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England Prop Factor....who's the present and who's the future England Front Row?

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Post by kingelderfield Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:17 am

First topic message reminder :

work in progress........but undoubtedly this is where it's at as far as England's future chances are concerned.

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Post by Chjw131 Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:CHJ

Im not doubting his ability. I think Corbs is World Class...a complete prop. My issues are...that taking a player with known injury issues and barely any games this season on a tour of NZ is only risking potential injury again.

Give him the full summer with Saints to confirm the injuries are fixed, and then allow Saints to bring him in slowly in tandem with Waller. If he comes through well then he may get called up by England again.

This way our other two main LH's Marler and Vunipola get a continued education in top international rugby in the the homeland of the best team. And Corbs "understudy" Waller may well get some exposure aswell.

England win Both ways if you ask me.

I would completely agree if that were the choice. Of course he has to be cleared fit to play and that doesn't mean he could manage a few games but that he's genuinely fit to resume his career. If that is the case, and given his run if injuries I would assume that's exactly how they'll be looking at it, then he should play and get the game time.

No I wouldn't play him if the choice were play in NZ with a risk of injury. Game time is what he badly needs though.

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Post by Chjw131 Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:18 pm

At least we're not in the same position as the SA tour a couple of years back where he was desperately needed and rushed back too soon.

This time it's different, in the main thanks to the sterling work of Joe Marler.

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Post by Geordie Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:23 pm

The other thing aswell CHJ, is that whilst i agree Corbs is No.1, i actually dont think we are losing that much with Marler and too a lesser extent Vunipola in there.

Marler has been seriously good in all his recent games...and received very little ackowledgement or praise. He is fast becoming a top class prop...

Vunipola is also progressing nicely but just behind Marler in my eyes at the moment.

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Post by kingelderfield Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:51 pm

kingelderfield wrote:
Chjw131 wrote:Waller has looked very able when he's been playing for Saints. I don't know how much further he will progress though and does he have that edge in one area?

I think it's more likely Mullan will be the third LH if Corbs doesn't make it on tour. He's actually high quality and has suffered from being in a couple of poor teams. His work-rate is very high.

At TH for me it has to be D.Wilson, Thomas and Brookes at the moment. But Sinckler could be a bolter.

Have to say Sinckler has caught the eye both times I've seen him. He's VERY green so will make plenty of mistakes but it would be great news if he's a real find?

Friday night is looking very interesting especially if Marler Sinckler and Thomas all get starts.

Marler and Sinckler start, Thomas is on the bench.

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Post by Geordie Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:36 am

Its interesting that some of the young guns we were talking about a few years ago appear to be starting to come through. Soon our propping stables could be very good indeed...to match our second row batch.

Just back row to sort out and our resources in the pack will be quite formidable i think.

Catt at Bath (a little later than planned) starting to show form.
Sinkler starting regularly for Quins.
Scott Wilson not starting yet but playing regularly for us and has a Saxons cap.
Henry Thomas has been with the England squad a while now...and despite queries over his actual scrummaging has done very well so far when he's came on.

The only one i havent heard much from is Knight at Gloucester...whats the crack with him?

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Post by Slow and Sedate Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:08 pm

There is also the other Waller brother at Saints - Ethan?  I know he's only just started and has a long way to go, but from what I've seen, albeit limited, he looks a very good prospect, perhaps better than his bro.

If Mullan goes he needs to show that he can hack it at international level.  I'm yet to be convinced.

Corbs is a worry.  Can his knee problem be sorted?  It seems to only last a few matches and he realistically needs to be fit for the next 18 months if he is to play in the world cup.

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Post by Geordie Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:18 pm

Slow and Sedate wrote:There is also the other Waller brother at Saints - Ethan?  I know he's only just started and has a long way to go, but from what I've seen, albeit limited, he looks a very good prospect, perhaps better than his bro.

If Mullan goes he needs to show that he can hack it at international level. I'm yet to be convinced.

Corbs is a worry.  Can his knee problem be sorted?  It seems to only last a few matches and he realistically needs to be fit for the next 18 months if he is to play in the world cup.

He's barely had a chance to be fair. I think hes a good player. But maybe Waller will take over.

But they all have to get past Corbs (If he ever returns), Marler and Vunipola.

Should Corbs not make it back then its wide open for that third LH spot.

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Post by jelly Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:55 am

Corbs should be available for the game against Bath, in three weekends time, according to the Times today.


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Post by Poorfour Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:12 am

jelly wrote:Corbs should be available for the game against Bath, in three weekends time, according to the Times today.


That's good news. So he could conceivably have 3-5 games before the tour - 2 AP rounds, a semi and a final, and possibly the Amlin final as well. 4 games on the trot would probably long enough to prove his fitness; if there's no reaction from the knee in that time I think it would be better for him to tour than not. If there's any kind of niggle I'd say he should focus on his pre-season and aim to have a good run into the AIs.

In the meantime, Marler went off with some kind of shoulder problem against Sale. No indication how serious it was and it's quite possible it was precautionary as the game was already won, but having gone off under his own steam he did go straight down the tunnel rather than into the stands. No mention of it in the press afterwards so fingers crossed it's not too serious. Another mature showing by Sinckler, though, who lasted 70 odd minutes. He's likely to face some real tests against Tigers (albeit it looks like they might be without Mulipola), Saints and Bath in the next 3 weeks.
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Post by LondonTiger Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:19 am

I thought Mullan scrummaged really well this weekend, though admittedly up against Leicesters 3rd choice TH

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Post by Geordie Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:19 am

Would you take Corbs on the tour?

I still dont think i would. I would let him finish the season, and then have another cracking summer and pre-season and hopefully he'll be firing.

That way Marler, Vunipola and A.Nother get another chance and taking on the best in their own back yard. Gaining yet more valuable experience.


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Post by LondonTiger Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:29 am

I would not take him on tour. We have seen what rushing him back does. England and Saints need to manage him very carefully for whatever remains of his career.

Kiwi news media seem to suggest Dan Cole may be fit to tour - but again I would say he needs a summer at home more. And england need to identify the backups to him and DaveyW

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Post by Geordie Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:32 am

Yeah i agree LT, i wouldnt take Cole either.

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Post by Poorfour Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:31 am

Cole's reported that his injury was wear and tear brought on by constant play. This summer would be his last chance to rest and let it heal. I'd hope he'll be allowed that chance.

Corbs is different - if there's any hint of recurrence he shouldn't travel. If he's in good shape at the end of the season we need to see that he can string a sequence of games together.
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Post by Geordie Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:59 am

The thing about the Corbs situation is that we dont need to rush him back. We have two young lads who are improving almost by the game.

Ive praised Marler alot through the 6n...i really think the lad is getting better and better. Indeed he himself is becoming a complete prop like Corbs was. Vunipola also is fighting for that spot.

Add in Mullan who is a very good LH and young Waller and thats a good mix to take to NZ, whilst letting Corbs get in a great pre season.

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Post by Poorfour Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:14 pm

GF, I'd be happy if that were to happen, but I'd also be happy for him to travel if, and only if, he's fully fit. Lancaster will need a large squad and Marler and Vunipola have both had fairly intense seasons so happy to see the workload shared.
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