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England Squad for 1st Test vs India

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Post by GSC Wed 02 Jul 2014, 3:19 pm

BBC TMS@bbctms 14m
England Squad - Cook, Robson, Ballance, Bell, Root, Ali. Prior, Stokes, Jordan, Broad, Anderson, Plunkett, Woakes

Stokes returns
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Post by GSC Wed 02 Jul 2014, 3:20 pm

Probably Jordan to be dropped for Stokes, otherwise same side
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Post by msp83 Wed 02 Jul 2014, 3:51 pm

Stokes in is the right thing to do.
Perhaps they'd think its too radical to go in with him as he's pacy and might go for a few runs?
Anyone think they'll drop Ali for the TB test and bring in 5 seamers including Stokes and Jordan?

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Post by KP_fan Wed 02 Jul 2014, 7:08 pm

Ohh....they selected Cook..interesting.

Jordan and Woakes would sit out
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Post by guildfordbat Thu 03 Jul 2014, 9:22 am

Indecision and overkill from the selectors on the allrounders. Makes me think of the Three Talls in Australia. Would have been better for all to leave one of Woakes, Stokes and Jordan out at this stage telling him he's not forgotten but to go back and do the business for his county.

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Post by alfie Thu 03 Jul 2014, 9:36 am

I know selector bashing is currently fashionable  Smile  , but given the match is a week away picking thirteen is standard practice , bowlers having a habit of picking up injuries in training . I imagine someone (presumably Woakes ) will be released well before the off.

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Post by guildfordbat Thu 03 Jul 2014, 12:25 pm

Bashing or fair comment? There were definitely certain individual signs of promise against Sri Lanka and the selectors merit credit for some of that; in particular, the recall of Plunkett. However, they're still some way from restoring their credibility as far as I'm concerned given another series defeat wiithout a Test win and their reliance upon a captain who appears to me as unfit for purpose.

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Post by GSC Thu 03 Jul 2014, 12:29 pm

Issue is, theres really nobody else as captaincy material.
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Post by Stella Thu 03 Jul 2014, 12:50 pm

GSC wrote:Issue is, theres really nobody else as captaincy material.

Root long term. Cook deserves the Indian series at least.
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Post by robbo277 Thu 03 Jul 2014, 7:56 pm

msp83 wrote:Stokes in is the right thing to do.
Perhaps they'd think its too radical to go in with him as he's pacy and might go for a few runs?
Anyone think they'll drop Ali for the TB test and bring in 5 seamers including Stokes and Jordan?

I hope not.

I guess the thinking is that Trent Bridge will favour the seamers? If your 4 best quicks can't pick up 10 wickets on a seam-friendly pitch then I'm not sure what a 5th will add. If we bat first and the pitch starts to take turn in the 4th innings, then we'd be in trouble going in with just Root as our only spin option. Ali's not even that much better.

I'd stick with Ali and bring in Stokes for Jordan. I think Stokes offers a bit more than Jordan with the ball and a lot more with the bat.

I think eventually we will need a second spinner in there, assuming Ali stays in there. I'd possibly lean towards Kerrigan, and I'd definitely be looking to bring him in for Plunkett on pitches that might flatten out or start to turn.

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Post by NickisBHAFC Thu 03 Jul 2014, 11:01 pm

Yeah Sir Chris will probably have to back down to Stokes i recon. Tough call though as i thought Jordan did very well.

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Post by KP_fan Fri 04 Jul 2014, 1:22 pm

jordan did very well for a debutant, but people must remeber Stokes did even better as a debutant against a much tougher opponent.

we should also remember its 5 back to back tests, atleast for India with no more side / practise games.

and seamers from both sides will get fatigued if not fully break down.
So Jordan will get his chances.
atleast on the english side there is a realization of fatigue factor in test match bowling.

India and Dhoni in particular does understand the fatigue / rest / recuperation concept and by T3 we will see Indian seamers trundling like beasts of burden at 125kph.

