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Harlequins 2014/15 Thread

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Post by Sam Mon 18 Aug 2014, 2:10 pm

First topic message reminder :

Squad for 2014/15 Season:
Hookers: Rob Buchanan, Joe Gray, Dave Ward
Props: Will Collier, Paul Doran-Jones, Mark Lambert, Darryl Marfo, Joe Marler (c), Kyle Sinckler
Locks: Charlie Matthews, George Merrick, George Robson, Sam Twomey
Backrow: Chris Robshaw, Joe Trayfoot, Luke Wallace, Jack Clifford, Nick Easter
Scrum Half: Danny Care, Karl Dickson, Sam Stuart
Fly Half: Ben Botica, Nick Evans
Centre: Tom Casson, Matt Hopper, George Lowe, Jordan Turner-Hall
Wing: Ugo Monye, Asaeli Tikoirotuma, Charlie Walker, Tom Williams, Marland Yarde
Fullback: Mike Brown, Ross Chisholm, Ollie Lindsay-Hague

Players in: Asaeli Tikoirotuma (Waikato Chiefs), Marland Yarde (London Irish)

Players out: Tom Guest (London Irish), Sam Smith (Worcester Warriors), Samoa Maurie Fa'asavalu (Oyonnax), Nick Kennedy (retired), Tim Molenaar (London Welsh), Nic Mayhew (North Harbour), Paul Sackey (retired)

Pre-season:
FC Grenoble - Harlequins 16/08/14
Harlequins - Pau 23/08/14
Glasgow Warriors - Harlequins 23/08/14

Come on you Quins!!!  Fingers Crossed

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Post by propdavid_london Tue 24 Feb 2015, 9:29 am

I agree with all the above. Very strange recruitment policy.
Quins need that direct runner in the middle to create space for Lowe and the back 3. Yarde would probably be looking a lot better purchase if he had more space to run into rather than just taking the ball to contact like he seems to at the moment.

JTH drop in form seems to have been getting worse and worse - He has never properly recovered from the shoulder injury several seasons back.
Casson hasnt stepped up and Hopper is massively inconsistent.
Your right LT - Molenar should have been retained for another season ( I am not sure what the circumstances are of his leaving).
Ticks was supposed to be able to cover centre as well as wing - but thats not happened at all (is he injured)?

I always thought that Mo leaving would cause a bit of a problem for Quins too. Robshaw/Easter/Wallace/Clifford all offer a lot in certain areas, but none of them offer the sheer physicality that Mo brought - those monster tackles that can change a game or the big smashing carries (although Clifford has had a few of those).

Scrummaging, the Quins pack is OK with Marler and Sinkler/Casson (when fit).
Top of the purchase list has to be a physical/direct centre, a big hitting back row and another preferably monstorous second row to partner Horwell (unless Matthews progresses).

The WC is normally a good shop window - and Quins need to splash the cash (or whatever cash they have left).

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Post by yappysnap Tue 24 Feb 2015, 10:43 am

The other side effect of not getting a decent 12 has been Lowe having to convert to that position.

Really not good for a guy who just broke his neck and now unsurprisingly is out injured again suffering from dizzy spells.

Which ever coach thought of making Lowe run crash balls all game needs a kicking.

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Post by yappysnap Tue 24 Feb 2015, 10:45 am

Oh and CoS recent comments about trusting him, the academy and the plan that he has, coupled with him stating that we're up to the cap (how the hell have we managed that?) leads me to think that Horwill is the only signing that we can expect next season, and he won't play until the new year probably!

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Post by propdavid_london Tue 24 Feb 2015, 11:02 am

We really havent signed a huge number of new players but we have been promoting from the academy a lot.
I agree that it was not a good idea to convert Lowe to 12 when he was an exceptional 13. And, as you say - be the crash ball option.
Presumably because Casson and Hopper dont have the skills to swap in.

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Post by propdavid_london Tue 24 Feb 2015, 11:13 am

Thinking about the kind of guys I would like to bring in - (not saying they would be available - or even consider it)

Someone like Michael Paterson (the Sale moving to Saints 2nd row) would have been useful.
Big ball carrying back row - Sione Kalamafoni, Dave Ewers
Centers - the Sale boys, Sam Tuitupou, Leota. Burrell would be useful (basically someone that would be the JTH of old or better).

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Post by formerly known as Sam Tue 24 Feb 2015, 1:03 pm

The thing is it's not that difficult to find a centre that can truck the ball up. Tigers just pulled Jack Roberts from obscurity in the Championship with Rotherham. Most clubs are looking for the attacking spark to work around their bruisers as physicality is normally easy to purchase. Quick are in the strange situation of having the creative spark but being unable to secure some physicality which you'd have thought could be obtained at a relatively economically efficient price.

