Wilkinson retires

Former England fly-half Jonny Wilkinson has announced he will retire from rugby at the end of this season.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/27467391

Thanks for the memories Wilko.  

  

Wow. Vickery outlasted him.

Before any WUMs just got to say he's been one of the very best. Quality wherever he has been.

Its official now

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/27467391

Best ever NH FH.

 They were already here.

I'm tempted to start a petition to bring back the Wilko statue to Trafalgar Square.

As a Scot, just want to say thank you to Wilkinson. A true gent and legend of the game, shame his potential prime playing years were so hammered by injury.

One of the greatest if not THE greatest ever NH outside half. Never complained about the catalogue of horrific injuries he picked up and is one of the most humble sportmen you will ever meet. A true rugby great who gained respect from oppositiojn players and fans a like.

What a brilliant guy and stella career. Hope he succeeds in whatever he chooses to do in retirement but equally hope that will still involve rugby. If any single player comes closer to the ideal model for youngsters to emulate I don't know who it is.

Thanks for everything you've brought to the game we all love.

With 91 caps, effectively half of his international career post 2003 injured and an early retirement from international rugby at what 31, just how many games would he have played and points scored if he had stayed fit.

Having said that, to stay fit, it would have meant playing a less offensive defense and that would not have been JW. For him this was the best bit of the game, not kicking goals.

A true legend of the game, he will be remembered for a very long time, and not just for that DG.

A real model professional.

All credit to him for persevering through his injuries to continue playing the game he so clearly enjoyed. What a guy.

Freightening to think what he would have done had he had average injuries timeouts...

Probably another 50 caps to go with his 97 odd, another 600 odd points and probably 1 or 2 more trophies in the cabinet.

Still a legend for what he actually achieved mind.

Its a real shame that the world never saw a fully fit 10 12 13 combo of Wilkinson, Henson & O'Driscoll. That should have been the 6 tests 05-09 tours locked in. It would have been a legendary trio.

I don't think it's possible to lavish enough praise on him. Perhaps to his personal detriment he has shown a level of dedication that few, not just in rugby, are capable of delivering. He revolutionised the game in a number of ways; his kicking stance has been adopted as the norm and FHs can no longer treat defence as a luxury. What impressed me most about him was the way he focused on his weaknesses. He was never going to be a Carlos Spencer, but he didn't half put the effort in to improving his creative play and its a real credit to him how he has improved his skills.

I do sincerely hope he stays in the game as he clearly still has an awful lot he can offer further generations. How fitting it would be for him to bow out with a T14 & HC double.

I don't think there ever has been a complete modern flyhalf.

Carter, Wilkinson, Larkham, Spencer, Merthens, Cooper, Michelak, Steyn, Honiball... they all had their weak points.

The new batch of Goosen, Farrell, Lambie, Cruden, Pollard, Ford etc are no different.

Wilko was a complete flyhalf.

He was perfect.

Injuries are very much part of the modern game and JW certainly had his fair share. It is probably more impressive to think about the way he worked his way back from them rather than thinking about the time he missed because of them.

It was equally impressive the way he managed to keep focused on his game when he retired from international rugby. Many before him have found that the motivation quickly evaporates once they have done that but nor JW. His timing of his international retirement was probably spot on, as is his decision to finally hang up the boots now.

I am Scottish as well, but it does not mean that I cannot really appreciate a truly great player. Wishing him a happy retirement!

An admirable guy, really true to the spirit of the game.

I'm going to congratulate JW on a stellar career. A model professional and possibly the most important player England has ever produced.

I've read a lot of comments elsewhere about JW being the complete flyhalf. He had his weaknesses for sure but he's right up there with the best. I'd place him in the Top 10 of all time, probably Top 5 since the advent of professional rugby.

Well done on a brilliant, fruitful, rewarding career - I now hope you've put those voices and demons to rest.

Model professional, hope he has a long and enjoyable retirement. Bon chance Jonny

Found this interesting yesterday - http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/sport/rugby_union/Heineken_Cup/article1411950.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2014_05_17

Great player and one of the great sportsmen of his generation.

Still playing well enough to go on another year but best of luck to him. A lot of greats bowing out this year - its an end of an era.

Top player, top guy.

I guess it'll be Phil Vickery next.

