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The Official *England's Passage to Paris 2016* Thread

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Post by Duty281 Thu 28 Aug 2014, 12:21 pm

First topic message reminder :

Onwards, we go. Latest England squad has been named for the friendly against Norway, and the opening qualifier versus Switzerland.

Goalkeepers: Fraser Forster (Southampton), Ben Foster (West Bromwich Albion), Joe Hart (Manchester City)
Defenders: Leighton Baines (Everton), Gary Cahill (Chelsea), Calum Chambers (Arsenal), Phil Jagielka (Everton), Phil Jones (Manchester United), Danny Rose (Tottenham Hotspur), John Stones (Everton)
Midfielders: Jack Colback (Newcastle United), Fabian Delph (Aston Villa), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), James Milner (Manchester City), Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (Arsenal) Raheem Sterling (Liverpool), Andros Townsend (Tottenham Hotspur), Jack Wilshere (Arsenal)
Forwards: Rickie Lambert (Liverpool), Wayne Rooney (Manchester United), Daniel Sturridge (Liverpool), Danny Welbeck (Manchester United)

You know, such a squad does not fill me to the brim with optimism!

Best side we can muster out of that, assuming Roy takes a 4-2-3-1 shape, would probably be:

Hart, Stones, Jagielka, Cahill, Baines, Henderson, Wilshere, Sterling, Rooney, Oxlade, and Sturridge.


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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 08 Sep 2014, 10:48 pm

Hero wrote:The delusional hysteria for the next two years shall now begin.

Yes we just beat a semi decent side in Switzerland, the toughest game in the group. Yes we should walk over the other teams.

And then we'll get to the Euros and get embarrassed once more before a short inquest into what's wrong with the English game, nothing is done about it, we win one game v a semi decent team and the cycle repeats itself towards the Russia WC.
I'm not sure hysteria just yet, but its was a good performance and with promising play from a largely young team. People gonna be excited
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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon 08 Sep 2014, 10:48 pm

Context is all important Duty, we played well tonight but it was against a Swiss team not set up to defend for 120 minutes.

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Post by mystiroakey Mon 08 Sep 2014, 10:52 pm

Correct Hammersmith. Many teams can play that way when needed, I for one am glad we didn't do it in the WC. It may have got us out of the group though .. But its not moving forward..

But we still outclassed a team that the majority of people actually oddly thought was better. I really don't get England fans at all. Been banging my head against a brick wall a week, so didn't even bother posting on here about it.. But it was justified.

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Post by owen10ozzy Tue 09 Sep 2014, 2:28 am

My disappearance was purposely done to avoid having to listen to inevitable...brilliant performance from England...Onwards and upwards from here..blah blah blah.

Heard it all before; negative I may well be...in fact probably the antithesis to Duty, however my skepticism is better placed than most people's opinions purely because I'm proved right more often than not. As Hero states all victory does tonight is set the stage for hysteria to begin it's creeping journey, sucking the gullible lot into thinking it will all end in roses next year.

Onto tonight; an ok performance is as far as I would go. Again we struggled to break a team down & whilst they did pack the box a little it was a hardly a Chelsea champions league bus park...openings were there but just not found all that often. Thought the team struggled with the 'new' shape for the first half before finding their feet in the first 15 of the second. After the opener old habits crept in and we sat and allowed Switzerland opportunities to get back into, lest we forget Hart and Cahill making key contributions to the clean sheet we kept. The 2nd was clinical and impressive counter football, Lambert showing his worth in it. (Had Rooney been on I think the move would of broke down either by him attempting a dribble or just not being able to hold the ball up).

Wouldn't call the tactics or performance particularly bold, that Hodgson did is disconcerting.

As I said during game, not sure Wilshere fits the role being asked of him. Would rather Henderson there myself with Wilshere & another then forward of him. Done the Rooney debate to death tbh so not going into detail but much like Crimey I think England would be a better proposition without him.

Positives: Welbecks finishing, Delphs ability to retain possession and not waste much, Hart looking composed and in control of his defence.

Negatives: Sat back once ahead, lacked real creativity, Jones is a concern as was the lack of pace and width provided by the full backs.




