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Mourhino: Wenger is a specialist in failure

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Is Jose correct?

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Mourhino: Wenger is a specialist in failure - Page 2 Empty Mourhino: Wenger is a specialist in failure

Post by It Must Be Love on Fri 14 Feb 2014, 6:02 pm

First topic message reminder :

http://www.sportpulse.net/content/mourhino-taunts-arsenals-trophyless-run-wenger-specialist-failure-13917


Trophy-less for 8 years, but Arsenal did have financial restraints. And remember Wenger did many years ago win titles.


Last edited by Starlight on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by socal1976 on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 7:28 pm

Ent wrote:
socal1976 wrote:In fact, I can't think of another incident anywhere in modern football when a manager has claimed that another sitting manager is a failure and should resign, not one.

Shouldn't have said he was afraid of failing.

Don't poke the hornets nest etc

Also he didn't say he should leave, you do stretch the truth quite a bit don't you.

No he basically did say that he should leave claiming he would leave if he hadn't won anything in 8 years. It is pretty much read between the lines and it is quite clear his meaning. Actually if you look at Wenger's quote, he basically points out that Jose is playing psychological games to ease the pressure on his team. He is pointing out the obvious that Jose is being coy in trying to lower expectations for his side. Jose's meaning isn't lost on anyone when he says Arsene is a specialist in failure and that he (jose) would resign if he didn't win anything for 8 years. What did he mean then calling Wenger a specialist in failure? Wenger's quote if you look at the context of it is actually pretty benign.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 7:33 pm

Are you still crying?

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Post by socal1976 on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 7:40 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Are you still crying?


Are you still trying to be funny and failing? Sorry I guess we aren't all virtual keyboard tough guys like you are.

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Post by It Must Be Love on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 7:48 pm

Jose should look at the result of this 606v2 poll, atm 100% of people disagree with him.

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Post by It Must Be Love on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 7:49 pm

I don't think Jose was saying Wenger should resign, I think he was saying he would leave.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 7:52 pm

Ent wrote:
socal1976 wrote:In fact, I can't think of another incident anywhere in modern football when a manager has claimed that another sitting manager is a failure and should resign, not one.

Shouldn't have said he was afraid of failing.

Don't poke the hornets nest etc

Also he didn't say he should leave, you do stretch the truth quite a bit don't you.

Seven league titles, four cup wins and two champions league titles in the past 12 years as a manager and he's afraid of failing, I can't work that comment out really.

It's fair to say most managers were they at an elite club wouldn't survive going eight years without winning a trophy in this day and age.

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Post by It Must Be Love on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 7:57 pm

What Wenger actually said was correct, basically that Mourhino was playing all these mind games to was take the pressure of himself... so that even if Chelsea do badly this season he can always say 'oh, as I said earlier we were in transition anyway.'

As for his reply to Wenger, firstly is was rude (much ruder than what Wenger said), and secondly I suppose it can argued to be true... recently. I don't think anyone can argue that Wenger 10 years ago was a specialist in failure.
As for whether Wenger is a specialist in failure now, I think those words are too harsh; but if it is true that funds were available and Wenger simply didn't spend them, I think you could make a convincing case that Wenger had 'lost his winning mindset.'

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Post by socal1976 on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 8:08 pm

Starlight wrote:What Wenger actually said was correct, basically that Mourhino was playing all these mind games to was take the pressure of himself... so that even if Chelsea do badly this season he can always say 'oh, as I said earlier we were in transition anyway.'

As for his reply to Wenger, firstly is was rude (much ruder than what Wenger said), and secondly I suppose it can argued to be true... recently. I don't think anyone can argue that Wenger 10 years ago was a specialist in failure.
As for whether Wenger is a specialist in failure now, I think those words are too harsh; but if it is true that funds were available and Wenger simply didn't spend them, I think you could make a convincing case that Wenger had 'lost his winning mindset.'


Spot on. I agree with what Arsene was saying Jose was pretty comical with his we are a little horse and not contenders for league stick especially when they sit top two thirds of the way through the season. Also agree that now that Arsenal have all these plum financial deals and can buy world class players the excuses about money just don't fly and we better see some trophies soon.

