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The Official *England's Passage to Paris 2016* Thread

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Post by Duty281 Thu 28 Aug 2014, 12:21 pm

First topic message reminder :

Onwards, we go. Latest England squad has been named for the friendly against Norway, and the opening qualifier versus Switzerland.

Goalkeepers: Fraser Forster (Southampton), Ben Foster (West Bromwich Albion), Joe Hart (Manchester City)
Defenders: Leighton Baines (Everton), Gary Cahill (Chelsea), Calum Chambers (Arsenal), Phil Jagielka (Everton), Phil Jones (Manchester United), Danny Rose (Tottenham Hotspur), John Stones (Everton)
Midfielders: Jack Colback (Newcastle United), Fabian Delph (Aston Villa), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), James Milner (Manchester City), Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (Arsenal) Raheem Sterling (Liverpool), Andros Townsend (Tottenham Hotspur), Jack Wilshere (Arsenal)
Forwards: Rickie Lambert (Liverpool), Wayne Rooney (Manchester United), Daniel Sturridge (Liverpool), Danny Welbeck (Manchester United)

You know, such a squad does not fill me to the brim with optimism!

Best side we can muster out of that, assuming Roy takes a 4-2-3-1 shape, would probably be:

Hart, Stones, Jagielka, Cahill, Baines, Henderson, Wilshere, Sterling, Rooney, Oxlade, and Sturridge.


Last edited by Duty281 on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 08 Sep 2014, 6:30 pm

Typical England fan on twitter

"Why are you picking guys like Cleverley over someone in form like delph"

Delph gets picked and played

"Why is delph playing he's not good"
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Post by Fernando Mon 08 Sep 2014, 7:15 pm

Swiss team
01 Sommer 05 Von Bergen 13 Rodriguez 20 Djourou 02 Lichtsteiner 08 Inler 11 Behrami
18 Mehmedi 23 Shaqiri 10 Xhaka 09 Seferovic

Surprised Schaar & Drmic not starting for the Swiss

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Post by Breadvan Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:01 pm

Some good build ups by England but technique and composure letting us down......as usual.
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Post by owen10ozzy Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:04 pm

Great start from Rooney so far; 2 poor passes, offside when he can see across the line and an awful touch when in shooting position! Captain Marvel!

Also whoever said they can see England doing just enough to qualify...if that is the case then Hodgson should be shown the door..anything other than a very comfortable qualification would be embarrassing given it's the top two who qualify and we have Slovenia, San Marino, Lithuania and Estonia outside of Switzerland!!!

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Post by Crimey Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:04 pm

Wilshere has got to be more open to receiving the ball. The diamond for Liverpool only really works because of Gerrard accepting the ball so often. I do think Wilshere should attempt to evolve his game as a deep lying midfielder as with Arteta getting older and no obvious English holding midfielders that's where he is most likely to get games.

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Post by Crimey Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:05 pm

Surprised at how happy Switzerland have been to just sit back.

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Post by hampo17 Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:06 pm

Delph can' tackle, lucky he didn't see yellow for the first one but the second one was just stupid. He's a red card waiting to happen.

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Post by Crimey Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:09 pm

Yeah can't see Delph lasting 90 minutes, either because he will be sent off or taken off as a liability.

Wilshere is really frustrating at the moment, he's supposed to be playmaking from deep but seems to be hiding behind Swiss players when there's a possibility of a pass.

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Post by Steffan Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:09 pm

Crikey how negative have Switzerland been so far. I want them to win ofcourse but come on up the tempo a bit lads

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Post by Fernando Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:10 pm

If Delph keeps going in like he does he'll be off before HT

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Post by Steffan Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:14 pm

Delph getting a red before half time would be great and help the Switz. They should wind him up a bit more

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Post by The Special Juan Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:15 pm

Arsenal's Danny Welbeck folks!! Laugh
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Post by owen10ozzy Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:15 pm

Bet Wilshere is more frustrated than anyone on here! Another player being asked to play a role not natural to his strengths...at least not maximising them! Why would I want to see him sit in front of the back 4 trying to be a 'deep lying playmaker' when he can play bang in the middle of the park 20 yards further forward and actually influence the game!

