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The Official *England's Journey to Brazil 2014* Thread

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Post by Calder106 Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:35 am

Wilshere out for 6 weeks according to BBC. Hairline fracture on foot. Considering Arsenal have been nursing him through the season because of his ankle injuries I think it would be a risk taking him (not questioning his ability) due to the tight schedule of games.

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Post by Duty281 Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:40 am

Ah an injury to the foot. Always the centrepiece, seemingly, of the build-up to a major international tournament with England.

Six weeks though? Probably wasn't the best idea for him to play on for so long yesterday after that challenge. Should still be fine though for the summer.

Back in mid-April. One or two games for Arsenal before the season ends. He'll be fine.

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Post by Guest Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:45 am

Not a particulary big fan of wilshere, he's done nothing in an england shirt, only completed 90 mins on two occassions. not good enough & he's too fragile.

so basically for the summer,

vs strong opposition, roy will go for the defensive abilities of his wingers, he always has & a more stable central partnership who can defend & springboard the counter attack with accurate passing. no point in playing wilshere when you will be conceding most of the possession.

- - - - - - Sturridge- - - - - -

Welbeck- -Rooney- - Milner

- - - -Gerrard- Carrick- - - -

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

vs weaker opposition, roy will go for the wide attacking options with pace who don't defend aswell. wilshere to play instead of carrick as he can provide penetration when we have more possession against the weaker sides.

- - - - Sturridge- - - - -

Oxlade- -Rooney- -Sterling

- - -Gerrard- Wilshere- -

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:50 am

I doubt he'll change his team that much for one game (basing it on Costa Rica being the weaker team) especially when its so damn vital we win the game.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:53 am

Duty281 wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Townsend has had about three good weeks this season. That's all. He's very one-dimensional as a player, and I can't imagine too many defenders being scared of him.

For Townsend say Sterling and the point remains. One of these has been fantastic in an England shirt though, yet hes being slated now because got injured and people forgot about him.

We have one standout winger, Walcott (and even hes brainless) and he's out. Whisper it quietly on here, but I'd play Welbeck over any of our options.

From what I've seen of Sterling, though, is that he's a far greater threat than Townsend on the ball, and has much higher potential.

Welbeck on the left? He's not the worst option there, but I'd much rather play Oxlade.

I love Welbeck's interplay and natural brain, his feet just let him down occasionally (a bit of a problem in such a game, I'm sure we agree)

To me Sterling looks like SWP and Lennon at that age, all pace no product. Townsend for me is the one who could be special. Eye for goal, moves between lines better and is explosive rather than just fast. Think his left foot makes him that extra bit more difficult to play against, he goes inside and out, and frankly he seems like much more of a matchwinner.

Although it shows the real paucity of actual quality when I would choose slower, more central players to play out wide because I think they're that much better.

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Post by Geordie Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:02 am

Im not upset about Wilshires inury either...infact is the lad ever fit?

Duty you really would actually start Milner??

Well in all honesty its irrelevant anyway as we wont get out the group.

If i were Roy id just pick all the kids...take them to the world cup and let them loose...then they'll have a full experience for the Euros.

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Post by Guest Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:05 am

I think the kids will get the euro 2016 qualifying campaign to show their class, I mean it's an appaling group of no quality & two go through automatically. You need the experience in Brazil along with the youth.

As for Wilshere, he's injury prone which is unfortunate. For me, he'll never recover fully from that ankle injury. You can't build anything around this kid because his fitness is just not there. The future of England centrally is Barkley. As for Milner, he will play the key games because of his engine & defensive abilities, especially in the heat.

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Post by Duty281 Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:43 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Im not upset about Wilshires inury either...infact is the lad ever fit?

Duty you really would actually start Milner??

Well in all honesty its irrelevant anyway as we wont get out the group.

If i were Roy id just pick all the kids...take them to the world cup and let them loose...then they'll have a full experience for the Euros.