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Post by It Must Be Love on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 8:11 pm

socal1976 wrote:
Starlight wrote:What Wenger actually said was correct, basically that Mourhino was playing all these mind games to was take the pressure of himself... so that even if Chelsea do badly this season he can always say 'oh, as I said earlier we were in transition anyway.'

As for his reply to Wenger, firstly is was rude (much ruder than what Wenger said), and secondly I suppose it can argued to be true... recently. I don't think anyone can argue that Wenger 10 years ago was a specialist in failure.
As for whether Wenger is a specialist in failure now, I think those words are too harsh; but if it is true that funds were available and Wenger simply didn't spend them, I think you could make a convincing case that Wenger had 'lost his winning mindset.'


Spot on. I agree with what Arsene was saying Jose was pretty comical with his we are a little horse and not contenders for league stick especially when they sit top two thirds of the way through the season. Also agree that now that Arsenal have all these plum financial deals and can buy world class players the excuses about money just don't fly and we better see some trophies soon.
Agree with what you say above, but there is another question raised: did Wenger underspend during these 8 years?
I mean for example, you said there was something like net £9 million spent, I'm not arguing they could have spent £500 million like Man City; but is it possible they could have spent around £100 million net let's say?
Is it possible Wenger lost his winning mindset, and simply started concentrating too much with the ideas of turning young players into greats, and would not let himself spend available cash on 'read-made' players.

Again, I don't know, I don't know enough about what was going on behind the scenes at Arsenal.

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Post by It Must Be Love on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 8:12 pm

Could he also have been firmer, and stopped the sales of:
RVP
Flamini
Nasri
Fabregas
Song
Adebayor
Hleb


All of the above were pretty much first XI at the time of sale.

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Post by socal1976 on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 8:17 pm

Starlight wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
Starlight wrote:What Wenger actually said was correct, basically that Mourhino was playing all these mind games to was take the pressure of himself... so that even if Chelsea do badly this season he can always say 'oh, as I said earlier we were in transition anyway.'

As for his reply to Wenger, firstly is was rude (much ruder than what Wenger said), and secondly I suppose it can argued to be true... recently. I don't think anyone can argue that Wenger 10 years ago was a specialist in failure.
As for whether Wenger is a specialist in failure now, I think those words are too harsh; but if it is true that funds were available and Wenger simply didn't spend them, I think you could make a convincing case that Wenger had 'lost his winning mindset.'


Spot on. I agree with what Arsene was saying Jose was pretty comical with his we are a little horse and not contenders for league stick especially when they sit top two thirds of the way through the season. Also agree that now that Arsenal have all these plum financial deals and can buy world class players the excuses about money just don't fly and we better see some trophies soon.
Agree with what you say above, but there is another question raised: did Wenger underspend during these 8 years?
I mean for example, you said there was something like net £9 million spent, I'm not arguing they could have spent £500 million like Man City; but is it possible they could have spent around £100 million net let's say?
Is it possible Wenger lost his winning mindset, and simply started concentrating too much with the ideas of turning young players into greats, and would not let himself spend available cash on 'read-made' players.

Again, I don't know, I don't know enough about what was going on behind the scenes at Arsenal.

I think it is debatable, as I said if Arsene doesn't win trophies soon and doesn't spend on quality in the next window even I think it will be time for a change. Although I like the fact that we develop young players and wouldn't want that part of it to change. Arsene is notorious for not paying for a player who thinks is over valued. But in today's market with the mad sheik and Roman he may need to reevaluate what he deems is fair market value.

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Post by It Must Be Love on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 8:22 pm

Socal, what type of funds were available to him before the Ozil transfer in the last 8 years or so?
Did he need to sell all those first XI players?

If the answer to these questions is: a) more than £100 million net and b) No,
then I think Jose may have a point, in that Wenger lost his rutheless winning mentality. Of course phrasing it like a 'specialist in failure' is rude and exaggerated, but can you see the point I'm making?

