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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 09 Mar 2014, 9:10 pm

Use this for the Arsenal debates and such
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Post by socal1976 Sun 09 Mar 2014, 9:22 pm

LOL! Olly, if anything you are master of polite and subtle suggestion.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 09 Mar 2014, 9:27 pm

... That's why I said to my old man
I'll never be a Gunner...cos every c**t's a runner.


And there was something on the hoardings of the Emirates on Saturday about being a runner. Confirmed, then.

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Post by Stella Mon 10 Mar 2014, 2:07 pm

Surprised there wasn't one?

My take. An FA cup win (a given) and top four will be a successful season.
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Post by Guest Mon 10 Mar 2014, 2:14 pm

So if Arsenal don't win the FA cup but still get top four it would be a disaster? Why is it then that the previous nine seasons in the top four but with no silverware were considered successes? Wonder what's changed the mindset of Arsenal fans?

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Post by Stella Mon 10 Mar 2014, 2:17 pm

I suppose Arsenal fans accepted a rebuilding phase, what with the new stadium? 9 years is a long time though. Patience must be wearing thin.
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Post by CFCNick Mon 10 Mar 2014, 2:19 pm

DAVE667 wrote:So if Arsenal don't win the FA cup but still get top four it would be a disaster? Why is it then that the previous nine seasons in the top four but with no silverware were considered successes? Wonder what's changed the mindset of Arsenal fans?

Maybe because this season they joined the status quo and spent £40m on one player.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist Mon 10 Mar 2014, 5:14 pm

Bit of everything really. We have spent a lot of money on players this year and the rebuilding phase due to the move to the emirates is finally coming to an end.

If we never won the fa cup this season then the season would not be a disaster, the fact that we are in the semi-finals and the 3 other teams are a championship side, a league 1 side and a premier league team strugging at the bottom of the league would make it a disaster if we never won.

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Post by socal1976 Mon 10 Mar 2014, 6:55 pm

I think it would be disastrous and a fail if we didn't win the cup. I am not saying any of the teams are going to be pushovers and I am not counting my chickens. The media will crucify the club and the wenger out faction will go crazy and go it to open revolt. If we lose we could lose one of the best managers in the world which will hurt us in attracting players next season. Already you can see the wolves circling almost gleefully praying for a repeat of Birmingham but this will be even worse. It is no understatement to say the next two cup ties are the biggest matches in arsenal's recent history. I don't want this to be the case, and I will support the club regardless. But there will be a monumental and damaging shiittstorm if we don't lift the cup.

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Post by socal1976 Mon 10 Mar 2014, 8:11 pm

Stella wrote:Surprised there wasn't one?

My take. An FA cup win (a given) and top four will be a successful season.

There was one, I posted on it last year and rarely posted in the regular football forum just posted on the Arsenal thread. But it petered out.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 12 Mar 2014, 6:04 pm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenals-injury-problems-down-incompetent-3233644#ixzz2vl290HuA

A good read on Arsenal's injury stuff
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Post by LastDamnation Wed 12 Mar 2014, 6:24 pm

Olly wrote:http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenals-injury-problems-down-incompetent-3233644#ixzz2vl290HuA

A good read on Arsenal's injury stuff

"We have had some players come to us at Arsenal from other clubs abroad and their red blood cell count has been abnormally high. That kind of thing makes you wonder. There are clubs who dope their players without the players knowing. The club might say that they were being injected with vitamins and the player would not necessarily know that it was something different."

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Post by Champagne_Socialist Wed 12 Mar 2014, 6:47 pm

LastDamnation wrote:
Olly wrote:http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenals-injury-problems-down-incompetent-3233644#ixzz2vl290HuA

A good read on Arsenal's injury stuff

"We have had some players come to us at Arsenal from other clubs abroad and their red blood cell count has been abnormally high. That kind of thing makes you wonder. There are clubs who dope their players without the players knowing. The club might say that they were being injected with vitamins and the player would not necessarily know that it was something different."

