India in Bangladesh--and Indian cricket

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Indian team was declared for BD and Eng


Squad for Bangladesh ODIs Suresh Raina (capt.), Robin Uthappa, Ajinkya Rahane, Cheteshwar Pujara, Ambati Rayudu, Manoj Tiwary, Kedar Jadhav, Wriddhiman Saha (wk), Parvez Rasool, Akshar Patel, R Vinay Kumar, Umesh Yadav, Stuart Binny, Mohit Sharma, Amit Mishra



MS Dhoni (capt. & wk), M Vijay, Shikhar Dhawan, Gautam Gambhir, Cheteshwar Pujara, Virat Kohli, Ajinkya Rahane, Rohit Sharma, Ravindra Jadeja, R Ashwin, Bhuvneshwar Kumar, Mohammed Shami, Ishwar Pandey, Ishant Sharma, Stuart Binny, Varun Aaron, Wriddhiman Saha (wk), Pankaj Singh
In: Gautam Gambhir, Stuart Binny, Varun Aaron, Pankaj Singh
Out: Zaheer Khan, Umesh Yadav, Ambati Rayudu

msp83 wrote:Even in the IPL, Binny is used as a parttime bowler while Rishi is a regular bowler and he has been among the wickets this season as well.

--in FC cricket Binny is one of  5 bowlers and dhawan one of 4 bowlers....so Dhawan is a shade better I already agreed earlier also....

--but at international level neither of them is good enough to play for India as a specialist bowler.......
either of them will fit in only as a 5th bowler...and neitehr will be earth shattering as the 5th bowler.......about 10 to 12 overs per day and averaging 1.5 wkts per test at close to 40 average is the best they can achieve

--so it comes down to batting......where Binny looks better and has performed against higher quality opponents in Ranji in tougher situations.....so Binny edges out Dhawan for now.

--Dhawan with age on his side...better built if he can improve his bowling a bit to be in the 130-135kph range and break in as one of the top  4 bowlers...
then his batting will be a bonus.
His problem is inpsite of his physique he doesn't generate pace because he has no jump / leap and energy in his delivery stride...just drags his left foot across the pitch with no leap......and at 125-130kph he is hence a yard to yards and half slower than he should be.

Pace seems to be an issue with Dhawan, but I wouldn't put their bowling anywhere close to each other. Binny is a proper parttimer, Dhawan is a regular bowler who takes the new ball for his side. Binny is more say Ravi Bopara while Dhawan is say like Chris Woakes.

msp83 wrote:Pace seems to be an issue with Dhawan, but I wouldn't put their bowling anywhere close to each other. Binny is a proper parttimer, Dhawan is a regular bowler who takes the new ball for his side. Binny is more say Ravi Bopara while Dhawan is say like Chris Woakes.

dhawan is like colingwood
Binny is like like ganguly of early days
and Woakes bowling at 85-87mph is more like Yadav focussing on line and legth to pelase Dhoni these days

I wouldn't have had either of them in the side tbh. Would've gone with a proper spinner instead. 6 pacers are enough. Yadav for Ishant though.

When did Woakes bowl at 85-87. Its been more 80-83, same about Dhawan. When did Sourav Ganguly regularly take the new ball for any First Class side he played for?

Ganguly took the new ball for India on at least a few occasions

msp83 wrote:When did Woakes bowl at 85-87. Its been more 80-83, same about Dhawan. When did Sourav Ganguly regularly take the new ball for any First Class side he played for?

He does, nowadays. Far better than Rishi Dhawan tbh.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Ganguly took the new ball for India on at least a few occasions

Ganguly ripped Pakistan out with 5-fors in consecutive ODIs in Toronto in 1997 i think.