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 8:23 pm

Trophy-less in eight years for a club like Arsenal equals failure.

That's the grim reality. You can shy away from it, you can hide from it, and you can ignore it - it's still a fact though.

4th place should not be constantly touted as a success, as Wenger believes it to be, and certainly not for a club like Arsenal.

A lot of the time, the failure is down to Wenger's stubborn nature - last month was a perfect example. Arsenal needed a striker, and they probably needed a player or two to shore up the defence. No investment. Now they've been thrashed 5-1 by Liverpool, and Arsenal's season will gradually fall apart....just like it does every season since time immemorial, or at least that's the way it seems.

Wenger will never learn. Arsenal will never advance. Another trophy-less season awaits.

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Post by Ent on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 8:24 pm

The implication of mourinhos words where he would have been sacked and not rehired if he went 8 years without a trophy. Which is true.

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Post by It Must Be Love on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 8:26 pm

Duty281 wrote:Trophy-less in eight years for a club like Arsenal equals failure.

That's the grim reality. You can shy away from it, you can hide from it, and you can ignore it - it's still a fact though.

4th place should not be constantly touted as a success, as Wenger believes it to be, and certainly not for a club like Arsenal.
Let's not get too ahead of ourselves, certainly they did well for having spent so little on net.
The question is... did they need to spend so little? We don't know the answer to that, well I don't anyway.

Duty281 wrote:
A lot of the time, the failure is down to Wenger's stubborn nature - last month was a perfect example. Arsenal needed a striker, and they probably needed a player or two to shore up the defence. No investment. Now they've been thrashed 5-1 by Liverpool, and Arsenal's season will gradually fall apart....just like it does every season since time immemorial, or at least that's the way it seems.
They really really should have got a striker, Giroud is good but not top class, and Walcott is injured. I think that will cost Arsenal 2nd place, and maybe even 3rd place.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 8:34 pm

May 2004 - Arsenal win the league, and finish the season unbeaten. Top of the domestic pile; the best club in England.

What have the Gunners added to their cabinet since then, in nearly ten years?

One Fa Cup.

Failure.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 8:48 pm

Duty281 wrote:May 2004 - Arsenal win the league, and finish the season unbeaten. Top of the domestic pile; the best club in England.

What have the Gunners added to their cabinet since then, in nearly ten years?

One Fa Cup.

Failure.

if you judge success purely in terms of winniong trophies then yes, but then so have 90% of clubs in the world been failures under that definition.

For me I think success is far more personal. Arsenal finishing 3rd in 2011/2012 after losing 8-2 to Man U is a massive sign ofsuccess, that team was absolute crap due to injuries/sales (fabregs/clichy/nasri being sold) yet we finished 3rd.

Wenger has clearly had a lot of success over the last 10 years such as always finishing top 4/ always qualifying from the CL groups and 1 final and 2 semi finals/ 2 domestic cup finals/ making a massive amount of profit selling players whilst still finishing 3rd/4th.

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Post by Ent on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 8:54 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Duty281 wrote:May 2004 - Arsenal win the league, and finish the season unbeaten. Top of the domestic pile; the best club in England.

What have the Gunners added to their cabinet since then, in nearly ten years?

One Fa Cup.

Failure.

if you judge success purely in terms of winniong trophies then yes, but then so have 90% of clubs in the world been failures under that definition.

For me I think success is far more personal. Arsenal finishing 3rd in 2011/2012 after losing 8-2 to Man U is a massive sign ofsuccess, that team was absolute crap due to injuries/sales (fabregs/clichy/nasri being sold) yet we finished 3rd.

Wenger has clearly had a lot of success over the last 10 years such as always finishing top 4/ always qualifying from the CL groups and 1 final and 2 semi finals/ 2 domestic cup finals/ making a massive amount of profit selling players whilst still finishing 3rd/4th.

That isn't success, it's the opposite - failure.

Were united successful in coming second on goal difference to city having lost 6-1 to them and having less money to spend?

No.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 8:57 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Duty281 wrote:May 2004 - Arsenal win the league, and finish the season unbeaten. Top of the domestic pile; the best club in England.

