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The Official *England's Journey to Brazil 2014* Thread

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Post by Calder106 Thu 06 Mar 2014, 3:35 pm

First topic message reminder :

Wilshere out for 6 weeks according to BBC. Hairline fracture on foot. Considering Arsenal have been nursing him through the season because of his ankle injuries I think it would be a risk taking him (not questioning his ability) due to the tight schedule of games.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 03 May 2014, 10:26 pm

I'd start him as well.

Gerrard holds, Barkley attacks and provides a high work-rate.

The latter will be exhausted in the heat of Manaus after sixty minutes, though - then you can send on Carrick or Milner if Hodgson wants to hold, or one of Wilshere and Oxlade if the need is to attack.

The depth of the squad is to England's advantage at this World Cup; not like 2010 (er...SWP, anyone?) or 2006 (a couple of teenagers, Downing?).

And Barkley really could be an English success story at this World Cup...like Gazza at Italia 90, say?

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 03 May 2014, 11:19 pm

Anybody remember when Bradley Johnson got included in a provisional squad under Capello?

The scenes
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Post by mystiroakey Sat 03 May 2014, 11:23 pm

gerrard barkley
sterling rooney lallana
sturridge


is a match for any team.. i can see that working out nice

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Post by Guest Sat 03 May 2014, 11:29 pm

firstly, rooney & sturridge have shown absolutely no relationship whatsoever on a football pitch & looked awful together. I get it will be those two in those positions but i'm not expecting fireworks. Lallana doesn't have the engine required by roy to play that wide left role to be effective both offensively & defensively. roy will play counter attacking football, with pacy wingers, not sure lallana is that. I can see him going with Oxlade, like he did against france or more likely welbeck. Gerrard is an obvious starter but not sure about throwing barkley into a starting role. do you think roy is going to start the WC with three, essentially, rookies of international football in sterling, lallana & barkley.....you must be joking.

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Post by mystiroakey Sat 03 May 2014, 11:31 pm

thats the team i would start and its a decent team- will roy do it- I doubt it- dont care untill it happens- but for now its about debating- and that is a quality 231

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 03 May 2014, 11:38 pm

I'd rather see Henderson-Gerrard in midfield tbh, with Barkley off the bench
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Sat 03 May 2014, 11:41 pm

Henderson would get the spot next to Gerrard. I think his lack of technical quality could tell, but he works hard and has built a good relationship with Gerrard. Theres no real alternative for me. Carrick and Gerrard will get overrun, Wilshere is a one blade of grass away from breaking his spine, Barkley is a lovely player but I don't know if I'd want him having much responsibility next to Gerrard just yet.

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Post by mystiroakey Sat 03 May 2014, 11:51 pm

Jag though. Big issues- bad game today. hopefully just a lack of match fitness and awareness that he can deal with quickly. Otherwise its the one position we are stumped on. And its a big position for england teams..

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Post by Guest Sat 03 May 2014, 11:59 pm

first game back, hence the 60 mins. i've got no issues with jag, he's been more than capable alongside cahill throughout the qualifying campaign. anyway, who else is there........nobody.

- gerrard-henderson-
sterling-rooney-welbeck-
-------sturridge-------

roy loves the club understanding being transitioned to international football. liverpool/united understanding & the counter attacking, running threat of those wingers is what he will go for in my opinion. agree with wilshere, liability & injury prone because he's reckless.

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 04 May 2014, 12:03 am

yeah the 5 of liverpool was allways my initial shout as club understanding is paramount IMO- however looking at barkleys return to form(palace game he really looked good and then in each game since)

He looked great start of the season and then tailed of a little bit- but looks right back on it. I am not sure we can not think about starting this player. This is a player that england do not have. He bursts through players like yaya and has a final ball. How can we not start him is the question.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Sun 04 May 2014, 12:26 am

Hes been relatively poor lately, couple good games mixed with more quiet. I don't think his game suits partnering Gerrard. I love watching him play, but I wouldnt shoot myself in the foot for him.

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 04 May 2014, 12:32 am

I wouldn't shoot myself in the foot for many people Dolph. But i would play him Wink






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Post by Duty281 Sun 04 May 2014, 1:12 pm

mystiroakey wrote:gerrard barkley
sterling rooney lallana
sturridge


is a match for any team.. i can see that working out nice

Welbeck on the left over Lallana, for me, but everything else is fine.

I think we're all universally agreed on the defence, aren't we? Hart in goal, Baines on the left, Cahill and the Jag at the heart, with Johnson on the right, yes?