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Post by yappysnap Tue 24 Feb 2015, 5:04 pm

I don't know why we haven't pinched a league player if we want a hard running centre, surely that's what they're good at and they won't expect massive wages.

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Post by LondonTiger Tue 24 Feb 2015, 6:11 pm

yappysnap wrote:I don't know why we haven't pinched a league player if we want a hard running centre, surely that's what they're good at and they won't expect massive wages.

Average price for a 3 bed house in Huddersfield - £145k
Average price for a 3 bed house in Twickenham - £609k

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Post by ChequeredJersey Tue 24 Feb 2015, 7:35 pm

We should just have kept Molenaar. Except he had a huge injury soon after leaving but we didn't know that
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Post by yappysnap Tue 24 Feb 2015, 8:59 pm

Both those statements are true

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Post by propdavid_london Wed 25 Feb 2015, 9:36 am

So, are Quins being disadvantaged by being a london club?
By that argument Quins should be appealing for an increase in the salary cap - much like a london waiting for key workers have.
I wonder how that would go down with the PRL and the other clubs - but it does seem like a genuine disadvantage.

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Post by yappysnap Wed 25 Feb 2015, 10:09 am

Can't see it happening unfortunately, it'd cause too much friction with the other clubs who we'd need to vote in favour of it.

The problem isn't just london but all the counties surrounding it, you have to either live in a dump or travel about 45 miles from London to start seeing large reductions. And even then 3 bed houses will be £250,000+ (Sussex/Kent and further).

Not sure what we can do really other then perhaps offer more IPad's, higher education and trips to Oktoberfest Wink

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Post by HongKongCherry Wed 25 Feb 2015, 1:07 pm

propdavid_london wrote:So, are Quins being disadvantaged by being a london club?  
By that argument Quins should be appealing for an increase in the salary cap - much like a london waiting for key workers have.  
I wonder how that would go down with the PRL and the other clubs - but it does seem like a genuine disadvantage.
I am being immensely facetious but where would you draw the line? Newcastle could argue that people don't want to live in the cold NE and have to pay more to attract players. Likewise, Bath could argue that that living in Swindon isn't a positive attraction! Wink

Seriously, there is a strong argument because there is no doubt Quins are at a disadvantage, but for any change to happen you'd have to have the rest of the PRL agree to this. I can't see Glaws or any other non-London side agreeing to a change that would disadvantage them.
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Post by propdavid_london Wed 25 Feb 2015, 2:24 pm

Especially considering that the only other london side is now Sarries.
It was just a thought. Although Quins are based in Twickenham their training base is in Surrey sports park (Guildford). Its a bit further out and things like housing can be cheaper there too compared to Teddington/Richmond/Kingston.

On a different note - Quins sign a back rower -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31623083

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Post by yappysnap Wed 25 Feb 2015, 2:29 pm

He played the last two games I think, handy signing to make especially while Easter is away.

What contracts he on?

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Post by propdavid_london Wed 25 Feb 2015, 2:45 pm

I think it says just till the end of the season for now.

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Post by LondonTiger Mon 23 Mar 2015, 3:32 pm

Ugo to retire at end of season.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32022612

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Post by sad_gimp Mon 23 Mar 2015, 3:43 pm

Makes the Visser talk make more sense...I think with Tiks/Yarde/Visser we have a much better strike force which has been competent but nothing more for a long time.

A bit more ballast in the second row, and a big lump of a center and I think we'll be pretty set...although we do suffer from england call ups now that Robshaw/Brown/Marler have proved themselves.

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Post by ChequeredJersey Mon 23 Mar 2015, 4:15 pm

mid_gen wrote:Makes the Visser talk make more sense...I think with Tiks/Yarde/Visser we have a much better strike force which has been competent but nothing more for a long time.

A bit more ballast in the second row, and a big lump of a center and I think we'll be pretty set...although we do suffer from england call ups now that Robshaw/Brown/Marler have proved themselves.

Heard rumours about Gorgodze on CAW too...

Add in loose rumours on Adam Jones, Roberts, Benson Stanley and you have to hope that maybe one is true?
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Post by yappysnap Mon 23 Mar 2015, 5:17 pm

And rumours ok Nikki Williams from Ulster too.

Still not sure about Visser, think another big name wing is the bottom of our list.

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Post by propdavid_london Tue 24 Mar 2015, 8:22 am

Benson Stanley or Roberts would help the centers situation.
Gorgodze or Williams would help the carrying options.

Not sure if Jones would be worth the money we would have to pay for him though!