What have the Gunners added to their cabinet since then, in nearly ten years?

One Fa Cup.

Failure.

if you judge success purely in terms of winniong trophies then yes, but then so have 90% of clubs in the world been failures under that definition.

For me I think success is far more personal. Arsenal finishing 3rd in 2011/2012 after losing 8-2 to Man U is a massive sign ofsuccess, that team was absolute crap due to injuries/sales (fabregs/clichy/nasri being sold) yet we finished 3rd.

Wenger has clearly had a lot of success over the last 10 years such as always finishing top 4/ always qualifying from the CL groups and 1 final and 2 semi finals/ 2 domestic cup finals/ making a massive amount of profit selling players whilst still finishing 3rd/4th.

Well no, I would define success as relative to the club.

You wouldn't expect Stoke, for example, to be winning trophies, but you would expect Arsenal to. Winning only one trophy in the ten years since the last league title is failure.

A club like Arsenal should be winning trophies more often. No trophies in over eight and a half years, not even a Carling Cup, is failure.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 8:59 pm

Ent wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Duty281 wrote:May 2004 - Arsenal win the league, and finish the season unbeaten. Top of the domestic pile; the best club in England.

What have the Gunners added to their cabinet since then, in nearly ten years?

One Fa Cup.

Failure.

if you judge success purely in terms of winniong trophies then yes, but then so have 90% of clubs in the world been failures under that definition.

For me I think success is far more personal. Arsenal finishing 3rd in 2011/2012 after losing 8-2 to Man U is a massive sign ofsuccess, that team was absolute crap due to injuries/sales (fabregs/clichy/nasri being sold) yet we finished 3rd.

Wenger has clearly had a lot of success over the last 10 years such as always finishing top 4/ always qualifying from the CL groups and 1 final and 2 semi finals/ 2 domestic cup finals/ making a massive amount of profit selling players whilst still finishing 3rd/4th.

That isn't success, it's the opposite - failure.

Were united successful in coming second on goal difference to city having lost 6-1 to them and having less money to spend?

No.

Like I said it is only failure if you judge success to be solely winning.



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Post by Ent on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:03 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Ent wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Duty281 wrote:May 2004 - Arsenal win the league, and finish the season unbeaten. Top of the domestic pile; the best club in England.

What have the Gunners added to their cabinet since then, in nearly ten years?

One Fa Cup.

Failure.

if you judge success purely in terms of winniong trophies then yes, but then so have 90% of clubs in the world been failures under that definition.

For me I think success is far more personal. Arsenal finishing 3rd in 2011/2012 after losing 8-2 to Man U is a massive sign ofsuccess, that team was absolute crap due to injuries/sales (fabregs/clichy/nasri being sold) yet we finished 3rd.

Wenger has clearly had a lot of success over the last 10 years such as always finishing top 4/ always qualifying from the CL groups and 1 final and 2 semi finals/ 2 domestic cup finals/ making a massive amount of profit selling players whilst still finishing 3rd/4th.

That isn't success, it's the opposite - failure.

Were united successful in coming second on goal difference to city having lost 6-1 to them and having less money to spend?

No.

Like I said it is only failure if you judge success to be solely winning.



Which you do for arsenal.


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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:04 pm

Ent wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Ent wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Duty281 wrote:May 2004 - Arsenal win the league, and finish the season unbeaten. Top of the domestic pile; the best club in England.

What have the Gunners added to their cabinet since then, in nearly ten years?

One Fa Cup.

Failure.

if you judge success purely in terms of winniong trophies then yes, but then so have 90% of clubs in the world been failures under that definition.

For me I think success is far more personal. Arsenal finishing 3rd in 2011/2012 after losing 8-2 to Man U is a massive sign ofsuccess, that team was absolute crap due to injuries/sales (fabregs/clichy/nasri being sold) yet we finished 3rd.

Wenger has clearly had a lot of success over the last 10 years such as always finishing top 4/ always qualifying from the CL groups and 1 final and 2 semi finals/ 2 domestic cup finals/ making a massive amount of profit selling players whilst still finishing 3rd/4th.

