Could Teofilo Stevenson have eclipsed Muhammad Ali?

http://www.newstalk.ie/player/podcasts/Off_The_Ball/Off_The_Ball_Highlights/56868/2/Stevenson_or_Rigondeaux_-_the_two_sides_to_Cuban_boxing

Podcast lasts over 30 mins and worth a listen if anyone has the time.


Just over two years ago, one of the all-time great boxers passed away in Havana at the age of 60.

A three-time Olympic heavyweight champion, Teofilo Stevenson is often regarded as Cuba's greatest boxer. But in the eye of a Cold War storm, he could have achieved even more.

Tonight, we were joined by documentary filmmaker Brin-Jonathan Butler to tell the story of a man who could have fought Muhammad Ali.

"Teofilo Stevenson won his first Olympic medal in 1972 and went on to win two more to become the second man in history after Laszlo Papp to do it. Along the way, around 1976, both Bob Arum and Don King offered him around €5 million to leave Cuba and fight professionally against Muhammad Ali as his first fight," said Butler.

But he turned it down and spent the rest of his life in Cuba, leaving a question of what might have been.

Butler revealed that heavyweight legend George Foreman once told him that Stevenson was "the class of that heavyweight era and would have dominated every heavyweight had he turned professional."

Outside the ring, Stevenson was a political tool and symbol for Fidel Castro's communist regime in Cuba.

"Castro always used boxing and Teofilo Stevenson was his great champion, his favourite athlete," Butler explained, recounting how Stevenson's weighed up decision not to defect, choosing between wealth in the US, and not leaving his family behind in Cuba.

A few years ago, Butler interviewed Stevenson and the latter wanted money to sit down for the chat, and one then wonders whether his alcoholism and personal descent was related to his decision to remain in Cuba.

Butler then discussed the dilemma faced by Cuban fighters who decide to defect and turn professional in the US.

Will try find time for a listen, certainly a fascinating story and one that's been around for a while - the man that could've beaten 'peak' Ali (presuming you side-step the argument that peak Ali should've been in his 67-70 hiatus). And arguably not just beaten, but could've actually dominated him.

But he chose to retire a living legend in his own country.

Could he have beaten Ali, why not? Would he have beaten Ali in his first fight? Not a chance, IMO.

Never in a million years.............Ali had it all........Movement, speed, power, defence....

Stevenson was a great amateur but suited to the Amateur game..

Jorge Gonzalez was supposed to be the real deal...Dead bust as a pro..

Frazier, Foreman and Holmes all beat Stevo to me...As does Page/Witherspoon over the longer distance..

Its a timing thing re stevenson and Ali. By 1976 Ali was there for the taking, but would stevenson gave been the taker?

How well stevenson goes in the pro ranks? Well, history is littered with guys who made the transition and guys who didn't, so its impossible to tell, but he could fight that's for sure and being a very top drawer amateur certainly gives you every chance.

It's always a foreman quote in articles like this. He cracks me up. If ever you want some good publicity for your guy, offer George a hamburger and he'll say he's the greatest.

Lewis was the greatest sometime back....  

The Ali of 1976 had a lot less of all those things that Truss has mentioned, in fairness, so who knows?

That said, it takes a bit of a leap of faith to say that Stevenson could have just waltzed in to the pro game and beaten Ali at the first time of asking, even if it was a post-prime version of Ali, for the simple reason that Cubans don't have a great track record of fulfilling the potential their amateur records suggest they have once they've switched sides. The amateur game of the seventies was a bit more akin to the pro game than it was now, but still had fundamental differences and couldn't really prepare you fully for some of the hard grind of the pro ranks, such as conditioning over the longer course, inside fighting and mastery of the dark arts etc.

I'd take what Foreman says with a pinch of salt. He's described everyone from Ali, to Louis, to Lennox and then to Matt Skelton as the greatest Heavyweight of all time in his role as a pundit.

Had enough of those things to beat Shavers, Lyle and Norton.........

Breland showed how good a guy can look in three rounds..

Not talking about the Honey humiliation..

Didn't really look his old self in any of those fights though, beefster. Shavers and Lyle don't really have owt in common with Stevenson from a styles point of view. Norton was the only one with a shred of similarity, and Ali needed a bit of a gift to get past Ken in that third fight.

Don't get me wrong, like I said I'd still have to go with Ali, but in the summer of '76 after his second Olympic gold Stevenson would definitely have been catching Ali at an opportune time. It was only eighteen months later than Ali was losing to Neon Leon, and Spinks may as well have still been an amateur given his paltry experience as a professional at that time.

Three round fighter................

But we can agree to disagree..........

I think Frazier and foreman beat him in two.............

Norton, Ali and Holmes later in the fight..........

Kelcie Banks, Maynard, Tate, Seales all looked like Ray Robbo in that format...

You think Frazier beats everyone in two... Never mind the fact he only did it thrice after his first world title fight.

There hasn't been an amateur heavyweight from history that was able to make the leap to the pros without an extended period of sculpting and moulding and so, as brilliant as Stevenson was, it's difficult to imagine him being an immediate force in the pros -- despite the fact Ali was fading out in '76.

Would Stevenson have been able to navigate 15 rounds? Doubtful. And he'd have needed to in order to defeat Ali.

Pete Rademacher was an Olympic gold medallist who faced heavyweight champ Floyd Patterson in his first pro fight. Despite knocking Floyd down in the second, Pete was up and down like a yo-yo and halted in six.

It's such a shame he wasn't able to turn over in '72 and work his way through the ranks. What a fantastic addition to a fantastic era.

Similarly, Felix Savon would have enhanced the 90's mix.

Hard to say with Stevenson, there was never an amateur heavyweight quite like him. He was also 6'5" so he was a very tall guy for the times. Throw in the skill levels he had at the height and I think he would have done very well as a oro. Jumping from the amateur ranks straight into a fight with the wily Ali looks like too big of a jump for a first pro fight though.

Trussy still fiercely defending his favourite fighter I see.

kingraf wrote:You think Frazier beats everyone in two... Never mind the fact he only did it thrice after his first world title fight.

I said Louis in one.........

Louis beats Fraizer in one?

I would have said late stoppage or points win for Louis.

My guess is If one dimensional sluggers like Schmelling, Braddock, Galento and countless others can find his chin and Conn can stagger him..

Frazier only needs to land once...

If you can convince me little Joe can push Frazier back like Foreman did...........Then you can probably sell me oil in the Pennines..

90-120 seconds..............Be like Tyson - Truth williams..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:My guess is If one dimensional sluggers like Schmelling, Braddock, Galento and countless others can find his chin and Conn can stagger him..

Frazier only needs to land once...

If you can convince me little Joe can push Frazier back like Foreman did...........Then you can probably sell me oil in the Pennines..

90-120 seconds..............Be like Tyson - Truth williams..

Keep on dreaming...........