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The Official *England's Passage to Paris 2016* Thread

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Post by Duty281 Thu 28 Aug 2014, 12:21 pm

First topic message reminder :

Onwards, we go. Latest England squad has been named for the friendly against Norway, and the opening qualifier versus Switzerland.

Goalkeepers: Fraser Forster (Southampton), Ben Foster (West Bromwich Albion), Joe Hart (Manchester City)
Defenders: Leighton Baines (Everton), Gary Cahill (Chelsea), Calum Chambers (Arsenal), Phil Jagielka (Everton), Phil Jones (Manchester United), Danny Rose (Tottenham Hotspur), John Stones (Everton)
Midfielders: Jack Colback (Newcastle United), Fabian Delph (Aston Villa), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), James Milner (Manchester City), Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (Arsenal) Raheem Sterling (Liverpool), Andros Townsend (Tottenham Hotspur), Jack Wilshere (Arsenal)
Forwards: Rickie Lambert (Liverpool), Wayne Rooney (Manchester United), Daniel Sturridge (Liverpool), Danny Welbeck (Manchester United)

You know, such a squad does not fill me to the brim with optimism!

Best side we can muster out of that, assuming Roy takes a 4-2-3-1 shape, would probably be:

Hart, Stones, Jagielka, Cahill, Baines, Henderson, Wilshere, Sterling, Rooney, Oxlade, and Sturridge.


Last edited by Duty281 on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by FootballLight Sat 28 Mar 2015, 5:27 pm

I do think Delph is a good player and don't get me wrong in his first couple of games he has played in for England but I wouldn't say nobody else in that England side can't do his job. Henderson has really good energy levels and he is the leader and the engine in the England team and Michael Carrick is a top passer of the ball which Delph isn't as good at. Delph is obviously a good player, but I think we have better options currently but he wouldn't be a bad back-up player. It the same with Milner and Wilshere who I think would make a good pairing.

I believe Delph has settled in well to his task. Not doing a lot wrong so far and at least he is positive and is trying to do things right. He is at the peak of his career and I think playing with better players at a higher level will do his career good. Its all about that test of can he perform and offer something to the team on a consistent basis now for the team, squad and country.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Sat 28 Mar 2015, 5:31 pm

Henderson definitely isnt the leader of the England team

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Post by FootballLight Sat 28 Mar 2015, 5:32 pm

In the midfield I meant....

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Post by Crimey Sat 28 Mar 2015, 5:35 pm

Yeah I think you can see that Henderson is usually the one to take control of the midfield and direct it forward.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Sat 28 Mar 2015, 5:37 pm

Usually the one? Hes played a handful of games without Gerrard. He barely has control of his own desire to thrust forward in midfield

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Post by Crimey Sat 28 Mar 2015, 5:42 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Usually the one? Hes played a handful of games without Gerrard. He barely has control of his own desire to thrust forward in midfield

And in those handful of games, he's taken control of the midfield. Not hard to do considering most of the time he's shared it with Delph and Wilshere, but I don't think it's ridiculous to suggest that when looking at the England midfield Henderson is the one who shows any signs of leadership.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sat 28 Mar 2015, 5:52 pm

I don't see it from any of them, too many are a bit keen to suggest Henderson is this and that because of the Gerrard comparisons.

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Post by FootballLight Sat 28 Mar 2015, 6:04 pm

Crimey wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Usually the one? Hes played a handful of games without Gerrard. He barely has control of his own desire to thrust forward in midfield

And in those handful of games, he's taken control of the midfield. Not hard to do considering most of the time he's shared it with Delph and Wilshere, but I don't think it's ridiculous to suggest that when looking at the England midfield Henderson is the one who shows any signs of leadership.

In those handful of games? Rodgers prefers Henderson over Gerrard, a we can see why Gerrard has been sat on the bench in crucial games whereas Henderson has been starting these games i.e. Swansea, Man United. Hence that's why Henderson has played in 29 Premier League games this season and 44 games overall and Gerrard has featured in 24 league games and 35 overall. Also, Henderson has clocked up almost 4,000 minutes of football this season (3,839 minutes to be precise) and Gerrard just over 2,500 minutes of football this season (again, 2,730 minutes to be precise). So this proves that not only has Henderson featured much more for Liverpool this season, we can prove that Henderson has played without Gerrard for 1,109 minutes this season, that equates to 12.3 matches in the overall season. Some pretty significant stats there mate. Do the math.

Also, Henderson has been captain for these 12.3 matches without Gerrard so obviously showing some leadership and since Gerrard has fallen out of favour since the Christmas period(ish), Henderson will have been captain for most of the games since then and this is where Liverpool have hit their purple patch since the Christmas period. So, to say that Henderson hasn't had the leadership skills to guide Liverpool back in contention for a top 4 place is extremely harsh. In these games, Henderson has comfortably taken control of these games because not only has he been the engine since the Christmas period he has contributed to goals and assists in this period and has also driven other players to perform as well as him in recent weeks e.g. Coutinho and Allen who have really admired his leadership and quality on the pitch and I think Henderson has played a factor into their top drawer midfield performances recently.