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Post by ChequeredJersey Tue 24 Mar 2015, 9:05 pm

Neil Fissler ‏@neilfissler 
EXCLUSIVE: Hearing from my top scoop scout Jamie Roberts has agreed to join Harlequins. Still trying to confirm to be 100% sure #rugbyunited
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Post by quinsforever Tue 24 Mar 2015, 9:29 pm

would be amazing if true! fingers crossed...

wonder why us and not back to wales on a dual contract?

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Post by ChequeredJersey Wed 25 Mar 2015, 12:02 am

Might want a new challenge, might not want a dual contract, or being a doctor he might want the London career prospects
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Post by king_carlos Wed 25 Mar 2015, 1:55 am

Roberts would demand a marquee contract with Nev I'm presuming still filling the other.

Given Horwill and Visser have already been signed how much space will that be leaving in the cap to sign the big ball carrier in the pack that you need?

That's before thinking about the Adam Jones rumours as well.

Gorgodze or Nick Williams would be brilliant signings for Quins but neither will come cheap.

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Post by yappysnap Wed 25 Mar 2015, 8:02 am

So there's the extra 500k plus the money from Ugo, Robson and Trayfoot which must come to about another 300-500k. Plus there's also the second marquee space.

Should be enough for Horwill, Roberts, Visser and another

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Post by yappysnap Wed 25 Mar 2015, 8:40 am

Just seen on twitter that Colin Slade is out of contract at the end of the season too. Sign him up Quins!!

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Post by propdavid_london Wed 25 Mar 2015, 8:47 am

Well, that all sounds hopeful - lets hope that some of these roumours are true.
Roberts currently looks to be in a great vein of form - but he will also be away for large chunks of the season on international duty.
I would imagine that Nick Williams would be a bit cheaper than Gorgodzilla (coming from France).

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Post by ChequeredJersey Wed 25 Mar 2015, 8:51 am

king_carlos wrote:Roberts would demand a marquee contract with Nev I'm presuming still filling the other.

Given Horwill and Visser have already been signed how much space will that be leaving in the cap to sign the big ball carrier in the pack that you need?

That's before thinking about the Adam Jones rumours as well.

Gorgodze or Nick Williams would be brilliant signings for Quins but neither will come cheap.

Reckon Ugo is on a fair bit. PDJ too. TW is gonna retire probably. Robson on a fair bit. Trayfoot probably not on much. Add in the extra 500, the new marquee player, and we probably have enough. Depends how the renegotiation proves for out resignings went as well
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Post by yappysnap Wed 25 Mar 2015, 9:10 am

Reckon the guys leaving probably amounts to another 500k+

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Post by doctornickolas Wed 25 Mar 2015, 9:23 am

propdavid_london wrote:Well, that all sounds hopeful - lets hope that some of these roumours are true.  
Roberts currently looks to be in a great vein of form - but he will also be away for large chunks of the season on international duty.
I would imagine that Nick Williams would be a bit cheaper than Gorgodzilla (coming from France).

If Roberts signs for Quins he won't be away for long periods as he won't get selected for Wales.

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Post by yappysnap Wed 25 Mar 2015, 10:59 am

Really??

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Post by LondonTiger Wed 25 Mar 2015, 11:20 am

A lot will depend on what the new Welsh coach is looking to do with the team.

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Post by doctornickolas Wed 25 Mar 2015, 12:04 pm

yappysnap wrote:Really??

From Walesonline relating to the new deal signed by regions and WRU earlier this year

"There is also a plan to implement Gatland's Law, whereby players who in future sign deals with clubs outside of Wales will only be considered for international duty in exceptional circumstances."

I think there is a bit of a concession if they stay with the same club but if he is moving from France to England then the implementation of Gatland's Law would affect him. Whether they will come up with exceptional circumstances I don't know

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed 25 Mar 2015, 12:19 pm

I'd say the Roberts thing is unlikely, Racing have said he is contracted to them until the end of next season, so for anyone to sign him it wold involve buying him out of that contract

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32043360
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Post by Notch Wed 25 Mar 2015, 1:03 pm

yappysnap wrote:And rumours ok Nikki Williams from Ulster too.

Would be very happy with this as it would free up a spot for Ulster to bring in another Non-Irish back rower. Williams is good to watch and is an unbelievably powerful carrier at close quarters but he's also;

a) A penalty magnet
b) As likely to turn the ball over with showboating offloads and one-handed carries as he is to find a teammate
c) Not at all influential at the breakdown
d) Injury prone

All in all, if Ulster get shot of him a year early and replace him with a truly top class number 8, it would be an outstanding piece of business.
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Post by yappysnap Wed 25 Mar 2015, 3:22 pm

He sounds perfect for Quins then Notch!