Won't get out of the group? Laugh

Don't fall into a trap of underestimating England. Talking rubbish like "pick all the kids" would probably ensure we'd fall at the group stage, as well as the fact that those youngsters would be mentally injured, as it were, for future tournaments.

And yes, Milner to start. Unless Lallana or Sterling is on a hot streak of form by the time we play Italy, of course. That seems unlikely. Go with reliable James, and stick Sterling on with half an hour to go against a tiring Italian defence.

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Post by Geordie Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:53 am

Nonsence...they wouldnt be mentally injured at all...kids have no fear....they go out and enjoy the experience and would have a go at the other teams in our group....and would do better than having a player like Milner on the flank that offers absolutely nothing what soever.

Look, im not saying we cant have a defensive solid experienced player in there...but for me thats suited to the holding midfielder role...the Deschamp, dunga role. Not for the wings...wingers should be the exciting skilled, pacy players that get you on the offensive...taking the game to the opposition.

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Post by Guest Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:30 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Nonsence...they wouldnt be mentally injured at all...kids have no fear....they go out and enjoy the experience and would have a go at the other teams in our group....and would do better than having a player like Milner on the flank that offers absolutely nothing what soever.

Milner plays because he has a great work ethic & engine, crucial in a wide player nowadays. Just look at Ribery & Robben. Hodgson likes to remain tight & compact & Milner is crucial to that. Why do you think we were the best defence in Euro 2012? We surrender possession because we are not good enough, therefore, the best tactic to employ is too sit back, absorb the attacks & then counter attack with pace. Standard Roy, standard England tactics that will be employed against the better teams. Same with Welbeck on the opposite side, great engine & can cover the full back who will need protecting. Just look at Sturridge last night, woeful playing out-wide in that role & can't or won't defend. Against Denmark you don't get punished, against Chile or Germany, you do. Simple.

As for just playing the kids, would be a mistake. You have to have a blend of experience & youthful exuberance. At significant important stages of a game, experience & decision making of a 'been there, done it' player like Milner or Gerrard is priceless. The youth will get their chance of course, however, the full transition away from Gerrard, Lampard & Cole won't come until the Euro 2016 qualifying campaign.


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Post by Duty281 Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:38 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Nonsence...they wouldnt be mentally injured at all...kids have no fear....they go out and enjoy the experience and would have a go at the other teams in our group....and would do better than having a player like Milner on the flank that offers absolutely nothing what soever.

Look, im not saying we cant have a defensive solid experienced player in there...but for me thats suited to the holding midfielder role...the Deschamp, dunga role. Not for the wings...wingers should be the exciting skilled, pacy players that get you on the offensive...taking the game to the opposition.

Enjoy the experience? This is the bloody World Cup, the biggest stage of them all, and you want to use it as a bleedin' rehearsal for Euro 2016. It's not a holiday camp. You lay everything on the line and don't have any excuses when all is said and done. You play your best team available. There is no short-term or long-term where the World Cup is concerned - it's all or nothing, do or die, once more unto the breach, a player's finest hour, and the pinnacle of football as a whole for the players and coaching staff.

And do we have any of these such wingers? I'm not sure what Townsend or Sterling will achieve that Milner won't. Raw pace will only take you so far, in the case of Sterling. Cutting in and having a shot ditto, in the case of Townsend.


Last edited by Duty281 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:30 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by CFCNick Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:27 am

I agree with Duty. You have to go all out. There's 24 months between the World Cup and Euro 2016. If you have to use older players who won't be there in France then you use them. In US sports terms those kind of players are called rentals. You acquire them to make a run at the title even if you know they never play for you after the current run. That's how we should view the likes of Gerrard, Lampard and Cole. They won't play in Euro 2016 but they are better options than the other players we have available.

Kids have no fear? You'd fool me if I hadn't seen Lukaku trying to get away from Drogba's shadow.