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 04 May 2014, 1:29 pm

i would actually start shaw and have lallana on due to there link up..

but that would be seen as too forward thinking therefore risky.

jag- well yes has to play. no one else

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 04 May 2014, 1:33 pm

and in an ideal world , I would stick milner in the middle instead of gerrard, but we know thats not going to happen so its pretty pointless discussing anyone but gerrard. and i would also play terry but again thats not happening

so ideal team

johnson terry cahill shaw
milner barkley
sterling rooney lallana
sturridge

liverpool right, southampton left , our two best 'real midfielders' in the middle. chelsea back


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Post by Duty281 Sun 04 May 2014, 1:51 pm

Well we can get at look at that ideal team from August onwards during the comfortable, Sunday-morning stroll to Paris for 2016 (what an easy qualifying group!), as I'm fairly sure Gerrard will be retiring after this World Cup from England duty.

And even he doesn't retire, I'm sure Roy will want a look at some fresher alternatives.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Sun 04 May 2014, 2:23 pm

How can you so desperately talk about the Southampton link then play neither Gerrard nor Henderson?

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 04 May 2014, 11:57 pm

because ideally i wouldn't play gerrard and without gerrard, henderson isn't worthy of starting over barkley.

just to old.. not gonna win so lets play the future- and these players are still going to hopefully be fighting for there spots against other new comers of which we have plenty coming through the ranks.

imagine a duo of morrison and barkley at some point if the former can sort his life out- and both fulfill there potential..







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Post by Trebs Mon 05 May 2014, 1:23 pm

I've been saying it for ages, but Lallana and Barkley are proving that they surely have to start this summer. For me, it's something like:

Hart
Johnson Jagielka Cahill Baines
Gerrard Carrick Barkley
Lallana Rooney Welbeck

Hart and the back four pick themselves for me, Kyle Walker isn't as good as Johnson defensively, and Cole hasn't had enough game time at Chelsea to justify inclusion.

Gerrard is obviously going to play as captain, Carrick is required against the top teams to sit in front of the back four, I think he's better than Gerrard in that role which gives the Liverpool man more freedom. Barkley should be thrown in and allowed to attack in the most attacking role of the three.

Lallana is better on the left, but can also play on the right and I'd stick him there, and like Welbeck, encourage them to get narrow with the full backs providing the width. Rooney picks himself upfront, and I wouldn't play Sturridge as he just doesn't seem the same player for England and I prefer Rooney as the main striker, and we should just play one.

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Post by Duty281 Mon 05 May 2014, 1:32 pm

My main concern is that I really wouldn't wish to play Rooney in the number nine role.

If you play him behind a main striker, who I think should be Sturridge, in a number ten role, then you can make best use of his high-work rate and creativity. Whenever Wayne has played as the main striker for England, he tends to get frustrated and isolated against the better teams.

I can certainly see arguments for Lallana and Barkley starting, though.

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Post by Crimey Mon 05 May 2014, 1:38 pm

Gerrard has been a key player in a title chasing side, has been nominated for the PFA player of the year award, came second in the FWA awards and is the England captain, he's also one of the few England players over the last few years who hasn't ever been a really huge let down. His new role would also the more creative England players to express themselves knowing they have Gerrard covering and spraying balls out, stretching the pitch. 

James Milner on the other hand, while putting in some great games for Manchester City hasn't been a regular in the first team, and when he does play he plays on the wing. His main strength is his energy and in the middle with Barkley that isn't going to be the best option for me, it removes any playmaking from the middle, Barkley is basically a number 10, he very rarely plays as a sitting midfielder and you have Rooney in the number 10 ahead of him that is far too attacking team without any balance. Who is going to start the attacks? That isn't what Barkley or Milner do, and England don't have any real ball-playing midfielders. 

Gerrard isn't on the team through name-value or because Hodgson is too scared to drop him, he's in the team on merit, he's almost definitely been the best English central midfielder this year and when playing the role Hodgson will want him to play, England definitely don't have a better alternative.

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Post by mystiroakey Mon 05 May 2014, 1:46 pm

That is really solid team only treble- but i can see it being defensive. But we are now rellying heavily on barkley in the middle rather than on the wings to attack. but yes you have given him freedom with carrick as a 5th defender!(which is all he is for united)

Sterling has been the best english player for the last two months- what he adds on the wing is something else and then if you have a rooney behind sturridge you dont isolate rooney - rooney is best in a free role- if we get congested in the middle(all too prominent in englands teams) rooney could get frustrated and pull back himself leaving no one up front and no one to get in behind the defense from the wings- which the like of sterling, ox and walcott can do(we dont have walcott) so we need one of sterling or ox for me to provide that ability

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Post by mystiroakey Mon 05 May 2014, 1:48 pm

Crimey wrote:Gerrard has been a key player in a title chasing side, has been nominated for the PFA player of the year award, came second in the FWA awards and is the England captain, he's also one of the few England players over the last few years who hasn't ever been a really huge let down. His new role would also the more creative England players to express themselves knowing they have Gerrard covering and spraying balls out, stretching the pitch. 