Its a grave mistake for India to play a 5 test series.
Two or three tests is max they should aim for , because that gives best chances of holding on a draw and sneaking a win before the already shoddy bowling tires.
It almost worked in SA where a 10% more effort could have turned the results into one win and one draw
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Post by king_carlos Sat 05 Jul 2014, 8:10 pm

I still can't help but feel this isn't the pace attack to play 4 seamers with. We really need a front line spinner in there even if it's a guy we don't feel is yet up to scratch. I just don't feel this battery of pacemen have the ability to really cause issues with an old ball and we could end up leaking runs with little options to change things up.

In a four man seam attack you need a pacemen who can run in when the ball isn't doing much for the seamers and make something happen. I just don't feel this group of seamers for all their attributes have that.

1.Cook
2.Robson
3.Ballance
4.Bell
5.Root
6.Stokes or Ali
7.Prior
8.Plunkett
9.Broad
10.Anderson
11.Kerrigan or Panesar if he can get himself sorted!

The harsh part in this would be having to leave Ali or Stokes out both of whom have impressed in short Test careers. However I can't help but feel this would look a much more balanced side.

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Post by alfie Sun 06 Jul 2014, 12:07 pm

Only makes sense if you think that either Kerrigan or Panesar would be more likely to take wickets than one of the seamers...otherwise all you get is a better over rate - and probably "leaking runs" quicker.

At Trent Bridge I wouldn't even consider bothering with a not up to scratch spinner.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 06 Jul 2014, 8:11 pm

Alfie

On a spinning pitch I definitely believe they would yes. Furthermore on a seaming pitch we should really be backing three seamers (or even 4 if Stokes is at 6) to do the job.

It's not a criticism fresh for this set-up, I've just never really liked the look of a test or first class side without a frontline spinner in it. A four man seam attack needs variety in it and a bowler or two who can do something a bit different with the old ball. I just don't feel that suits our current crop of seamers.

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Post by alfie Tue 08 Jul 2014, 11:12 am

Fair enough , king Carlos ...I haven't seen enough of Kerrigan to be honest (though his effort at The Oval last year was distinctly underwhelming ; not just in results but in the rather passive look of his bowling. But Panesar can't get a game for Essex at present so you can see why I don't have a lot of confidence...

I agree with you in principle , a spinner is something you want as part of an attack. But (especially on a pitch that is more favourable to seam than spin ) I am pragmatic enough to prefer four seamers of some proven ability - and who can mostly contribute with the bat - along with the part timers , rather than picking anyone labelled "full time spinner" just for the sake of it. Remember also Indian batsmen cut their teeth on finger spinners...

Eventually , of course , a proper spinner has to be brought through. But right now I think winning a few matches is the priority ; and I reckon pace is the way to go .

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Post by guildfordbat Wed 09 Jul 2014, 9:43 am

alfie wrote:Fair enough , king Carlos ...I haven't seen enough of Kerrigan to be honest (though his effort at The Oval last year was distinctly underwhelming ; not just in results but in the rather passive look of his bowling.  But Panesar can't get a game for Essex at present so you can see why I don't have a lot of confidence...

I agree with you in principle , a spinner is something you want as part of an attack. But  (especially on a pitch that is more favourable to seam than spin ) I am pragmatic enough to prefer four seamers of some proven ability - and who can mostly contribute with the bat - along with the part timers , rather than picking anyone labelled "full time spinner" just for the sake of it.  Remember also Indian batsmen cut their teeth on finger spinners...

Eventually , of course , a proper spinner has to be brought through.  But right now I think winning a few matches is the priority ; and I reckon pace is the way to go .

Apparently Kerrigan has been bowling in the nets with the England squad at Trent Bridge over the last two days. Despite my being labelled a "selector basher" (that's right isn't it, Alfie? Wink ), I think that's a good move on several levels.

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Post by alfie Wed 09 Jul 2014, 12:20 pm

Didn't mean to label you so crudely , guildford  Smile  Though I did feel you were perhaps looking for things to complain about in the lead up to this game ?
Agree Kerrigan getting time with the squad is a good idea : he needs to feel comfortable with the team before being tried again , and I suspect the selectors think Monty's day is done so he is the likely man when they play a spinner later in this series.

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