I think Henderson will be the next England captain when Rooney retires or anyone else because he has that quality and that leadership at quite a young age. Its a huge understatement to say its no ridiculous, its by far and away more ridiculous to think that Henderson isn't the leader out of the midfield trio or quartet or five whatever you want to call it from whatever Hodgson plays. No matter who you are playing with, it is hard to lead them. If logic is defiant here, would it not be harder to lead an inexperienced England midfielder in Delph as well as an equally inexperienced and young midfielder Wilshere who has been troubled. Is it not harder to motivate them and make sure they perform to the top level England want to play at because they don't know the standard as well. I think most would agree it is harder to lead and motivate 2 inexperienced, young midfielders than experienced, level-headed players.

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Post by FootballLight Sat 28 Mar 2015, 6:05 pm

Nobody is comparing Henderson to Gerrard, we all know that Gerrard at Henderson's age was in a completely different league but what we are saying is that Henderson possesses similar qualities that Gerrard has in terms of his influence. The only comparison is that Henderson has been more influential on the pitch than what Gerrard has been this season.

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Post by super_realist Sat 28 Mar 2015, 6:16 pm

John wrote:only makes things worse when you read this ''England's performances since the 2014 World Cup will have "frightened" other nations'', says captain Wayne Rooney. picard


Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

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Post by NickisBHAFC Sat 28 Mar 2015, 10:08 pm

Tbf he has a point. How badly have the other nations done?

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Post by Josiah Maiestas Sun 29 Mar 2015, 2:27 am

Even against little Lithuania we needed luck for more than 1 goal, lucky that they were pathetic organising a defence that even giraffe legs Welbeck could get through them!

Performances should matter more than results otherwise we will just get swatted aside again by any half decent team.

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 29 Mar 2015, 10:06 am

Luck? What are you banging on about,

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Post by FootballLight Sun 29 Mar 2015, 11:01 am

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Even against little Lithuania we needed luck for more than 1 goal, lucky that they were pathetic organising a defence that even giraffe legs Welbeck could get through them!

Performances should matter more than results otherwise we will just get swatted aside again by any half decent team.


So your saying its lucky that one of the worst countries in the world were pathetically organised? Laugh What are you talking about. That's called poor defending from a poor team, not luck.

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Post by FootballLight Sun 29 Mar 2015, 11:06 am

Something I found quite disgraceful was how Conte received death threats from Italy fans due to an injury suffered by Marchisio. I don't think there is an understandable view for anyone to say that is acceptable. If Conte puts them a very high intensity training regime, then yes injuries will occur but players will get used to it over time and they will adapt to it. But he got injured during training in the warm up so how can anyone give Conte death threats for that? Marchisio is a top class player indeed, but its not the end of the world is it and its certainly not acceptable to give out death threats.

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Post by dyrewolfe Sun 29 Mar 2015, 11:37 am

FootballLight wrote:
Josiah Maiestas wrote:Even against little Lithuania we needed luck for more than 1 goal, lucky that they were pathetic organising a defence that even giraffe legs Welbeck could get through them!

Performances should matter more than results otherwise we will just get swatted aside again by any half decent team.


So your saying its lucky that one of the worst countries in the world were pathetically organised? Laugh What are you talking about. That's called poor defending from a poor team, not luck.

Hate to say it but Josiah does have a point. Who have we played of any note since Brazil 2014?

Plus we often do well qualifying.

First serious tournament match we have will be the real acid test of whether England have progressed at all, or whether we're still just flat track bullies against the minnows, but fall to pieces against decent sides.
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Post by mystiroakey Sun 29 Mar 2015, 11:56 am

He has no point. We all know the acid test. We all know the problems in tournaments. We have to wait 15 months untill we know.....

 it wasn't a lucky win. End of.

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Post by Crimey Sun 29 Mar 2015, 3:01 pm

If you can't play nice, stop posting. If you don't like a particular poster, make use of the foe button.

That goes for you as well Dolph. Admin > Moderator Wink

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Sun 29 Mar 2015, 3:15 pm

Cough* Twist *Cough Wink

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Post by FootballLight Sun 29 Mar 2015, 3:58 pm

Must have taken a while to cut all of that out.

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Post by Liam Sun 29 Mar 2015, 5:58 pm

Any England fans worried/annoyed that it seems in Hodgson's view, it's Kane or Rooney, not both in the same team? Said to play Kane he'd have to switch formations which he didn't want to do. But for me, this is why England won't go far under Hodgson. Too conservative. You have a 21 year old who has scored 30 goals this season, why wouldn't you want him alongside Rooney?

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Post by FootballLight Sun 29 Mar 2015, 6:03 pm

A lot of people said he should have played Kane. Who knows why he didn't but he's got off to the best possible start. To be fair to you sir, it is always more wise to play your best team possible and Kane would certainly be in there going off this season no question. You always build around your best players. Although, 4-4-2 isn't as flexible for the modern game now. The only way I can ever see 4-4-2 working is if you have 2 holding midfielders or 1 holding midfielder and an engine. I don't see why that can't work though for England. Not only does it give the 2 opposition defenders something to think about, but as long as Hodgson can get a good defensive structure then England shouldn't have too many problems. Although a major problem would be getting overrun in the midfield so you are asking a lot of Rooney to come back and defend in Am also. But, that's all about getting the shape correct.