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Post by Stella Tue 09 Sep 2014, 7:34 am

Owen. I have the feeling you're disappointed we won? It was a good performance, and great result.
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Post by mystiroakey Tue 09 Sep 2014, 7:38 am

Owen you don't ever seem to be right. To say you are over others on a public forum is puke inducing. I cannot believe the nonsense spouted over England after a friendly. The problem is people always love to hysterically jump up and down on the team and players. Man for man we are eagues above Switzerland.  But Switzerland are not a good team. There are not who we are aiming to become. Yes we are much better than them but we are no Spain or Germany. We have a long wat to go.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 09 Sep 2014, 7:42 am

Move would've broke down for the second goal with Rooney??? ERM sorry Owen did you miss the first one or something? Oh right don't mention that doesn't fit your little narrative...

Wouldn't call the tactics bold? Playing a sort of diamond/4-3-1-2 away from home? I'm sure you'd be the first to jump on Hodgson if we played 4-4-1-1 with Milner playing...

I do find it incredibly sad that people can't get a little optimistic after a result/encouraging performance like that. I really do
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Post by super_realist Tue 09 Sep 2014, 7:53 am

Given that you are only 18 Olly, you can be forgiven for not knowing that most England fans have seen this potential false dawn a hundred times before, only to be disappointed in the following match, subsequent tournament etc.

It's a win against a higher ranked team, that's all. Yes, it's an improvement on previous games, but everyone knows one swallow doesn't make a summer and at last a sense of perspective and realism is setting in.

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Post by Stella Tue 09 Sep 2014, 7:59 am

Who's getting carried away? We beat our main rivals in a Euro qualifier, why not be happy about it? Just like some rightly praising Scotland for playing well against Germany.
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Post by mystiroakey Tue 09 Sep 2014, 7:59 am

The only people that seem to have a go at others being glad about an england performance are also the ones overly negative about us as well . there isn't too much different between either mind set.

Allways look to the positives though. France is next door. I can get there in 90mins. If the whole country can all get back onside supporting England we can help them in there tournament big time. They do just need a confidence boost.
The market dictated that our country thought the swiss were better..

The swiss lack quality and had a very similar 2014 WC to our 2012 euro cup. The difference is we can play a more expansive game and have more quality. We are closer to Belgium in that regard . whether either team can go far with Spain, France and Germany at there pomp is a different matter.. But just understanding the level we are at and expecting results against teams with lesser players is Paramount.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Tue 09 Sep 2014, 8:02 am

mystiroakey wrote:Owen you don't ever seem to be right. To say you are over others on a public forum is puke inducing. I cannot believe the nonsense spouted over England after a friendly. The problem is people always love to hysterically jump up and down on the team and players. Man for man we are eagues above Switzerland.  But Switzerland are not a good team. There are not who we are aiming to become. Yes we are much better than them but we are no Spain or Germany. We have a long wat to go.

I don't think i've ever seen him be right about anything, he seems to consider his own opinion to be fact just because he's a writer for this site and not a very good one I might add.

It was a decent performance against a decent team, the defence stills worry me; too much last ditch defending but without a player in the Ferdinand mould it's always going to be the way.

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Post by mystiroakey Tue 09 Sep 2014, 8:09 am

super_realist wrote:Given that you are only 18 Olly, you can be forgiven for not knowing that most England fans have seen this potential false dawn a hundred times before, only to be disappointed in the following match, subsequent tournament etc.  

It's a win against a higher ranked team, that's all. Yes, it's an improvement on previous games, but everyone knows one swallow doesn't make a summer and at last a sense of perspective and realism is setting in.

I would have expected you to over rate Switzerland SR . I am not saying you did as I haven't read to many comments. But well it goes without saying you are a Scandinavian at heart.... How you been pal?

Crimey mentioned the major problem we have. We now have 9 very easy games to follow. We need to not just beat them but trounce them to show we are moving forward, and even then it tells us nothing in regads to how our players are going on to perform against the top European teams.

But there is a ray of light. There are only 3 teams on paper that seem a league or two above us. We have to expect and be confident as that feeds back to the players. But we also need Roy and the team to reproduce there 'paper' in France.. A long way to go. But no one is thinking we can win it..