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Post by ChequeredJersey Wed 25 Mar 2015, 5:45 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I'd say the Roberts thing is unlikely, Racing have said he is contracted to them until the end of next season, so for anyone to sign him it wold involve buying him out of that contract

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32043360

He's very very keen to leave apparently. We'll see
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Post by propdavid_london Thu 26 Mar 2015, 9:28 am

I suppose its possible if Roberts really wants to leave he could buy himself out of his contract.

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Post by ChequeredJersey Thu 26 Mar 2015, 9:36 am

Like Castro did
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Post by sad_gimp Thu 26 Mar 2015, 10:21 am

Adam Jones in....

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Post by propdavid_london Thu 26 Mar 2015, 10:58 am

Mixed feelings about Adam Jones! He has been a bit of a penalty machine of late and not adapted to the new engage rules well.
How long is the contract? It would be good if he gets the time needed to bed in properly.

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Post by XR Thu 26 Mar 2015, 11:20 am

I'm actually happy to have Adam Jones off the wage bill at the blues. Can do a job at scrum time but around the park you can see why he's not in the Wales squad. He leaves huge gaps round the side of the ruck when defending and has missed a few tackles at key moments.

Not sure what to make of an impact he could make in the premiership. I don't think he'll be first choice, and will probably be scrapping for a place on the bench.

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Post by propdavid_london Thu 26 Mar 2015, 12:00 pm

I am sure Quins would have spent lots of cash on someone to just warm the bench (aside form PDJ).
Surely Jones would start and have Sinkler of Collier coming on for the last 20mins.

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Post by cb Thu 26 Mar 2015, 12:06 pm

Not a Quins fan (but do like to watch them play), but generally I am not a fan of the marquee system - many seem to under deliver or imbalance the side.  Surely it would be best to grab talented but maybe younger players.

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Post by cb Thu 26 Mar 2015, 12:06 pm

Not a Quins fan (but do like to watch them play), but generally I am not a fan of the marquee system - many seem to under deliver or imbalance the side.  Surely it would be best to grab talented but maybe younger players.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Thu 26 Mar 2015, 12:23 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:I'd say the Roberts thing is unlikely, Racing have said he is contracted to them until the end of next season, so for anyone to sign him it wold involve buying him out of that contract

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32043360

He's very very keen to leave apparently. We'll see

I'm definitely hearing different things from different places about Roberts. I have heard that Racing will part-fund his move to Quins (sort of a loan where they pay £X of Roberts wages too). That doesn't seem to add up to me mind.

Also over the last few years we have certainly started to had to the football type transfer system. Ben Morgan, and George North were both bought out of hteir contracts by their new clubs, Castro did it himself, and now apparently Roberts is looking possible to be similar, and there is rumour of a £150k offer to the Dragons for Faletau by Bath.
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Post by propdavid_london Thu 26 Mar 2015, 1:18 pm

I must admit that I thought Collier was developing nicely untill injury disrupted his season and last season.
Sinkler really stepped up but showed some real immaturity at times with a very firey nature (sign of youth) and I am sure that will eventually get sorted. But these chaps are only going to get better with game time. Jones coming in will disrupt that - but what Quins are hoping for is that Jones will be a quick fix and offer experience in a rather in-experienced tight 5 at the moment.
We will have to see how things develop - but I have mixed feelings on this.

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Post by The Saint Thu 26 Mar 2015, 2:01 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:I'd say the Roberts thing is unlikely, Racing have said he is contracted to them until the end of next season, so for anyone to sign him it wold involve buying him out of that contract

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32043360

He's very very keen to leave apparently. We'll see

I'm definitely hearing different things from different places about Roberts.  I have heard that Racing will part-fund his move to Quins (sort of a loan where they pay £X of Roberts wages too).  That doesn't seem to add up to me mind.

Also over the last few years we have certainly started to had to the football type transfer system.  Ben Morgan, and George North were both bought out of hteir contracts by their new clubs, Castro did it himself, and now apparently Roberts is looking possible to be similar, and there is rumour of a £150k offer to the Dragons for Faletau by Bath.

Again? When are those guys gonna learn.

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Post by ChequeredJersey Thu 26 Mar 2015, 6:05 pm

cb wrote:Not a Quins fan (but do like to watch them play), but generally I am not a fan of the marquee system - many seem to under deliver or imbalance the side.  Surely it would be best to grab talented but maybe younger players.

In theory we have lots of those but they need experience and aren't quite ready. Nobody sane will let their best youngsters go, and the academy approach has always been our way but this year it's left us outgunned by lots of clubs.
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