James Milner on the other hand, while putting in some great games for Manchester City hasn't been a regular in the first team, and when he does play he plays on the wing. His main strength is his energy and in the middle with Barkley that isn't going to be the best option for me, it removes any playmaking from the middle, Barkley is basically a number 10, he very rarely plays as a sitting midfielder and you have Rooney in the number 10 ahead of him that is far too attacking team without any balance. Who is going to start the attacks? That isn't what Barkley or Milner do, and England don't have any real ball-playing midfielders. 

Gerrard isn't on the team through name-value or because Hodgson is too scared to drop him, he's in the team on merit, he's almost definitely been the best English central midfielder this year and when playing the role Hodgson will want him to play, England definitely don't have a better alternative.

I dont get this attitude about barkley- he is the only one in everton that does start the attacks- he is not a no 10!

he runs from his own half into the other. with naysmith, osman and lukkaka allways ahead of him

milner is a classy player anywhere.

my team is all out attack granted- and although only trebles team looks seriously solid- its going to bore the death out of the world. Lets have a right crack at the teams and beat them by scoring more goals

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Post by Trebs Mon 05 May 2014, 2:01 pm

I'd have a solid team over an attacking team if we 'boringly' win all our games 1-0. Barkley, in my team would have the license to get forward and Gerrard could as well playing more offensively than he does for Liverpool. Carrick always sits back. There'd be the option of bringing on Sturridge if needs be to go to a 4-4-2. I just think Rooney is better playing as the main man rather than off someone.

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Post by Crimey Mon 05 May 2014, 2:02 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
Crimey wrote:Gerrard has been a key player in a title chasing side, has been nominated for the PFA player of the year award, came second in the FWA awards and is the England captain, he's also one of the few England players over the last few years who hasn't ever been a really huge let down. His new role would also the more creative England players to express themselves knowing they have Gerrard covering and spraying balls out, stretching the pitch. 

James Milner on the other hand, while putting in some great games for Manchester City hasn't been a regular in the first team, and when he does play he plays on the wing. His main strength is his energy and in the middle with Barkley that isn't going to be the best option for me, it removes any playmaking from the middle, Barkley is basically a number 10, he very rarely plays as a sitting midfielder and you have Rooney in the number 10 ahead of him that is far too attacking team without any balance. Who is going to start the attacks? That isn't what Barkley or Milner do, and England don't have any real ball-playing midfielders. 

Gerrard isn't on the team through name-value or because Hodgson is too scared to drop him, he's in the team on merit, he's almost definitely been the best English central midfielder this year and when playing the role Hodgson will want him to play, England definitely don't have a better alternative.

I dont get this attitude about barkley- he is the only one in everton that does start the attacks- he is not a no 10!

he runs from his own half into the other. with naysmith, osman and lukkaka allways ahead of him

milner is a classy player anywhere.

my team is all out attack granted- and although only trebles team looks seriously solid- its going to bore the death out of the world. Lets have a right crack at the teams and beat them by scoring more goals

No, Barkely and Osman rarely play together, in most matches Everton have played this year, it is one or the other. McCarthy and Barry as the sitting midfielders, the ones who start the play. Barkley plays in the 3 behind the striker. He might develop into a deeper midfielder, and he might be able to a decent job there, but that is not the position he has been playing all year and playing him there, particularly next to Milner who I actually think would make a good central midfielder is totally unbalanced. For me you play Milner next to a sitting player like Gerrard.

It's not just all out attack, it is unbalanced and would struggle to take control of a game, there is nobody there to keep the ball, to start attacks, it would be rubbish.

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Post by mystiroakey Mon 05 May 2014, 2:04 pm

He has been playing much deeper this year- just read up on it if you cant remember the games and he certainly did v city. He is and will end up being a full on CM.


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Post by mystiroakey Mon 05 May 2014, 2:10 pm

and to add- every big game- v liverpool, v arsernal , v citeh he has played in the deeper role. And every big game he has impressed there


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Post by mystiroakey Mon 05 May 2014, 2:14 pm

anyway crimes what's your team?

gerrard, henderson i take it Wink


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Post by mystiroakey Mon 05 May 2014, 2:33 pm

http://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/from-a-palace-fan-questions-about-ross-barkley.67061/#post-2701805


I asked the question on an everton board- so far they prefer him in the no 10 role Sad , but in the future possibly deeper.




i cant for the WC..... PL is over(anti climax)

roll on Brazil.




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Post by Duty281 Mon 05 May 2014, 2:43 pm

I'd still have Barkley in the middle alongside Gerrard.

Wilshere's had an awful season, Carrick would make the balance too negative and would have England rely on some Stevie G hollywood balls/Rooney to do everything, whilst I don't really think Henderson will even make the final 23.