In 1989-1995 period Ganguly routinely was 2nd or 3rd seamer for Bengal.....only when his batting  blossomed and he got India captaincy around year 2000...is when his bowling declined significantly.
in late 1980s Ganguly was sent to MRF / Lillee camp as Bengal's pace bowler nominee in the camp.....off-course he was rejected by Lillee for " not having enough muscles to be a fast bowler"   

At his best Ganguly bowled as fast as 126kph and swung it prodigiously when conditions assisted him.....not too far behind Praveen Kumar and a bunch of 120-125 kph swing bowlers that India has produced.

and Binny is in the same league as Ganguly of 1997-2000 period as a bowler

If only he was in the same class as Ganguly as a batsman........... he would've been a reasonable pick. He isn't. Just a very average bits and pieces cricketer. Shouldn't be playing tests but in fairness, if the alternative specialist batsman is Nohit you may as well go with Binny I guess. At least he will offer you 10 overs a day.

Dravid says on CI...Binny is India's main takeaway from the BD seriess
and has a Bangar type role in Eng

If he can open the batting and see off the new ball on an absolute green mamba like Bangar did in Headingely, his selection will be vindicated.

ShankyCricket wrote:If he can open the batting and see off the new ball on an absolute green mamba like Bangar did in Headingely, his selection will be vindicated.

if he can score average 35 runs with the bat from No.6 slot and pick 2. 5wkts / test at average 35 he would justify his selection

He won't be playing the tests, Rohit Sharma is the only sureshot who would be playing all the 5 games.........

KP_fan wrote:

ShankyCricket wrote:If he can open the batting and see off the new ball on an absolute green mamba like Bangar did in Headingely, his selection will be vindicated.

if he can score average 35 runs with the bat from No.6 slot and pick 2. 5wkts / test at average 35 he would justify his selection

I highly doubt he can do that but since we're playing 15 a side warm ups, might as well give him a go to see what he is made of.

I am just a little bit more hopeful about his batting, but his bowling is nothing more than parttime.

In English conditions against Anderson and co, I think his batting will be worse. But any more worse than Rohit Sharma? I don't think so. So might as well play 5 bowlers. Not that Binny would be amongst my 5 btw. 3 seamers and Ashwin + Jadeja if the pitch suits spin/is flat. At venues like Trent Bridge, 4 proper seamers + a spinner.

actually the dry / somewhat spin friendly pitch is where India would want to play 2 spinners

but they cannot go in with only 2 seamers...so as a compromise they might play with Binny is one scenario.

it's a long series and Rohit will most likely fail in the firts two tests....
then Binny will come inot the reckoning again

I doubt Dhoni will go in with 5 batsmen only. That's not his style, and if he's anything, he's stubborn to the core. So Rohit will get at least 3 games, and in that if he manages at least 1 decent score, will play the entire series. The openers Shikhar Dhawan and particularly Murali Vijay, they might have their place under threat if they do not perform in the first couple of games and Gautam Gambhir might come in. Hard to see Binny getting a game. A dead certainty for all 5 games is Ishant Sharma!.

msp83 wrote:I doubt Dhoni will go in with 5 batsmen only. That's not his style, and if he's anything, he's stubborn to the core. So Rohit will get at least 3 games, and in that if he manages at least 1 decent score, will play the entire series. The openers Shikhar Dhawan and particularly Murali Vijay, they might have their place under threat if they do not perform in the first couple of games and Gautam Gambhir might come in. Hard to see Binny getting a game. A dead certainty for all 5 games is Ishant Sharma!.

I agree about dhoni but this time the dynamics is diffrent...the power base of srinivasan is not the same in BCCI after the new govt and the match fixing report can come anytime.
so Dhoni may not have the same free hand
see my XI

1) Vijay
2) Dhawan
3) Pujara
4) Kohli
5) Rahane
6) Binny
7) Jadeja
8) Dhoni
9) ashwin
10) Sami
11) B. Kumar

batting down to No.9....... 2 spinners, 3 seamers........
only for seaming pitches like Headlingley replace ashwin with a seamer

I would play 5 bowlers. But they have to be 5 proper bowlers. No point weakening the batting to bring in a part timer. 3 seamers + Ashwin and Jadeja or 4 seamers + Ashwin/Jadeja would be the way to go. I would drop Nohit.