This whole tactical shape bullcrap spouted by Hodgson is basically an excuse to dress up what he means 'my team will be compact and organised with slow tempo' save one or two form players who will make it look like I'm trying to be exciting...I.e...Sterling or Barkely or next youngster to shine! Shocking pass from Welbeck!

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Post by NickisBHAFC Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:16 pm

Jack Wilshere playing? Done fu*k all. That pass from Welbeck there was inexcusable. What on earth was he thinking.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:17 pm

Frak me Owen do you ever stop moaning
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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:17 pm

In a nutshell why Welbeck is so frustrating, his pace and touches of class can cause anybody problems but his final ball and finishing leave a lot to be desired.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:18 pm

Should be 2 up, sterling and Welbeck both with poor final balls costing an overload
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:19 pm

Good save Hart
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Post by owen10ozzy Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:21 pm

I do Olly; when what I see is anything actually resembling decent! Won't apologise for finding a national team who have been dour for years frustrating to watch. Nor for thinking it's inexcusable how we continue to waste and stunt the growth of players talent by asking them to play in positions or roles which do not suit there natural game!

We have 3 midfielders..one who can actually pick out short, intelligent passes ...where do we play him...in Defensive midfield..

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Post by Crimey Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:22 pm

I am sorry but Wilshere has never made an impact for England further forward. He constantly runs into players and on the evidence of this game it must be because he's allergic to it! He's in a position in which he should have the time and space to make a difference and not have his ankle clipped but he's just not asking for the ball enough. He needs to be demanding it off of the defenders not shying away.

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Post by Steffan Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:24 pm

I can't see Switzerland scoring at this rate. Hoping for a better second half

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:25 pm

Where exactly did Pirlo, Xavi and Scholes make there name as being master passers of the ball, oh yes in deep sitting midfield.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:26 pm

Gets Henderson, Delph, Sterling, Rooney, Welbeck in there natural position, play Wilshere in a role people have suggested he adapts too, still moans.

Can't please ya I swear
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Post by Crimey Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:26 pm

Looking at England and listening to Hodgson after the Norway game, I think Roy was expecting Switzerland to be much more attacking threat than they are posing and now that England do have the ball for a long time they're not prepared.

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Post by Crimey Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:29 pm

I said earlier in the thread that for me Wilshere's best shot at remaining at the top level of the game is to adapt his game to the deep lying role. That is where a spot is open in at club level for him and international level if the diamond is stuck with. He's shown time and time again further forward that he runs straight into opposition and then falls over holding his ankle. Injury worries and have a lack of dribbling ability of lessened his quality there but his passing is still decent so with a bit of fine tuning he could have a good future in the deep lying playmaker role.

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Post by Fernando Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:31 pm

The Special Juan wrote:Arsenal's Danny Welbeck folks!!  Laugh

Could be worse could be paying 300k for a fat scouser to run about and do not much apart from having a team wrapped round his finger Whistle

#BetterThenSanogo Whistle


Personally i dislike this diamond formation not sure it suits England tbh.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:35 pm

Pretty decent half that, should really be 1/2 up if had a better final ball but dominating the game and chances are coming

I like the diamond, always an advocate. In delph/Henderson have two middle men that make it work great with there mobility and runs forward.
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Post by owen10ozzy Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:35 pm

Think teams just know they can sit in deep against Engalnd and knick one tbh Crimey! I means it's hardly like were a renowned force for breaking teams down in the final 3rd is it! We'd struggle to find a way through an open door half the time.

As for the Pirlo comment, scholes and Pirlo didn't play as deep lying midfielders in there hey day..they played as CM not DM! Even Xavi doesn't sit as deep as Wilshere is here! Wilshere may be choosing to do so but given how Hodgson has always set his teams out I doubt that's the case; always wants one person sat 8-10 yds in front of back four.

Olly - If that comment was at me; I don't Want Rooney playing, I'm not a fan of Welbeck..provides energy and little else as shown in first half and Sterling looks like a man who doesn't know his role .