I wouldn't put it past some clubs to dope their own players secretly

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 12 Mar 2014, 6:51 pm

Doping happens in football, why do you think the blood bags were destroyed in the Fuentes case?

Cos Spanish football is prevalent. Neymar came over, got randomly diagnosed with anaemia (dodgy). What's the best cure for that? Increase red blood cells. Doping

Why do you think Guardiola took all his old medical staff/doctors to Bayern?
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Post by CFCNick Wed 12 Mar 2014, 7:09 pm

Doping happens in every sport. We, as fans, just like to not mention it until it makes the news.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist Wed 12 Mar 2014, 7:31 pm

CFCNick wrote:Doping happens in every sport. We, as fans, just like to not mention it until it makes the news.

MUTU

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 12 Mar 2014, 7:37 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
CFCNick wrote:Doping happens in every sport. We, as fans, just like to not mention it until it makes the news.

MUTU

Yes he got done for cocaine at Chelsea, not doping that was at Fiorentina
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Post by Hammersmith harrier Wed 12 Mar 2014, 7:41 pm

I wonder how long Kolo Toure was on his dietary pills for?

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Post by socal1976 Wed 12 Mar 2014, 8:02 pm

"Nine first-team players are currently listed as injured on PhysioRoom.com, the highest of any side in the Premier League, and a quick search of seasons past shows that these worrying spates are nothing new."

Wait I thought arsenal had no injury crisis and did not have any injury issues any more than any other club. At least that is the load of crap dolph and liverbnz were selling us on The premier league thread. Liverbnz is still complaining about their back line being injured for two weeks at the start of the season

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Post by liverbnz Wed 12 Mar 2014, 8:07 pm

Hmm.. No I'm not.

And yes Arsenal do seem to have massive injury problems every year. Too often to be bad luck.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Wed 12 Mar 2014, 8:09 pm

Doesn't a side only have 9 first team players or that's what you said when I mentioned that Tottenham had 11 injured, you whined about them not being first team players. So why the sudden change of heart?

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Post by socal1976 Wed 12 Mar 2014, 8:51 pm

Liverbnz, it isn't bad luck it is the logical outcrop of the play book to play arsenal to be to kick them as nzonzi said for stoke.

HH, we counted their injuries and it wasn't 11. By the way during that spurs match arsenal had serious injuries of their own. Funny that you use spurs injury as an excuse for their loss to arsenal, but if arsenal fans talk about iinjuries you can't stand it. Yet you are happy to use spurs injuries as an excuse for them.

No team this year has had as many lengthy and bad injuries as the gunners. And I am talking serious injuries were the player misses like two months of the season or more.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Wed 12 Mar 2014, 8:57 pm

No it was 11, I made the mistake of saying it was 12 , it wasn't an excuse for Spurs it was merely pointing out the facts of the situation. You can say the same thing over and over again but you've got nothing to back up your claims aside from blind bias to Arsenal. Winding you up and pointing out your lies is much for fun than the foe function, the most pathetic pair of posters on the board.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 12 Mar 2014, 9:00 pm

Tbf the article makes a legit point, Arsenal do seem to get a lot of injuries year in year out. Guys like Diaby always had muscle injuries

I'm always thinking something is up at Norwich, as we have guys who get knocks who end up being out for months when the initial prognosis is weeks, with guys like RVW, Howson, Turner, Tettey, Snodgrass this year off the top of me head
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Post by socal1976 Wed 12 Mar 2014, 9:28 pm

It wasn't 11 or 12 players u pulled that out of arse and had to admit it.

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Post by socal1976 Wed 12 Mar 2014, 9:33 pm

Are u a united fan or an anti- arsenal troll?

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Wed 12 Mar 2014, 9:36 pm

I said it was 12 and it turned out to be 11, that is the reality of the situation Socal, I troll you for a giggle because you don't have a clue.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist Wed 12 Mar 2014, 9:48 pm

socal1976 wrote:Are u a united fan or an anti- arsenal troll?