Are we going to merge with this - https://www.606v2.com/t53860-wilkinson-retires

Laporte & Toulon clearly keen to honor Wilko.

RMC Sport wrote:Following the announcement of the retirement of Jonny Wilkinson, President of CTN, Mourad Boudjellal announced that the club would hold a jubilee in July to honor him. In addition, it will apply to the league for the number 10 Toulon never again be worn by a player.

http://rmcsport.bfmtv.com/info/611303/10-wilko-retire/

Who?

Are we able to discuss BOD vs. Wilko, which player had the greater influence on the game. Who was the better player or will it become the usual mudslinging my dad is better than your dad contest?

Please spare me the JW is the greatest bit,he was a very good 10 for England part of
arguably one of the best 2 sides of the day.
Andrew Merthens was a better all round 10 arguably THE best of his day,JW was
his superior in only one aspect defence.He did`nt change the way 10`s thought
he was an incredibly brave player.Tackling much bigger players with very poor
technique.
His bravery often caused his injuries with his poor style,something was forced
to change.
What if he had played in those 10 years behind weak packs?would he as were
many others.Been dropped when the losses mounted?
Changed the way players kicked no he did`nt?most modern kickers are at least
his equal.It`s called practice I want to remember him as he was a great player
as he was.

fa0019 wrote:Are we able to discuss BOD vs. Wilko, which player had the greater influence on the game. Who was the better player or will it become the usual mudslinging my dad is better than your dad contest?

I think its a fair question but then you aren't comparing like for like.

Wilko has a RWC winners medal and pretty much won everything in the game. He peaked early but then had an Indian summer to his career at Toulon after struggling through what should have been his peak years.

Individually I believe BOD was a better player and his longevity and able to redefine himself for so long in such an physical position maybe gives him the edge.

Both generational greats who transcended the sport and its a pity that they never got to play side by side at their best post the 2001 Lions.

emack2 wrote:Please spare me the JW is the greatest bit,he was a very good 10 for England part of
arguably one of the best 2 sides of the day.
Andrew Merthens was a better all round 10 arguably THE best of his day,JW was
his superior in only one aspect defence.He did`nt change the way 10`s thought
he was an incredibly brave player.Tackling much bigger players with very poor
technique.
His bravery often caused his injuries with his poor style,something was forced
to change.
What if he had played in those 10 years behind weak packs?would he as were
many others.Been dropped when the losses mounted?
Changed the way players kicked no he did`nt?most modern kickers are at least
his equal.It`s called practice I want to remember him as he was a great player
as he was.

Alan

Merthens is often underrated I agree. People prefer Spencer as he was more easy on the eye from a rugby point of view... however I still think in terms of the position, with Merthens you stood a better chance of victory.

Merthens gave you 8/10 every game.... with Spencer you could get 10/10, you could get 6/10... and sometimes even a 3/10, you simply never knew. I still think Spencer was uber talented and peerless in that front but on a consistency level he was a huge risk especially in one off game formats such as RWCs.

I think you underrate JW a little though. He was and is the greatest clutch flyhalf for me the pro game has ever seen. If I had my life on the line on a kicker slotting it home I would put all my money on JW. The only kicker superior to him in probable history is Morne Steyn... but he has never gone to the heights and pressure than JW, Merthens, Stransky, Montegomery, Carter etc. Its still up in the air.

JW was never the most talented back but then again Emmitt Smith was never the quickest/biggest running back in the NFL etc. I mean Charlie Hodgson skill on skill was more talented than JW (and thats just in his own country).... but talent is only one aspect of performance and with the complete picture, JW was peerless.

He had a big pack with him most of the time, but so did all the greats.

One stat I think cements him for me though as one of the "you can count them on one hand" greats

2007

Pool stages England 0, SA 36.
Final England 6, SA 15.