Last edited by owen10ozzy on Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by The Special Juan Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:35 pm

Fernando wrote:
The Special Juan wrote:Arsenal's Danny Welbeck folks!!  Laugh

Could be worse could be paying 300k for a fat scouser to run about and do not much apart from having a team wrapped round his finger Whistle .

Did I hit a nerve there? Whistle Wazza to score the winner at the Emirates this season boxing
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Post by Crimey Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:37 pm

Wasn't too bad half really, perspective being away from home at a quite difficult side. Still maintain Wilshere needs to get more into the game, so does Sterling who hasn't really had a chance to run at the team yet.

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Post by Fernando Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:38 pm

The Special Juan wrote:
Fernando wrote:
The Special Juan wrote:Arsenal's Danny Welbeck folks!!  Laugh

Could be worse could be paying 300k for a fat scouser to run about and do not much apart from having a team wrapped round his finger Whistle .

Did I hit a nerve there?  Whistle  Wazza to score the winner at the Emirates this season boxing

Nah thought id just remind you that your mid-table side is whipped like a bitch by a fat scouser who isn't very good anymore for £1.2m a month Whistle

#BiggerThenYourClubAndIDon'tJustMeanWeight Whistle

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Post by Crimey Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:39 pm

owen10ozzy wrote:As for the Pirlo comment, scholes and Pirlo didn't play as deep lying midfielders in there hey day..they played as CM not DM! Even Xavi doesn't sit as deep as Wilshere is here! Wilshere may be choosing to do so but given how Hodgson has always set his teams out I doubt that's the case; always wants one person sat 8-10 yds in front of back four.

Olly - If that comment was at me; I don't Want Rooney playing, I'm not a fan of Welbeck..provides energy and little else as shown in first half and Sterling looks like a man who doesn't know his role .

I think Wilshere needs to get deeper, he's sitting too far forward in a spot with no space, if he drops a little deeper, he can take the ball from the defender and use his passing ability in all that space and time, spreading it out to the full backs and into Sterling letting him turn and run at the defence.

Doesn't know his role, despite playing it several times to great success with Liverpool? Sterling will get better if Wilshere drops deeper. 

ITV are now pointing it out too.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:40 pm

In Scholes' heyday he wasn't considered to be the best passer in the premier league, it was as he moved into a deep role that his full range of passing became evident. The same is true of Xavi and Pirlo who both play very deep, it's a role Pirlo has always done back to his heyday alongside Gattusso.

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Post by The Special Juan Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:42 pm

Fernando wrote:
The Special Juan wrote:
Fernando wrote:
The Special Juan wrote:Arsenal's Danny Welbeck folks!!  Laugh

Could be worse could be paying 300k for a fat scouser to run about and do not much apart from having a team wrapped round his finger Whistle .

Did I hit a nerve there?  Whistle  Wazza to score the winner at the Emirates this season boxing

Nah thought id just remind you that your mid-table side is whipped like a bitch by a fat scouser who isn't very good anymore for £1.2m a month Whistle

#BiggerThenYourClubAndIDon'tJustMeanWeight Whistle

Falcao says hi #bantz. One thing I've always admired about Wenger is that he's probably the only manager with principles these days. I love the idea of wage caps but it'll never happen.
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Post by NickisBHAFC Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:42 pm

This is qualifying game.

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Post by FIFA Diva Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:47 pm

NickisBHAFC wrote:This is qualifying game.

What's your point?
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Post by Fernando Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:47 pm

The Special Juan wrote:
Fernando wrote:
The Special Juan wrote:
Fernando wrote:
The Special Juan wrote:Arsenal's Danny Welbeck folks!!  Laugh

Could be worse could be paying 300k for a fat scouser to run about and do not much apart from having a team wrapped round his finger Whistle .

Did I hit a nerve there?  Whistle  Wazza to score the winner at the Emirates this season boxing

Nah thought id just remind you that your mid-table side is whipped like a bitch by a fat scouser who isn't very good anymore for £1.2m a month Whistle

#BiggerThenYourClubAndIDon'tJustMeanWeight Whistle

Falcao says hi #bantz.  One thing I've always admired about Wenger is that he's probably the only manager with principles these days.  I love the idea of wage caps but it'll never happen.