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Post by freemo Tue 09 Sep 2014, 8:09 am

well it was a very good win, we must surely win every game from here...

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Post by mystiroakey Tue 09 Sep 2014, 8:14 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Owen you don't ever seem to be right. To say you are over others on a public forum is puke inducing. I cannot believe the nonsense spouted over England after a friendly. The problem is people always love to hysterically jump up and down on the team and players. Man for man we are eagues above Switzerland.  But Switzerland are not a good team. There are not who we are aiming to become. Yes we are much better than them but we are no Spain or Germany. We have a long wat to go.

I don't think i've ever seen him be right about anything, he seems to consider his own opinion to be fact just because he's a writer for this site and not a very good one I might add.

It was a decent performance against a decent team, the defence stills worry me; too much last ditch defending but without a player in the Ferdinand mould it's always going to be the way.

On a slightly seperate note I think Jones is quality and will become a closer version of Rio and cahill only has the ability to become a terry. I can't see jag getting much better . I also think Jones played well last night and has been uniteds best player this season. I don't really understand why he is getting so much bad feedback.


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Post by Guest Tue 09 Sep 2014, 8:23 am

Jones is special needs, let's not get carried away. We see his true ability for United, he got done positionally & for pace a few times & lucky not to get sent off. Pretty sure his erratic pass also gave them the chance where Hart made the save with his feet. He's also got this diving in mentality, whereby he tries to break an opponent I. Every tackle. Switzerlands striker force was woeful, against better, more clinical opposition, we would of been found out. Difference is, qualifying we don't get caught out, we get caught out in the major tournaments. Hence, no success since 66. It's pretty simple.

Sooner Stones is out of RB too, can't come quick enough. No attacking ability whatsoever, it's a necessity nowadays. Defence is the worry.

Good result. Still a so-so performance.


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Post by super_realist Tue 09 Sep 2014, 8:24 am

mystiroakey wrote:
super_realist wrote:Given that you are only 18 Olly, you can be forgiven for not knowing that most England fans have seen this potential false dawn a hundred times before, only to be disappointed in the following match, subsequent tournament etc.  

It's a win against a higher ranked team, that's all. Yes, it's an improvement on previous games, but everyone knows one swallow doesn't make a summer and at last a sense of perspective and realism is setting in.

I would have expected you to over rate Switzerland SR . I am not saying you did as I haven't read to many comments. But well it goes without saying you are a Scandinavian at heart.... How you been pal?

Crimey mentioned the major problem we have. We now have 9 very easy games to follow. We need to not just beat them but trounce them to show we are moving forward, and even then it tells us nothing in regads to how our players are going on to perform against the top European teams.

But there is a ray of light. There are only 3 teams on paper that seem a league or two above us. We have to expect and be confident as that feeds back to the players. But we also need Roy and the team to reproduce there 'paper' in France.. A long way to go. But no one is thinking we can win it..

What has Scandinavia got to do with Switzerland Oakey?

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Post by mystiroakey Tue 09 Sep 2014, 8:31 am

I should have said northern mainland Europe. In truth not that much...

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Post by mystiroakey Tue 09 Sep 2014, 8:36 am

Come on John . Thats overly harsh mate. But I hope LVG feels the same and gets rid.

Then we will see welbeck, Zaha( Wink ) and Jones shine away from United.


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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune Tue 09 Sep 2014, 10:09 am

Crimey wrote:Pirlo was the deep player in the diamond, Rui Costa and then later Kaka were the the top point of the diamond. When Pirlo played as the advanced midfielder he was roundly considering a poor player, it wasn't age that made him drop deeper but the realisation that he was better there.

Rui Costa/Kaka

Seedorf - - Gattuso
Pirlo

Delph does what Wilshere does in the advanced role, turn and run, better than Wilshere usually does. 

I used to love that AC Milan side, with Sheva and Inzaghi upfront. They were my team on Pro Evo.

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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune Tue 09 Sep 2014, 10:16 am

Hero wrote:The delusional hysteria for the next two years shall now begin.

Yes we just beat a semi decent side in Switzerland, the toughest game in the group. Yes we should walk over the other teams.

