl as well as many of their specialists ( ie just about OK) and chip in with a few low order runs. But theres not a lot in his record to date I can see to suggest hes going to be a Corey Jane Anderson which those who proport him to be a proper middle order batsman seem to believe he is.

Indias plan B hasnt worked. Theres big questions about this team. New Zealand seem to genuinely have their sh1t together in this format, although how they will cope on spinning wickets is another question.



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Post by msp83 Wed 29 Jan 2014, 8:49 am

PSW? when did Rohit produce the highest score of an Indian in this series? His previous highest was 39. Kohli got a hundred and a 78, and Dhoni scored half-centuries in 2 of the first 3 games besides his 79 in the last game.

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Post by msp83 Wed 29 Jan 2014, 8:54 am

Actually I like the idea of converting Ashwin into an all-rounder. He's some one who bats with a correct technique to a large extent, and he has a test average close to 40. His 65 the other day was an assured innings. He can't do worse than Raina.
As for Binny, he's a bits and pieces player, not sure his batting or bowling is international standards. Of the 2 departments, its the batting that is better, he can hit the cricket ball a long way for sure. Someone like Rishi Dhawan who is a proper bowler with a very decent batting record would have been better. Binny is at best a number 7.

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Post by KP_fan Wed 29 Jan 2014, 8:59 am

msp83 wrote:
As for Binny, he's a bits and pieces player, not sure his batting or bowling is international standards.

just because he can bowl medium pace does not make him bits and pieces.
he holds his place as a middle order batsman and amongst the top Ranji performers for the last 3 seasons.
he showed excellent temperament and hitting ability in IPL

and that he can bowl medium pace with a pretty decent FC record......got him the selection ahead of other "equal" batsman only candidates
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Post by KP_fan Wed 29 Jan 2014, 9:30 am

It is not right to blame the bowler now as Dhoni is is doing......

he wanted line and length focused medium pacers...and brought in various trundlers by choice such as Vinay, Mohit, RPS

he has forced express pacers into line and length bowling in right area types.....publicly chiding bowlers like Yadav.

he doesn't like fast bowlers showing passion and emotion and agression onfild.....and has reprimanded Sreesanth for doing so.

Dhoni's mentality and expectation to use seamers as a run containing machine has taken away the expressive, unleashed fast bowling mentality from the Indian team.

and now he is complaining for the lack of it  Very Happy
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Post by msp83 Wed 29 Jan 2014, 10:40 am

I think Dhoni is quite right to have a go at the bowlers. Its been years that he's been putting up with this nonsense. Don't quick bowlers turning military medium all of a sudden is a thing with Indian cricket. We just don't know how to handle fast bowlers. Its somewhat like England and mystery spin. Though unlike in that case, there is no pathological hatred towards fast bowlers in India, but right from the basic levels, the support system is not able to manage fast bowlers. The kind of roads they their cricket has something to do with it, but that's not all. Don't think the skipper can be blamed for the same. If anything, the scheming boardroom hooligans should take the blame. The likes of Ashish Nehra and Munaf Patel turned to medium pacers after they made it to the national team. Even Zaheer cut down on his pace as he evolved in international cricket. But in his case, it was the result of him having a sound knowledge of his body, and he had the skills to become one of the best ever seam bowlers that India have produced.
The likes of Umesh Yadav and Varun Aaron haven't been able to deliver in ODIs despite having pace. Yadav couldn't bring his economy down to under 6 even after playing almost 30 ODIs. That would have been OK had he taken 50 wickets from those 30 ODIs. So long as that doesn't happen, we can't blame the captain or the selectors for keeping him out of the side.
The  only thing that Dhoni can be blamed for with regard to the bowling department is the continued selection of proven failure Ishant Sharma. Dhoni is hopelessly hping that he could yet make a half-decent bowler out of this wreck of a potential.
If the likes of Vinay Kumar were given chances, that was because he ws a domestic performer, and he even was half-useful in IPL. But Vinay proved that he doesn't have enough skills to make up for his lack of pace in international cricket. RP Singh was a pretty good bowler with lots of skills, but that was ones up on a time. His selection in 2011 was one of the most nonsensical ones in recent times.

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Post by msp83 Wed 29 Jan 2014, 10:42 am

Stuart Binny has had a couple of decent Ranji seasons in his entire career. He's a good hitter, but no way is he anywhere near the class of the likes of Manoj Tiwary, Rayudu, or even his Karnataka teammate Manish Pandey. Even Abhishek Nayar is a better batsman than him.
His bowling I don't think is much better than that of Ravi Bopara.

