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Post by mystiroakey on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 7:23 pm

First topic message reminder :

Not sure what's going to happen in t his game..

More bothered about watching what Ox can do again..

Its not a forgone conclusion for me.

I do think Moyesball is pretty decent against possession teams..

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Post by Guest on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:21 pm

Pierce, completely agree. I bet Roy comes crawling to JT's front door, crying like a baby, if Jagielka or Cahill are ruled out the WC. I'm still astonished he came out last week saying JT was not going to be called upon.

By the way, anyone still think this 'leak' story about Townsend will re-surface before the WC?

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Post by Pierce Quincy on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:36 pm

^^^ It could.. you never know

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Post by GSC on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:45 pm

I don't particularly care about the JT non story. Hes retired, Roys said hes not going to ask him to unretire, who cares. Hes not going to come close to making enough difference that England become contenders
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 6:35 pm

GSC wrote:I don't particularly care about the JT non story. Hes retired, Roys said hes not going to ask him to unretire, who cares. Hes not going to come close to making enough difference that England become contenders

Exactly, hes not the messiah etc

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Post by GSC on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 6:38 pm

He is a pretty naughty boy though
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Post by compelling and rich on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 6:43 pm

GSC wrote:He is a pretty naughty boy though

 Laugh OK 

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 6:49 pm

Thank god someone took that, I'd have been so annoyed, it was so set up

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Post by socal1976 on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 8:50 pm

John wrote:
compelling and rich wrote:no matter what the problem is its nearly is always girouds fault with john!!


 Laugh OK 

It is though. Ozil just can't produce his assists or perfectly weighted killer balls, if stationery Giroud is offering nothing in behind. He's become frustrated has Ozil. Throw in the physical demands of the league & it's all just been too much for the lad.


I do wonder about John and Giroud sometimes. That being said I don't think it is his Arsenal teammates so much that have bothered him. The loss of Ramsey I think has been big because Ramsey's presence this season was relieving a lot of problems for Ozil. He was a monster at winning the ball and then finding Ozil and making a smart run into open space. He assisted most of Ozil's goals this year. I do agree with you that Giroud is not as good as either Karim or Ronaldo and there is of course an adjustment to Giroud's different style and more pedestrian nature. What do you think of Super Mario rumors John do you think that would be an upgrade, a risk worth taking?

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Post by socal1976 on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 8:52 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Just saying, having a discussion with John over the benefits of Giroud is like having a discussion with you over the negatives of Zaha; ie you're both rather entrenched and passionate in your view and it wouldnt be an argument I could win!  Very Happy 


I think John was Cecilia Kay's ex-boyfriend and he can't forgive Giroud for being pictured in his skivies with the love of his life.

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Post by Guest on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 8:56 pm

Super Mario is a superior upgrade to what Giroud brings. He`sworth the risk. Puma will fund the deal. Giroud is good against inferior opposition, just think what Mario could do in front of that midfield against those weaker sides, he'd be near 20 goals or more. Plus, when the big games come along he will be present n effective against the top sides, instead of Giroud whose essentially a passenger.

Get Joel Campbell back ASAP

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 9:27 pm

Arsenal couldnt beat United, they wont be winning the league

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Post by socal1976 on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 9:47 pm

And if Chelsea can't beat west brom then they won't win the title either

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 9:49 pm

Wow the nodge have picked up more points against top half sides than Utd

(We'll ignore the record against bottom half sides....)
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Post by socal1976 on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 9:53 pm

I agree John, although I don't deem giroud to be as worthless as you do. He does a lot of good work for the team and creates goals for others as well. 16 goals this year in all comps is not chopped liver. Yet I agree that if arsenal want to unseat the city's and Chelsea's of the world we need a bit more pace and flair

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 11:02 pm

Reports WBA are becoming restless with Pepe Mel already, yet people criticise McNally for a few words said about a manager doing a much worse job!

Would be madness to sack Mel after you spent pretty much a month pussyfooting around to appoint him
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Post by GSC on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 7:56 am

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11945/9185213/champions-league-van-persie-frustrated-with-team-mates-after-manchester-united-defeat

And Robin is outta here
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Post by mystiroakey on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 8:00 am

even Rooney wouldnt say that.

To be fair to uniteds players- its not as if RVP has been this exeptional player this season that commands all the space in that area..

what should the players do just give him the ball and run back into there own halves.

Moyes has lost his tactical nouse v teams - that is obvious.. but still RVP you need to make things happen and stop blaming others.

You would never here that nonsense from a player under SAF

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Post by Guest on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 10:43 am

To be honest, RVP is injury prone & ageing now, Ferguson bought him just to scupper City & hoped he would stay injury free for his last season, which he did. I would just play Rooney up top with Mata in behind from next season. Mata is a no. 10....play him in that role.