He is a troll, he is just anti-arsenal because he is on the Wum, but what is funny is that he ends up getting upset when his wumming doesn't work.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Wed 12 Mar 2014, 9:57 pm

It works every time Dior, i'm just not sure you're smart to know when you've been played, I can say the smallest thing and the pair of you will go on an endless tirade.

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Post by socal1976 Wed 12 Mar 2014, 10:11 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
socal1976 wrote:Are u a united fan or an anti- arsenal troll?

He is a troll, he is just anti-arsenal because he is on the Wum, but what is funny is that he ends up getting upset when his wumming doesn't work.

CS, just like you I am going to ignore him. He has nothing interesting to say. I am going to take a page out of your playbook. Let him carrying on talking him to himself.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist Wed 12 Mar 2014, 10:50 pm

socal1976 wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
socal1976 wrote:Are u a united fan or an anti- arsenal troll?

He is a troll, he is just anti-arsenal because he is on the Wum, but what is funny is that he ends up getting upset when his wumming doesn't work.

CS, just like you I am going to ignore him. He has nothing interesting to say. I am going to take a page out of your playbook. Let him carrying on talking him to himself.

yep best to kist put him on your ignore list, he is not interested in serious debate and if you prove what he is saying is wrong he will just start insulting you. A few people on the boxing forum have put him on their ignore list as well.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 12 Mar 2014, 10:51 pm

Right ok guys back on track here

Do you not agree with some of the sentiments in that article? I mean you guys do seem to pick up more injuries than most.

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Post by socal1976 Thu 13 Mar 2014, 3:45 am

Olly it could be, but I find big holes in this guys story. First off Moyes has managed at Everton for a decade and we have not seen the rash of injuries at Everton or this year with Man U. He says that Moyes uses similar fatigue inducing training measures as Arsenal. If that is the case why is it that we didn't have these massive injury issues for Moyes at Everton? Second of all, I find his analysis to be lets say unscientific. There no facts other than his opinion to back it up. There are a lot of sports that are more fatiguing than football and we don't see the type of injuries suffered in them from quote simple fatigue. I don't doubt that muscle fatigue can contribute but the correlation he is drawing to me sounds very specious. To me this guy sounds like a Wales coach who is ticked off about the injury to Ramsey. I can't rule out what he is saying but there are some major holes that don't really add up. Plus even with Wenger this injury bug that Arsenal has had has been something that has really been prevalent lately. I don't remember players getting injured left and right early on in his career has he changed something?

Maybe the training methods contribute but I simply don't have enough information to conclude that they do or don't. And this guy doesn't provide a lot of information other than his own opinion.

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Post by socal1976 Thu 13 Mar 2014, 5:53 am

Now here is my own theory that i believe is more well supported by the facts as to why Arsenal has had a rash of injuries in recent years.

1. Arsenal foster technically gifted players and we know that technically gifted players that can run at people and cause defenders to be late or out of position get kicked and fouled more often. This is not a conspiracy it is the nature of the players Arsenal tries to groom, the tricky players are the ones that are going to get kicked more often than the more direct players or physical players.

2. Arsenal fosters young talent and plays younger players in a high intensity schedule that always features European play on top of the physical premier league. Young players are physically less able to put up with the bump and grind of the premier league. They don't have that experience that tells them when to pull out, when to jump over a challenge, and which balls simply to not go after because your might break something. Also their bodies aren't as strong and as used to the physicality.

3. A playbook has evolved in the premier league, as Nzonzi on Stoke came out and admitted that Arsenal don't like to get kicked and quote "we know that". When the gunners early on in Wenger's career had a lot more hard men like Viera and Adams who wouldn't stand for it, but we have had very few players like that recently. The book is out and all the premier league teams know that if you want to beat Arsenal kick them about the pitch. Especially, the lower ranked sides are looking to rough up the gunners. This is well known and the officials, fans, and media basically tolerate it if not actually encourage and enable it.

To me this is a more logical explanation as to why Arsenal suffers injuries as opposed to their players being tired as the opinion of one coach suggests. Maybe Arsenal could train better and the training is part of the answer, it isn't like it has to be one of the other all of these factors could be present. i personally think every major athlete should employ a rigorous yoga training technique to lengthen and strengthen their muscles. If i was a manager of a football team I would make my players do Yoga stretching and strengthening as much as they would play 7 on 7 or work on set pieces.