Yes, other players came in and out but the one that really mattered was JW. He dragged that team to respectability. The forwards and him dragged that team to a RWC final beating some very decent teams in the process. That backline outside JW was probably the weakest in RWC final history.

emack2 wrote:Please spare me the JW is the greatest bit,he was a very good 10 for England part of
arguably one of the best 2 sides of the day.
Andrew Merthens was a better all round 10 arguably THE best of his day,JW was
his superior in only one aspect defence.He did`nt change the way 10`s thought
he was an incredibly brave player.Tackling much bigger players with very poor
technique.
His bravery often caused his injuries with his poor style,something was forced
to change.
What if he had played in those 10 years behind weak packs?would he as were
many others.Been dropped when the losses mounted?
Changed the way players kicked no he did`nt?most modern kickers are at least
his equal.It`s called practice I want to remember him as he was a great player
as he was.

Well right or wrong I am sure there will be a statue to JW (probably in Toulon) and they will still be talking about the drop goal and things like the tackle on N'tamack long after Merthens will be reduced to a footnote.

It is easy to find players who are better at different aspects of the game, but it takes something else to become a legend. Both BOD and JW have that something else in spades.

rodders wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Are we able to discuss BOD vs. Wilko, which player had the greater influence on the game. Who was the better player or will it become the usual mudslinging my dad is better than your dad contest?

I think its a fair question but then you aren't comparing like for like.

Wilko has a RWC winners medal and pretty much won everything in the game. He peaked early but then had an Indian summer to his career at Toulon after struggling through what should have been his peak years.

Individually I believe BOD was a better player and his longevity and able to redefine himself for so long in such an physical position maybe gives him the edge.

Both generational greats who transcended the sport and its a pity that they never got to play side by side at their best post the 2001 Lions.

I tend to agree.

I think JW hit higher heights professionally, but BODs consistency at a slightly lower level is almost peerless bar one of two figures such as Sella & McCaw. Flyhalves can play average and still grab the headlines if they take the kicks... others have to do more to standout.

lostinwales wrote:

emack2 wrote:Please spare me the JW is the greatest bit,he was a very good 10 for England part of
arguably one of the best 2 sides of the day.
Andrew Merthens was a better all round 10 arguably THE best of his day,JW was
his superior in only one aspect defence.He did`nt change the way 10`s thought
he was an incredibly brave player.Tackling much bigger players with very poor
technique.
His bravery often caused his injuries with his poor style,something was forced
to change.
What if he had played in those 10 years behind weak packs?would he as were
many others.Been dropped when the losses mounted?
Changed the way players kicked no he did`nt?most modern kickers are at least
his equal.It`s called practice I want to remember him as he was a great player
as he was.

Well right or wrong I am sure there will be a statue to JW (probably in Toulon) and they will still be talking about the drop goal and things like the tackle on N'tamack long after Merthens will be reduced to a footnote.

It is easy to find players who are better at different aspects of the game, but it takes something else to become a legend. Both BOD and JW have that something else in spades.

Merthens will be no footnote. Sublime player. The guy got over 70 caps for NZ (note thats NZ caps, not caps.. there is a big difference) in the toughest position out there and was probably the model as the first professional flyhalf for chaps like Carter & Wilkinson to aspire to match.

Scrumpy wrote:Best ever NH ENGLAND FH.

Maybe... but no way the best EVER NH fly-half.

Cliff Morgan; Barry John and Phil Bennett all better than Wilkinson. Different era yes, but each of those would have held their own in the professional era, and each would have shown Wilkinson how to play...

Lets also not forget. Throughout most of the 2003 RWC campaign, Wilkinson was protected, kept out of danger using Mike Catt where as first receiver where it could be a little dodgy. Just to keep Wilko free from injury so he was there to kick the penalties. Best FH, no, sorry not by a long shot. Best penalty kicker, err.... maybe over the whole of his playing career, but there where others to challenge him during the period. Neil Jenkins for one (when their playing time overlapped)...

So, BEST... only if you're wearing ROSE tinted specs...

George Carlin wrote:Who?

All joking aside, I hope that everyone can appreciate Wilkinson for the majestic player that he was without needing to trowel on the hyperbole.

He doesn't need to be the best 10 of any hemisphere or era. He's one of only 7 fly halves to have won a World Cup as the principal orchestrator of his side's backline play and his place in the annuls is assured. Would England have won the RWC without him? A lot of England fans would say 'no' and that is the best that can be said of any player.