Moyes has lost his tactical nouse....he's never had it. If he was tactically great, he would of at least won with Everton @ a top 4 team in 10 years. He still hasn't won or looked like breaking that record at United. What is it nearly 50 games he's managed & not won once at a top 4? He can't even play players in there correct positions. He's been there over 6 months, he should know by now Smalling is technically awful to be playing right back or that Cleverley is dreadful or that Mata is more effective centrally. Embarrassing.

RVP knows it's a mess & he's already trying to look for his exit strategy.

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Post by mystiroakey on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 10:46 am

I suppose Moyes hasnt even won a cup. Which does seem crazy if you think about a team that never usually threatens the top 4 and a Cl spot , yet could never go down..

Not winning a cup with a team that has no real other priorities tells us about what he has achieved.



nada!!!!

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Post by Fernando on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 10:56 am

mystiroakey wrote:I suppose Moyes hasnt even won a cup. Which does seem crazy if you think about a team that never usually threatens the top 4 and a Cl spot , yet could never go down..

Not winning a cup with a team that has no real other priorities tells us about what he has achieved.



nada!!!!

Community Shield FTW  Laugh 

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 11:00 am

Bit harsh to say he's achieved nothing at Everton, they've not always been a top 6/7 team in fact hes the one that turned them into that from relegation contenders.

Its weird that people have just labeled him a poor manager after a few months ignoring a decade plus of good work at Everton. Probably in over his head at the minute, but he should be given a chance to get rid of the deadwood and bring in his own players.

I'd take him in a heartbeat at Nodge
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Post by Stella on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 11:04 am

Moyes is a good manager but Utd are to big. He's expected to win things with them, unlike Everton, where he punched above his weight. Utd in hindsight should have gone for Brendan Rodgers. He looks like he loves the pressure of managing a big club.
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Post by mystiroakey on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 11:04 am

Olly think about allways being a top 6/7 club though yet never winning a cup.

You would think that is the form team to win bags of cups in that time frame..

Yes he deserves great plaudits for bringing Everton back from the depths of despair.

but not to win a cup when he has no pressures after doing that in his first year- tells me he lacks the skillz in big games..

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 11:11 am

mystiroakey wrote:Olly think about allways being a top 6/7 club though yet never winning a cup.

You would think that is the form team to win bags of cups in that time frame..

By that criteria Wenger's been an even worse manager the last 8 years then as he's finished higher and not won a cup

Moyes did great with the limited resources he had at Everton. It never happened in the cup for them, but he still achieved great things there.
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Post by PaulHv2 on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 11:14 am

Stella wrote:Moyes is a good manager but Utd are to big. He's expected to win things with them, unlike Everton, where he punched above his weight. Utd in hindsight should have gone for Brendan Rodgers. He looks like he loves the pressure of managing a big club.

Not sure Brendan would have gone from Liverpool to United Stella Wink

One man I thought they should have approached was Roberto Martinez. A pleasing style to watch, and when you look at the work he's doing at Everton this season I can't see how he could have done worse than Moyes.
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Post by Guest on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 11:15 am

He's bought in two players. Fellaini at £27m, however, he could of got him at £24m & then Mata for £37m in a position that was already filled, therefore, a luxury player, ignoring the actual positions & issues that needed to be resolved elsewhere in the squad. That's not good management. Playing players out of position continually is again poor management. Removing the existing successful backroom staff who have strong personal relationships with the players, including the GK coach who could speak Spanish to De Gea, again shambolic decision making from Moyes.

I agree, he did a good job at Everton with the resources available, but he's doing a very good job of making himself look badly out of depth at United. I mean, this guy has spent over £15m on Fellaini once & then £27m on him a second time but then drops him for United's biggest European game of the season?

Would I want him spending the £100m available over the summer, categorically no! This is a crucial summer for United, they can't be making more mistakes. They need a top manager with stature, experience & understanding of European football, like the other top teams have. Moyes simply isn't it in my opinion.

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Post by mystiroakey on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 11:16 am

Olly wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Olly think about allways being a top 6/7 club though yet never winning a cup.

You would think that is the form team to win bags of cups in that time frame..

By that criteria Wenger's been an even worse manager the last 8 years then as he's finished higher and not won a cup

Moyes did great with the limited resources he had at Everton. It never happened in the cup for them, but he still achieved great things there.
no not at all - because he hit top 4 every year.

that was the goal and he acheived it.

when you are going for top 4 you may have to sacrifice cups. That is the whole point I am trying to make.

Moyes had nbo reason to and due to other teams having to sacrifice cup success. Well everton in 10 years never had to

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Post by Stella on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 11:17 am

mystiroakey wrote:
Olly wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Olly think about allways being a top 6/7 club though yet never winning a cup.

You would think that is the form team to win bags of cups in that time frame..