That isn't success, it's the opposite - failure.

Were united successful in coming second on goal difference to city having lost 6-1 to them and having less money to spend?

No.

Like I said it is only failure if you judge success to be solely winning.



Which you do for arsenal.


That is your personal opinion, not mine. I do not believe Arsenal's success is solely trophies.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:06 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Ent wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Ent wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Duty281 wrote:May 2004 - Arsenal win the league, and finish the season unbeaten. Top of the domestic pile; the best club in England.

What have the Gunners added to their cabinet since then, in nearly ten years?

One Fa Cup.

Failure.

if you judge success purely in terms of winniong trophies then yes, but then so have 90% of clubs in the world been failures under that definition.

For me I think success is far more personal. Arsenal finishing 3rd in 2011/2012 after losing 8-2 to Man U is a massive sign ofsuccess, that team was absolute crap due to injuries/sales (fabregs/clichy/nasri being sold) yet we finished 3rd.

Wenger has clearly had a lot of success over the last 10 years such as always finishing top 4/ always qualifying from the CL groups and 1 final and 2 semi finals/ 2 domestic cup finals/ making a massive amount of profit selling players whilst still finishing 3rd/4th.

That isn't success, it's the opposite - failure.

Were united successful in coming second on goal difference to city having lost 6-1 to them and having less money to spend?

No.

Like I said it is only failure if you judge success to be solely winning.



Which you do for arsenal.


That is your personal opinion, not mine. I do not believe Arsenal's success is solely trophies.

Are you Arsene Wenger?

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Post by Ent on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:07 pm

You are wrong.

What are the goals and hopes for this season and the next few?

4th? Maybe a cup final.

Behave.

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Post by skyeman on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:08 pm

Ent wrote:The implication of mourinhos words where he would have been sacked and not rehired if he went 8 years without a trophy. Which is true.


Especially with an egotistical owner with an even bigger egotistical manager.

A match made in heaven angel 

Until PMSL.

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Post by Guest on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:11 pm

Who'd have guessed that that Carling Cup final defeat to Birmingham in 2011 would still bear relevance today?

If Arsenal win the FA Cup this year is Wenger then in the clear?


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Post by Ent on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:12 pm

skyeman wrote:
Ent wrote:The implication of mourinhos words where he would have been sacked and not rehired if he went 8 years without a trophy. Which is true.


Especially with an egotistical owner with an even bigger egotistical manager.

A match made in heaven angel 

Until PMSL.

Hypothetically let's say wenger had taken the Madrid job in 05 and his replacement had exactly try exams results. Do you think he would still have a job?

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Post by skyeman on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:16 pm

Look, Jose on the psychology is better than Dave Basset but he is no Sir Alex.

Still an amateur on that front.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:17 pm

Ent wrote:You are wrong.

What are the goals and hopes for this season and the next few?

4th? Maybe a cup final.

Behave.

Well success changes based on the circumstances so I do not know what the goals will be for the next few years. Liverpool might get a rich billionaire owner and spend 400 million. Man city might spend another £120 million a year. Man United might spend 100 million again and saf might come out of retirement.

This year our goals have changed slightly due to injuries, walcott out for the season, ramsey injured for nearly 3 months, podolski injured for 3 months.

But anyway as I said success is a subjectivething based on immediate circumstances.


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Post by skyeman on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:17 pm

And his broken English and Cantona type quotes are comical.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:18 pm

Arsenal aren't judged on winning trophies, WTF?

In other news Moyes won't be judged on the future success of Man United, it is no longer what drives the club.

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Post by skyeman on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:19 pm

Ent wrote:
skyeman wrote:
Ent wrote:The implication of mourinhos words where he would have been sacked and not rehired if he went 8 years without a trophy. Which is true.


Especially with an egotistical owner with an even bigger egotistical manager.

A match made in heaven angel 

Until PMSL.

Hypothetically let's say wenger had taken the Madrid job in 05 and his replacement had exactly try exams results. Do you think he would still have a job?