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:I doubt Dhoni will go in with 5 batsmen only. That's not his style, and if he's anything, he's stubborn to the core. So Rohit will get at least 3 games, and in that if he manages at least 1 decent score, will play the entire series. The openers Shikhar Dhawan and particularly Murali Vijay, they might have their place under threat if they do not perform in the first couple of games and Gautam Gambhir might come in. Hard to see Binny getting a game. A dead certainty for all 5 games is Ishant Sharma!.

I agree about dhoni but this time the dynamics is diffrent...the power base of srinivasan is not the same in BCCI after the new govt and the match fixing report can come anytime.
so Dhoni may not have the same free hand
see my XI

1) Vijay
2) Dhawan
3) Pujara
4) Kohli
5) Rahane
6) Binny
7) Jadeja
8) Dhoni
9) ashwin
10) Sami
11) B. Kumar

batting down to No.9....... 2 spinners, 3 seamers........
only for seaming pitches like Headlingley replace ashwin with a seamer

Binny as the 3rd seamer? Thats probably the most outrageous suggestion you've ever come up with.

shanky wrote:Binny as the 3rd seamer? Thats probably the most outrageous suggestion you've ever come up with.

if the pitch is dry and will assist spinners.......this is the best formula to play 2 spinners without weakening the batting...and at the same time giving us stock 3rd seamer option , because after all this is Eng and not India.

I'd pick 3 proper seamers.

ShankyCricket wrote:I'd pick 3 proper seamers.

you are talking like Ravi shastri   
giving the solution you like without completing the FULL picture
i.e hwo to get two spinners in on a dry pitch ?
and without weakening the batting

A 7,8,9 of Ashwin, Jadeja and Bhuvi is pretty decent. Binny is nowhere near good enough to play as a 3rd seamer. 3 proper seamers and 2 spinners. Or 4 proper seamers and 1 spinner.

ShankyCricket wrote:A 7,8,9 of Ashwin, Jadeja and Bhuvi is pretty decent. Binny is nowhere near good enough to play as a 3rd seamer. 3 proper seamers and 2 spinners. Or 4 proper seamers and 1 spinner.

i.e you don't have a solution   

KP_fan wrote:

ShankyCricket wrote:A 7,8,9 of Ashwin, Jadeja and Bhuvi is pretty decent. Binny is nowhere near good enough to play as a 3rd seamer. 3 proper seamers and 2 spinners. Or 4 proper seamers and 1 spinner.

i.e you don't have a solution   

If playing a bits and pieces cricketer who is not amongst the top 18 batsmen or top 18 seamers in India but still makes an 18 man squad is your "solution", then I'd rather not have one. Proper cricketers, please!

KPF, the solution is to bat R Ashwin at number 6 as the all-rounder, he's as good and an even better batsman than Binny, and play Ravindra Jadeja, a very good number 8 batsman as the led spinner. Then 3 proper seamers, Bhuvneshwar Kumar who is no mug with the bat at 9, Pankaj Singh who can also bat a bit at 10, and Mohammed Shami as 3 proper seamers. Even Varun Aaron and Ishwar Pandey are decent number 10 batsmen, and any 3 of them, Pankaj, Pandey or Aaron can come in there.
We have 5 bowlers, a bloke who scores triple tons in FC cricket and rips apart the Australians with his left-arm spin coming in at 8 and a number 6 who has been fastest to 100 test wickets for India and scored runs in tough conditions in Australia and looked convincing than many specialists batsmen in at 6.

ShankyCricket wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

ShankyCricket wrote:A 7,8,9 of Ashwin, Jadeja and Bhuvi is pretty decent. Binny is nowhere near good enough to play as a 3rd seamer. 3 proper seamers and 2 spinners. Or 4 proper seamers and 1 spinner.

i.e you don't have a solution   

If playing a bits and pieces cricketer who is not amongst the top 18 batsmen or top 18 seamers in India but still makes an 18 man squad is your "solution", then I'd rather not have one. Proper cricketers, please!

where did you get the top 18 batsman and top 18 seamer figure.

Binny is a frontline batsman for the top Ranji side in the country...who has delivred in tight situations for last 2 to 3 seasons...and will deliver no less than Rohit, Raina etal who have played for India as batsment.