By that criteria Wenger's been an even worse manager the last 8 years then as he's finished higher and not won a cup

Moyes did great with the limited resources he had at Everton. It never happened in the cup for them, but he still achieved great things there.
no not at all - because he hit top 4 every year.

that was the goal and he acheived it.

Everton's goal league wise would be top six though. Fact is Wenger has under achieved in the cups, since 2005.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 11:18 am

hampo171 wrote:
Stella wrote:Moyes is a good manager but Utd are to big. He's expected to win things with them, unlike Everton, where he punched above his weight. Utd in hindsight should have gone for Brendan Rodgers. He looks like he loves the pressure of managing a big club.

Not sure Brendan would have gone from Liverpool to United Stella Wink

One man I thought they should have approached was Roberto Martinez. A pleasing style to watch, and when you look at the work he's doing at Everton this season I can't see how he could have done worse than Moyes.

Tbf appointing the guy who just got relegated with Wigan probably wouldn't have gone down too well
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Post by mystiroakey on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 11:20 am

Stella wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:
Olly wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Olly think about allways being a top 6/7 club though yet never winning a cup.

You would think that is the form team to win bags of cups in that time frame..

By that criteria Wenger's been an even worse manager the last 8 years then as he's finished higher and not won a cup

Moyes did great with the limited resources he had at Everton. It never happened in the cup for them, but he still achieved great things there.
no not at all - because he hit top 4 every year.

that was the goal and he acheived it.

Everton's goal league wise would be top six though. Fact is Wenger has under achieved in the cups, since 2005.
there is no top 6 goal though is there- unless you think he allways wanted to hit uefa cup.

Well he never won that did he?

and if you win a domestic cup you get that anyway.

There is a very clear top 4 target that is worth 50 odd million.

top 6 - no one cares about.. It means zip... Fans would rather be top 9 and win cups

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Post by mystiroakey on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 11:21 am

Olly wrote:
hampo171 wrote:
Stella wrote:Moyes is a good manager but Utd are to big. He's expected to win things with them, unlike Everton, where he punched above his weight. Utd in hindsight should have gone for Brendan Rodgers. He looks like he loves the pressure of managing a big club.

Not sure Brendan would have gone from Liverpool to United Stella Wink

One man I thought they should have approached was Roberto Martinez. A pleasing style to watch, and when you look at the work he's doing at Everton this season I can't see how he could have done worse than Moyes.

Tbf appointing the guy who just got relegated with Wigan probably wouldn't have gone down too well

and yet he WON A CUP Wink

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Post by PaulHv2 on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 11:22 am

Olly wrote:
hampo171 wrote:
Stella wrote:Moyes is a good manager but Utd are to big. He's expected to win things with them, unlike Everton, where he punched above his weight. Utd in hindsight should have gone for Brendan Rodgers. He looks like he loves the pressure of managing a big club.

Not sure Brendan would have gone from Liverpool to United Stella Wink

One man I thought they should have approached was Roberto Martinez. A pleasing style to watch, and when you look at the work he's doing at Everton this season I can't see how he could have done worse than Moyes.

Tbf appointing the guy who just got relegated with Wigan probably wouldn't have gone down too well

Probably not, you could argue he won more trophies than Moyes did though Wink. If you asked a United fan who they'd want now most of them would bite your hand off for Martinez.

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Post by Stella on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 11:23 am

mystiroakey wrote:
Stella wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:
Olly wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Olly think about allways being a top 6/7 club though yet never winning a cup.

You would think that is the form team to win bags of cups in that time frame..

By that criteria Wenger's been an even worse manager the last 8 years then as he's finished higher and not won a cup

Moyes did great with the limited resources he had at Everton. It never happened in the cup for them, but he still achieved great things there.
no not at all - because he hit top 4 every year.

that was the goal and he acheived it.

Everton's goal league wise would be top six though. Fact is Wenger has under achieved in the cups, since 2005.
there is no top 6 goal though is there- unless you think he allways wanted to hit uefa cup.

Well he never won that did he?

and if you win a domestic cup you get that anyway.

There is a very clear top 4 target that is worth 50 odd million.


top 6 - no one cares about.. It means zip... Fans would rather be top 9 and win cups

Top 6 does mean Europe, and I bet the owners would be telling him to try and get that. In truth, both Wenger and Moyes, especially Wenger would be expected to win something in 9 years.
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Post by mystiroakey on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 11:24 am

top 4 is worth more than any cup bar the CL

any cup is worth more than top 6(and gets you uefa as well)

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 11:25 am

hampo171 wrote:
Olly wrote:
hampo171 wrote:
Stella wrote:Moyes is a good manager but Utd are to big. He's expected to win things with them, unlike Everton, where he punched above his weight. Utd in hindsight should have gone for Brendan Rodgers. He looks like he loves the pressure of managing a big club.