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Post by KP_fan Wed 29 Jan 2014, 11:30 am

msp83 wrote:Stuart Binny has had a couple of decent Ranji seasons in his entire career. He's a good hitter, but no way is he anywhere near the class of the likes of Manoj Tiwary, Rayudu, or even his Karnataka teammate Manish Pandey. Even Abhishek Nayar is a better batsman than him.
His bowling I don't think is much better than that of Ravi Bopara.

that is what India wanted....one of the top batsmen who could be a 5th bowler bowling with seam-up.....and Binny made the cut.
Nayar was 2nd in line but had't been bowling much recently and has actually ignored his bowling a bit.

Re: fast bowlers......naah Dhoni got Prasad as bowling coach fired and since then we have gone downhill.

India has handled fast bowlers well.... under some captains....Dhoni does not know how to handle fast bowlers......his entire strategy is based around line -length medium pace to contain and then hope batting can chase it down ...he doesn't know how to take wickets with fast bowlers...in any form of the game.



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New Zealand v India 4th ODI, Hamilton Empty Re: New Zealand v India 4th ODI, Hamilton

Post by msp83 Wed 29 Jan 2014, 11:38 am

KP_fan wrote:
msp83 wrote:Stuart Binny has had a couple of decent Ranji seasons in his entire career. He's a good hitter, but no way is he anywhere near the class of the likes of Manoj Tiwary, Rayudu, or even his Karnataka teammate Manish Pandey. Even Abhishek Nayar is a better batsman than him.
His bowling I don't think is much better than that of Ravi Bopara.

that is what India wanted....one of the top batsmen who could be a 5th bowler bowling with seam-up.....and Binny made the cut.
Nayar was 2nd in line but had't been bowling much recently and has actually ignored his bowling a bit.

Re: fast bowlers......naah Dhoni got Prasad as bowling coach fired and since then we have gone downhill.

India has handled fast bowlers well.... under some captains....Dhoni does not know how to handle fast bowlers......his entire strategy is based around line -length medium pace to contain and then hope batting can chase it down ...he doesn't know how to take wickets with fast bowlers...in any form of the game.



The decision to bring in Eric Simons as the bowling coach was that of Gary Kirsten and it did work as well.

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New Zealand v India 4th ODI, Hamilton Empty Re: New Zealand v India 4th ODI, Hamilton

Post by msp83 Wed 29 Jan 2014, 11:40 am

Dhoni doesn't have wicket taking fast bowlers in ODIs. The line and length stuff is not what he wants, but that's all he has to really work with as Umesh Yadav is not much of a strike bowler in ODIs and Aaron is mostly injured, and now that he's come back, his pace has gone down as well.

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New Zealand v India 4th ODI, Hamilton Empty Re: New Zealand v India 4th ODI, Hamilton

Post by KP_fan Wed 29 Jan 2014, 11:49 am

msp83 wrote:Dhoni doesn't have wicket taking fast bowlers in ODIs. The line and length stuff is not what he wants, but that's all he has to really work with as Umesh Yadav is not much of a strike bowler in ODIs and Aaron is mostly injured, and now that he's come back, his pace has gone down as well.

Dhoni did not take well to Robin and Prasad who had seen him as a young / junior cricketer and didn't give him the "respect"
Since Prasad is gone Indian bowling has gone downhill.

You are saying "Dhoni gets trundlers..so what can he do"

I am saying Dhoni wants trundlers ( asking for line and length type restrictive bowlers).....and he gets what he wants.
when a fast bowler is given to him...he steers them towards line-length / control and kills the raw aggression that these guys thrives on.

The problem Re: Fast Bowling is Dhoni in my view and not the lack of quality fast bowlers.
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New Zealand v India 4th ODI, Hamilton Empty Re: New Zealand v India 4th ODI, Hamilton

Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 29 Jan 2014, 12:58 pm

msp83 wrote:PSW? when did Rohit produce the highest score of an Indian in this series? His previous highest was 39. Kohli got a hundred and a 78, and Dhoni scored half-centuries in 2 of the first 3 games besides his 79 in the last game.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/667647.html

Last game, he also got 79

Was he going to get dropped off the back of that?

I missed Kholis century so correct that to second highest score of the series by an indian

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New Zealand v India 4th ODI, Hamilton Empty Re: New Zealand v India 4th ODI, Hamilton

Post by msp83 Wed 29 Jan 2014, 2:04 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
msp83 wrote:PSW? when did Rohit produce the highest score of an Indian in this series? His previous highest was 39. Kohli got a hundred and a 78, and Dhoni scored half-centuries in 2 of the first 3 games besides his 79 in the last game.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/667647.html

Last game, he also got 79

Was he going to get dropped off the back of that?

I missed Kholis century so correct that to second highest score of the series by an indian
The calls to drop him came before the 4th game, not after it. Now that he has struck with a 79, all that can be hoped for is that it is not one of those strikes for the opposition that he and Ishant usually produce ones or twice a year so that they'll stay on for the next 20 games doing nothing.

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New Zealand v India 4th ODI, Hamilton Empty Re: New Zealand v India 4th ODI, Hamilton

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