And then we'll get to the Euros and get embarrassed once more before a short inquest into what's wrong with the English game, nothing is done about it, we win one game v a semi decent team and the cycle repeats itself towards the Russia WC.

The Official *England's Passage to Paris 2016* Thread - Page 6 Deal

Hero talks sense shocker.

Only messin bud......good post. Hug


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Post by Mad for Chelsea Tue 09 Sep 2014, 10:25 am

My thoughts. It was a good performance from England. Considering where the respective two sides are at right now, maybe it was even a very good one. England played like a few on this board have been calling them to do for a while now. We don't have the players to play possession football like Spain and Barcelona did in their pomp, but what we do have is plenty of guys with pace, so why not use those assets more? England did that very well last night, and could quite easily have had a couple more goals. Then again Switzerland could also have scored one or two themselves. On the balance the scoreline felt about right.

Hart had a very good game, couple of excellent saves and good command of his box. Cahill was solid and dependable as ever, fine reading of the game for the goal-line clearance. Jones had a mixed bag, couple of errors which could have been costly, but also some good and timely interceptions. Man Utd's tinkering with his position has probably set him back a year or so in his development, but there's potential there IMO, would like to see him play consistently as a CB this year, as I'm still not quite sold on Jagielka: he's OK, but no more than that and can't see him improving much. Stones did OK but a little bit naive at times led to a couple of dangerous moments, and would have liked him to get forward more to support the attack. Baines grew into the game well, and looks at ease now at LB.

Onto the midfield, I'm not convinced that Wilshere is really made for the holding role at all. He'd be more influential further up the pitch, maybe in place of Delph. Delph's distribution was great, but he did lose the ball a few times in possession, not sure his ball control is all that hot. Still, an encourageing debut, and worth persevering with certainly. Good to see Roy take a bit of a punt. Henderson impressed me, may not have been his best performance, but he seems to read the game really well, was always in the right positions and lots of energy bursting forward. Some poor touches/passes but I see real potential there.

Onto the front three. Sterling showed how mad Roy was to push him into a peripheral role against Uruguay. OK not everything was great but he constantly looked England's most dangerous player on the ball, and two lovely passes set up England's two goals. England must build their team around this guy. Rooney put in a good shift after a poor start, and played his part in England's first goal (though not sure it deserved as many plaudits as say Mills gave him for it, was a fairly simple pass I thought). Thing about Rooney right now is nobody's quite sure what his best position is, Man Utd and England have both played him here, there and everywhere over the last few years, and while he'll always put in a good shift, I'm not quite sure where to go with him. Wellbeck looked lively all night, and got himself into great positions for his two goals, even if the first was a somewhat fortuitious finish.

Overall, England deserve about a 7.5/10 collectively. Plenty still to work on, but for the first time in a long while (bar maybe the Italy game, where I thought they did a lot of good things), there's reason to be cautiously optimistic.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 09 Sep 2014, 10:34 am

Yesterday was a fair indication of how England have advanced. In the last set of qualifiers, it was 4-4-1-1, often with Gerrard and Carrick in the middle, in the games on the road against Poland, Montenegro and Ukraine.

Last night, England went with a much more aggressive formation on the road versus Switzerland - a team better than the aforementioned three - and got a good result, which was well deserved.

I still do not think that the World Cup in Brazil was a fair reflection on where England are in the world game. They played one good game and one bad game and were on the way home; contrast that with Argentina who played a few poor games and still made it to the World Cup final.

There is plenty of work still to be done for England, who are in the ludricous situation of being 99% sure of their qualification status after just one out of the ten games, but there is plenty of time in which to do it. Hodgson must settle on a consistent formation, and from there a reasonably settled team for two years time.

The defence is still a concern, but perhaps England's attack can fire this team out of any trouble (Barkley, Carroll, Walcott, Sturridge all missing last night, as well).

Long way to go, but many reasons to be cheerful.

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Post by mystiroakey Tue 09 Sep 2014, 10:38 am

Lads in regards to the midfield. We have dyer who is on fire. Walcott and Barkley to come back from injury and the ox once he is fully back in shape. Its going to really be hard to work out who of those we are going to play...

