Scotland Summer Tour, Game 2: Canada v Scotland, 14 June

First topic message reminder :

Canada v Scotland 
14 June 2014, KO: 14:00 EDT (19:00 BST)
BMO Field, Toronto, Ontario

Live on BT Sport 2

Referee: Mike Fraser (NZ)
Assistant referees: Stuart Berry (SA), Nick Ricono (USA)
TMO: Davey Ardrey (USA)

A. Teams:

I. Canada

1.Hubert Buydens – (Manawatu Turbos/Prairie Wolf Pack) Saskatoon, SK
2.Aaron Carpenter – (Cornish Pirates RFC) Brantford, ON
3.Jason Marshall – (Atlantique Stade Rochelais) Vancouver, BC
4.Tyler Hotson – (London Scottish RFC) Vancouver, BC
5.Jamie Cudmore – (ASM Clermont Auvergne) Squamish, BC
6.Jebb Sinclair – (London Irish/Atlantic Rock) Fredericton, NB
7.John Moonlight – (James Bay AA/Ontario Blues) Pickering, ON
8.Tyler Ardron – Captain (Ospreys/Ontario Blues) Lakefield, ON

9.Phil Mack – (James Bay AA/BC Bears) Victoria, BC
10.Harry Jones – (Capilanos RFC/BC Bears) Vancouver, BC
11.Taylor Paris – (SU Agen Lot-et-Garonne) Barrie, ON
12.Nick Blevins – (Calgary Hornets/Prairie Wolf Pack) Calgary, AB
13.Ciaran Hearn – (Castaway Wanderers/Atlantic Rock) Conception Bay South, NL
14.Jeff Hassler – (Ospreys/Prairie Wolf Pack) Okotoks, AB
15.James Pritchard – (Bedford Blues) Parkes, NSW, Australia

16.Ray Barkwill – (Niagara Wasps RFC/Ontario Blues) Niagara Falls, ON
17.Andrew Tiedemann – (Castaway Wanderers/Prairie Wolf Pack) St. Albert, AB
18.Jake Ilnicki – (Castaway Wanderers/BC Bears) Williams Lake, BC
19.Kyle Gilmour – (Saint Albert RFC/Prairie Wolf Pack) Saint Albert, AB?
20.Jon Phelan – (Castaway Wanderers/Atlantic Rock) Montreal, QC
21.Gordon McRorie – (Calgary Hornets/Prairie Wolf Pack) Calgary, AB
22.Connor Braid – (James Bay AA/BC Bears) Victoria, BC
23.DTH van der Merwe – (Glasgow Warriors) Regina, SK

II. Scotland

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors); 21 caps, 5 tries, 25 points
14 Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors); 10 caps, 1 try, 5 points
13 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors); 87 caps, 12 tries, 60 points
12 Peter Horne (Glasgow Warriors); 2 caps
11 Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby); 13 caps, 7 tries, 35 points
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors); 1 cap
9 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester); 30 caps, 3 tries, 254 points

1 Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors); 1 cap
2 Scott Lawson (Newcastle Falcons); 44 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
3 Moray Low (Exeter Chiefs); 27 caps
4 Richie Gray (Castres); 39, 1 try, 5 points
5 Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby); 5 caps
6 Alasdair Strokosch (USA Perpignan); 39 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
7 Kelly Brown (Saracens); 63 caps, 4 tries, 20 points
8 Johnnie Beattie (Castres); 31 tries, 3 tries, 15 points

16 Kevin Bryce (Glasgow Warriors), uncapped
17 Kyle Traynor (Bristol Rugby); 4 caps
18 Geoff Cross (London Irish); 29 caps, 1 try, 5 points
19 Kieran Low (London Irish); 2 cap
20 Blair Cowan (London Irish); 1 cap
21 Grayson Hart (Edinburgh Rugby); uncapped
22 Ruaridh Jackson (London Waps); 24 caps, 18 points
23 Max Evans (Castres); 43 caps, 3 tries, 15 points

B. Form - head to head:

(includes 'Scotland XV' game in 1991)

5 Played 5
2 Won 3
3 Lost 2

(Scotland defeats were:

25 May 1991: Canada 24-19 Scotland XV
Saint John, New Brunswick

15 June 2002: Canada 26-23 Scotland
Vancouver, British Columbia)

C. Form - recent

22 Nov 2008
Scotland 41 - 0 Canada
Pittodrie Stadium, Aberdeen, Scotland

15 Jun 2002
Canada 26 - 23 Scotland
Thunderbird Stadium, Vancouver, Canada

08 Jun 2002
Canada 8 - 33 Scotland
Fletchers Field, Toronto, Canada

21 Jan 1995
Scotland 22 - 6 Canada
Murrayfield, Edinburgh, Scotland

I agree that he probably shouldn't be picked, but if he does he'll be thoroughly deserving of his 100 caps!