Hypothetically, he would not have got the job.

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Post by socal1976 on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:26 pm

Starlight wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Trophy-less in eight years for a club like Arsenal equals failure.

That's the grim reality. You can shy away from it, you can hide from it, and you can ignore it - it's still a fact though.

4th place should not be constantly touted as a success, as Wenger believes it to be, and certainly not for a club like Arsenal.
Let's not get too ahead of ourselves, certainly they did well for having spent so little on net.
The question is... did they need to spend so little? We don't know the answer to that, well I don't anyway.

Duty281 wrote:
A lot of the time, the failure is down to Wenger's stubborn nature - last month was a perfect example. Arsenal needed a striker, and they probably needed a player or two to shore up the defence. No investment. Now they've been thrashed 5-1 by Liverpool, and Arsenal's season will gradually fall apart....just like it does every season since time immemorial, or at least that's the way it seems.
They really really should have got a striker, Giroud is good but not top class, and Walcott is injured. I think that will cost Arsenal 2nd place, and maybe even 3rd place.

I agree Starlight the issue is the board has said they always have had money and yet the team didn't buy players and in fact sold almost as much as they bought. I don't know the exact answer to how much money they could or could not have spent. As for the January window, I wish they would have brought in someone but I don't think either Draxler or Martinez are worth the 35 plus million pounds. And I understand that Wenger wouldn't want to pull the trigger for a player that is overvalued and may dent his ability to get a world class striker in the summer when there will me more opportunities for buying.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:26 pm

The way I know Wenger has been a success is the fact that with him we have remained a top tier team(albeit with no trophies but with ppearances in european and domestic cup finals and always finishing top 4).

What would have happened to Arsenal if Wenger left in 05? would we still be one of the best teams in the world? would we be 2nd in the league right now? would we have finished top 4 every year including finishing 2nd and 3rd some years? My guess is that Arsenal would have ended up like Liverpool finishing 6th and 7th for the majority of the years.

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Post by socal1976 on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:29 pm

FreekShow wrote:Who'd have guessed that that Carling Cup final defeat to Birmingham in 2011 would still bear relevance today?

If Arsenal win the FA Cup this year is Wenger then in the clear?


I think so, I would love an FA cup win I think it would be a major success. Frankly, a league cup for me doesn't really count all that much in the analysis of the quality of a club. It just isn't much to brag about.

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Post by Guest on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:33 pm

socal1976 wrote:
FreekShow wrote:Who'd have guessed that that Carling Cup final defeat to Birmingham in 2011 would still bear relevance today?

If Arsenal win the FA Cup this year is Wenger then in the clear?


I think so, I would love an FA cup win I think it would be a major success. Frankly, a league cup for me doesn't really count all that much in the analysis of the quality of a club. It just isn't much to brag about.

Agreed but had you won that LC there'd be none of this 9 years without a trophy stuff.

Think you have a big chance for the FA cup this year. Fancy you to win tomorrow and then there's only City to really worry about.

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Post by socal1976 on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:35 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:The way I know Wenger has been a success is the fact that with him we have remained a top tier team(albeit with no trophies but with ppearances in european and domestic cup finals and always finishing top 4).

What would have happened to Arsenal if Wenger left in 05? would we still be one of the best teams in the world? would we be 2nd in the league right now? would we have finished top 4 every year including finishing 2nd and 3rd some years? My guess is that Arsenal would have ended up like Liverpool finishing 6th and 7th for the majority of the years.

I think without Wenger we would have struggled to qualify for Champions League as well.The league is different two huge moneyed owners have come and Arsene has not had the money to compete with the other 3 big boys for some time. From what we are reading that has changed with the new stadium debt being paid off and new commercial deals. I think with financial constraints resulting from bad commercial deals and two new money guys in the league Wenger has done well. I don't think another manager would have done any better and probably a lot worse. Lets remember that Wenger is still highly regarded as football mind and I doubt we would have been able to sign Ozil without his presence at the club.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:36 pm

FreekShow wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
FreekShow wrote:Who'd have guessed that that Carling Cup final defeat to Birmingham in 2011 would still bear relevance today?