I think Wilshire should be given the whole campaign in the deeper role- as it will take time . we are going to need that role set. The last thing I want is us to play a 5th defender like carrick.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 09 Sep 2014, 10:41 am

If England persist with the diamond, I would prefer Henderson in the holding role, Oxlade and Barkley in the middle, Sterling at ten, and Wazza and Sturridge up front.

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Post by mystiroakey Tue 09 Sep 2014, 10:46 am

I think hendo could be a very good back up to Wilshire there but he is limited in his abilities. When the others are back fit hendo will not be getting a spot over Barkley or Walcott so I wouldn't mind mixing him and Wilshire up in the holding role in these easy games coming so we have the option of both come tournament play. I also think we should stick with this shape.

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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune Tue 09 Sep 2014, 11:08 am

Henderson has progressed further then Wilshere now I reckon. I didn't think I would be saying that 2 years ago.

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Post by BamBam Tue 09 Sep 2014, 11:36 am

I'm not sure if Barkley has the discipline to play the right sided role in a diamond

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Post by dyrewolfe Tue 09 Sep 2014, 2:07 pm

Duty281 wrote:Yesterday was a fair indication of how England have advanced. In the last set of qualifiers, it was 4-4-1-1, often with Gerrard and Carrick in the middle, in the games on the road against Poland, Montenegro and Ukraine.

Last night, England went with a much more aggressive formation on the road versus Switzerland - a team better than the aforementioned three - and got a good result, which was well deserved.

I still do not think that the World Cup in Brazil was a fair reflection on where England are in the world game. They played one good game and one bad game and were on the way home; contrast that with Argentina who played a few poor games and still made it to the World Cup final.

There is plenty of work still to be done for England, who are in the ludricous situation of being 99% sure of their qualification status after just one out of the ten games, but there is plenty of time in which to do it. Hodgson must settle on a consistent formation, and from there a reasonably settled team for two years time.

The defence is still a concern, but perhaps England's attack can fire this team out of any trouble (Barkley, Carroll, Walcott, Sturridge all missing last night, as well).

Long way to go, but many reasons to be cheerful.


Pretty good summary there. We've got the toughest game of our qualifying schedule out of the way, got a win and played a decent game to boot.

England did look a bit laboured and even boring at times, passing around between defence and midfield and many of our attacks had the cutting edge of a lump of cheese, but on the bright side, we did score with two of our best attcking moves...even if the second one was in 2nd half stoppage time.

Quite liked Hodgson's assessment of our defensive capabilities - namely that they still need work. Switzerland managed to give us a few scares, keeping Hart on his toes and requring some defensive heroics from Cahill.

All that said, I'd have taken a draw before kick-off, so results-wise this exceeded my expectations - probably lots of other peoples' too.

Still room for improvement, so I'm not getting carried away just yet, but its good to see the squad seem to be developing an understanding, both with each other and the manager.
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Post by Hero Tue 09 Sep 2014, 2:27 pm

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Henderson has progressed further then Wilshere now I reckon. I didn't think I would be saying that 2 years ago.

I agree with you on this too, hell must have frozen over Wink

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Post by Mat Tue 09 Sep 2014, 2:41 pm

owen10ozzy wrote:My disappearance was purposely done to avoid having to listen to inevitable...brilliant performance from England...Onwards and upwards from here..blah blah blah.

Heard it all before; negative I may well be...in fact probably the antithesis to Duty, however my skepticism is better placed than most people's opinions purely because I'm proved right more often than not. As Hero states all victory does tonight is set the stage for hysteria to begin it's creeping journey, sucking the gullible lot into thinking it will all end in roses next year.

Onto tonight; an ok performance is as far as I would go. Again we struggled to break a team down & whilst they did pack the box a little it was a hardly a Chelsea champions league bus park...openings were there but just not found all that often. Thought the team struggled with the 'new' shape for the first half before finding their feet in the first 15 of the second. After the opener old habits crept in and we sat and allowed Switzerland opportunities to get back into, lest we forget Hart and Cahill making key contributions to the clean sheet we kept. The 2nd was clinical and impressive counter football, Lambert showing his worth in it. (Had Rooney been on I think the move would of broke down either by him attempting a dribble or just not being able to hold the ball up).