BigGee wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Given that he's tried harder than anyone else in the professional era to make Scotland successful, I'd have absolutely no issues whatsoever with Lamont getting 100 caps.

If every player had his desire, work rate and commitment we would have been much more successful.

I would have an issue with that, not for what he has done and I agree with you about him leading the way in terms of effort and commitment, but rather that to get to 100 he would need to play continuously between now and the world cup. For all his qualities we do have better players now, younger, faster and more skilful and they should be getting the caps now, not Sean.

I still think Lamont should be involved in the squad and make the World Cup team. I don't think he should be in the starting line up but should be used as an impact sub. Not many players will make the same impact he does when he is angry and fired up coming off the bench.

It depends on injuries. Visser, Maitland and Seymour are better wingers.

Great servant to Scottish rugby though. Played during some dark days to be a winger, and he's better than his scoring rate suggests.

Dear me, it all started so well!

Can anybody tell me why a succession of modern rugby coaches see Kelly Brown as a 7 and not a 6?

Even worse, Cotter thinks both Kelly and strokosh can be classed as 6/7!   

RDW_Scotland wrote:Even worse, Cotter thinks both Kelly and strokosh can be classed as 6/7!   

To be fair to Strokosh it is 7 where he played most of the season at Perpignan and did a pretty good job there. One of the few Perpignan players to play well and come out with any credit at the end of the Top14.

In France is the 7 shirt not our equivalent 6 shirt though?

RDW_Scotland wrote:In France is the 7 shirt not our equivalent 6 shirt though?

A few teams like Toulouse and Clermont seem to adopt it the South African way but Perpignan seemed to have the 7 as the openside as he was certainly packing down in the openside position and quite often the 6 was Dan Leo who would be the biggest 7 ever!

Bit disappointed to see Brown at 7 but it may be that case that the want each flanker to get 80 minutes over two games?

Saying that, don't think it's a big issue for this match. Brown is a better blind-side but is a good open-side and confident he'll do the job against Canada.

Noticed against USA, Cowan was packing down at blind-side on a couple of attacking scrums.

It's not a terrible selection. I'm not impressed with Lamont at 13 and Brown and Stroks on the flanks seems a bit defensive to me.

Nevermind. I Think we'll have more than enough to deal with Canada. Nice to see Russel get a second start.

Looking at the clubs most of the Canada guys play for, and the extra week the squad have had together, I think we should expect a better win that last week.

Canada are probably better than the US, but given that we underperformed last week I'd be fairly concerned if we only scraped past Canada or had another unconvincing win.

How many international teams in the world do play a genuine open side? NZ and Australia very much so but England, Ireland, France, South Africa all go for the hybrid variety. I suppose it begs the question is an out and out 7 actually necessary in modern rugby where you can't just rely on one player to turn over ball.

BigGee wrote:How many international teams in the world do play a genuine open side? NZ and Australia  very much so but England, Ireland, France, South Africa all go for the hybrid variety. I suppose it begs the question is an out and out 7 actually necessary in modern rugby where you can't just rely on one player to turn over ball.

I think a few of those teams probably would be an out and out 7 if they had a quality open side to play there. France tend to play with an out and out 7, at the moment it is Nyanga who is covering
that role and before that Ouedrago was playing there.
I still think a genuine 7 is more beneficial to a team than playing without one.

Interesting article from Massimo Cuttitta in the Scotsman:

SCOTLAND’S opening win over the USA was far from the complete performance but at least two of the coaching staff have had a spring in their step since the event.


The Scots kept their line intact with a doughty defensive performance to please Matt Taylor and the game was effectively won when Scotland’s set scrum had the Eagles in reverse gear on the very first engagement, which put an even broader smile on Massimo Cuttitta’s already cheery face.

That same scrum then earned a yellow card for Eagles’ prop Olive Kilifi and a first-half penalty try. If that wasn’t enough, the scrum bossed the opposition while blooding two new caps in Gordon Reid and Alex Allan who replaced him for the final 24 minutes. In an odd twist Allan has now played twice as much Test match rugby for Scotland as he has enjoyed this season in Edinburgh’s colours.

Props are like all tradesmen who have to serve a long apprenticeship, they need time in the saddle, they need the sort of experiences that can’t be bought in a gym. In short, props need to prop. Isn’t Cuttitta, Scotland’s burly scrum guru, just a tad frustrated that Edinburgh couldn’t find a little more time to develop one of Scotland’s more promising young props?

“When someone in Edinburgh doesn’t believe, doesn’t want to play him [Allan], it’s for them to choose,” said the amiable Italian. “We think he has potential. They might not have played him for various reasons.