Kids also have no experience and when they come back from a couple of defeats and elimination they'll take it 100c harder than Lampard, Gerrard, Cole, etc.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:54 am

Lampard isnt worth his place in the squad on ability, let alone the continuous blocking of younger talent. At the end of the day, what shadow are they casting? Failure.

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Post by CFCNick Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:58 am

But older players losing is better than the younger players going and being blown away by the experienced Italy and Uruguay sides. Having the younger players go and get smashed will be far more damaging to the teams future than not sending them.

And Lampard has been excellent this season. Surely worth a place. I wouldn't start him but I'd 100% take him.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:15 am

I agree with Dolph, would much rather take Barkley/Henderson ahead of Lampard

And young players make of defeat what they want. If they want to go into their shells and cower away then they ain't the players I want in my side. But some will learn from such things
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Post by CFCNick Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:22 am

It's a fact in all sports young players lose up to 50% confidence when eliminated compared to veterans.

Just seen someone on nfluk suggest Shelvey goes. Good lord he can't be serious.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:50 am

Lampard has been outplayed this season by at least 6 English central midfielders. Equally, thats really not a quantifiable fact. Its baseless, contextless and pointless.

Hes not good enough, he has no experience of winning with England to draw on, a Barkley or a Henderson will learn more being backup than the benefit of Lampard sitting there.

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Post by CFCNick Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:59 am

Lampard is a winner. He knows how to handle high pressure situations. Barkley and Henderson have even been in one high pressure situation that could compare to any Lampard has played in.

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Post by NickisBHAFC Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:05 am

Only just heard about this online petition thing for Cleverly. 

Disgraceful. Yes, people have opinions on the lad, i am very negative about him, but to do a petition for him not to be selected for his country, is simply disgraceful. Hope those idiots are proud of themselves and Tom takes no notice.

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Post by GSC Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:14 am

He's garbage, who cares
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:20 am

NickisBHAFC wrote:Only just heard about this online petition thing for Cleverly. 

Disgraceful. Yes, people have opinions on the lad, i am very negative about him, but to do a petition for him not to be selected for his country, is simply disgraceful. Hope those idiots are proud of themselves and Tom takes no notice.

*and continues to let games pass him by whilst being rubbish
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Post by Fernando Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:22 am

If you want someone to sit infront of the defense why not take Gareth Barry? In decent form at Everton.

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Post by NickisBHAFC Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:24 am

Yeah he's rubbish, i agree. But to do something like an online petition is just beyond harsh. Probably a bunch of idiots that are jealous that he is a pro footballer and they aren't.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:28 am

NickisBHAFC wrote:Yeah he's rubbish, i agree. But to do something like an online petition is just beyond harsh. Probably a bunch of idiots that are jealous that he is a pro footballer and they aren't.

I'm sure a few people writing some bad words about him on the internet is really tearing away at his insides as bangs this

The Official *England's Journey to Brazil 2014* Thread 40_2012092112010804
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Post by Duty281 Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:06 am

Olly wrote:
NickisBHAFC wrote:Yeah he's rubbish, i agree. But to do something like an online petition is just beyond harsh. Probably a bunch of idiots that are jealous that he is a pro footballer and they aren't.

I'm sure a few people writing some bad words about him on the internet is really tearing away at his insides as bangs this

The Official *England's Journey to Brazil 2014* Thread 40_2012092112010804

Ah so that explains why his mind is never on the football...can't say I blame him in all fairness.

Punching above his weight in career and love - well done Tom.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:26 pm

To be honest if you are a Pro top level footballer and cant pull a stunner there has to be something seriously wrong with you!!


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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:05 pm

CFCNick wrote:Lampard is a winner. He knows how to handle high pressure situations. Barkley and Henderson have even been in one high pressure situation that could compare to any Lampard has played in.

Yet has always bottled it for England. Equally, when do they get to learn about high pressure situations? I would rather a better player came onto the pitch rather than taking Lampard cos he might not get nervous. And I'd rather they learn too. I'd rather they learn about the squad experience at a World Cup, about the pressure of games, pushing for places in the national team. And I rather their ability was on hand when it was needed.