Wouldn't call the tactics or performance particularly bold, that Hodgson did is disconcerting.

As I said during game, not sure Wilshere fits the role being asked of him. Would rather Henderson there myself with Wilshere & another then forward of him. Done the Rooney debate to death tbh so not going into detail but much like Crimey I think England would be a better proposition without him.

Positives: Welbecks finishing, Delphs ability to retain possession and not waste much, Hart looking composed and in control of his defence.

Negatives: Sat back once ahead, lacked real creativity, Jones is a concern as was the lack of pace and width provided by the full backs.




Don't understand why you'd move Henderson from a role where he has excelled in the past season and a half for Liverpool, to accommodate Wilshere, who has bar the odd performance flattered to deceive for much of his International career and has been nowhere near as impressive as Henderson for his club side.


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Post by mystiroakey Tue 09 Sep 2014, 3:02 pm

If we can't expect a win against Switzerland something is seriously wrong.

I expected it and we got it. So I am not happy, just satisfied as we played at 70% and won with relative ease .

What are peoples reasonings behind thinking Switzerland were the better side?

What basis did they have?

There players are all average in quality. None bar two play in top teams(and is the pin up poster boy even a starter at Munich? ). There technical abilities are even worse than england. Even some teams that are worse than us have better technical ability.. Have they ever beaten us in your life times (last win 33 years ago )

If they didn't fall for there hype they might have got a draw at home. They may have been able to park the bus. They only semi parked it because they fell for the difference in FIFA rankings.

I would have been calling for Roy's head if we lost. Instead I am still indifferent and adequately positive. But I also was before the game.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Tue 09 Sep 2014, 3:08 pm

Is there anything more annoying than the smug gits who moan before England games about us being poor, then moan after games because now they have to watch the "hysteria". There has been so little hysteria over England and success in recent years.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Tue 09 Sep 2014, 3:23 pm

I think mysti people were citing the fact they were more convincing than England in qualifying for the World Cup, and progressed further than England once they got there, pushing Argentina very close indeed. Also they were at home, so there's certainly basis there to say Switzerland could have been considered slight favourites going into this one.

I felt it would be a quite even game, I was pleasantly surprised by England as I basically expected more of the same from Roy, i.e. solid shape but not much going forward, and a very cagey game. Instead we saw England play a positive gameplan, and deservedly win. So I'm happy. Not getting carried away, but cautiously optimistic for the future.

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Post by dummy_half Tue 09 Sep 2014, 3:34 pm

MIst
Past performance is no guarantee of future returns.

Yes, Switzerland are probably a bit too high in the FIFA rankings and England a bit low - in reallity two teeams at a similar level. Playing in Switzerland, it was reasonable to expect an England side low on form and confidence, in the middle of rebuilding to struggle (I'd have been not too unhappy with a draw in this game).

Actually was a pretty good performance - OK, needed Hart and Cahill to maintain the clean sheet, but that's part of their job. The main issues at the moment though are:
1 - lack of experience in defence, and a lack of quality going forward from fullbacks
2 - Getting the right player in the anchor midfield role. Needs to be a better defender than Wilshere and to have a reasonable passing game.
3 - Turning half-chances into real goal scoring opportunities. This has been the bug-bear since the end of the last quali campaign. We play some half decent football through midfield and get the ball to a player in a good advanced position but they fail to deliver a meaningful cross or shot, letting defenders get back and block. Better final ball and more movement from the central strikers seem to be the two issues.

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Post by mystiroakey Tue 09 Sep 2014, 11:04 pm

This may be an unpopular opinion , but I dont think the swiss out performed England (playing wise) in the World cup.

I think they got out of an easy group and then did a pulis to get where they got.

I think England played very positively and when you play against teams that include players like Suraez and you make a couple of mistakes you can lose whoever you are. I thought over both games v italy and uraguay we matched them in ability but just got stung due to them being slightly more clinical.

The swiss do not have that. As i said previously there campaign was similar to our euro 2012. There accepted what they are and maximised there chances by parking the bus.