Yes because United have had goalscoring issues Whistle Just a signing to appease fans when you finish 7th again after conceding 60 plus goals and Rooney handing in another transfer request for a pay rise again Whistle

That's poor banter from a Scot. It's almost like your like a poor mans Alex Salmond angel

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Post by Crimey Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:52 pm

This "banter" is awful.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:53 pm

Ah Raheem
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Post by Crimey Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:53 pm

Amazing dummy from Sterling there to nearly cause an own goal....

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Post by owen10ozzy Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:54 pm

Crimes - Regards Sterling I meant in the sense he doesn't look comfortable as if he isn't sure what's being asked of him. That can be said of all 3 up top...none seem sure as to whose actually leading the line at times.

Wilshere getting into the game straight away from advanced position, nice to see.

In his heyday Pirlo played in front of Gattuso not alongside him; as he aged and lost mobility he played deeper and deeper. Scholars has always been known for his passing...saying he didn't show it until he started playing deep is ludicrous! He retired from England duty because he was never properly utilised in that center midfield role with free role to play as he pleased...the very thing which saw him rise to prominence at Utd in the late 90's.

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Post by Crimey Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:58 pm

Pirlo was the deep player in the diamond, Rui Costa and then later Kaka were the the top point of the diamond. When Pirlo played as the advanced midfielder he was roundly considering a poor player, it wasn't age that made him drop deeper but the realisation that he was better there.

Rui Costa/Kaka

Seedorf - - Gattuso
Pirlo

Delph does what Wilshere does in the advanced role, turn and run, better than Wilshere usually does. 

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Post by Crimey Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:59 pm

Also I'd say there are two views of Scholes, one of the majority of his career where he played as a more traditional central midfielder and often just off the forward, and his later career where he played as a deeper midfielder in the Xabi Alonso mould.

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Post by Fernando Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:59 pm

England 1-0 - Welbeck

#SuckItJuan

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Post by Steffan Mon 08 Sep 2014, 9:00 pm

GUTTING Crying or Very sad

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Post by Crimey Mon 08 Sep 2014, 9:00 pm

Really good pass by Sterling, good run by Rooney.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 08 Sep 2014, 9:01 pm

Wait what a incisive england goal, fantastic totally deserved
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Post by The Special Juan Mon 08 Sep 2014, 9:01 pm

Fernando wrote:
The Special Juan wrote:
Fernando wrote:
The Special Juan wrote:
Fernando wrote:
The Special Juan wrote:Arsenal's Danny Welbeck folks!!  Laugh

Could be worse could be paying 300k for a fat scouser to run about and do not much apart from having a team wrapped round his finger Whistle .

Did I hit a nerve there?  Whistle  Wazza to score the winner at the Emirates this season boxing

Nah thought id just remind you that your mid-table side is whipped like a bitch by a fat scouser who isn't very good anymore for £1.2m a month Whistle

#BiggerThenYourClubAndIDon'tJustMeanWeight Whistle

Falcao says hi #bantz.  One thing I've always admired about Wenger is that he's probably the only manager with principles these days.  I love the idea of wage caps but it'll never happen.

Yes because United have had goalscoring issues Whistle Just a signing to appease fans when you finish 7th again after conceding 60 plus goals and Rooney handing in another transfer request for a pay rise again Whistle

That's poor banter from a Scot. It's almost like your like a poor mans Alex Salmond angel

Excuse me, that's Prime Minister Salmond to you.
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Post by The Special Juan Mon 08 Sep 2014, 9:01 pm

Shinned it!!
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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon 08 Sep 2014, 9:03 pm

Scholes was a buccaneering midfielder who made late runs deep from midfield in his prime, you're simply wrong Owen that he and Pirlo were considered great passers in an advanced position. As Crimey points out Pirlo was the quintessential quarterback as is/was Xavi.

Nice goal by Welbeck there, when he puts in the back of the net his wastefulness can be overlooked to some extent.

I'm amazed nobody picked up Rodriguez, a quality left back with a really good delivery.

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