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Post by liverbnz Thu 13 Mar 2014, 7:15 am

Socal, if you don't mind could you resist from quoting me on things I didn't say. Ta.

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Post by CFCNick Thu 13 Mar 2014, 7:19 am

So when is the movie coming out? You know, Socal and/or C_S vs the World!

Which one of you is Ramona Flowers?

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Thu 13 Mar 2014, 7:37 am

socal1976 wrote:"Nine first-team players are currently listed as injured on PhysioRoom.com, the highest of any side in the Premier League, and a quick search of seasons past shows that these worrying spates are nothing new."

Wait I thought arsenal had no injury crisis and did not have any injury issues any more than any other club. At least that is the load of crap dolph and liverbnz were selling us on The premier league thread. Liverbnz is still complaining about their back line being injured for two weeks at the start of the season

Diaby, Kallstrom, Sanogo, Bendtner are 4 of those you pleb. Combined with Gibbs (just, just first choice), Wilshere (made of glass) and Ozil (injured since those conversations) then I'm happy with spout the crap I come up with against anything you think you say in honest faith about Arsenal.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Thu 13 Mar 2014, 7:45 am

Of your injuries:

Wilshere kicked Agger, Diaby is worse than Wilshere for injuries, Kallstrom was injured before his move, Ramsey and Walcott were both definitely not kicked to injury, Ozil did his hamstring. So maybe 3 of the 9 could have been injured thanks to this Stoke like "playbook". If you're gonna come at me with your facts then learn to read.

The point you'll fall back on, I'm sure, is the middle one about youth (even though you seem to call it on not knowing when to avoid tackles). How many of those can be considered inexperienced, young players? Sanogo, surely? Ramsey, Gibbs n Walcott have been around long enough now to be past this immaturity, Walcott and Gibbs are 24 so are past the young days.

When youve got no centre backs, no wingers and no striker then I'll have sympathy, but as you undoubtedly didnt notice West Ham's injury problems this year then I'll be happy to let you know that since we had our major "crisis" you have since taken our Head of Sports Science http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/15/arsenal-head-sport-science-west-ham

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Post by socal1976 Thu 13 Mar 2014, 12:21 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Of your injuries:

Wilshere kicked Agger, Diaby is worse than Wilshere for injuries, Kallstrom was injured before his move, Ramsey and Walcott were both definitely not kicked to injury, Ozil did his hamstring. So maybe 3 of the 9 could have been injured thanks to this Stoke like "playbook". If you're gonna come at me with your facts then learn to read.

The point you'll fall back on, I'm sure, is the middle one about youth (even though you seem to call it on not knowing when to avoid tackles). How many of those can be considered inexperienced, young players? Sanogo, surely? Ramsey, Gibbs n Walcott have been around long enough now to be past this immaturity, Walcott and Gibbs are 24 so are past the young days.

When youve got no centre backs, no wingers and no striker then I'll have sympathy, but as you undoubtedly didnt notice West Ham's injury problems this year then I'll be happy to let you know that since we had our major "crisis" you have since taken our Head of Sports Science http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/15/arsenal-head-sport-science-west-ham


Funny, you claimed that Arsenal had no injury crisis seems like the guy who wrote this article disagreed and mentions said crisis. If you are going to PMS like HH there is no point in talking to you.

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Post by socal1976 Thu 13 Mar 2014, 12:33 pm

PS if you bothered to read my post you would see that I cite a number of different reasons that "could" be the cause of the recent injury troubles at Arsenal. The reasons could be to poor training, the nature of Arsenal's players, the fact that they play young players in intense schedules more often than big clubs, and the Stoke playbook. No where do I put it down to them solely or principally having the injuries due to Stoke playbook.

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Post by CFCNick Thu 13 Mar 2014, 1:06 pm

Arsenal aren't a young team anymore. Their average age is 25. Only two years younger than Chelsea.