I also think it was a seriously low quality world cup bar one team (germany) and it was littered with defensive errors. The heat contributed to that. England played a high pressing game and it cost us- We could have looked worse and got further.

I read what the swiss manager said after the game . He said they dominated and he also sent them out saying we can match england playing wise. It was there team and manager that bought in to the hype- not ours.

But from the majority of the Swiss fans comments on the game- they dont agree with there manager at all. Comments were littered with- "did he watch the same game"








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Post by Nakatomi Plaza Wed 10 Sep 2014, 6:53 am

I wasn't impressed by Switzerland at the World Cup either, thought they were dreadful against France, and beat two weak sides to get to the knock out stages.

To reply to Dummy half's points, I largely agree with them. I hope Hodgson plays an actual full back at right back rather than Stones if we are to persist with the diamond. Thought Stones was solid defensively, but he's not as comfortable going forward as Baines. If Clyne continues his good start to the season, i'd like to see him have a crack.

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Post by dummy_half Wed 10 Sep 2014, 8:04 am

mystiroakey wrote:...

I think England played very positively and when you play against teams that include players like Suraez and you make a couple of mistakes you can lose whoever you are. I thought over both games v italy and uraguay we matched them in ability but just got stung due to them being slightly more clinical.

...

That's one of the best assessments of England's World Cup performance I've seen. Played well against Italy, and on another day could have scored two or three, and while the performance against Uruguay was less good, their goals came from England errors. Bad results from the level of performance.

Good point about clinical play in attack - England over the last few months have struggled with the final ball, so haven't had as many clear-cut chances as they should have for the quality at times of their approach play (the Norway game being a case in point - only 2 shots on goal despite dominating possession in the first half particularly).

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Post by Crimey Wed 10 Sep 2014, 1:09 pm

No way will Henderson be dropped for Barkley or even Walcott. I think Wilshere would be dropped before Henderson now, Wilshere has actually regressed as a player over the last three years where as Henderson has become the most important player for Liverpool. Also I think it would be a waste putting Henderson in the deeper role as he does best with his infinite energy and reading of the game further up where as Wilshere offers very little higher up and may find himself out of the England and Arsenal teams if he can't develop his game to a deeper role in my opinion.

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Post by mystiroakey Wed 10 Sep 2014, 3:27 pm

translates to Henderson is a Liverpool player..


Wink

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Wed 10 Sep 2014, 3:38 pm

Henderson is pretty vital now. Wilshere isnt good enough to play further forward so should either learn his role or learn to love the bench

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Post by Nakatomi Plaza Wed 10 Sep 2014, 4:51 pm

I think Wilshere will only play long-term if England revert to a 4-2-3-1 formation. He won't be trusted to play for Arsenal as the deepest midfielder, and I'm not convinced the diamond formation will work against better sides on the ball than England.

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Post by mystiroakey Wed 10 Sep 2014, 4:56 pm

For me , we go about it two ways.. We try others out in that role or we stick with  Wilshire and get a back up in place as well. We have 14 odd games which are now all gloried friendlies or actual friendlies..so no pressure on winning games, most are guaranteed. Wilshire can learn the semi pirlo role.

I think we need to stop thinking about the defensive midfielder role so much. We don't need the best intercepter/defender in there . we need total footballers all over. What player can pass, can keep the ball once won and also play a killer dink ball when needed when fit.. Its Wilshire. The defenders need to come on leaps and bounds without as much help. But with Wilshire at the base we should get more attacking opportunities over giving the role to a Parker type or Carrick or milner slotted in there as a 5th defender.

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Post by Josiah Maiestas Wed 10 Sep 2014, 8:59 pm

We know now Welbeck shudn't be played wide or laying behind Rooney, he's more in the mould of a Higuain.

Surely when Walcott is back he won't walk into the team anymore. All he did for England was run the ball into bad areas and look like the Aston Martin in a 30 zone.

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Post by Josiah Maiestas Wed 10 Sep 2014, 9:00 pm

Nakatomi Plaza wrote:I think Wilshere will only play long-term if England revert to a 4-2-3-1 formation. He won't be trusted to play for Arsenal as the deepest midfielder, and I'm not convinced the diamond formation will work against better sides on the ball than England.
Long term? Even Roy can't be that stupid. Wouldn't even get in the Latvian team
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Post by Guest Wed 10 Sep 2014, 9:48 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:We know now Welbeck shudn't be played wide or laying behind Rooney, he's more in the mould of a Higuain.