For me, what made him special was (a) he was the first fly half since Henry Honiball to use defence as a weapon and make it his calling card and (b) his levels of dedication. Daniel Carter has given a number of interviews where he said that he realized he had to change his own levels of preparation and routine because Wilkinson made him feel amateurish. Wilkinson is a genuinely interesting character in that he realized his own level of drive made him the standard that he was (and brought with it all of the good things about being a sporting professional) but also was the greatest source of his unhappiness.

Really wish him well.

No9 wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:Best ever NH ENGLAND FH.

Maybe... but no way the best EVER NH fly-half.

Cliff Morgan; Barry John and Phil Bennett all better than Wilkinson. Different era yes, but each of those would have held their own in the professional era, and each would have shown Wilkinson how to play...

Lets also not forget. Throughout most of the 2003 RWC campaign, Wilkinson was protected, kept out of danger using Mike Catt where as first receiver where it could be a little dodgy. Just to keep Wilko free from injury so he was there to kick the penalties. Best FH, no, sorry not by a long shot. Best penalty kicker, err.... maybe over the whole of his playing career, but there where others to challenge him during the period. Neil Jenkins for one (when their playing time overlapped)...

So, BEST... only if you're wearing ROSE tinted specs...

Not the best nh fh by a long shot......? Right.....

chewed_mintie wrote:I'm going to congratulate JW on a stellar career.  A model professional and possibly the most important player England has ever produced.

I've read a lot of comments elsewhere about JW being the complete flyhalf.  He had his weaknesses for sure but he's right up there with the best.  I'd place him in the Top 10 of all time, probably Top 5 since the advent of professional rugby.

Well done on a brilliant, fruitful, rewarding career - I now hope you've put those voices and demons to rest.

+1. Think that sums it up for me too, mintie

emack2 wrote:Please spare me the JW is the greatest bit,he was a very good 10 for England part of
arguably one of the best 2 sides of the day.
Andrew Merthens was a better all round 10 arguably THE best of his day,JW was
his superior in only one aspect defence.He did`nt change the way 10`s thought
he was an incredibly brave player.Tackling much bigger players with very poor
technique.
His bravery often caused his injuries with his poor style,something was forced
to change.
What if he had played in those 10 years behind weak packs?would he as were
many others.Been dropped when the losses mounted?
Changed the way players kicked no he did`nt?most modern kickers are at least
his equal.It`s called practice I want to remember him as he was a great player
as he was.

Think the words your looking for are "Well done on a wonderful career" not, there are better players than you.

As a point of interest the only player I would have bet my mortgage on to kick goals
under pressure.It would have been D.b.Clarke,played in 31 out of 33 tests1956-64
was on the losing side 4 times.Of the other 2 matches Ashby[lost]and Wiliment[won]
was the other 2.
I can name many NH 10`s I consider better than JW not all of them were goalkickers,BUT
he was a great servant of both England and his clubs.
Before JW at Toulon there was Merthens who he got promoted to Top 14,another side
in France plus of course Harlequins also promoted.
Last heard of at 38 or so still plying his trade in France,the comment he is one of only 7
FH`s to win a RWC.
Is not only inaccurate but fatous,in 2011 alone 4 FH`s got a RWC winners medal 5 if
you count Weepu.
Lest people forget RU is a TEAM GAME every member of the 2003 squad like other
winning squads is important.

No9 wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:Best ever NH ENGLAND FH.

Maybe... but no way the best EVER NH fly-half.

Cliff Morgan; Barry John and Phil Bennett all better than Wilkinson. Different era yes, but each of those would have held their own in the professional era, and each would have shown Wilkinson how to play...

Lets also not forget. Throughout most of the 2003 RWC campaign, Wilkinson was protected, kept out of danger using Mike Catt where as first receiver where it could be a little dodgy. Just to keep Wilko free from injury so he was there to kick the penalties. Best FH, no, sorry not by a long shot. Best penalty kicker, err.... maybe over the whole of his playing career, but there where others to challenge him during the period. Neil Jenkins for one (when their playing time overlapped)...

So, BEST... only if you're wearing ROSE tinted specs...

No offence to phil Bennett but he wouldn't have survived in the game today or at least had the same impact? What was he 5'5?  Perhaps had he had some next generation improved diet and health and was at least 3-5 inches taller but not if was the same. You can say the same for cliff morgan. Some of the greats for sure, but in the modern game, no.