Not sure Brendan would have gone from Liverpool to United Stella Wink

One man I thought they should have approached was Roberto Martinez. A pleasing style to watch, and when you look at the work he's doing at Everton this season I can't see how he could have done worse than Moyes.

Tbf appointing the guy who just got relegated with Wigan probably wouldn't have gone down too well

Probably not, you could argue he won more trophies than Moyes did though Wink. If you asked a United fan who they'd want now most of them would bite your hand off for Martinez.


Hindsight is a wonderful thing Hampo.

Although Martinez is doing pretty much the same job as Moyes did at Everton around 6th/7th place
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Post by mystiroakey on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 11:26 am

Yes Olly- But everton are playing lovely football this season..

As arsernal allways have as well.

You can get around the fans if you play quality nice football

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Post by Stella on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 11:28 am

mystiroakey wrote:top 4 is worth more than any cup bar the CL

any cup is worth more than top 6(and gets you uefa as well)

I know your're a big Wenger fan, but lets be honest, he's underachieved since he 'luckily' won the cup in 2005. That said, my money's on Arsenal to win the league this season.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 11:29 am

mystiroakey wrote:Yes Olly- But everton are playing lovely football this season..

As arsernal allways have as well.

You can get around the fans if you play quality nice football

You did watch Everton under Moyes didn't you? They played good high tempo stuff

Martinez has made a few little tweaks this year, but nothing drastic
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Post by mystiroakey on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 11:32 am

Olly wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Yes Olly- But everton are playing lovely football this season..

As arsernal allways have as well.

You can get around the fans if you play quality nice football

You did watch Everton under Moyes didn't you? They played good high tempo stuff

Martinez has made a few little tweaks this year, but nothing drastic
Well off course i did.

I will admit that over the last few years before this one  i have obviously concentrated on the Championship and CL games more than this year since palace are back in the PL. Anyway- I love the way Everton are playing. and maybe I didnt watch them that much. But i dont remember anyone saying how well they played under moyes


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Post by Stella on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 11:32 am

Everton were a little negative at home, normally against the so called weaker team, when under Moyes.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 11:34 am

I've always enjoyed watching Everton play, in seasons past and this year.

They're probably my fav team to watch, 2nd fav team after Nodge. Proper football club
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 11:43 am

Revisionist history and hindsight is a wonderful thing, eh?

Also:

Who did RVP say this to?

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Post by mystiroakey on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 11:46 am

I think a dutch reporter!!

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Post by compelling and rich on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 12:16 pm

Olly wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Yes Olly- But everton are playing lovely football this season..

As arsernal allways have as well.

You can get around the fans if you play quality nice football

You did watch Everton under Moyes didn't you? They played good high tempo stuff

Martinez has made a few little tweaks this year, but nothing drastic

must have been a different everton team to who played us then, all they did was boot it up field to felliani when they played us. i know he was playing to his strengths but i saw everton at OT few times and they were awful to watch (didnt make the 4-4 game)


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Post by Fernando on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 12:27 pm

With Moyes having a 6 year deal at United it would cost a lot to sack him. Was on 4m a year at Everton so presuming 5-7m at United that's somewhere between 25-35m just to sack him with less then a year done.

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Post by mystiroakey on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 12:29 pm

how about united say goodbye and you can have Fellani as your pet or servant?

the money adds up?

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 12:32 pm

It wont be money in sacking that stops them sacking him. More than any English club, they can see how their teams standing is in terms of financials.

Everton have never beaten us playing bad football. Moyes managed Pienaar, for example, better than anyone else has. Brought in Mirallas. Progressed Baines and Coleman. Got the best of his career from Distin, who is a classy centre back not a lump and run guy. Used Osman in the way that got his England call up.

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Post by compelling and rich on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 1:06 pm

Fernando wrote:With Moyes having a 6 year deal at United it would cost a lot to sack him. Was on 4m a year at Everton so presuming 5-7m at United that's somewhere between 25-35m just to sack him with less then a year done.

at the minute he has lost the faith of the players and the fans, can we afford to sit back and watch him waste more money in the summer. the 60mil he has already spent hasnt exactly made us a better team has it

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Post by Guest on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 1:19 pm

Can Utd afford the three ring circus of chopping and changing managers every six months? Which Manager is going to A/ Want to try and manage this current shambles and B/ if they get rid of Moyes, be confident that they'll be given time to turn it around?

Wouldn't surprise me if they're currently sucking up to Fergie in attempt to lure him back. Wouldn't surprise me if Fergie knew it all along when he retired. "They'll be sh!te, they'll beg me to come back and I'll make a fortune...BWAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAA!"

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 2:10 pm

Olly wrote:Reports WBA are becoming restless with Pepe Mel already, yet people criticise McNally for a few words said about a manager doing a much worse job!

Would be madness to sack Mel after you spent pretty much a month pussyfooting around to appoint him

News that will make Nick jizz all over himself

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