“Every coach has his views. We need to develop Scottish players as part of our system. He came on and did reasonably well. He is a good lad and we believe in him. What happens at a club is a different thing and I can’t question other coaches. He wouldn’t be here if we didn’t think he was talented. I worked with Alex as part of the EDP [elite development] programme. The reason he is here is because he has quality. He needs to work a lot, but he has promise.”

Scotland’s depth in the front row, more puddle than pool in recent years, has been a major headache but, while things are far from perfect, Cuttitta reckons he probably has more options available now that at any other time in his Scotland career.

As well as handing two young loosehead props their debuts, Cuttitta also revealed that Euan Murray, at the opposite end of his career aged 33, is not yet out of the picture. The veteran tighthead was asked to tour but turned down the opportunity on personal grounds. He is also currently out of contract with the relegated Worcester Warriors opting not to extend his deal beyond the end of the season. Cuttitta revealed that he understood Murray had fielded several offers from France.

If the prop’s personal issues are resolved in the near term he may yet join the squad at some stage over the summer bringing even greater depth to the tighthead berth.

“He [Murray] had valid reasons to stay home, family reasons,” Cuttitta revealed. “I hope he is part of this group [in the near future] because he has a lot to offer. Every time he has gone on the field he has offered us a lot. He is the only prop who can tackle 18 times in a game. He does his bit and he is a generous player. He is a good leader and he has charisma and he will be good for the youngsters.”

A few key points:

- Edinburgh didn't rate Alex Allan, hence his move to Glasgow   

- Euan declined to tour for family reasons, but is still in Scotland contention. Cuttitta also pointed out that he's one of the few props to regulary have tackle counts in the high teens for Scotland

Murray certainly has always put in big defensive shifts recently. He is not done with Scotland yet and I think would have a lot to offer in a coaching role in particular. Hope everything is all right at home for him.

Are we really seeing a genuinely competitive Scottish scrum on the horizon? Really need Allen, MacArthur, Reid, Shiells and Rae to come through strongly and for Nel to get some measured game time.

New Zealand have Dan Carter, Arron Crueden, Beauden Barrett and many, many more at 10 - can we please not have at least one player who has half the class of them??   

You seem to be forgetting about world class Finn Russell

  

Christ we just need him to be 6N class and he'll be the best Scottish 10 we've had in years!

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:You seem to be forgetting about world class Finn Russell

  

A wise man told me that Russell is categorically overrated.

Just over 30 minutes until kick off. Looking forward to the game assuming I find somewhere to watch it.

Really looking forward this - hope we see a few tries from us!

Mike Blair co commentator!

Oh FFS

Bloody restarts!

Bit worrying seeing visser handed off by a scrum half, even if the try was disallowed

Nice to have a distributer at 12 for once!

Our maul has been awful - what does Humphries actually do as forwards coach??

Right. Baby in bed now. Eyes down.

What the hell was Uncle Dougie doing on the field? And why was he singing an acapella version of Flower of Scotland?

Anybody got a stream they could share?

Always wondered what uncle Dougie looked like, are you sure Scott Johnson was considering him as a back rower, looked more front row to me

This is awful

A Simply Mesmeric Try wrote:Anybody got a stream they could share?

PM'd you

Awful, awful, awful

What the Frak am I watching

Good try. Scotland are awful

Canada slicing us open like the All Blacks.

Can Edinburgh signing that 13??

This is completely dreadful. We're not in the game, no basic skills and the defence is shocking.

Have got to be careful of that midfield - two excellent 7s players plus Hassler and Paris.

We need to bring it back to the forwards and get control.

Hmmm, good thing the games don't get any tougher this tour...        

whats the score someone?

Did Sean Lamont just put in a grubber?   

Edit: Nice try, Grant Gilchrist.

Agree GC, the Canadian forwards are awful. This match is not test match quality.

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:

A Simply Mesmeric Try wrote:Anybody got a stream they could share?

PM'd you

Many thanks!

Just in time for a Scotland try! Our defence is a bit suspect tonight though...

funnyExiledScot wrote:Agree GC, the Canadian forwards are awful. This match is not test match quality.

i live in caanda, they are not test match quality full stop

If Scotland have been practicing restarts all week, I'd hate to see what we'd be like if we hadn't practiced!

A world class Phil moment there from Russell!

Who the smeg is this Welsh commentator? That's not Low down, it's Strokosch.

I was making the same point about Scotland. This has been amateur all round.

Hope Strokosch is OK.

Yeah looks a bad one - hope he's ok.

Looks like we'll get to see KB at 6 now though with Cowan coming on.

Scratch wrote:whats the score someone?

Canada 8 - 10 Scotland, Scratch. Scrappy as hell.