If Arsenal win the FA Cup this year is Wenger then in the clear?


I think so, I would love an FA cup win I think it would be a major success. Frankly, a league cup for me doesn't really count all that much in the analysis of the quality of a club. It just isn't much to brag about.

Agreed but had you won that LC there'd be none of this 9 years without a trophy stuff.

Think you have a big chance for the FA cup this year. Fancy you to win tomorrow and then there's only City to really worry about.

Freek...where's your optimism?

Arsenal have got one eye on the Champions League, and one eye on the Premier League.

Conclusion? Arsenal have no eyes on the FA Cup. Wink

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Post by It Must Be Love on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:36 pm

socal wrote:I agree Starlight the issue is the board has said they always have had money and yet the team didn't buy players and in fact sold almost as much as they bought. I don't know the exact answer to how much money they could or could not have spent.
So could it be possible that Jose is actually correct?
I mean if we look past the fact his terminology was an exaggeration and rude; could it be argued that Wenger lost his ruthless winning mentality?

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Post by skyeman on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:37 pm

socal1976 wrote:
FreekShow wrote:Who'd have guessed that that Carling Cup final defeat to Birmingham in 2011 would still bear relevance today?

If Arsenal win the FA Cup this year is Wenger then in the clear?


I think so, I would love an FA cup win I think it would be a major success. Frankly, a league cup for me doesn't really count all that much in the analysis of the quality of a club. It just isn't much to brag about.



Could be greater than you think.  Sir Alex was one game away from the boot in 85.

If you bring in the millions though from the champions League, most chairmen will be forgiving.

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Post by socal1976 on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:39 pm

FreekShow wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
FreekShow wrote:Who'd have guessed that that Carling Cup final defeat to Birmingham in 2011 would still bear relevance today?

If Arsenal win the FA Cup this year is Wenger then in the clear?


I think so, I would love an FA cup win I think it would be a major success. Frankly, a league cup for me doesn't really count all that much in the analysis of the quality of a club. It just isn't much to brag about.

Agreed but had you won that LC there'd be none of this 9 years without a trophy stuff.

Think you have a big chance for the FA cup this year. Fancy you to win tomorrow and then there's only City to really worry about.


I don't know Freek, I think the injuries to Ramsey and Walcott have not been easy for the gunners to shake off and LFC's butt kicking really dented our psyche and it showed against United where at times the team was playing not to lose. I frankly think it is a toss up, I wish I was as confident as you are. But it should be a great match I expect a much better performance but the loss of Ramsey in particular has impacted everyone. He was the best player in the league in the first third of the season and not just in goals in all areas of play.

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Post by Guest on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:39 pm

skyeman wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
FreekShow wrote:Who'd have guessed that that Carling Cup final defeat to Birmingham in 2011 would still bear relevance today?

If Arsenal win the FA Cup this year is Wenger then in the clear?


I think so, I would love an FA cup win I think it would be a major success. Frankly, a league cup for me doesn't really count all that much in the analysis of the quality of a club. It just isn't much to brag about.



Could be greater than you think.  Sir Alex was one game away from the boot in 85.

If you bring in the millions though from the champions League, most chairmen will be forgiving.

It was 1990 and that is said to be a myth.

Back then the FA Cup was a much bigger achievement than it is now.

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Post by socal1976 on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:40 pm

Starlight wrote:
socal wrote:I agree Starlight the issue is the board has said they always have had money and yet the team didn't buy players and in fact sold almost as much as they bought. I don't know the exact answer to how much money they could or could not have spent.
So could it be possible that Jose is actually correct?
I mean if we look past the fact his terminology was an exaggeration and rude; could it be argued that Wenger lost his ruthless winning mentality?

No not really, not when you consider how huge CL qualification and the money, visibility, and prestige it brings to your club. There is no trophy for fourth place but I would rather have CL qualification than 3 league cups.


Last edited by socal1976 on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Fernando on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:41 pm

FreekShow wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
FreekShow wrote:Who'd have guessed that that Carling Cup final defeat to Birmingham in 2011 would still bear relevance today?