I dont see the point in having him there. We have other experienced players who have more impact on the actual pitch. We've got a psychologist for mental things, I don't think Frank is going to offer much.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:07 pm

"Yet has always bottled it for England"

Well great goal v Germany to level it at 2-2

oh wait....


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Post by mystiroakey Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:09 pm

I think Lamps will be a player if we do need a goal last 20 will be a great experienced head that wont get nervous and will pull that trigger rather than over playing it..

But long term. We wont win so why use him when he wont be first choice.. There are many other subs that could be given the experience and could offer some impact.


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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:18 pm

mystiroakey wrote:"Yet has always bottled it for England"

Well great goal v Germany to level it at 2-2

oh wait....


In a game we got absolutely blown away in too. Lampard was a very good player, still is a good player, always a *naughty word* in my eyes, but I don't think we gain anything having him in the squad this year.

I'd quite happily have Gerrard as the only representation of the "Golden Generation" as the one who was always the best and has remained that way too.

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Post by Stella Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:19 pm

Played well in Euro 2004 as well. I know he's ex west ham, but I wouldn't say he's always bottled it.
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Post by mystiroakey Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:21 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:"Yet has always bottled it for England"

Well great goal v Germany to level it at 2-2

oh wait....


In a game we got absolutely blown away in too. Lampard was a very good player, still is a good player, always a *naughty word* in my eyes, but I don't think we gain anything having him in the squad this year.

I'd quite happily have Gerrard as the only representation of the "Golden Generation" as the one who was always the best and has remained that way too.

well we didn't in the first half- but anyway- point is under immense pressure he did 'level it'...

I agree about Gerrard. TBH i didn't really think he merited a place but his recent club form and his form in that friendly was decent enough for him to stay on as captain. His new deeper role works for him and can for england- the problem is finding his partner.. Henderson didnt exactly shine did he..

I am surprised that Hodgson played the team i had previously picked(bar smalling- seriously wtf was he doing that game, and to be fair that's how he has being playing for united so Roy i dont understand why you played him)

He just didn't play my shape of keeping Sturridge up top and have Rooney behind..

We looked a lot better when welbeck came on and rooney went off.. The balance was better.. and Sturridge got a few good opps at goal and off course scored one

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:04 pm

I think its a conundrum, but I don't pay massive details to the game when it comes to friendlies. The benefit is the training.

For this reason I hope Chelsea or City trounce home in the league, and no English side goes far in Europe. Have a rest, get to the training camps ready to actually train.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:12 pm

Well I think Roy really wanted a win in that game friendly or no friendly..

I think we are close to finding the team..

Not sure about starting Rooney any more. But I cant see Roy having the balls to drop him..

Lallana has made a great case to start.. sterling as well. wilshire not bothered about him on current form and fitness. I cant believe Roy kept him playing after that knock..Bang out of order in a friendly- but probably proves how much he wanted the team to win

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:51 pm

I thought Sterling was shocking and just highlighted how poor our natural wingers are

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Post by mystiroakey Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:53 pm

Really- i though he looked really good. My concern was that every time he got close to the box he then shyed away from it. He has quick feet- chances are he goes in to the box he is going to get a chance or a penalty

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Post by Stella Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:54 pm

Sterling got MOM in one paper, but I must admit, thought he played just ok.
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Post by mystiroakey Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:58 pm

Tough to pick out a man of the match. If Schemical had secured a clean sheet he would have got it.. Other than that Lallana and shaw looked the best but didn't play long enough.

I think Gerrard probally deserved the accolade, But again no problem with sterling getting it. Was busy- but just he looked nervous when getting close to the box..

Shaw and lallana both proved to provide better deliveries when they came on

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Post by dyrewolfe Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:44 pm

Duty281 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Nonsence...they wouldnt be mentally injured at all...kids have no fear....they go out and enjoy the experience and would have a go at the other teams in our group....and would do better than having a player like Milner on the flank that offers absolutely nothing what soever.