Jpr and Edwards without a doubt mind. Would have been top class in any era.

It's a different game I'm afraid. When I first started playing most backs looked like typical everyday people, some guys dad who went to keep fit on Wednesday nights. These days most backs are within the tallest 5% of the population bar scrumhalf... And even then you have chaps like Phillips and Murray.

Want to know what a willow the whisp type player looks like today... A Matthew tait rag doll

Alan if what you're saying is true then technically Andre Pretorius, Paul Grayson, stephen Donald, Nathan gray are all World Cup winning flyhalves.

Technically right but not really.

Rugby is a team game but the flow, the decision in attack are driven by one person. They pull the strings, they are the quarterback so to speak.
There are other important positions sure but none more so than flyhalf.

Could England have won the World Cup without JW? Probably not.

Grayson would have taken over and he simply didn't have the depth and nous required. Mike Catt, one of my favourite players was simply too inconsistent to play 10.
Without Jonno or wilkinson either one, no they wouldn't have won the RWC. Even hill was semi replaceable. No one could bring the fire like Jonno and no one could do what Jonno could do... At least within the 03 RWC squad.

Fantastic career and a fantastic role model. It was cruel that injury robbed him of almost 4 years of his career when he should have been in his peak, but it sums the guy up that he didn't let that stop him and had 7 strong years after coming back.

You can try to rank him above or below other fly halves all you want, but he gave me, and many English rugby fans, our happiest rugby memory. I imagine he inspired thousands to take up the game, and thousands within the game to aspire to reach a higher level by mimicking his dedication.

Brilliant player and brilliant person. I think it's a bit silly to compare amateur athletes to professional athletes, and especially silly to argue the amateur was better. So I can only compare him to pro era 10's. And since the game went pro, only Carter was better. Wilkinson will be remembered as one of the greats for as long as rugby is played.

I always get a bit sad when a legend of the game retires. A 6 Nations dream team midfield would be Wilkinson, Jauzion, O'Driscoll in their prime. If I was facing them I'd be equally scared if they had the the ball or if I had it!

Feckless Rogue wrote:Brilliant player and brilliant person. I think it's a bit silly to compare amateur athletes to professional athletes, and especially silly to argue the amateur was better. So I can only compare him to pro era 10's. And since the game went pro, only Carter was better. Wilkinson will be remembered as one of the greats for as long as rugby is played.

I always get a bit sad when a legend of the game retires. A 6 Nations dream team midfield would be Wilkinson, Jauzion, O'Driscoll in their prime. If I was facing them I'd be equally scared if they had the the ball or if I had it!

+1.

Put Howley at 9 and there's a host of 6N wingers to finish things off with the service they'd get
That is, unless O'Driscoll or Jauzion didn't get over the whitewash anyway.

Enjoy your retirement Jonny.

On the day when Jonny makes his announcement, I do not see the point of comparing him to other players - as has been pointed out Rugby is a team game and every team is different.  And as others pointed out there is zero to gain in comparing amateurs to full blown professionals.  

Clearly, however, Jonny is amongst a very small pool of the best of the pro era to play outside half.  Throw in Andrew Mehrtens and Stephen Larkham, and you have, in my opinion, the three greatest 10s of the pro era.  At least my three favourites.  Each very different from each other, each of whom I would trust with one match to win (except for poor Stephen in 2003).  And it's completely useless to say which was better.  

But today is not about them.  It is about Jonny.  He played the game the right way, practiced until perfect, clean, aggressive, got the ball where it needed to go, kept his team moving, and kept the points ticking over.  Critically, the intangible of a winner. There is really nothing more he could have done.  And most players can muster about half of that.  The drivel about needing a 12 to help out is simply that.  Boith Larkham and Mehrts both had quality just outside them as well.  

However, I believe Jonny's place in Rugby lore is measured by his impact on the game:
First, there were all of a sudden kids practising to be like him.  We still see people kicking in variations of the Jonny style.
We now see kids at younger ages practising until perfect - many players put in the same effort as Jonny, but he made it popular and normal.  This was not original with him as it was Vince Lombnardi who said "only perfect practice makes perfect".  But he did it and made it common in Rugby, where it was lacking, and was therefore a key part of the transition from amatuer to pro.  
And he did everything as a humble, kind, and down to earth gentleman.  
Through all his injuries fought like hell to get back, a battle which would have defeated lesser men.  And that means almost everyone.   
And Jonny became THE superstar, who brought so many new people to our sport.