Is it me, or has the entire footballing world gone mad? Welbeck in the mould of Gonzalo Higuain...... picard

Welbeck is a pretty average footballer, suddenly because of one game, Welbeck is now the best thing since sliced bread. Prior to Monday night, 95% of people on here with a brain, would of agreed, Welbeck is a poor finisher, usually couldn't hit a barn door & was only effective because of his engine, hence the original switch from striker to wide areas. The over-reaction to these two goals is quite frankly embarrassing stuff. The papers are running with the story, 'Have United made a huge mistake', Erm........No. They've got Rooney, RVP & Falcao, that's why. All you see now is Welbeck this, Welbeck that since Monday, has all video archive footage of Welbeck been destroyed overnight or have people's memories been brainwashed into forgetting the countless years of Welbeck's shocking & abysmal finishing for United? When Welbeck has scored 100+ league goals in under 200 league games, like Higuain did for Madrid, then I might start taking notice, not because of ninety minutes against a pretty woeful Switzerland side. The stat which shows Welbeck having a better goals per minute ratio, than Alan Shearer for England is just classic.

If Welbeck scores 10+ league goals for Arsenal this year, I will commit suicide. That's how confident I am  thumbsup

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Post by Guest Wed 10 Sep 2014, 10:01 pm

John wrote:
Josiah Maiestas wrote:We know now Welbeck shudn't be played wide or laying behind Rooney, he's more in the mould of a Higuain.

Is it me, or has the entire footballing world gone mad? Welbeck in the mould of Gonzalo Higuain...... picard

Welbeck is a pretty average footballer, suddenly because of one game, Welbeck is now the best thing since sliced bread. Prior to Monday night, 95% of people on here with a brain, would of agreed, Welbeck is a poor finisher, usually couldn't hit a barn door & was only effective because of his engine, hence the original switch from striker to wide areas. The over-reaction to these two goals is quite frankly embarrassing stuff. The papers are running with the story, 'Have United made a huge mistake', Erm........No. They've got Rooney, RVP & Falcao, that's why. All you see now is Welbeck this, Welbeck that since Monday, has all video archive footage of Welbeck been destroyed overnight or have people's memories been brainwashed into forgetting the countless years of Welbeck's shocking & abysmal finishing for United? When Welbeck has scored 100+ league goals in under 200 league games, like Higuain did for Madrid, then I might start taking notice, not because of ninety minutes against a pretty woeful Switzerland side. The stat which shows Welbeck having a better goals per minute ratio, than Alan Shearer for England is just classic.

If Welbeck scores 10+ league goals for Arsenal this year, I will commit suicide. That's how confident I am  thumbsup

I think you should be alive, come the end of May.....just. Laugh

I have to agree, has been quite laughable the reaction to Welbeck, his goals & his departure from Manchester. I think he's a decent player & with his pace is highly effective in playing counter-attacking football, just not sure how effective he is against top sides though. I also don't think United will miss him one-bit, LVG knows a great player from a decent one.

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Post by Duty281 Wed 10 Sep 2014, 10:13 pm

Be careful saying stuff like that, John.

At secondary school I once said to a Portsmouth-supporting mate of mine that I would drink my own p!ss on the school field, in plain view of everyone, if his team beat Manchester United and won the FA Cup.

This was in 2008, of course, and I bravely had to follow through with my promise after Arry's lads overcame Cardiff in an awful final.

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Post by Guest Wed 10 Sep 2014, 10:21 pm

It's a joke duty, relax son!

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Post by Duty281 Wed 10 Sep 2014, 10:52 pm

Did you know that today is World Suicide Prevention Day? Laugh

Makes the joke even better!

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Post by Steffan Wed 10 Sep 2014, 11:23 pm

Duty281 wrote:This was in 2008, of course, and I bravely had to follow through with my promise after Arry's lads overcame Cardiff in an awful final
I was at that final. Gutted we lost

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