If Arsenal win the FA Cup this year is Wenger then in the clear?


I think so, I would love an FA cup win I think it would be a major success. Frankly, a league cup for me doesn't really count all that much in the analysis of the quality of a club. It just isn't much to brag about.

Agreed but had you won that LC there'd be none of this 9 years without a trophy stuff.

Think you have a big chance for the FA cup this year. Fancy you to win tomorrow and then there's only City to really worry about.

It doesn't bother me that much to be honest it's just a same excuse all fans throw out when their side are doing Poopie. Winning the league cup to be honest is basically going we're not doing well in the league so we're take the easy route whilst everyone puts Poopie sides out.

The only question id like to see answered, Arsene with loads of money could be successful tbh if he had an open chequebook, Could Mourinho do the same stuff Arsene has done on a limited budget? He'd throw a hissyfit and go money searching inside a year and a half. It's all about stroking his ego for Mourinho. you just have to look at his comments the year/day he threw his medal in the crowd.

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Post by skyeman on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:43 pm

Don't like Wenger or Mourhino but my take on it is Jose went too far. Forget the context to Wenger, what he said was disrespectful to 98% of all managers.

A low point for him.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:44 pm

Fernando wrote:
FreekShow wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
FreekShow wrote:Who'd have guessed that that Carling Cup final defeat to Birmingham in 2011 would still bear relevance today?

If Arsenal win the FA Cup this year is Wenger then in the clear?


I think so, I would love an FA cup win I think it would be a major success. Frankly, a league cup for me doesn't really count all that much in the analysis of the quality of a club. It just isn't much to brag about.

Agreed but had you won that LC there'd be none of this 9 years without a trophy stuff.

Think you have a big chance for the FA cup this year. Fancy you to win tomorrow and then there's only City to really worry about.

It doesn't bother me that much to be honest it's just a same excuse all fans throw out when their side are doing Poopie. Winning the league cup to be honest is basically going we're not doing well in the league so we're take the easy route whilst everyone puts Poopie sides out.

The only question id like to see answered, Arsene with loads of money could be successful tbh if he had an open chequebook, Could Mourinho do the same stuff Arsene has done on a limited budget? He'd throw a hissyfit and go money searching inside a year and a half. It's all about stroking his ego for Mourinho. you just have to look at his comments the year/day he threw his medal in the crowd.

to be fair he won europa league in 03 and then the champions league in 04 with porto who had a small budget. He also won the treble including the champions league with inter milan and he never spent that much money (mainly due to selling Ibra for like 60 million)

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Post by socal1976 on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:46 pm

skyeman wrote:Don't like Wenger or Mourhino but my take on it is Jose went too far. Forget the context to Wenger, what he said was disrespectful to 98% of all managers.

A low point for him.

That is the thing that throws me for loop as well every other manager kind of sticks up to a certain extent for other managers because they know what a cutthroat and difficult job it is. Jose has really broken with the norms and with common decency on this one.

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Post by Guest on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:47 pm

Without doubt the Inter CL triumph was mighty impressive, granted.

I'd rank that above his CL win with Porto.

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Post by Guest on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:49 pm

socal1976 wrote:
skyeman wrote:Don't like Wenger or Mourhino but my take on it is Jose went too far. Forget the context to Wenger, what he said was disrespectful to 98% of all managers.

A low point for him.

That is the thing that throws me for loop as well every other manager kind of sticks up to a certain extent for other managers because they know what a cutthroat and difficult job it is. Jose has really broken with the norms  and with common decency on this one.

He's a media wh0re in this country and he loves having them eat out the palms of his hands.

The Italian and Spanish press saw right through him and that really bothered him. Give him an audience and he's pretty much a loose cannon.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:50 pm

Can someone explain to me what is so bad about what Mourinho has said or is it just that he's taken a swipe at the manager of your beloved Arsenal?

I do love the excuses coming out already in case Arsenal don't win anything; 'our goals changed the moment we had injuries'.

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