So, in the end, what do we have? A MAN, a role model, a gentleman, and a great, great player.
What more could one ask for?

My country was dealt some serious heartbreak at the hands of Wilkinson, but I've got nothing but the utmost respect for him as a person and his abilities as a player.  Sure there were more skillful 10s with the ball in hand, but the sum of his abilities in all aspects of play allied with his dedication and professionalism mark him out as a great, not to mention the spirit in which he played the game and his character on & off the pitch.

When he first arrived on the scene union was still adapting to becoming properly professional, and throughout his career he's pretty much set the bar in driving yourself to be the best you can.  I've heard countless greats from around the world of his era (and previous) state that seeing how he approached training was a game changer and forced them to adjust.

Outside of England there probably aren't many who would call him their favourite 10 (that's usually the showreel sort), but as an ambassador for our sport and an example to junior players of the highest standards in all aspects of your game and how much you can give of yourself to your teammates and get the best out of them, I can't think of a better example, and long may he be remembered and regarded as such.

emack2 wrote:As a point of interest the only player I would have bet my mortgage on to kick goals
under pressure.It would have been D.b.Clarke,played in 31 out of 33 tests1956-64
was on the losing side 4 times.Of the other 2 matches Ashby[lost]and Wiliment[won]
was the other 2.
I can name many NH 10`s I consider better than JW not all of them were goalkickers,BUT
he was a great servant of both England and his clubs.
Before JW at Toulon there was Merthens who he got promoted to Top 14,another side
in France plus of course Harlequins also promoted.
Last heard of at 38 or so still plying his trade in France,the comment he is one of only 7
FH`s to win a RWC.
Is not only inaccurate but fatous,in 2011 alone 4 FH`s got a RWC winners medal 5 if
you count Weepu.
Lest people forget RU is a TEAM GAME every member of the 2003 squad like other
winning squads is important.

Two really disappointing posts from a member like this. A couple of the points have valid aspects to them, but then they are drowned in sanctimonious pedantry. It's usually the place of WUMs to post in such a tone on these sort of retirement topics, others are respectful enough to recognise them for what they are and save criticism or disparaging comparisons for a more appropriate, later conversation.

As a complete player with dedication and complete humility, Jonny stands head and shoulders above his contemporaries as a sportsman.

Bar none.

Mzan,I do not indulge Wums,and hopefully am not a pedant,just because I have different
opinions.It doesn't make me right or wrong I deal in FACTS as I see them. JW was a great
player,who overcame injuries to keep going,I honour him for it.
I don`t think in my over 60 years of watching Rugby,there has EVER been a perfect 10
Mike Gibson would be the nearest.
In my opinion in there day and for there teams,Kyle,Morgan,Kirton,Fox,Gibson,Merthens,
Larkham,Gachassin,the Camberberos,Porta,Dominguez,Dai Watkins,John,Bennett,even
Hodgeson had better all round games.
Dan Carter is probably the nearest in the Professional ERA,in my opinion that DOES`NT
detract one iota of what JW has achieved.
My beliefs are mine,Rugby is a TEAM Game not a one man band,the greats of the past
given modern circumstances.Would still be great etc.Don Clarke was THE Greatest
goal kick EVER.
Merthens set the standards for the likes of Carter and JW to espouse to both worldwide
and at Toulon.
Toulon isn`t a FRENCH Club side it is a Billionares tax dodge and Rugby who`s who
a Super Barbarians side.An attempt to buy trophies on the Soccer principle which
has been singularly un successful.
A HC Cup beaten T14 finalists twice IF I was a share holder I`d have demanded my money
back.
I honour JW for his contributions and loyalty to an average English Premierside[Newcastle?}
and England.NOT for being part of a Billionaires Dream,also in my opinion his selection
for the 2011 RWC.Blighted the chances of his successors and tarnished somewhat his
RWC reputation.
Like wise selection for 2005 Lions tour was a huge mistake he was walking wounded
before the start of it.
The selections were of course the fault of others,to sum up HAPPY RETIREMENT JONNY
WELL EARNED.