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Post by socal1976 Thu 13 Mar 2014, 1:10 pm

CFCNick wrote:Arsenal aren't a young team anymore. Their average age is 25. Only two years younger than Chelsea.

Maybe you could read the article Nick, it talks about the injuries the team has suffered over the past few seasons actually past 10 years. They were a young team during the period in time that this article discusses. And two years on average being younger is a big difference in football.

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Post by CFCNick Thu 13 Mar 2014, 1:15 pm

It's really not a big difference. 5 years is a big difference.

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Post by PaulHv2 Thu 13 Mar 2014, 1:21 pm

Ahh boo hoo Arsenal get more injuries than any other team boo hoo. It's complete hogwash, you only see it that way because you're an Arsenal fan.

Liverpool have had all of these out injured.

Agger
Sahko
Johnson
Enrique
Gerrard
Lucas
Sturridge

3 of those players are usually starters in defence, Liverpool have coped. If Arsenal can't cope then it says they have a very good starting eleven but a lack of depth in key areas.
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Post by socal1976 Thu 13 Mar 2014, 1:51 pm

hampo171 wrote:Ahh boo hoo Arsenal get more injuries than any other team boo hoo. It's complete hogwash, you only see it that way because you're an Arsenal fan.

Liverpool have had all of these out injured.

Agger
Sahko
Johnson
Enrique
Gerrard
Lucas
Sturridge

3 of those players are usually starters in defence, Liverpool have coped. If Arsenal can't cope then it says they have a very good starting eleven but a lack of depth in key areas.

How long did those injuries last? Gerrard and Sturridge have played basically the entire season with relatively short injury spells. Who has missed more time Sturridge or Theo? There basically isn't a premier league player who plays a full schedule. I don't know enough about those other players to make any conclusions without looking them up. I am talking about injuries that last couple of months or more, that are serious, long term injuries.

By the way, I didn't post an article on Arsenal's injuries, Olly did and he isn't an ARsenal fan. It is is pretty funny that a non-Arsenal fan posts an article about the reasons for Arsenal's injury crisis by a journalist and then asks our opinions on this thread. I give my opinion and I get called a cry baby. Someone asked a question and posted an outside source which referenced Arsenal's injury issues over the years. I didn't post it, I didn't write the article, I gave my thinking when asked about the subject.

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Post by Guest Thu 13 Mar 2014, 1:59 pm

Whether you wrote it or responded to it SoCal...it doesn't matter mate, you still come across like a f*****g cry-baby.

It's only football...bloody hell, I'd love Liverpool to get a top four spot and get back to being the Kings of English football like way back when I started following them as a boy. However if it doesn't happen I'll be disappointed but I'm sure I'll live.

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Post by PaulHv2 Thu 13 Mar 2014, 2:02 pm

socal1976 wrote:
hampo171 wrote:Ahh boo hoo Arsenal get more injuries than any other team boo hoo. It's complete hogwash, you only see it that way because you're an Arsenal fan.

Liverpool have had all of these out injured.

Agger
Sahko
Johnson
Enrique
Gerrard
Lucas
Sturridge

3 of those players are usually starters in defence, Liverpool have coped. If Arsenal can't cope then it says they have a very good starting eleven but a lack of depth in key areas.

How long did those injuries last? Gerrard and Sturridge have played basically the entire season with relatively short injury spells. Who has missed more time Sturridge or Theo?  There basically isn't a premier league player who plays a full schedule. I don't know enough about those other players to make any conclusions without looking them up. I am talking about injuries that last couple of months or more, that are serious, long term injuries.

By the way, I didn't post an article on Arsenal's injuries, Olly did and he isn't an ARsenal fan. It is is pretty funny that a non-Arsenal fan posts an article about the reasons for Arsenal's injury crisis by a journalist and then asks our opinions on this thread. I give my opinion and I get called a cry baby. Someone asked a question and posted an outside source which referenced Arsenal's injury issues over the years. I didn't post it, I didn't write the article, I gave my thinking when asked about the subject.