Binny is a handy 3rd seamer tooo....who has proved himsefl at Ranji and now shown glimpses of what he can on seaming pitches.

msp83 wrote:KPF, the solution is to bat R Ashwin at number 6 as the all-rounder, he's as good and an even better batsman than Binny, and play Ravindra Jadeja, a very good number 8 batsman as the led spinner. Then 3 proper seamers, Bhuvneshwar Kumar who is no mug with the bat at 9, Pankaj Singh who can also bat a bit at 10, and Mohammed Shami as 3 proper seamers. Even Varun Aaron and Ishwar Pandey are decent number 10 batsmen, and any 3 of them, Pankaj, Pandey or Aaron can come in there.
We have 5 bowlers, a bloke who scores triple tons in FC cricket  and rips apart the Australians with his left-arm spin coming in at 8 and a number 6 who has been fastest to 100 test wickets for India and scored runs in tough conditions in Australia and looked convincing than many specialists batsmen in at 6.

Binny is a better batsman than ashwin by far......
anb the problem with ashwin as with all those bowlers is in seaming conditions even against the quality of anderson, Broad etal they will struggle to score even 15 runs consistently

actually the problem for India's lower ordr starts with Dhoni .......after 80 overs when second new ball is due if India is 5 down...it takes a good seam bowling side even on not very seaming English / aus / SA / NZ pitches barely 10 to 12 overs to polish off our last 5 batsmen.

mathews is not too different from Binny and today his wickets showed the values of having a 5th bowler.

and Binny is not too diffrent from Mathews in batting style...off course Mathews has proven himself AND Binny has to.

but to me Binny might prove to be the find of the series...the inspire selection from selectors

Mathews averages 46 in Test cricket. Binny averages about 10 lower in the Ranji Trophy. Great comparison indeed.

ShankyCricket wrote:Mathews averages 46 in Test cricket. Binny averages about 10 lower in the Ranji Trophy. Great comparison indeed.

--if gross statistics was all that was to be looked at ........we would need only computers to select the team.

--Mathews overseas average is 34 including an average of 67 in BD in 3 tests......so else where he is barely crossing an avarge of 30 odd

--Binny has been picked not on his overall career performance but rather his last 2 consistent seasons.
This season for example he played the full season and averaged around 48 with the bat..
also his runs came against high quality group A opponents, and including critical displays in s.f and finals.....showing temperament.

--I do not exypect him to be anotehr Mathews exactly...but rather one in the same mould.
capable of averaging 35 with the bat andf with the ball.
he is a similar batsman and similar bowler and can bring similar value to the team

He'd do well to average 15 with the bat in England! Ashwin has a far better technique and is a far better test bat.

ShankyCricket wrote:He'd do well to average 15 with the bat in England! Ashwin has a far better technique and is a far better test bat.

I can safely conclude you have not seen Binny bat in FC cricket.

KP_fan wrote:

ShankyCricket wrote:He'd do well to average 15 with the bat in England! Ashwin has a far better technique and is a far better test bat.

I can safely conclude you have not seen Binny bat in FC cricket.

I have. He is not good enough.

ShankyCricket wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

ShankyCricket wrote:He'd do well to average 15 with the bat in England! Ashwin has a far better technique and is a far better test bat.

I can safely conclude you have not seen Binny bat in FC cricket.

I have. He is not good enough.

well we do not agree...Dravid would not agree  and selectors think differently.

you might still be right....but it can be proven if he gets now about 3 tests to prove himself

dhoni is atleast thinking right here...


'I should go for my shots' - Dhoni
MS Dhoni, speaking about his batting, said he felt he should not be conservative during the five-Test series against England.
"For me, what's important is that I have to be far more aggressive. That's something that I have observed. When I play freely, I tend to fare much better than when I try to play like a proper batsman. I think it's something important to back your instinct and not think too much about the situation," Dhoni said.
In his seven Tests in England, Dhoni has scored 429 runs at 39, which is slightly better than his career average of 38.77. "In a set of six to seven batsmen, it's important that I back my instincts and try and score boundaries. That way I will score more runs rather than playing for time. That can be the job of other batsmen but I feel that it's important I should go for the shots.