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Post by hampo17 Sun 29 Mar 2015, 6:03 pm

Crimey wrote:If you can't play nice, stop posting. If you don't like a particular poster, make use of the foe button.

That goes for you as well Dolph. Admin > Moderator Wink

Having just read all that garbage, I'll happily swing my ban hammer if anyone involved steps out of line again Very Happy

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Post by hampo17 Sun 29 Mar 2015, 6:04 pm

Speaking to a few friends, they're of the opinion that you stick with the team that has performed well in the qualifiers so far. Personally I disagree, you play your best eleven. Leave Welbeck out for Kane in my opinion.

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Post by FootballLight Sun 29 Mar 2015, 6:05 pm

I don't want to stir anything up, I do understand that turned out to be another petty argument, but is it not a little harsh to ban members just for offering an opinion. That was in fairness quite an interesting debate at first.

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Post by FootballLight Sun 29 Mar 2015, 6:06 pm

hampo171 wrote:Speaking to a few friends, they're of the opinion that you stick with the team that has performed well in the qualifiers so far. Personally I disagree, you play your best eleven. Leave Welbeck out for Kane in my opinion.

If your talking about your best 11, Welbeck would most certainly be there. 4-3-3? Could be a good answer to any problems. Kane wouldn't have been there last season would he? No. So why is it fair to leave England's most consistent performer out so far?

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Post by hampo17 Sun 29 Mar 2015, 6:08 pm

FootballLight wrote:I don't want to stir anything up, I do understand that turned out to be another petty argument, but is it not a little harsh to ban members just for offering an opinion. That was in fairness quite an interesting debate at first.

Didn't end up with people just offering opinions though did it?

As for your other point, Roy won't change his formation, so if you want Kane in there either Rooney or Welbeck miss out.

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Post by super_realist Sun 29 Mar 2015, 6:43 pm

I don't think you can say anything other than 4-0 is anything but a competent and professional win.
You wouldn't expect England to struggle against a team like Lithuania, and they didn't.

They didn't require luck and the result was never in doubt.

Qualification can be but is not often an issue and certainly wasn't expected to be given the poor standard of their group for this campaign, so trying to read too much into this win is a fruitless exercise.

4-0 is a perfectly acceptable score, too many goals to be a poor performance, but nothing amazing to make other countries sit up and take notice. Simple as that.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Sun 29 Mar 2015, 6:49 pm

hampo171 wrote:
Crimey wrote:If you can't play nice, stop posting. If you don't like a particular poster, make use of the foe button.

That goes for you as well Dolph. Admin > Moderator Wink

Having just read all that garbage, I'll happily swing my ban hammer if anyone involved steps out of line again Very Happy

Come at me bro Wink

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sun 29 Mar 2015, 6:51 pm

I stand by everything single word I said.

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Post by hampo17 Sun 29 Mar 2015, 6:51 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
hampo171 wrote:
Crimey wrote:If you can't play nice, stop posting. If you don't like a particular poster, make use of the foe button.

That goes for you as well Dolph. Admin > Moderator Wink

Having just read all that garbage, I'll happily swing my ban hammer if anyone involved steps out of line again Very Happy

Come at me bro Wink

You can't handle the admins ban hammer, it's why mods only get feather dusters Wink

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Post by Steffan Sun 29 Mar 2015, 6:52 pm

England look a good side. Us Welsh are taking note of this. You would make stiff opposition for us

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Post by FootballLight Sun 29 Mar 2015, 7:15 pm

Northern Ireland are making quite a good go at qualifying. Yikes

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Post by mystiroakey Sun 29 Mar 2015, 7:25 pm

We could have 4 UK teams in.

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Post by FootballLight Sun 29 Mar 2015, 7:27 pm

And Rep. of Ireland. But their too special to be considered apart of the UK now. What a load of rubbish that once was.

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Post by Liam Sun 29 Mar 2015, 7:31 pm

Would be great to see a few of the home nations there for a change.

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Post by Stella Sun 29 Mar 2015, 7:36 pm

How many teams are in Euro 2016?
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Post by Dave. Sun 29 Mar 2015, 7:36 pm

It is very much on now. Surely at least a playoff.

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Post by super_realist Sun 29 Mar 2015, 7:38 pm

Liam wrote:Would be great to see a few of the home nations there for a change.

Then we can all fail together Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

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Post by FootballLight Sun 29 Mar 2015, 7:42 pm

32 teams and 4 of them could be from the UK alone. So 1/8 of the Euro's could be made up of UK teams. Laugh Unbelievable.

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Post by Dave. Sun 29 Mar 2015, 7:43 pm

Actually 24. It would be great if the four home nations made it and ended up in the same group. Us being the Home International Champions and all that.

-------

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