Look, im not saying we cant have a defensive solid experienced player in there...but for me thats suited to the holding midfielder role...the Deschamp, dunga role. Not for the wings...wingers should be the exciting skilled, pacy players that get you on the offensive...taking the game to the opposition.

Enjoy the experience? This is the bloody World Cup, the biggest stage of them all, and you want to use it as a bleedin' rehearsal for Euro 2016. It's not a holiday camp. You lay everything on the line and don't have any excuses when all is said and done. You play your best team available. There is no short-term or long-term where the World Cup is concerned - it's all or nothing, do or die, once more unto the breach, a player's finest hour, and the pinnacle of football as a whole for the players and coaching staff.

And do we have any of these such wingers? I'm not sure what Townsend or Sterling will achieve that Milner won't. Raw pace will only take you so far, in the case of Sterling. Cutting in and having a shot ditto, in the case of Townsend.

Unfortunately, for the last decade or so, I've had the distinct impression that England's players, whether senior or junior, DO view World Cups and Euros as something of a holiday...especially the ones whose club managers may have had a quiet word in their ears beforehand.

Of course, I'm not blaming the players entirely...we've had plenty of curious management decisions over the last few tournaments, but get the feeling England players just don't have the mentality for big tournaments. Whereas most other players develop a laser-like focus and intensity, ours seem to get distracted too easily, or else just can't get their heads right for whatever reason. And then of course there's the skill factor. WCs and Euros often seem to highlight our players' lack of skill and technique. If we can't win through pace, power and aerial superiority, we're generally doomed.

Thats why I'm not getting my hopes up this time...apologies for being a buzzkill... Sorry
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Post by NickisBHAFC Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:40 am

I wouldn't say Sterling was shocking, but he certainly didn't set the world on fire. As much as i don't rate the lad, Andros Townsend, has been the only winger i can think of that has played well for England in the last few years. Walcott always shocking for England, Sterling wasn't great, Lennon don't get me started, Young never does anything.

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Post by Stella Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:45 am

Walcott did score a hat-trick vs Croatia, in an important game. He would have been in my squad, no doubts.
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Post by NickisBHAFC Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:47 am

Wasn't that back in 2008. Long time ago. But i would start Walcott ahead of the others. 

As for now i would still go for Sterling. But i wish they would do the 5,3,2 formation.

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Post by mystiroakey Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:55 am

walcott would have started- one of our best players by far.  So underrated..

has allways performed well against better teams for club and yes even country!

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:59 am

What he offers is a goal threat. Walcott does score goals, although his technique is lacking, he just naturally sees chances and scores goals. Walcott would have nabbed the goal Sterling missed

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Post by CFCNick Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:01 am

I'm a Walcott fan. I don't want Townsend anywhere near this team. He had one good month and has been sh¡te since scoring for England.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:13 am

Yeah Theo would've been good to have on the wing and as potential option up front. As Dolph says he has a nack of scoring (and picks up quite a few assists as well)
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Post by mystiroakey Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:14 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:What he offers is a goal threat. Walcott does score goals, although his technique is lacking, he just naturally sees chances and scores goals. Walcott would have nabbed the goal Sterling missed

He makes really good runs as well behind defenders. And his delivery has improved ten fold.

Yes the ball doesn't stick to his feet like it does for say lallana, he doesn't have his technical ability- but he has as you say an instinct for goal and good vision and serious pace

And i think many forget that his recent form has been at his highest level of his career but blighted by the last and this injury spell. Walcott doesn't strike me as an England player when on form not to perform . I just think he has been unlucky with timing.


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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:31 am

I find him very frustrating.

I dont think Townsend is great by any means, but I think hes better than Sterling. I also think our wingers arent that good

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:34 am

All the more reason for #redderzforengland
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:36 am

If you could combine Adam Johnson with Theo Walcott you'd have a world class winger. It'd probably resemble Ryan Giggs

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