You've pointed out two players, what about Lucas? Still out at the moment, Agger still isn't fit, Enrique still not playing and Johnson missed a number of games as well. Surely having three key defenders out for any part of the season is bad enough?

Arsenal don't have strength in depth, and that's why they'll struggle. Wengers belief that buying younger players will work was always going to cause this as not every young talented player lives up to expectations.
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Post by socal1976 Thu 13 Mar 2014, 2:39 pm

DAVE667 wrote:Whether you wrote it or responded to it SoCal...it doesn't matter mate, you still come across like a f*****g cry-baby.

It's only football...bloody hell, I'd love Liverpool to get a top four spot and get back to being the Kings of English football like way back when I started following them as a boy. However if it doesn't happen I'll be disappointed but I'm sure I'll live.

.
Oh you would love to get a top 4 spot, so basically you would love if Liverpool failed like Arsenal by qualifying for the Champion's league. I thought a top 4 spot and not winning a trophy was a sign of failure? In the last few years you guys haven't burned up the trophy case either but I don't see a constant sea of critics calling you failures and I wouldn't either. If Arsenal are failures then what about Liverpool? Your last major honor was 2006, guess what one year after our last trophy. And in that time you guys have pretty much with the exception of a couple years with benitez finished behind Arsenal. I don't come onto the premier league thread and constantly disrespect your club.

And as for Arsenal I would support them if they never won anything and if they won everything or didn't win anything it wouldn't change my life at all. I don't live vicariously through the success or failures of the teams or athletes I follow.

And Ok so kill me for responding to Olly's question and the article he posted.

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Post by socal1976 Thu 13 Mar 2014, 2:43 pm

hampo171 wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
hampo171 wrote:Ahh boo hoo Arsenal get more injuries than any other team boo hoo. It's complete hogwash, you only see it that way because you're an Arsenal fan.

Liverpool have had all of these out injured.

Agger
Sahko
Johnson
Enrique
Gerrard
Lucas
Sturridge

3 of those players are usually starters in defence, Liverpool have coped. If Arsenal can't cope then it says they have a very good starting eleven but a lack of depth in key areas.

How long did those injuries last? Gerrard and Sturridge have played basically the entire season with relatively short injury spells. Who has missed more time Sturridge or Theo?  There basically isn't a premier league player who plays a full schedule. I don't know enough about those other players to make any conclusions without looking them up. I am talking about injuries that last couple of months or more, that are serious, long term injuries.

By the way, I didn't post an article on Arsenal's injuries, Olly did and he isn't an ARsenal fan. It is is pretty funny that a non-Arsenal fan posts an article about the reasons for Arsenal's injury crisis by a journalist and then asks our opinions on this thread. I give my opinion and I get called a cry baby. Someone asked a question and posted an outside source which referenced Arsenal's injury issues over the years. I didn't post it, I didn't write the article, I gave my thinking when asked about the subject.

You've pointed out two players, what about Lucas? Still out at the moment, Agger still isn't fit, Enrique still not playing and Johnson missed a number of games as well. Surely having three key defenders out for any part of the season is bad enough?

Arsenal don't have strength in depth, and that's why they'll struggle. Wengers belief that buying younger players will work was always going to cause this as not every young talented player lives up to expectations.

Nothing approaching what Arsenal have had. Agger just played an international match and has been playing for you guys. Again I am talking lengthy injuries like months at time. And I am even reticent to playing the boobie for tat game because frankly the more I talk about it and respond to people the more abuse it seems to engender. I didn't know responding to other people's posts and questions about Arsenal's injuries was a crime against man and nature. Personally, injuries should be discussed as part of the game, they impact results and only a fool who doesn't understand sports would think it isn't a fair part of analyzing a sport.

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Post by CFCNick Thu 13 Mar 2014, 2:50 pm

Liverpool won the League Cup in 2012. Reached two other finals too. UCL 07 & FA Cup 12.

The fact they're not called a failure is because they dipped from being an elite club a long time ago. Arsenal were an elite team until the end of 05-06 and have still been just below elite ever since.

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