Use Barkley. He's not defensively incompetent, he has high work rate, will be a fantastic 'outball' for England when they are under pressure...and he's not bad on the ball either.

*Duty also mentions something about Barkley reminding him of Gazza but he doesn't want to tempt fate*

I'm sure Roy doesn't want to look back at the biggest month of his career in August saying "I wish I did this" or "What if I'd been a bit braver?", does he?

To dare is to do. And to do is to achieve.

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Post by mystiroakey Mon 05 May 2014, 2:45 pm

Agree Duty . Lets be brave!

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Post by NickisBHAFC Mon 05 May 2014, 3:40 pm

Gerrard, Carrick and Either Whilshere or Barkley for me. In Brazil it will be about keeping the ball, rather than fast paced attack attack attack. So Gerrard and Carrick both need to start IMO. Plus both were outstanding together, in what was one of England's best performance in recent years back against Poland, last November.

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Post by Duty281 Mon 05 May 2014, 4:28 pm

England had little control in that game against Poland; it was akin to Basketball at times.

If you play three of Gerrard, Carrick and Wilshere/Barkley, it also leaves you with the trouble of accomodating Sturridge - he will either be shunted out wide (not his best position), or put on the bench (which would be disgraceful for the second highest scorer in the PL this season).

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Post by Crimey Mon 05 May 2014, 5:07 pm

Gerrard Henderson would make sense to be fair, you have a club level understanding and they compliment each other's styles as Gerrard will be able to sit while Henderson does the heavy running and joining the attacks, but is also better at tracking back than Barkley or Wilshere.

I think if Henderson hadn't been suspended the last couple of games and Barkley hadn't had such a good game against Manchester City, the discussion would be much different. Henderson has had a better season individually than any of the other possibilities in my opinion. Barkley was fantastic at the start and now the end of the season. Carrick has been poor all year. Wilshere has had one or two good games but has either been injured or disappointing.

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Post by jimbohammers Mon 05 May 2014, 5:29 pm


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Post by jimbohammers Mon 05 May 2014, 5:30 pm

Also what do we think to Jon Flanagan getting in the World Cup squad? Has been great for Liverpool and can play left/right back  Headscratch 

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Post by GSC Mon 05 May 2014, 5:30 pm

Nah, youre alright
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Post by Guest Mon 05 May 2014, 5:31 pm

no, euro qualifiers throw him in but definitely no WC slot.

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Post by jimbohammers Mon 05 May 2014, 5:34 pm

Why not? Better than Walker. Back up to Glen Johnson

Been part of a Liverpool side who has been top of the league all season.

Id be surprised if he doesn't make it

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Post by Guest Mon 05 May 2014, 5:37 pm

you will be surprised then come a week's time

no chance flanagan is on the plane. the left backs are between the three we know & the right backs will be johnson, walker (if fit) & if he's not fit then roy will just use jones or smalling as cover.

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Post by GSC Mon 05 May 2014, 5:38 pm

Hes also been part of a Liverpool side thats conceded the 2nd most goals in the top 8.
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Post by NickisBHAFC Mon 05 May 2014, 5:56 pm

Flanagan is class. But the fact he plays LB and we have Baines, Cole and Shaw all better than him. Also the fact he never plays RB for Club is difficult.

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Post by jimbohammers Mon 05 May 2014, 6:11 pm

Flanagan will be in the squad mark my words.

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Post by Crimey Mon 05 May 2014, 6:12 pm

NickisBHAFC wrote:Flanagan is class. But the fact he plays LB and we have Baines, Cole and Shaw all better than him. Also the fact he never plays RB for Club is difficult.

Well he did until Johnson came back from injury....

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Post by Duty281 Mon 05 May 2014, 6:37 pm

jimbohammers wrote:Flanagan will be in the squad mark my words.

I very much doubt if he'll even make the provisional thirty, let alone the final twenty-three.

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Post by Trebs Mon 05 May 2014, 6:59 pm

I would play Jones or Smalling over Flanagan at right back if it came down to it. I reckon there will be seven defenders in the squad, with those two able to cover centre back and right back they are handy to have, and there will be two left backs, Baines and Cole/Shaw, hopefully the former.

Johnson, Jagielka, Cahill, Baines with Jones, Smalling, Cole backup

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Post by mystiroakey Mon 05 May 2014, 7:11 pm

Yes Jones and smalling can cover centre and right.
And have been part of the qualifying

I would give 10/1 on flannigan

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Post by jimbohammers Mon 05 May 2014, 7:19 pm

Jones and Smalling are truly woeful

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Post by mystiroakey Mon 05 May 2014, 7:33 pm

This season yes, agreed. But.who.else to is there. Both can play very well. They just haven't.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Mon 05 May 2014, 7:53 pm

Think Clyne is a better right back than Flanagan has shown

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